Opposites

[linz]

This world and universe is filled with opposites, from matter to anti-matter, happy to sad, from physical labor to mental labor, to black to white, to Christ to Anti-Christ, when does it end? Do we find the spirit of God with in us, going from 'destruction to making' or 'from something to its opposite' from here to eternity forever and ever; After all, even Einstein believed in God?

[Lote-Tree]

This world and universe is filled with opposites, from matter to anti-matter, happy to sad, from physical labor to mental labor, to black to white, to Christ to Anti-Christ, when does it end? Do we find the spirit of God with in us, going from 'destruction to making' or 'from something to its opposite' from here to eternity forever and ever; After all, even Einstein believed in God?

Linz, sorry I was unable to respond to your "Christ Debate" thread - it was closed :-(

If you are interested we can continue via PM? This way no will get offended - except you and I off course :-) but I don't get offended and if you do, you can always block me from your mailing list :-)

We can start with this Duality of Nature :-) Interesting topic...PM if you are interested :-)

Regards,
Lote.

[Pelican King]

Is the world really full of opposites? Just because two colours appear complete opposites to us, does that make them essentially opposite? As for the likes of happiness and sadness, good and evil Nietzsche's argued thoroughly that they are no dichotomy. I believe the distinctions between opposites are just practical catagorisations made so people can get by everyday. People can remember data easier when they can contrast it with other information. The world just is. And a lot of troubles occurred by trying to define objective opposites in reality.

Do we find the spirit of God with in us, going from 'destruction to making' or 'from something to its opposite' from here to eternity forever and ever; After all, even Einstein believed in God?
Interesting idea. I don't think we find a literal spirit of God in acts of creation, bringing things out of nothingness into being, but i believe we find a psychological power in creating. Again to use Nietzsche he argues this with the 'will to power'.
Also, Einstein was a pantheist/deist. Someone who believed there may be an all-powerful Being but this entity wouldn't be personal.

[NikolaiI]

Here's a very interesting, short youtube video that addresses that called Something and Nothing. I think I agree with it. http://youtube.com/watch?v=mh0PuT46wgI

[weepingforloman]

Is the world really full of opposites? Just because two colours appear complete opposites to us, does that make them essentially opposite? As for the likes of happiness and sadness, good and evil Nietzsche's argued thoroughly that they are no dichotomy. I believe the distinctions between opposites are just practical catagorisations made so people can get by everyday. People can remember data easier when they can contrast it with other information. The world just is. And a lot of troubles occurred by trying to define objective opposites in reality.

Interesting idea. I don't think we find a literal spirit of God in acts of creation, bringing things out of nothingness into being, but i believe we find a psychological power in creating. Again to use Nietzsche he argues this with the 'will to power'.
Also, Einstein was a pantheist/deist. Someone who believed there may be an all-powerful Being but this entity wouldn't be personal.

Please make an argument, do not rely on Nietzsche's non-existent authority with most people.

[Redzeppelin]

I believe the distinctions between opposites are just practical catagorisations made so people can get by everyday. People can remember data easier when they can contrast it with other information. The world just is. And a lot of troubles occurred by trying to define objective opposites in reality.

Interesting metaphysical sentiments - how do they play out in your day to day life? If there really is no difference, if opposites are merely conventional constructs created to simplify existence, then tell me - do you prefer being happy or sad? Do you prefer pleasure or suffering? Do you prefer the beach or the mountains? The minute you choose one, I get to ask you "Why?" if there really is no difference between the two.

Second, what exactly does the statement "The world just is" really mean? Yes, it exists - but it exists in a certain way, under certain conditions and with certain characteristics. What do you mean, it "just is"?

[Midas]

There is no reason why one should question the word 'opposite' anymore that any other word that language has brought forth to aid communication within that context.

The use of all words is for one purpose only - to convey meaning and consequently understanding when communicating.

We use 'opposite', 'anti', 'the same', or similar, for example, when that word conveys the meaning we intend.

To set a standard of reference we have dictionaries where a word meaning is defined. If we wish to communicate intelligently, and successfully, we use words that are referenced in an accepted dictionary, or one that may not yet be included in the dictionary but is in common use, or in use within a particular social, or professional group with whom we are communicating.

The word 'opposite' is certainly in the dictionary, and it is in common use, and has been for many centuries.
The word 'antonym' is from the Greek word 'anti' (opposite) and 'onoma' (name)

When using any word, always ensure it is one that will be understood and will convey the meaning you intend. Often to analyse can be to paralyse - something to be avoided in communication which should be lucid and flow freely.


Of course, some may disagree and hold an 'opposite' or 'opposing' view to mine. But, because I made a point of using words with which you should all be familiar, you should, at least, have understood the point being made.

[Mr. Dr. Ralph]

Is the world really full of opposites? Just because two colours appear complete opposites to us, does that make them essentially opposite? As for the likes of happiness and sadness, good and evil Nietzsche's argued thoroughly that they are no dichotomy. I believe the distinctions between opposites are just practical catagorisations made so people can get by everyday. People can remember data easier when they can contrast it with other information. The world just is. And a lot of troubles occurred by trying to define objective opposites in reality.

Interesting idea. I don't think we find a literal spirit of God in acts of creation, bringing things out of nothingness into being, but i believe we find a psychological power in creating. Again to use Nietzsche he argues this with the 'will to power'.
Also, Einstein was a pantheist/deist. Someone who believed there may be an all-powerful Being but this entity wouldn't be personal.

Agreed.

To claim there are opposite colors, or in fact, opposite anything, is neglecting the physical phenomena that mandates thought. Perception of anything is unquestionably formed from sense data and its interpretation. Consider the difference between black and white...one surface absorbs all visible light while the other reflects. These colors are not inherently opposite, but rather the total lack or presence of all visible light frequencies. All that can truly be said of the differences of color is that there are differences between the natural frequency of particular atoms, and perhaps interference between particular frequencies (as shown by mixing colors to form new ones).

Similar explanations can be formed for any opposite derived from senses. Perception of hot and cold are differences in the surface's energy transfer to your skin, loud and soft can be explained by mechanical wave amplitude, rough or smooth is a result of how atoms are arranged on an object's surface, etc. It is very much certain that all opposites are not opposite in themselves, rather, in superficial interpretation of physical phenomena. Furthermore, the notion of opposites existing in abstract ideas (such as good and bad, bravery and cowardice, etc) is also feigned, for those are ultimately manifested in physical events when thought about.

To answer the original post directly, the spirit of God is hardly necessary for discerning between something and its opposite, or from creation to destruction; these ultimately rely on physics, not spirit.

And what a peeve it is to see theists blurt that Einstein believed in God! God does not automatically entail Christianity...

"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." (Brian 1996, p. 127) - Albert Einstein

[XY&Z]

The world itself needs balance - those oppositions exist because of that balance.
Imagine world so dull, so same and boring. What would you have then?
What is the challenge without opposition? What do you fight for?

[Mr. Dr. Ralph]

The world itself needs balance - those oppositions exist because of that balance.
Imagine world so dull, so same and boring. What would you have then?
What is the challenge without opposition? What do you fight for?

Aw yeah I forgot that, nice call bro...

[Orionsbelt]

I think Kant made the observation that it is people who create opposites. As was mentioned, we perceive only contrast. Truly, this is a fun thing to think about. In a universe that is millions of light years across what does "up" mean?

[NikolaiI]

True, here in this room up and down are relative constructs, but out in intersteller space they don't mean anything. Kant may have made that observation but it had been around for thousands of years before him. A good book on the subject is no boundary by ken wilber.

[weepingforloman]

Up and down rely on reference points. So, in space, you could say that "up" is towards the sun. But opposites are still real. Just not everything has one.

[Mr. Dr. Ralph]

Up and down rely on reference points. So, in space, you could say that "up" is towards the sun. But opposites are still real. Just not everything has one.

"okay"

[NikolaiI]

"The principle is that all dualities and opposites are not disjoined but polar; they do not encounter and confront one another from afar; they exfoliate from a common center. Ordinary thinking conceals polarity and relativity because it employs terms, the terminals or ends, the poles, neglecting what lies between them. The difference of front and back, to be and not to be, hides their unity and mutuality."

From "The Joyous Cosmology," by Alan Watts.

And if you consider the word contrast instead of opposite, it changes the question a little. Perception is of contrasts; figure and ground, light and shadow, clear and vague, firm and weak, as Watts says.

Why would you think that up was towards the sun? Wouldn't that, if anything, be down?

[tudwell]

I'd never really thought about this before, but I don't think opposites exist. If they do, I can't think of any.

A lot of people use light and dark, but I don't believe those are opposites. Dark is merely the absence of light. If I went over to my bookshelf and took out a book, do I now have the opposite of a book in its place? No, I just don't have a book. If I pour out the water from my glass, it doesn't fill up with anti-water. Light and dark, something and nothing - one is only the absence of the other. If that's how you define an opposite, then sure there are opposites. But they're not opposites as I know them.

[NikolaiI]

Well, the big one we are always debating is good and bad. How about up and down?

You have a good point about light and dark, and existence and non-existence. I don't think they are opposites either. They're contrasts.

But I'm interested, what do you think about good and bad? And what would you say about self and other?

[the silent x]

good and bad is just a matter of persecptive, if your a kid of a wealthy family, you see a man steal a loaf of bread and you say the man is bad. but the man may not be bad if his family hasn't eaten in three days adn they can't afford the bread

[NikolaiI]

haha possession is a load of crap. what claim have i over anything? everything should be shared.

[tudwell]

Yeah, on further thought, I guess some opposites do exist. Like black and white. Black is a color that absorbs all frequencies of light. White is a color that reflects all frequencies of light. Assuming that the only thing any color can do is either absorb or reflect light, they are complete opposites.

But good and bad, well, what do those even mean? Those are terms created by humans deliberately as opposites. They are opposites by definition. But they aren't real-world objects, they are just philosophical concepts. There's no objective way to say if they exist at all. It's all semantics when it comes to good and bad.

Self and other is a little bit different. I can't really say if they're opposites. Assuming everyone has a 'self', then there really is no 'other', just a multitude of 'selfs' that aren't yours. I guess that's the definition of 'other', though. So whatever. I'm not much of a philosopher. :)

[blazeofglory]

The World Is What Is And Has Little To Do With What We Think About It. It Is What It Is, And We Unnecessarily Rationalize It Or It Is Laden Foolishly With Our Ideas. Ideas Are Ideas, Something That Has To Do With Conditioning.

The World Was There Before Scientists Discovered It And Of Course Previous To How Philosophers Understood Or Rationalized It. OPPOSITES ?

OPPOSITES ARE NOT REALITIES ONCE WE ARRIVE AT THE ORIGIN OF THEM.

DAYS AND NIGHTS ARE OPPOSITES BUT THE SUN IS THE SOURCE OF THE OPPOSITES.

[jgweed]

We sometimes use the picture of the logical opposites of A and not-A to think about other kinds of opposites; but this can lead to confusion, for example when we think of hot/cold. Now certainly everyone "knows" when the water is hot or when it is cold, but only at certain extremes; given that there can be many gradations in between the opposites, and differences in individual sensation, hot/cold exist more by convention than anything else.
Take for example, the statement "Green is bald." Now this is true if he has absolutely no hair on his head. But it is also true, at least in common speech, if he has (for example) 30 hairs on his head. As his hair line recedes, at precisely what point would we call him "bald?"
So it seems that many opposites exist by social or linguistic convention. The confusion only becomes worse when we ponder good/bad, or liberal/conservative.
Wittgenstein's argument that instead of polar concepts what we really have are family resemblances seems worth considering.

[blazeofglory]

Do not say they are contrasts, opposites, for each complements the other, and for that matter does not exist without the other.

All have their useful domains. Pains intensify joys. Nights heralds days. Sunshine and rains both exist side by side.