The Party

[ShakeYourSpear]

While reading 1984, and especially during Part 3, I found myself believing that this sort of governmental ruling would be good for society. It would make everyone nearly identical. "All is one" would become true. Everyone would have the same beliefs, and eveyone would essentially be the same person.

Many of the ideas presented in the novel seemed to make logical sense, and once I realized what I thought about it, I was scared.

I realised that this sort of power would not be impossible to achieve, nor improbably to eventually happen.

As I read the final part of the novel, I was caught between thinking this type of society as being beneficial, and being the worst thing possible.

I am wondering if anyone else had any of these thoughts, or similar thoughts as mine. If so, do you still believe those thoughts, or has your opinion changed?

Thank you

[The Atheist]

Well, I first read 1984 over 30 years ago and I most recently re-read it early this year.

I find the idea the same as I always have - the most repugnant thing I could think of. You're certainly correct that a case could be made for Party-like rule through logic and that it may happen, or even be happening now - it all makes perfect sense as a means of controlling power and it is certainly possible, but it would be a horrific end to humanity, in my opinion.

[rabid reader]

While reading 1984, and especially during Part 3, I found myself believing that this sort of governmental ruling would be good for society. It would make everyone nearly identical. "All is one" would become true. Everyone would have the same beliefs, and eveyone would essentially be the same person.

Many of the ideas presented in the novel seemed to make logical sense, and once I realized what I thought about it, I was scared.

I realised that this sort of power would not be impossible to achieve, nor improbably to eventually happen.

As I read the final part of the novel, I was caught between thinking this type of society as being beneficial, and being the worst thing possible.

I am wondering if anyone else had any of these thoughts, or similar thoughts as mine. If so, do you still believe those thoughts, or has your opinion changed?

Thank you


I have pondered this novel even further lately as I re-read it for a third time, and I am beginning to think that the "Party" or big brother, or any dictator, is not a possibility. Too much control is necessary for it. The closets thing we have ever experienced to it, was the power of the Church after the fall of Rome and till the 1700s. They were able to educate and brainwash the populace into blindly following them as they controlled every aspect of their lives. This will never be accomplished again, merely because of technology. The infrastructure that a state must develop to prevent "de-programing" needs such sustainability one would have to have the power to control even nature. One thunderstorm, one termite infestation, one computer virus, and this sheltered soceity you have developed is all of a sudden illuminated and subsequently ruined. The amount of control needed would be that to rival a divine deity, and I really doubt that would be possible.

[The Atheist]

The closets thing we have ever experienced to it, was the power of the Church after the fall of Rome and till the 1700s. They were able to educate and brainwash the populace into blindly following them as they controlled every aspect of their lives. This will never be accomplished again, merely because of technology. The infrastructure that a state must develop to prevent "de-programing" needs such sustainability one would have to have the power to control even nature. One thunderstorm, one termite infestation, one computer virus, and this sheltered soceity you have developed is all of a sudden illuminated and subsequently ruined. The amount of control needed would be that to rival a divine deity, and I really doubt that would be possible.

Hard to get into this and stay away from current politics, but I suggest you check out CCTV installation in Britain as a first step.

You have far more faith in humankind than I do! ;)

The one thing, funnily enough, which may well guarantee that 1984 never becomes a reality is this internet thingy. Very hard to censor it.

[JAMMERXT]

Hi, Im new to this site because I was looking for somewhere to discuss the possibility that the world exists only in my own mind. That led me to 1984 and to search google for a blog or something like that. Then I found this and thought that I must say something. First of all, the society suggested in this book is entirely impossible. I do not want to spend all my time writing down all the evidence to back this up, so you will just have to rely on my word. In contrast, I would rather argue with shake your spear and the atheist here. Oh, by the way, the correct term to use would be humanity. You said that he has more faith in humankind than you when you should have said humanity, as this is what 1984 discusses. (that was just an attempt to get you a little upset so that you start argueing with me, so don't take it personally. On the other hand, I like for my arguments to have a little spice in them so do take it personally if you want to please me. Oh how I enjoy intellectual jokes) Also, the logic in 1984 is flawed. Start argueing if you want to know why.

[Granny5]

Hard to get into this and stay away from current politics, but I suggest you check out CCTV installation in Britain as a first step.

You have far more faith in humankind than I do! ;)

The one thing, funnily enough, which may well guarantee that 1984 never becomes a reality is this internet thingy. Very hard to censor it.

I think fear would be a factor in causing the kind of socity that would allow something like 1984 happen. But, as you said, this internet thingy is a tremendous tool against something like that. Knowledge is also. Too many people in the world would know how to get around any government control of any one thing. I think that maybe 50-70 years ago it would have been possible. Look at Germany during Hilter's time. People would do whatever they could out of fear of the Party's power over life and death. Otherwise, why would good people let such horrible things happen?

[The Atheist]

Hi, Im new to this site because I was looking for somewhere to discuss the possibility that the world exists only in my own mind. That led me to 1984 and to search google for a blog or something like that. Then I found this and thought that I must say something. First of all, the society suggested in this book is entirely impossible. I do not want to spend all my time writing down all the evidence to back this up, so you will just have to rely on my word. In contrast, I would rather argue with shake your spear and the atheist here. Oh, by the way, the correct term to use would be humanity. You said that he has more faith in humankind than you when you should have said humanity, as this is what 1984 discusses. (that was just an attempt to get you a little upset so that you start argueing with me, so don't take it personally. On the other hand, I like for my arguments to have a little spice in them so do take it personally if you want to please me. Oh how I enjoy intellectual jokes) Also, the logic in 1984 is flawed. Start argueing if you want to know why.

Hell, I'll play!

Funny you mention the word "humankind", because I did use it correctly in the post you mentioned, but I did use "humanity" when I should have used "humankind" in my first post. :D

C'est la vie.

Anyway - reality. I'm really hoping that you're joking about wondering about reality, although I have seen a rash of this type of question lately. Must be a phase of the moon thing, although if you have a better idea, I'd be keen to know about it.

Seriously, trust yourself - reality is actually real. The Matrix was just a movie. Keanu Reeves exists, but his character in the movie does not.

As to 1984 being an impossible result, I tend to disagree. During a state of perpetual war, anything is possible.


I think fear would be a factor in causing the kind of socity that would allow something like 1984 happen. But, as you said, this internet thingy is a tremendous tool against something like that. Knowledge is also. Too many people in the world would know how to get around any government control of any one thing. I think that maybe 50-70 years ago it would have been possible. Look at Germany during Hilter's time. People would do whatever they could out of fear of the Party's power over life and death. Otherwise, why would good people let such horrible things happen?

Gawrsh.

There's so much I could say about that and why even a worldwide community like this one may not even be enough of a buffer, but I know I'm going to get hit for politics if I do! :)

I mentioned the CCTV as one example where huge changes are being made with little or no opposition, which is part of the "fear factor" you mentioned. If you want to explore it further, PM me by all means.

[JAMMERXT]

When I said i wanted to discuss the possiblility that the world exists only in my own mind I was meaning to say that I was hoping to discuss if there was a possible way to disprove that the world exists in my mind logically

[Granny5]

Hell, I'll play!

Funny you mention the word "humankind", because I did use it correctly in the post you mentioned, but I did use "humanity" when I should have used "humankind" in my first post. :D

C'est la vie.

Anyway - reality. I'm really hoping that you're joking about wondering about reality, although I have seen a rash of this type of question lately. Must be a phase of the moon thing, although if you have a better idea, I'd be keen to know about it.

Seriously, trust yourself - reality is actually real. The Matrix was just a movie. Keanu Reeves exists, but his character in the movie does not.

As to 1984 being an impossible result, I tend to disagree. During a state of perpetual war, anything is possible.



Gawrsh.

There's so much I could say about that and why even a worldwide community like this one may not even be enough of a buffer, but I know I'm going to get hit for politics if I do! :)

I mentioned the CCTV as one example where huge changes are being made with little or no opposition, which is part of the "fear factor" you mentioned. If you want to explore it further, PM me by all means.

I know you're probably right in that it could happen in this day and age but I sure hope our society would prevent it someway. In the 60's and 70's there were so many war protesters, now you never see or hear about them. Are they not out there or does someone keep us from seeing them? Everyone knows that there are protests against the war, but it's all so unseen and that scares me. Also, news organizations are owned by so few now that we have no way of knowing what is censured and what is not. Now, I don't want to sound as dumb as I am, but what is CCTV?

[JAMMERXT]

The reason I say that this society is impossible is that it is not true that thought is impossible without words for thought. And that is what most of the future society in 1984 is based on, that one principle

[JAMMERXT]

Oh, its this new thing in Britain where cameras are placed all over the place and rumor is that they can tell you to stop running or to stop smoking or whatever

[JAMMERXT]

Since you are an atheist how do you think that language developed? There were no words for any thought, but obviously they thought about something.