male feminism ??!

[lily of valley]

hey!

do u know what male feminism is?!
there isnt enough information on the net!
i need yr help!

thanx!

[Bakiryu]

:Lol: You're kidding, right? The only way a Male can be a feminists is if he's gay and then it's pretty unlikely.

[Pensive]

You don't mean male-chauvinism? Do you? The males who show prejudice again women?

[SleepyWitch]

:Lol: You're kidding, right? The only way a Male can be a feminists is if he's gay and then it's pretty unlikely.

ah, I don't think you're right there Baki.
too tired to explain it right now.. there's a thread about feminism here (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24213)

[Orual]

I seem to remember something about men who were in favor of equal education for women from my European history class, but I don't recall any specifics. Is that the sort of thing you're thinking about?

[lily of valley]

Hey guys!
Well, I don’t agree with u Bakiryu that the only way a male can be a feminist is if he is gay?!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh! Explain this please for me?
Can’t there be a male feminist who calls for the rights of women and of men without being a gay?!!!!!
PENSIVE, I do not mean male-chauvinism. If it had been so, I would have not called it feminism!
I agree with u Sleepywitch! I will read about the thread! Thanx!
Orual, I am not only after men who call for equal education for women, but I am looking for men who call for their rights as well.
I too do not have a good idea about this male feminism. My question is: like women, aren’t men sometimes subjugated?! Aren’t they culturalized or socialized?! Aren’t they objectified?! Aren’t they castrated by society? Do these questions lead me to male feminism or to individualist feminism??
I still need yr help!
Thanx!

[Mortis Anarchy]

Male feminism...if they are calling for their own rights, wouldn't it be called something else. 'cause everytime I see feminism I think womens rights etc. and when you combine it with male, I think they are trying to help women get their rights etc. OR I think of men who are aware of their female side...and not in a gay way either.

And I agree, male feminism doesn't have to mean homosexuality.

[Pensive]

Male feminism...if they are calling for their own rights, wouldn't it be called something else. 'cause everytime I see feminism I think womens rights etc. and when you combine it with male, I think they are trying to help women get their rights etc. OR I think of men who are aware of their female side...and not in a gay way either.

And I agree, male feminism doesn't have to mean homosexuality.

Exactly the same the words 'male feminism' seem to be suggesting me. But what she means seems to be different. I wonder if this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_movement) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_rights) would help, lily of valley? It's about men's movement and men's rights.

[SleepyWitch]

i think men's rights and women's rights are two sides of the same coin really...
even if men are not subjugated as a group, it doesn't mean their lives are all happy-clappy...
just think about traditional, patriarch male gender roles... the man is expected to be strong, unemotional, tough, protect his wife and children, be the breadwinner in the family, be assertive etc... he's responsible for the well-being of another adult person (wife) who could just as well look after herself.
now the point is, in this model the man is expected to be ALWAYS tough, unemotional etc... so his wife left him and he wants to cry? bah, men don't cry... another guy gets promoted when he deserves the job? just grin and bear it. his child dies in an accident? no time to grieve, gotta work...

personally, i think the ABILITY to be tough is a good thing, but when you are expected to be tough no matter what, then it's no fun at all.

now how does a sweet little baby boy get to be that Mr Tough Guy?
think of all the psychological violence society/other men/ he himself/even his mama and papa do to him so that he becomes that emotionally deficient creature he's expected to be?

so what if he doesn't manage to feed his wife because he gets sacked? other men and women will tell him it's all his fault and he's a loser seeing as he can't even earn enough money to feed the wife and brats.
what if he gets dumped? others will tell him that's because he's schlong isn't big enough or he's ugly or whatever...

what if he wants to be a kindergarten teacher or nurse? that's because he's not tough enough to do man's work, of course....

now if you grant that women can look after themselves and don't need a man to feed and protect them and you enable women to look after themselves, men's role changes as a consequence.
Mr Tough Guy doesn't need to be Mr Toughguy.. he's free to explore and develop different aspects of his personality and learn different behavioural patterns of behaviour.---> he becomes a more complex human being. when there's a need to be assertive (e.g. when discussing ideas with colleagues, telling off his subordinates etc) he can be assertive, but when his kid dies in an accident he's allowed to cry, when his wife left him, it's not because his schlong is too small but because they are both human beings and human beings have complex conflicts and sometimes these conflicts become irresolvable.

so men can profit from feminism because the gender roles imposed on them/ embraced by them change as women's role changes.

but I don't know any famous "male feminist".. like a male feminist author or something... (I'm sure there is one but I've never heard of any)

[Pensive]

Yes, male-rights and female-rights both come in human-rights. Different sides of the same coin, I agree.

[Bakiryu]

I never understood why women were treated as being lesser to men, we're all the same I can't see no different except body shape and organs.Male. Female. It's the same thing!

[Mrs. Dalloway]

Well, this word doesn't exist... Feminism is feminism and there isn't a female-feminism nor male-feminism! There are men who are feminist and there are also organizations.

[Redzeppelin]

I never understood why women were treated as being lesser to men, we're all the same I can't see no different except body shape and organs.Male. Female. It's the same thing!


I'll have to strongly disagree with you here. This kind of thinking (prevalent during the late 60s through the 70s that gender was really only a social construct) has created havoc in our relationships. It's more than genitals and curves - we are fundamentally different at all levels - emotionally, relationally, pschologically. That doesn't justify the unequal treatment of women, but I think we're struggling right now to bring the pendulum back to the middle somewhere where we realize that both genders are very different from each other; each has strengths and weaknesses that the other does not - that's why we complement each other well.

[Derringer]

I'll have to strongly disagree with you here. This kind of thinking (prevalent during the late 60s through the 70s that gender was really only a social construct) has created havoc in our relationships. It's more than genitals and curves - we are fundamentally different at all levels - emotionally, relationally, pschologically. That doesn't justify the unequal treatment of women, but I think we're struggling right now to bring the pendulum back to the middle somewhere where we realize that both genders are very different from each other; each has strengths and weaknesses that the other does not - that's why we complement each other well.

Gender is a social creation.

[lily of valley]

Hello everybody!!

PENSIVE I agree with u! “Yes, male-rights and female-rights both come in human-rights. Different sides of the same coin, I agree.”
THANX, Sleepywitch! In other words, we are all role-playing! This makes me feel very bad! One needs to exert a great effort to be restore one`s self in this quagmire of culturalization!!
Of course I want u to know that these terms “male feminism” and “female feminism” are not my invention. They do exist!

“Male feminism has existed since the early days of the women’s movement. As women began bringing to light the oppressiveness of our patriarchal system, some men realized that the system was oppressive to males as well. […].The few men who recognized this at the time embraced feminist theory and began to advocate the feminist goal of ousting the patriarchy. These men became the first “male feminists. It may at first seem contradictory to make a distinction between female and male sides of a movement that seeks to eliminate gender discrimination. However, there is a simple reason for this distinction. Steven Schacht and Doris Ewing point out that “one is not born a feminist, but rather becomes one; ... becoming and being a feminist involves a transformative process that is experientially grounded” (130). Put more simply, most women are not brought up as feminists, and only become feminists after some event or discovery makes their oppression clear. The same is true for men who turn to feminism, with one crucial difference: men are on the receiving end of the patriarchy. Thus the oppression of men is subtler and less damaging than that of women, and so is less frequently experienced and recognized. As a result, men rarely, if ever, become feminists
as a result of their own experiences of oppression. There are alternate paths to feminism; rather than recognizing their own oppression men might experience the oppression of the women around them.”

The above extract is taken from an article by Lucas Baker entitled Feminism and Male Response.

[Mortis Anarchy]

I get what everyone is saying...but I just don't like/get the words Male Feminism. It doesn't sound right.:p I'm just being silly, but I dunno. I'll shut up now.:) :thumbs_up