Help with "To Kill A Mockingbird"

[bookworm77]

How is the title relevant to the text. I need people and specific episodes

[atreides]

Im guessing this is for a school thing? I studied the same book in grade 10 so...

I dont have a copy with me, and i wouldnt tell you anyway exactly where it is. But the only time I can remember the title being relevant to the text is when Scouts father gives her and Jem rifles for christmas and tells them they can shoot all the bluejays they want but its a sin to kill a mockingbird, or something like that. Its meant to be symbolic to certain characters in the book, thats all I will say.

[Diceman]

The meaning of the "killing a mockingbird" metaphor should be clear upon finishing the book, as Scout uses it in reference to another character very near the end of the story.

[ajoe]

Thought you crazy people might like this. :)
http://www.stanford.edu/~scodary/tkam.htm

[midwest]

Thats hillarious! It puts a whole new view on that one for me

[__steph]

Okay, so I have read the book twice now, and need a bit of help in the matter of race, gender, class and power discourses. Even a site with descriptions of one of those would be great.

[Scheherazade]

Hi Steph,

There have been some discussions on Mockingbird on this forum. You might like to read them:

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3057

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3729&page=1&pp=15


Also, http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/mocking/ is a great site which would help you analyse the book.

And when you ask google, it comes up with 644,000 results for To Kill a Mockingbird

Good luck!

[Nightshade]

You could always use GCSE web sites like Bite size as TKMB is on the GCSE syllibus!

[YellowCrayola]

Was there a specific message that Harper Lee was trying to convey to the reader regarding American history through her depiction of the Tom Robinson trial? I know part of it was the racism that flourished in the South, but was there something deeper she was trying to reveal?

I have to do a report on it, and I'm having trouble trying to decipher her true message. Help would be greatly appreciated. :)

[Mark F.]

Sure, there's a lot about racism in the novel, but I guess you could always bring up the way Atticus symbolises evolution/progress which is a historical mechanism. It's also the process oflearning as it's seen through the eyes of a child. I haven't TKMB in ages though.

[Satine]

Along the same lines, the fact that Atticus was not only willing to represent, but actually BELIEVED in Tom's story and knew that it was the truth...that was a rare point of view in those times. Atticus was a well-respected attorney, well-liked in the community, and yet he was not afraid to represent a black man in a very high-profile case. To Atticus, the trial was about the truth, and the truth was that Tom was innocent. Others were willing to convict Tom right off the bat because he was black, and all blacks were 'guilty' in the eyes of society at that time. He believed in the TRUTH and not the stereotype. Also, the issue of white women having romantic feelings for black men was significant. Nobody wanted to believe that Mayella may have actually had FEELINGS for Tom and that their relationship may not have been forced upon her. Society was willing to convict an innocent black man of rape rather than accept what may have been the real truth of the matter. It's been a while since I read this book but it is one of my ALL time favorites. Harper Lee did such an excellent job of depicting and developing these characters. I thought that the movie with Gregory Peck was fantastic. He was the perfect person to play Atticus Finch. Anyway, hope that helps!

[LeslieS]

I think there's a deeper meaning to color in this book. From Scout's perspective, Cal is black but she's good, and Atticus is white and obviously he's good. But she's realizing that the townspeople think black equals bad and white equals good. And as she later learns, Atticus' attitude that justice is colorblind is the actual truth. You could also consider Boo Radley's unknown status (is he bad or good?) falls in line with his unknown color (no one's ever seen him).

I could talk about this novel all day but the baby's crying so I have to go. Hope this is helpful!

[Scheherazade]

To Kill A Mockingbird deals with more issues than racism. It is true that Lee, through Tom Robinson's trial, explores the deep rooted racism in the South; however, the 'mockingbird' analogy carries deeper meanings. In the book, as well as Tom, we see many characters who are judged prematurely. The most strikingly, everyone in the town believe in the awful stories they themselves create about Boo Radley but later on in the book we find out that he is a kind person who tries to give gifts to children and who does not hesitate to risk his own life to protect them. Scout gets punished at school simply because she knows how to read. Children are prejudiced towards Mrs Dubose but later on we find out that she has been trying to overcome a terrible addiction. People think Mr Raymond is a drunk man even though he does not drink.

The book is rich with people who are treated unfairly, which serve to prove that prejudice is a part of our lives. All these 'mockingbirds', despite the fact that they do not do anything to harm others, suffer in one way or other because of this prejudice. Atticus says 'You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view . . . until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.', which what Lee wants us to do as well... Take a moment to understand these people and then we won't be able to treat them so unfairly.

I think in the novel Atticus represents the sound, just, moral common sense. He treats everyone with the same fairness regardless of their race, gender, class or age. He is the only one who calls Mayella 'Miss', which surprises even her. He treats Calpurnia as part of the family, agrees to defend Tom, and he lets his children talk to him as if they are equals (so much so that they call him by his first name, not 'Father').

Love the book, love the movie, love the characters!

[mono]

I could not agree more with all of the above replies.
The 'mockingbird' analogy, though I read To Kill A Mockingbird over a year ago, I understood relatively recently, while not really thinking about it, but more it just came to me. :rolleyes:
As Scher said, the novel does debate many, many issues in racism, but more lies underneath the obvious fact, especially regarding Boo. Atticus has always reminded me of a judge in a lesser position; he seeks true, objective justice based on facts, equality, and correct punishment. Unfortunately, the majority of the world works against him, as Lee demonstrates, with more bias, particularly in the era of the novel.

[YellowCrayola]

Wow! http://clicksmilies.com/s0105/aktion/action-smiley-018.gif Thank you very much for all of your comments! They're all truly helpful, and I will definitely be using them in my essay. http://clicksmilies.com/s0105/aktion/action-smiley-068.gif

Say, would you consider the racism that flourished in America during the early to mid-20th century one of the "dark ages" in American history? I was thinking that should be my thesis.

[mono]

Say, would you consider the racism that flourished in America during the early to mid-20th century one of the "dark ages" in American history? I was thinking that should be my thesis.
Every era of every countries history, I think, has a dark age of its own, and, yes, in my opinion, the depressing attributes of racism would strongly highlight the "dark age" of the 20th century. I like the sound of that thesis topic.
Good luck! :nod:

[YellowCrayola]

Ah, thanks mono. I'm going to start on my essay today.

I'll keep you guys posted! Thanks for all the help again! ;)

[Aurora Ariel]

It's been quite a while since I read this book.I remember reading this a few years ago and been really effected by the story and finding Atticus Finch to be one of the most memorable characters I've read in a book as a teenager.I was always disappointed with humanity while learning the history of racism.It's very depressing for one to read both fiction and non-fiction accounts in history classes of all of the unfortunate things homo sapiens have done to one another over the years.We have a long history of prejudice and persecution.The character Atticus made a very good point when he spoke about "not been able to know what it is truely like for another until you walk a mile in their own shoes,'' which I think is a very simply comment but with alot of depth and asking for further reflection; especially from those individuals who are more likely to engage in cruel discrimination or become more suscepitible to vicious crimes and support racism.Another book I read, now many years ago, was about racism in Mississippi in the 1930's.It was called Roll Of Thunder, Hear My Cry and by Mildred D.Taylor.Has anyone else ever read this book as well?Early last year, I also read a powerful book about the caste system in India called Untouchable, by Mulk Raj Anand.Has anyone else read or heard of this book or read a book similar to one of the above that touched them or made them think further about the past(and also present- in certain cases)cruelty of humanity?

[Scheherazade]

In my opinion, concentrating mainly on racism would make To Kill A Mockingbird kind of a one dimentional book (Sorry, I have simply too much respect for this book! :)). If I were to write an essay, I would concentrate on prejudice in general (more material as well).

[Aurora Ariel]

As I said before:it has been a while since I've read this book myself;but before I was commenting more of the various cruel acts conducted across time;which I learnt about through reading history.Racism is just one example of this and has featured in other books(such as the fiction) which I have read.Yes, I agree that racism is only one factor and that the book(when doing an detailed essay or researched thesis)needs to be anaylsed as a whole and other layers built up.That is one layer (though significant) of the book and only one dimension in the history of homo sapiens prejudice and persecution throughout various ages.When I mentioned the unfortunate and depressing things that many of our fellow-species have done to one another over the years I was talking in a more generalised context;racisim is only one factor of discrimination and persecution.There are many reasons, beside the colour of ones skin, why discrimination and cruelty has flourished in the past.
Anyway, I wish you best luck with your final work!:)

['64cal lookdub]

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but I need some help here. I need some input on religion in the book. I have to do a project over it and I'm stuck on finding examples. I have to come up with 4 characters and two examples for each character for a mind map. To me it seemed like there wasn't much to choose from, unless I'm not thinking deep enough. I remember about calpurnia's church and the foot washers but thats all I could think of. Any advice on the religion tying in with the book would be much appreciated.:brickwall

[subterranean]

Hi,

When is the due date?

[Schokokeks]

I don't know if I'm right here, it's been some time that I read the book, but on my copy there's a quote by Atticus on the back, saying "Shoot all the blue jays you want, if you can hit 'em, but remember it is a sin to kill a mockingbird."
Now you could analyse to what degree the word 'sin' is meant to be tainted religiously here and whether that topic of 'sin' re-appears later in the book when the mockingbird actually is killed. The quote is from the passage where the children are on the Finch farm with their relatives, I think.
Good luck with your essay ! :)

['64cal lookdub]

Thanks for the reply, but where does it talk about the bird getting killed? I didn't know a monkingbird was killed.

['64cal lookdub]

oh and due date is in a week.

[mono]

Hello, '64cal, welcome to the forum. :)
Calpurnia's churchgoings and the washing of feet, I think, could definitely work for examples, as well as, what Schokokeks suggested, the quote from Atticus.
To me, if anyone has an impact on belief - of faith and reason, superstition, wonder, and transcendence, I would also suggest writing of Arthur ('Boo') Radley. Though not to sound too stereotypical or preaching (especially that I do not consider myself Christian), I always thought Boo had a bit of a Christ-like presence in the novel: mysterious, comforting, legendary, a person who everyone knew, yet also a very kind, giving person ruined and tainted by the evil deeds of others. Tom Robinson, the man on trial, in a way, shares the same mentality in the novel; he, however, seems even more vulnerable for his ethnic background and his physical disability. Boo Radley ad Tom Robinson: both very good men, but also accused, framed, and labelled as horrible individuals.
Good luck!

[mono]

Thanks for the reply, but where does it talk about the bird getting killed? I didn't know a monkingbird was killed.
Oops, I just noticed this reply as I posted my last message.
An actual mockingbird ever gets killed in the novel, but the 'mockingbird' appears more symbolic (a metaphor) for ravaged goodness and innocence. In my opinion, the two specific characters who represent mockingbirds, as mentioned in my previous post - Boo Radley and Tom Robinson. Though not literally killed, Boo seems a very vulnerable and exposed individual (exposed by gossip and mouth-to-mouth legends), and with Tom Robinson, the concept of destroyed innocence seems far more prominent.

[Psycheinaboat]

It has been a long time since I read To Kill a Mockingbird, so please forgive me for not remembering minute details.

There were some parts of the novel that pointed out the difference between those who act religious and those who truly take spiritual growth seriously to promote kindness and good in the world.

There is a part when a religious person, one assumes a fundamentalist, says something negative to the neighbor lady who lives across the street from Scout. The fundamentalist feels that the neighbor lady should spend more time attending church and reading the Bible than working in her garden. They see the wonderful flower garden as a vanity, an indulgence. The neighbor lady is kind to Scout and others in the book and grows beautiful flowers, while the “religious” person is throwing venom at her. This could be paralleled with how “good” people allow Boo to suffer and an innocent man to be persecuted.

Another example of “good” people doing bad things is when Atticus is almost beaten by a mob of local men who are stopped by Scout recognizing and greeting one of them.

[Maida]

I'm sorry if this is too late, but there's also that missionary circle meeting Aunt Alexandra had where they talked about the Mrunas and how they were going to "help" them. Plus, all through out the novel you find little tid-bits of religion come up. Like the football game, I think it was the Methodists and Baptists that were playing, but I would use Boo Radley as one of the characters, and maybe even the old lady, Mrs. Dubose.

[ennison]

It is clear that religious belief is one of the themes that interest Lee in her novel. She is able both to criticise and applaud religion from her position as a Southern insider in a way that makes her criticism more potent and her applause more sympathetic. Reference to belief and how it affects behaviour recur throughout the novel and are an integral part of the development of characterisation and novel structure. Scout's growing awareness of the complexity of her community and the complexity of her neighbours ties in with Lee's ideas on religion.
The visit to Calpurnia's church is a good example of several facets of the novel coming together. There we see the themes of racism, religion and the growing child's mind coming together. In what amounts to little more than an aside we are informed that 'First Purchase' church is used by white gamblers during the week. This tiny detail shows how the local coloured Christian community are held in contemptuous disrespect by some white racists. But the way in which institutionalised racism permeates and poisons a whole society is also brought to our attention through the spiteful character of the coloured woman Lula who tries to block the chioldren's entry to the church on the grounds of their race. To me, an outsider, Christian segregation on grounds of race is a weird idea.(This is different from language and culture) A much worse idea than splits on minor doctrinal differences which in itself is poor reason for having a multitude of spires. Once inside, Scout notices many things that are similar to her own religious background and several that are different from it. Most obviously she notices the absence of furnishings and hymn books; this is attributable to the poverty and lack of education of the local coloureds. She also notices the precentor (a fascinating detail which indicates cross-cultural influences) leading the singing. Another difference is the freedom with which the minister addresses his flock; this is attributable to doctrinal and interpretive differences. She observes though the similarity in a sermon that draws attention to the idea of females as temptresses (Ah yon blone Eve and her illicit apple!) Note that although Scout notices all that she does not put two and two together then. It is the older Scout, the narrator, who, in recollection, is able to do that. Much of what is related is given without explanation because it is simply seen through the eyes of a child gradually becoming aware of the differences within her own community.

[ennison]

These differences have already been introduced in the novel through the character of Miss Maudie who tells Scout about some of the local fundamentalists and schismatics (comically Scout finds it difficult to grasp just what a 'footwasher' is). Maudie believes that it due to their fundamentalist religious beliefs that the Radleys have punished Arthur so severely for his teenage escapades. She finds some of theses over-zealous beliefs very distasteful. She likens attempts to browbeat with the Bible as worse than the behaviour of a drunk. This heightens the idea of irrationality in the behaviour of zealots. She tells Scout that some fundamentalists are enclosed in a hard shell which cuts them off from basic human feelings. She says that a too focussed concentration on the next life leads to an inability to live properly here. (This is a fundamental idea that is worth your while exploring - within the bounds of grace and intellect of course) Maudie has felt the edge of the fundamentalists' tongues when they emerge from the woods to cast condemnatory texts at her for her concentration on the art of gardening, To these Maudie, herself Biblically literate, is able to reply with counter-texts.
Maudie is clearly a focus for Lee's religious views just as Atticus is for her views on law and justice. Although Lee is something of a recluse it is obvious to me that she must be a practising Christian. Maudie not only criticises but exemplifies certain types of Christian behaviour, not only in her kindness to the children but in her attempt to defend others. She is the one who tries to reassure a stressed and tearful Alexandra later; she is the one who defends Atticus behaviour from a Christian perspective; she is the one who trips up the hypocrites at the Missionary Society meeting in Atticus' home. Note also her brave response to the destruction of her home by fire. This non-materialistic response to a loss is not just the stoicism of the pagan but of one who believes it important to bare a merry countenance. And it must be a terrible loss to one already a widow.
Thus the religious ideas are probably best studied through the character of Maudie who principally embodies Lee's thoughts but key scenes such as the Missionary Society meeeting with its multiple ironies are also worth exploring in detail. Calpurnia's church also has these - missionary meetings and hypocrites.
It is only by being an insider that Lee can present these to us so clearly. Only one who has fundamental principles of her own can present such a critical yet sympathetic picture of the Baptist beliefs of the Southern USA.
And that is only one aspect of this delightful novel.

[Lozenge121]

I think that To Kill a Mockingbird has many themes expressed throughout it, what prejudices other than racism are shown in the book? I think commitment to the cause is an important issue, with Atticus being committed to proving what he believes is true, and the white racists committed to their beliefs about coloured people. Also, what's the meaning of the title, 'To Kill a Mockingbird', what relevance does this play? Thanks

[Jetxa]

It's not that racism and prejudice do not play a part in the book, but I see more of a mob mentality theme. If one is forced to see the truth about others they are often forced to see the truth about themselves. What better way to hide than to be part of the group and therefore throw the focus off oneself?

The kill a mockingbird reference is to the senseless slaughter of innocence and joy; as to let it remain forces one to see the ugliness inside themselves. It pronounces us guilty.

Just my opinion.

[Anthony Furze]

Its all about what goes on behind closed doors, as Miss Maudie says. Theres a deeper more sinister side to the tale...

[Madhuri]

Early last year, I also read a powerful book about the caste system in India called Untouchable, by Mulk Raj Anand.Has anyone else read or heard of this book or read a book similar to one of the above that touched them or made them think further about the past(and also present- in certain cases)cruelty of humanity?

I have read Chandalika (also known as untouchable girl) by Rabindranath Tagore. Its about a girl who is from a low caste, and one day when a disciple of Buddha asks her for some water, she refuses saying she is from a low caste and he is not supposed to have anything from her hands (believe me, you'll still find such mentality, if you visit remote villages), and then the story takes on how she falls in love with him, how Gautam Buddha pursudes her to leave the disciple, as he is not worldly.

I read To Kill a Mocking Bird long time back, I'll have to read it again to be more specific in this thread.

[Lozenge121]

Thanks Jetxa, that helps :)

[stephofthenight]

ok so ive been out of school all week puking my guts out, and im in ap english. well mrs.roberts called me ro tell me that this paper is due today no exceptions so i just found out and i need help...

topic...you never realy know a man until you stand in his shoes and walk around in them. using your own reading observation and experince o support your position defend, challenge or qualify atticus' assertion.


people are like black leopards, the truth is camouflauged by the dark surface: its only when you are close enough to become them that you can see the small spotted imperfections that make them who they are despite the dark surface.


that is like all i can think of right now. and she will most likely fail this anyway as i have failed every paper in that class. ok u dont understand my bad. my sister had the same teacher and is going to baylor on a full paid english scholership. and my teacher compares our papers and mine suk compared to hers. so will someone please help me i realy have to pass this with an amazing grade or ill fail english..i basicly need tips and tricks all that mess and wher i can go from here on this if you have read the book please help me...

[SleepyWitch]

ok so ive been out of school all week puking my guts out, and im in ap english. well mrs.roberts called me ro tell me that this paper is due today no exceptions so i just found out and i need help...

topic...you never realy know a man until you stand in his shoes and walk around in them. using your own reading observation and experince o support your position defend, challenge or qualify atticus' assertion.


people are like black leopards, the truth is camouflauged by the dark surface: its only when you are close enough to become them that you can see the small spotted imperfections that make them who they are despite the dark surface.


that is like all i can think of right now. and she will most likely fail this anyway as i have failed every paper in that class. ok u dont understand my bad. my sister had the same teacher and is going to baylor on a full paid english scholership. and my teacher compares our papers and mine suk compared to hers. so will someone please help me i realy have to pass this with an amazing grade or ill fail english..i basicly need tips and tricks all that mess and wher i can go from here on this if you have read the book please help me...
is your teacher allowed to do that? she should have phoned you earlier, seeing as all the other students had so much more time to work on their essay.
Have you handed in a sick note? If you have, you are officially excused, aren't you? so she has to give you an extension seeing as she didn't phone you in time.

[nps_marina]

topic: the real mockingbirds in the book are both the black man who is on trial (I can't remember his name, now) and the next-door neighbour. Mockinbirds are beautiful in their strangeness. People, who don't understand or who are jealous, want to thwart their freedom. It's a sin to kill a mockingbird.
Killing him by trial or killing him by foolish rumors or by having him out in the open where he doesn't want to be.
Expand on the chapter when what's-her-name (the main character) overhears the cop and her dad talking???

These are just suggestions.

[ulvmane]

robot pirate boo radley?? ... WOOOOOT id give it the pulitzer LOL

[Bakiryu]

t'was funny!

[kenikki]

I've literally just finished reading'To Kill A Mockingbird' after much procrastination and feel quite effected of by the tribulations of the 'Finches'.The character development are incredible and the storytelling was pretty flawless. Only moan is on the abundance of plot lines and paragraphs are pointless.
In short, I haven't been so engrossed in a novel for a very long time. It took me three days to finish which is a true sign for me that I really did enjoy it!:p
I'm not one for straightforward literature but...wow.
...sorry for the totally off topic rant but I wanted to share how much I truly enjoyed the book and is one that I have blindly criticized yet will now stay with me for ever.
I think in future I will read then criticize a book as I never know I may just love it. :blush:

[kathycf]

Hi kenikki:

May I ask why you criticized the book before reading it? Was there some negative association you had, or was it based on another person' review of the book?

I very much agree that it is better to read something than not read it due to a negative association. You are right...you just never know. I guess I base negative associations that I might have about a book more on if I have read something by the same author, didn't like it...well, then I would be reluctant to read something else by that person. But still, that doesn't always hold true either, so I shouldn't always think that.

Bah, I am rambling. I am glad you enjoyed the book, it has always been one of my favorites. The movie was pretty good, too. An older film so somewhat dated, but still good. :)

[Turk]

I don't think it's a good novel, it's more like a collection of short stories which are related to each other.

[nps_marina]

I'm glad you liked the book, Kenikki, though as Kathycf, I wonder why you criticised(sp?) it so much before?
Anyway, I loved that book (read it this summer, actually, though it had been on my sister's shelf since forever)- it immediately snapped into being one of my favorites, and it also took me completely in and I couldn't drop it for as long as it lasted.

... glad to add one more adept... *mrawhaha*

[kenikki]

nps_marina & kathy, I criticized the book so much before I read it because of all the hype surrounding it. I hate hype and am convinced otherwise that the book can be any good. I wasn't totally satisfied by the finished product but I think it is a whole lot better than I thought it would be. My professor says that I am quite stubborn about the types of literature I like and thus I do not make room for others!
It is going to be the same way when I finally read Catch-22 but I think that will be a real good read.

[Scheherazade]

I don't think it's a good novel, it's more like a collection of short stories which are related to each other.I think someone needs to re-read the book! :D

[quasimodo1]

To Scheherazade: I'm glad Harper Lee didn't see a critic pan her novel as a collection of short stories. Besides being such a moving novel, don't you think Gregory Peck had his second best role there? quasimodo1

[Scheherazade]

To Scheherazade: I'm glad Harper Lee didn't see a critic pan her novel as a collection of short stories. Besides being such a moving novel, don't you think Gregory Peck had his second best role there? quasimodo1Couldn't agree more! :)

Which one is his best role in your opinion?

[Turk]

I think someone needs to re-read the book! :D

Well i actually read it carefully. The book is good, stories are nice, style is warm and characters are good enough. But i don't think it's tehnically good novel; if it's technically a novel. It's more like a collection of short stories and relatively easy book to write compared to works of masters of novel such as Dostoievsky or Balzac.

[kenikki]

Well i actually read it carefully. The book is good, stories are nice, style is warm and characters are good enough. But i don't think it's tehnically good novel; if it's technically a novel. It's more like a collection of short stories and relatively easy book to write compared to works of masters of novel such as Dostoievsky or Balzac.

I sort of have to agree with Turk on this one. There was no real flow to the novel and I did feel at times it was just a bunch of events pieced together to make a whole story. It may have been disjointed at times but saying that it was an easy read and was never as challenging as something by Joyce or Dostovesky.

[Scheherazade]

Well i actually read it carefully. The book is good, stories are nice, style is warm and characters are good enough. But i don't think it's tehnically good novel; if it's technically a novel. It's more like a collection of short stories and relatively easy book to write compared to works of masters of novel such as Dostoievsky or Balzac.Are you sure we are talking about the same novel? Not sure what you mean 'a collection of short stories' as in TKAM, the same story-line throughout the novel.

Winesburg, Ohio by Anderson, for example, might be considered a collection of short stories but not TKAM.

[Turk]

Yepp, i am talking about same book. Main theme of book is prejudices, it keeps going on all the book, but still events are mostly apart from each other. I think because novel has weak technic Truman Capote (was a friend of Harper Lee) didn't think the book would be successful. Also as i know Harper Lee was never able to write a 2. good book too, if she had the technic she would be able to continue writing.

[GrayFoxDown]

TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD may appear flawed as a novel because it's overwhelmed by its flawless and impressive cinematic version. The novel lacks the poetry of the film, the depth of characterizations (Peck is magnificent), and the beauty of Elmer Bernstein's masterful score. I believe that when we think of TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD, the film and NEVER the novel will always come to mind. (This is similar to Capote's BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S next to that novel's film version...and so forth.)

[kenikki]

TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD may appear flawed as a novel because it's overwhelmed by its flawless and impressive cinematic version. The novel lacks the poetry of the film, the depth of characterizations (Peck is magnificent), and the beauty of Elmer Bernstein's masterful score. I believe that when we think of TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD, the film and NEVER the novel will always come to mind. (This is similar to Capote's BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S next to that novel's film version...and so forth.)

Plus they did cut out all the unnecessary bits from the novel when they made the film. :idea: :D

[GrayFoxDown]

I haven't read either novel since I was a freshman in college (about 35 years ago!). However, in both cases (especially Breakfast) it's as if an entirely new story emerged in the film versions...for the better, I think.

[quasimodo1]

To Scheherazade: Gregory Peck's best role=Captain Ahab. quasimodo1

[Turk]

Breakfast in Tiffany's also reminds me Chingiz Aytmatov's Jamila. Maybe Jamila inspired Capote to write Breakfast in Tiffany's.

[ennison]

TKAM is a very well structured novel and how anyone can see it as a collection of short stories beats me. The themes link everything, the motifs link everything, the narrative voice links everything, the developing characters of Jem and Scout link everything, the family relationships link everything, the plot structure built around the trial is there throughout. the dense local colour creates the feel of a fully imagined community built on a real place. There's hardly a flaw - unless it's the lack of complexity in Atticus. But as Atticus was based on Lee's own father whom she admired it wouldn't be likely that she was going to examine the wounds of isolated widowhood too closely.

[Turk]

Apparently Truman Capote wasn't thinking TKAM is a good structured novel too.

[kathycf]

Apparently Truman Capote wasn't thinking TKAM is a good structured novel too.

Truman Capote is not the only authority on what makes a novel a quality work of fiction. :) To Kill a Mockingbird won the 1961 Pulitzer prize for fiction. The Pulitzer is an American award, so I am going under the assumption that you may not be familiar with it. The short version is this:


The Pulitzer Prize, pronounced /'pʊl.ɪt.zɚ/ ("PULL-it-zer"[1]), is an American award regarded as the highest national honor in print journalism, literary achievements, and musical composition. It is administered by Columbia University in New York City.

Prizes are awarded yearly in twenty-one categories. In twenty of these, each winner receives a certificate and a US$10,000 cash reward. The winner in the public service category of the journalism competition is awarded a gold medal, which always goes to a newspaper, although an individual may be named in the citation.

The prize was established by Joseph Pulitzer, a Hungarian-American journalist and newspaper publisher, who left money to Columbia University upon his death in 1911. A portion of his bequest was used to found the university's journalism school in 1912. The first Pulitzer Prizes were awarded on June 4, 1917, and they are now announced each April. Recipients are chosen by an independent board.

[Turk]

Truman Capote is not the only authority on what makes a novel a quality work of fiction. :) To Kill a Mockingbird won the 1961 Pulitzer prize for fiction. The Pulitzer is an American award, so I am going under the assumption that you may not be familiar with it. The short version is this:

Novel got that prize after selling thousands of copies, Capote didn't think it's a good novel before it's printed. There's quite big difference.

[kathycf]

How does that make a "big" difference? The prize is administered to quality works, not crap. Capote's opinion is one opinion. As is your's and mine.

Many other writers thought highly of Lee's book. I don't base my opinion of any book based on what Truman Capote thought of it. If you agree with his opinion, fine. Other people obviously hold other opinions and those are just as valid. :)

[Turk]

How does that make a "big" difference? The prize is administered to quality works, not crap. Capote's opinion is one opinion. As is your's and mine.

It's big difference. One is before printed, it was read by Capote before the book get public interest. Jury read that book after it's printed and already became a successfull book. Do i have to explain more to show there's a big difference between these two stiuation? Also Capote's opinion is not a random person's opinion. So do you think an uneducated Tibetian farmer's opinion is as important and accurate as Capote's opinion?

Plus, everyone knows juries are affected by public opinion if you would send TKAM before it's printed they wouldn't think it's a great achivment. I can bet she wouldn't get that prize if her book wouldn't sell a lot. And personally i always prefer to believe an artist's opinion rather than a jury's opinion.

[kathycf]

ISo do you think an uneducated Tibetian farmer's opinion is as important and accurate as Capote's opinion?



Where did I mention anything about uneducated anybody? We were (I thought) discussing Harper Lee winning the 1961 Pulitzer prize. The prize is administered by Columbia University, which is an extremely well respected institute of higher learning...hardly uneducated. If you are going to make a point could you base it on something I actually posted and not some made up example?

I think you are missing my point entirely anyway....and point of fact I don't think Truman Capote is the finest writer to ever walk the face of the earth, but I am quite willing to accept that my opinion of his work is SUBJECTIVE. Rather than trying to enter into a rather tiresome debate about the validity of Truman Capote's opinion, the point I was trying to make is that his is ONE OPINION. He didn't think the book was good. Other people quite obviously felt OTHERWISE, and lots of them were writers too! So what!?

The fact remains is that we are free to express our opinions! You didn't like the book, fine...totally your choice. Other people, including myself think it is a fine book. It is not necessary to agree about this.

You know, I am just going to limit myself to playing forum games from now on, because this type of stuff just irritates me way too much. I am not blaming you, Turk, I am blaming myself. I have gotten to the point where I don't even want to read any more serious threads.

[Turk]

So do you think an uneducated Tibetian farmer's opinion is as important and accurate as Capote's opinion?

Well, you had to understand i didn't literally mean it. But from your words;


Capote's opinion is one opinion. As is your's and mine.

it sounds like you saying an artist's opinion has no difference than a random person.

Anyway, enough Capote. I repeat it for the last time; and this time it's just my opinion; i've read many novels and TKAM could be a nice children book, but compared to novels such as Brothers Karamazov, Crime and Punishment, Grapes of Wrath or In Search of Lost Time it's structuraly really weak. Also if Harper Lee had that quality she would be able to write at least a second important piece of work. I still say it's structuraly weak novel although it's fun to read.

[kenikki]

Wow, I never knew there would be a full blow argument over TKAM! It is a good novel not great but good with an amazing range of literary devices,so should be applauded for that alone.


The fact remains is that we are free to express our opinions! You didn't like the book, fine...totally your choice. Other people, including myself think it is a fine book. It is not necessary to agree about this.

You know, I am just going to limit myself to playing forum games from now on, because this type of stuff just irritates me way too much. I am not blaming you, Turk, I am blaming myself. I have gotten to the point where I don't even want to read any more serious threads.

I am sorry to hear that you feel that way about your opinions kathy :( But you do raise some valid points that will noted by everyone who reads the post, especially me as I am feeling strongly about this book as I have just read it. :D

[kathycf]

it sounds like you saying an artist's opinion has no difference than a random person.


No. That isn't what I was saying. Many other people including other writers liked the book...Truman Capote is one who didn't. His opinion isn't any more or less valid than any other writer who holds an opinion of Lee's book.

I did state this earlier in another post, so obviously not talking about some random person...and random is not the same as being uneducated, so it was quite puzzling why you bring up some example involving an uneducated person.



Many other writers thought highly of Lee's book.

You know, sometimes it is easy to misunderstand what is posted. There are limitations to this type of communication. I tend to think if we were sitting face to face over a cup of coffee, we would get our points across clearer to each other. While I love this forum, it has disadvantages to it in the sense that the communication doesn't take place like a conversation and there is no body language or facial expressions to help with meaning and context.

Is the book perfect? Nope, I never said so. Is is a good book? Yes, I think so, other people do too and apparently in 1961 some other NOT random people thought so too. You seem to be making an assumption that the jury who judged the book were some schmucks who didn't know jack about writing, weren't writers... and that just isn't true. I can't name who was on the board back in 1961 because I wasn't born then, but these are the people who are on it now: http://www.pulitzer.org/CurrentBoard/CurrentBoard.html They look like they have some "adequate" qualifications. :)

kenikki, not an argument going on, but thanks for your statement. I just get quite frustrated when I feel my opinion is being disrespected. It really isn't just about the literary value of TKAM, but about a deeper issue as well. I simply get too stressed out.

[ennison]

Capote (Lee's inspiration for Dill) has not written anything as good as Lee's novel. I don't know what he said about it but it's possible that jealousy could be a factor in his comment if he said it was not well structured. Lee has been silent about her work and some people have even suggested that Capote had a large hand in the writing of her novel. I don't believe that

[Turk]

That's clear Capote didn't write TKAM. Because his style is so much different than TKAM's style. TKAM is a really nice book, because it's written so frankly. But structure is weak, some parts of novel are just looking like written to fill pages and many events are unrelated. So there's no real flow in novel. Personally i think Capote is a better writer than Lee at least he proved himself with more than only one book.

[ennison]

Tell me an unrelated event.

[Turk]

I am getting the book.

Here; one of most significants; part 11.

[ennison]

Part 11 is about the trial which has been mentioned throughout part one. It is the culmination of Lee's key commentary on the reality of prejudice.

[ennison]

I feel we have different concepts of what constitutes structure. There is nothing random in Lee's choice of childhood pictures. Even Scout's first day at school is tied into the theme of developing empathy for others. In this case the new teacher who does not know the community. The minor characters are used to deepen the characterisation of the children growing from a state of ignorance to a condition of experience.

[Turk]

In my book it's about Ms. Dubose. That old hag, you know who died at the end of the part.
Anyway i also posted another post before this; but i think we posted our posts in exactly same second; so my post isn't here. I basically said; the book is good; technic is weak. And compared to true masterpieces of art of novel this seems quite average; not more than that.

[Turk]

Yeah, of course it has to tell something. I am pointing that since i've said it's structuraly weak and relatively easy book to write. Just pick a random time from childhood and write a short story; kinda related to other stories in the book; but when you look for a flow in other parts in book; it just randomly starts telling that. That's why i am telling it's like a collection of short stories concentrated on one subject. I said many times and saying it again; i am not telling it's a bad book and doesn't worth reading. In fact i would recommend that book for children and teenagers especially. But if you compare it with true masterpieces of art of novel, then it's just average.

Technic of book also reminds me Selam Lagerloff's "Searching For Happiness".

Heheh...:) Sehrazad sent it to me.

[ennison]

'the old hag' is a woman in constant pain trying to kick a dependence on the drugs that have allowed her to function at all. Her significance is partly in Lee's exploration of what constitutes courage. Atticus hopes his son has learned a lesson about bravery from the experience of being sent to read to the dying woman. Lee's handling of the end of that section is very well done indeed for she does not tell us what Jem is thinking but it is implied that he is having second thoughts about a neighbour whom he'd seen only as a vituperative provocative old woman. This is connected to the themes of courage and of empathy.

[Turk]

Yeah that old hag. Don't be defensive, all in all it's just an imaginary character.:lol: Anyway, i told my opinion and i don't think just writing few stories about a common theme doesn't makes a novel. That's all, i am obviously thinking different than you.

[ennison]

I've tried to indicate that these are not randomly selected events but are all tied together by theme, by characterisation, by setting. Lee wrote a very well structured novel. Guess it would take a lot more than me to convince you of that.

[ilyana]

My name is Ilyana and I'm a grade ten student. My final is quickly approaching and this year's essay topic for the English final is to discuss the theme of loss of innocence in literature we have studied this year. I've chosen "To Kill A Mockingbird" as the literature in question and have chosen to write about Scout, Jem and Boo Radley. Below, I wrote down (very briefly) some of the material I've already gathered but would greatly appreciate it if someone could help me further, especially in regards to Boo Radley.

Scout:
> Experiences the fact that adults lie (Uncle Jack)
> Learns from Aunt Alexandra to leave behind her tomboy ways and act more lady-like
> The trial
> The attack on Jem and her by Bob Ewell

Jem:
> Is constantly surrounded by adult situations
> Mrs Dubose's morphine addiction
> The trial
> The attack on Scout and him by Bob Ewell
> Boo Radley

Boo:
> Too sensitive for the conservative town of Maycomb
> A symbol and somewhat epitome of loss of innocence rather than a character

[Turk]

I think Boo Radley is symbol of meaninglessness of prejudices rather than loss of innocence.

[BroadwayBaby]

the mockingbird also, in a way, represents innocence, kind of the whole they don't do anything but make people happy, innocence, and then the accusation symbolism, that goes with it because these people are innocent of the accusations, and it kinda sorta represents, that these prematurely judged people give the world joy, but in subtle ways, and if you kill their individuality then you are going to be sinning