At Long Last, the Dark

[Riesa]

There is no need for these lights anymore,
the ones passing by on a cold autumn road,
the ones I thought were bringing you to me.

I've sat listening, while the locusts cry
between the call of a Chuck-will's-widow
and the warbling scream of some desperate animal
sends shudders through my motherly blood,

hearing the cry of my children, born to this waiting.

[blp]

This is lovely and haunting, Riesa, but unless it's me who's confused, I'm pretty sure you've lost control of the syntax in that grammatically complicated second stanza.

you've sat listening while the locusts cry between the call of a chuck-wills-widow and the desperate call of some desperate animal.

That part makes sense except that you sat in the past while the locusts cry in the present. Then you add 'sends shudders through my motherly blood'. Oh, I've got it. It's the locusts cry that does this, not the call of the animal. You just need a comma after 'animal' to make it clear. It's a problem though, because you'd expect the call of the animal to send shudders too. Anyway, do locusts 'cry'? I imagine them making some sort of chirping noise with their legs like crickets.

[Riesa]

hmm.

well. I did, I sat (in the past) before writing the poem, and yet...as I wrote, they continued to cry (which they do, and in fact, are.), and no, it's not the locusts cry that sends shudders, the animal does. the locusts are just the electric present. I don't want a comma after animal. I suppose I could change it to 'sending' but as it's all past-present-future at this moment I believe I'll keep it as is. :p any clearer? :lol: thanks for reading blp. :)

[blp]

No, honest, it's not saying what you mean at the moment. Not grammatically anyway. The animal call is part of two clauses. Try turning the clauses into sentences and you'll see it doesn't work. The animal is simultaneously indirect object (locust cry happens between it and something else) and subject (it sends shudders).

[Riesa]

okay. I will. thanks. :)

while the locusts cry I sit listening,

between the call of a Chuck-will's-widow
and the warbling scream of some desperate animal

shudders lurch through my motherly blood,

better? or am I just thoroughly and hopelessly lost? :p don't answer that.

[blp]

Definitely better. It makes the syntax work. You could also keep and clarify the relationship between the call and the shudders with a 'which': 'which sends...'

[Riesa]

while the locusts cry I sit listening,

between the call of a Chuck-will's-widow
and the warbling scream of some desperate animal,

which sends shudders lurching through my motherly blood

I hear the cry of my children, born to this waiting.

damn, that comma after animal. grr. :blush:

[blp]

Grammar is a stern master!

It's sorted. The comma's really OK.

[Il Penseroso]

I'd say the confusion lays with the word 'between'. With it there the scream of the animal becomes the secondary object for the pair, which makes the shudders seem to come from the locusts. Then again, I suck with grammar. Good poem though Riesa, really. I like the first best though.

[Riesa]

thanks, IP. glad to know I'm not the only poet around here with a distaste for the mechanics of grammar...turns the feeling into a machine, ick. it reminds me of math. icktwice.

I like the first best too. therein lies the crux of me problem. :D

it is basically this...

the locusts are constant as heartbeats. I hear the bird...and next the animal...some tortured raccoon, I think, that is why I say 'between' there. the sound of the locusts is between the bird and the raccoon. or fox, or mountain lion? or maybe it was a stolen baby foxy-raccoon being mauled by a mountain lion. :p I know that it's lazy to lay grammar aside and yet I feel it's part of the enjoyment of creating my poetry sometimes to play with it a bit.

and any stern master I shy away from. part of my rebellious nature. ;)

[Virgil]

I like the first version too, although I see the grammar problem. Is it a big deal? I can't stand the use of the word "lurch,." And even in first version this line "sends shudders through my motherly blood" is rather commonplace, even cliched. "Lurch," shudders," "motherly blood," right out of a dime novel in my opinion. The rest is nice. A little different than your usual style. The only line that really grabs me is the last one, "hearing the cry of my children, born to this waiting."

[Riesa]

hey, mad, bad and dangerous...;)

yes, lurch was a not very well thought out quick addition brought about by blp's keen eye for grammar....but it works with shudder better than flows which was my first not very well thought out word-choice.


thanks for the dime novel comment, I appreciate that one. :p :lol:
but I see where you are coming from now that you point it out to me. :blush:

I suppose if the meaning becomes murky the grammar does become an issue.

thanks for reading, Virgil. :)

[PrinceMyshkin]

There is no need for these lights anymore,
the ones passing by on a cold autumn road,
the ones I thought were bringing you to me.

I've sat listening, while the locusts cry
between the call of a Chuck-will's-widow
and the warbling scream of some desperate animal
sends shudders through my motherly blood,

hearing the cry of my children, born to this waiting.

I do agree with the need for commas (Remember Flaubert's comment that "a comma, well-placed, can kill). I'd have wanted ones after the 4th and the 6th lines, if indeed that is consistent with your.

And while I support the poster who remarked on the fineness of that last line, it too raises an issue for me: 2 in fact. Most logically it is the children who are waiting, but I don't see the relevance of that. The second problem for me is that I took the ones I thought were bringing you to me to be a reference to an awaited lover, which I didn't know how to fit with the last line.

But let me comment appreciatively on details such as the "Chuck-will's-widow" and "the warbling scream of some desperate animal"

[Riesa]

well, thanks.

if indeed consistent with my...? thanks for the read and the time to comment, PrinceMyshkin.

the last line is a fear of passing down a damaging humility, a feminine state of waiting for all to come, not actively pursuing.

[PrinceMyshkin]

if indeed consistent with my...?

intention. Careless of me. You get my last note to you?

[Riesa]

well, I knew it, just wanted to make sure.


hmm...but if I AM? that I got.

[PrinceMyshkin]

hmm...but if I AM? that I got.

Speaking as one n------c to another, you will understand how I feel about enigmatic messages!

[symphony]

I agree with the importance of punctuations in poems. But i really dont think grammar is too big a deal when it comes to purely-felt poems like this, plus- its not like this is sounding totally amateur without those changes. I like the unedited version more. Anything when edited loses its former odor. To put it simply, I believe in the 'grammar sucks, poetic insight rules' theory. :lol:
Good one, Riesa.

[jon1jt]

a lot of talk about poetry and grammar here, huh? if grammar applied to poetry there'd be no need for poetry as an art form, or maybe i'm missing something here, i dunno. can you imagine uncle Walt Whitman subject to a grammarian?

"One hour to madness and joy! O furious! O confine me not!"

shouldn't that be, "Do not confine me!" Walter!

"To court destruction with taunts!"

fragments, fragments, all fragments, naughty naughty boy! :)

oh i'm just being silly.

as far as this poem goes, it's a damn good one. nothing more to say.

[blp]

a lot of talk about poetry and grammar here, huh? if grammar applied to poetry there'd be no need for poetry as an art form, or maybe i'm missing something here, i dunno.

Oh for...Aarggh! Yeah! You are!

I have to say, I'm incredibly irritated by the barbaric yawp brigade in general here. Frankly, I expect more from the lot of you. I have absolutely no problem with either of jon's examples, or with numerous other examples of grammatical rules chucked out when it worked for the poem. What I identified here was an unintended confusion, not a deliberate ambiguity. You said yourself, Riesa, that you wanted the shudders to be caused by the cry of the desperate animal. Well, that and the three lines preceding it are totally unclear. I resorted to grammatical terminology to explain why, but it's not like I'm stentorianly tutting at you about some arbitrary school rule like standing up when the head teacher walks in or using secondly instead of second or which instead of that. Grrr. I'm just trying to bring out the intended sense of the poem. And it's relatively simple. You can do it with one bloody word and no comma without losing any of what you like about the poem. Here:


There is no need for these lights anymore,
the ones passing by on a cold autumn road,
the ones I thought were bringing you to me.

I've sat listening, while the locusts cry
between the call of a Chuck-will's-widow
and the warbling scream of some desperate animal
that sends shudders through my motherly blood,

hearing the cry of my children, born to this waiting.

And yes, PrinceMyshkin's right, both about the Flaubert quote and...did he say the repetition of 'cry' was a problem. I think so. But I do really like the poem.

[jon1jt]

Oh for...Aarggh! Yeah! You are!

I have to say, I'm incredibly irritated by the barbaric yawp brigade in general here. Frankly, I expect more from the lot of you. I have absolutely no problem with either of jon's examples, or with numerous other examples of grammatical rules chucked out when it worked for the poem. What I identified here was an unintended confusion, not a deliberate ambiguity. You said yourself, Riesa, that you wanted the shudders to be caused by the cry of the desperate animal. Well, that and the three lines preceding it are totally unclear. I resorted to grammatical terminology to explain why, but it's not like I'm stentorianly tutting at you about some arbitrary school rule like standing up when the head teacher walks in or using secondly instead of second or which instead of that. Grrr. I'm just trying to bring out the intended sense of the poem. And it's relatively simple. You can do it with one bloody word and no comma without losing any of what you like about the poem. Here:


There is no need for these lights anymore,
the ones passing by on a cold autumn road,
the ones I thought were bringing you to me.

I've sat listening, while the locusts cry
between the call of a Chuck-will's-widow
and the warbling scream of some desperate animal
that sends shudders through my motherly blood,

hearing the cry of my children, born to this waiting.

And yes, PrinceMyshkin's right, both about the Flaubert quote and...did he say the repetition of 'cry' was a problem. I think so. But I do really like the poem.


oh you bloody poet would you get on over here and let me give ya a barbaric hug and then we'll hold up placards of compassion and spit expletives in verse from rooftops! yippeeeee! and that damn barbaric yawp brigade, bunch of bloody blokes who needs 'em! ::p

alright, look, i'll admit that I practice my grammar every day and use the Blue Book of Grammar & Punctuation and even have a membership to their website for the terrific practice drills and can locate predicate nominatives and adjectives in any darn sentence! :lol: no lie, I'm serious...i swear!

i see your point, blp, as it relates to the poem---makes sense. i hope no hard feelings, captain.

[Riesa]

alright, look, i'll admit that I practice my grammar every day and use the Blue Book of Grammar & Punctuation and even have a membership to their website for the terrific practice drills and can locate predicate nominatives and adjectives in any darn sentence! :lol: no lie, I'm serious...i swear!



wow. :eek:
I previously had you on my highest pedestal..that of geek, and now I believe you are the crowned king. makes my habit of flipping lazily through the Tormont Webster's Illustrated Encyclopedic Dictionary look purely, well...dork-like...I humbly return my tiara. ;)


"Do not confine me!" Walter!:lol: :lol: pure poetic genius.

and don't worry, my days of butchering the rules of grammar are far from over, only maybe this instructive session with Headmaster blp will veer me a little more towards the straight and narrow...but then if I continue to read such lines as this...


"One hour to madness and joy! O furious! O confine me not!" I may find myself heading into the open...once again, unschooled, unsubject to standard assessments. ;)

I do appreciate all the comments, (and unintended tutt-tutting) thanks guys. and girl. it does seem that the general consensus is positive towards the poem. :)


as for the grammar problem in my poem, I see the good in the simple change that blp has made with the addition of 'that', which is not so terrible, I could live with it. and yet, when I read it to myself, I find that that 'that' is implied, in my mind. I do wish for the meaning to be clear, so I'll eventually return to this, maybe some distance will make the confusion more apparent to me and changes will seem more necessary....

and I do quite agree that the repetition of cry is a problem, honestly I have just not gotten around to fixing it.

[Pendragon]

The Poem is fine. Too many opinions and who wrote the poem, you or your critics? Only take advice that you feel improves the poem.

Pen

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/AbsalomKane/Smilies/PuppyLove.gif

[PrinceMyshkin]

The Poem is fine. Too many opinions and who wrote the poem, you or your critics? Only take advice that you feel improves the poem.

Pen

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/AbsalomKane/Smilies/PuppyLove.gif

Yeh, there's always the danger that after you'd heard 2, 3 opinions on what should be done you lose contact with the indespensable original energy that produced the poem.

[ktd222]

blp was right. The poem initially was not fine because it did not say what Riesa meant. It is ok now, though.

[littlewing53]

hello riesa...is it too late to bring my obscure thoughts to this post...i really enjoyed reading your poem...it always opens a door to peer inside the writer's heart and thoughts...i love to read the words and what images they bring to mind...what you wrote and what an individual sees is so interesting...grammar...it scares the heck outta me...gee, where do i put that comma...how does one end the sentence correctly...will it interrupt the words i want to put together...there's so much to think abt it gets in the way of the words..most of the time it comes out right and if it doesn't there's always another sentence/poem to write...how many times after looking at a poem did we want to change words??..that word doesn't describe what i want to say...how hard it is to leave a painting alone without wanting to go back and change it...it's the same with a poem or anything else we create...can't wait to see more...

[jon1jt]

blp was right. The poem initially was not fine because it did not say what Riesa meant. It is ok now, though.

i guess at the end of the day the reader decides what the poem says because what she intends to say--initially or otherwise--is not necessarily what's understood, or felt. i do think the poem could use a comma after 'animal' though. :p

[Riesa]

At Long Last, the Dark


There is no need for these lights anymore,
the ones passing by on a cold autumn road,
the ones I thought were bringing you to me.

I've sat listening, while the locusts cry
between the call of a Chuck-will's-widow
and the warbling scream of some desperate animal-
sends shudders through my motherly blood,

hearing the keen of my children, born to this waiting.


thanks, all.

[ktd222]

i guess at the end of the day the reader decides what the poem says because what she intends to say--initially or otherwise--is not necessarily what's understood, or felt. i do think the poem could use a comma after 'animal' though. :p

That sounds great...not to the composer, but that sounds great.:p

[PrinceMyshkin]

I would still prefer commas after the 4th & 6th lines rather than what feels like the obtrusiveness of the dash.

(And I sent you a private message some days ago but haven't had a reply.)

[blp]

oh you bloody poet would you get on over here and let me give ya a barbaric hug and then we'll hold up placards of compassion and spit expletives in verse from rooftops! yippeeeee! and that damn barbaric yawp brigade, bunch of bloody blokes who needs 'em! ::p

alright, look, i'll admit that I practice my grammar every day and use the Blue Book of Grammar & Punctuation and even have a membership to their website for the terrific practice drills and can locate predicate nominatives and adjectives in any darn sentence! :lol: no lie, I'm serious...i swear!

i see your point, blp, as it relates to the poem---makes sense. i hope no hard feelings, captain.

Baah!

Oh alright. Something. Thingy. Mutter. prftf. Aww, shucks. Come 'ere, y'big grammar dummy!

Thanks, ktd. Glad someone got what I was on about.

The dash doesn't do it for me, Riesa. Sorry!

[jon1jt]

Baah!

Oh alright. Something. Thingy. Mutter. prftf. Aww, shucks. Come 'ere, y'big grammar dummy!

Thanks, ktd. Glad someone got what I was on about.

The dash doesn't do it for me, Riesa. Sorry!

see that? heck, i'm having a hands-across-the-world moment. lol!

R--i'm in the minority, but using the comma in this instant doesn't work. the dash denotes a breath, allowing for the practically uninhibited flow of the sentence, whereas the comma breaks or tends to separate the line from it's natural (rhythmic) continuation, thereby disrupting the total train of thought. :)

[Riesa]

aw. gotta love a coupla of grizzly ol' poets lovin' each other up. :p

thanks...littlewing, I really appreciated your input, btw..I was just in a rush yesterday, you too Pen, Ktd. thanks again, jon & blp.


At Long Last, the Dark


There is no need for these lights anymore,
the ones passing by on a cold autumn road,
the ones I thought were bringing you to me.

I've sat listening, while the locusts cry
between the call of a Chuck-will's-widow
and the warbling scream of some desperate animal--

sends shudders through my motherly blood,
feeling the chill of my children, born to this waiting.

[Pendragon]

aw. gotta love a coupla of grizzly ol' poets lovin' each other up. :p

okay...I think I can live with the following changes...

At Long Last, the Dark


There is no need for these lights anymore,
the ones passing by on a cold autumn road,
the ones I thought were bringing you to me.

I've sat listening,
between the call of a Chuck-will's-widow and the locusts razz
the warbling scream of some desperate animal
shudders through my motherly blood,

I hear the cry of my children, born to this waiting.


thanks...littlewing, I really appreciated your input, btw..I was just in a rush yesterday, you too Pen, Ktd. thanks again, jon & blp.Hey, the language of poetry is love, under the curmudgeon that lurks in us all…http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/AbsalomKane/Smilies/YouFigure.gif