For those parents

[applepie]

I know being a parent you love your kids, no matter what, but do you ever have those days, though, where everything goes wrong and you wonder how different things could have been? Do you ever wonder what happened to the hours in the day reserved for your own solitary moments? This has been one of those days. If you've read my intro or anything you know I have two kids and moments of solitude are few and far between but very coveted. My kids are great but they are tireing at best and feel like they are sucking the life out of you at the worst. My son is 4 and he fights with you about everything. I could say "Garrick, look at the blue sky" and he would argue it is blue and white or that it is gray. He's a great kid, extreamly bright but if you have a really smart kid you know what a challenge it can be. Now try smart and sweet, combined with stubborness and a tendency to whine. You have my son. It is the middle of the night and rather than getting up to go to the potty he sits in his room whining quietly hoping someone may hear him. I did but by the time I make it back there, he is crouching on his bed going pee. What a great evening for me. So much for wine and relaxation. It turned into bathing and washing sheets and clothes. Now I'm back trying to relax with my wine and writing in this forum, but dang if my mood and concentration aren't shot. Now I'm thinking of tomorrow and a day of arguing and constantly catching my 9 month old daughter as she tries to get into everything. Like I said, not too bad at all, and I love my kids but I really miss that personal time of solitude. If you don't have kids you take it for granted, but it is sorely missed after the fact. On that note, I'll finish my glass of wine and see about getting my garbage out for tomorrow. Maybe some music and the wine will get me in the mellow mood where my muse is running free. I was really looking foward to some time to just read or write, or even just pick up my sketch book. It may be waiting another night.

[Bii]

I can completely sympathise - I found with both my children that it was when they were over 3 that I started to get my life back, and could start doing things I wanted to do, instead of just running round after them all the time.

It does get easier, eventually, you kind of have to accept that perhaps, for now, you just have to bottle it up, help your kids become more independent, and eventually it will work itself out. It's frustrating though.

Re the arrgumentative 4 year old - I can relate! My son is very bright and inquisitive and questioning. I found that asking questions back helps to get a bit of perspective i.e. if you say 'isn't that a great blue sky' and he says 'it's blue and white' then ask him a question about the blue and white bits, or if he say's it's grey ask him why he thinks you see blue and he see's grey - key is to give him something to think about rather than it turning into a battle of wills ('cos you'll lose - I always do!). He's probably trying to impress you if (as I'm guessing) your him Mum. Boys generally crave their mother's attention, particularly when they're young.

Hope you can work it out.

[kiobe]

I know being a parent you love your kids, no matter what, but do you ever have those days, though, where everything goes wrong and you wonder how different things could have been? Do you ever wonder what happened to the hours in the day reserved for your own solitary moments? This has been one of those days. If you've read my intro or anything you know I have two kids and moments of solitude are few and far between but very coveted. My kids are great but they are tireing at best and feel like they are sucking the life out of you at the worst. My son is 4 and he fights with you about everything. I could say "Garrick, look at the blue sky" and he would argue it is blue and white or that it is gray. He's a great kid, extreamly bright but if you have a really smart kid you know what a challenge it can be. Now try smart and sweet, combined with stubborness and a tendency to whine. You have my son. It is the middle of the night and rather than getting up to go to the potty he sits in his room whining quietly hoping someone may hear him. I did but by the time I make it back there, he is crouching on his bed going pee. What a great evening for me. So much for wine and relaxation. It turned into bathing and washing sheets and clothes. Now I'm back trying to relax with my wine and writing in this forum, but dang if my mood and concentration aren't shot. Now I'm thinking of tomorrow and a day of arguing and constantly catching my 9 month old daughter as she tries to get into everything. Like I said, not too bad at all, and I love my kids but I really miss that personal time of solitude. If you don't have kids you take it for granted, but it is sorely missed after the fact. On that note, I'll finish my glass of wine and see about getting my garbage out for tomorrow. Maybe some music and the wine will get me in the mellow mood where my muse is running free. I was really looking foward to some time to just read or write, or even just pick up my sketch book. It may be waiting another night.

Hi mkh, I was cracking up reading your post, not because of your misfortune but because I too am a parent and can relate to every letter in every word. It does get better as time goes on but the personality traits that they have that bother you can change if you really work on them. I would strongly suggest reading any and all books about behavoural modification in kids and any parenting books. My wife and I found a ton of things that worked really well and our son, who used to be very impulsive and energetic, now just out of the 7th grade with a 4.0 grade average after taking all advanced classes and recieved the student of the semester in a school with 1200 students. Enough bragging. There was one nugget of information that has continued to work. Kids will continue to test you as a parent at every moment, you must show them with words and actions that thier testing does not work on you. Are you a stay at home mom? If so, play dates traded with other parents will give you time for yourself. You have to get your 4 year old into something like tuesdays at the park or fridays at the pool. Schedule, schedule, schedule, then while he plays you can get out and relax a little. Swimming lessons, a visit to the pet store etc....Your 9 month old is another story. Ya know it wouldn't be the end of the world if you got a babby sitter for 2 hours, two or three days a week so you could just go and look in a bookstore or see a movie or shop. Childcare burnout can and does happen to parents too, don't feel guilty about it.

[applepie]

Thanks for the advice. I'm a sort of stay at home mom. I work on the weekends, and I'm home during the week. I'm also going to college, finishing off my degree, so that is another chunk of time gone. Lets just say yesterday was a really bad day. My son is just four, I know it, but it is definately not my favorite age. He is in the showing off stage and arguing. His main thing to do is that you warn him of the consequences of his actions but he keeps on every time. You then have a fight when he reaps the punishment. I've resigned myself to the personality trait of uncompromising stubborness. It goes through the family. My grandfather had it, so did my dad, and even my sister. We have about one or two a generation that are just beyond stubborn. The real problem is the whining, but we are working hard to resolve the issue. I read a really good parenting book called Bringing up Boys that was a big help. Any suggestions on some other good ones? As for my daughter, I would love to drop her with a sitter once or twice a week, but this being a military town it isn't too easy. There are no sitting slots for kids under the age of two. So, I just take my son twice a week to give us both a break. We both need the time from the other. I am really looking foward to moving back home to Ohio where there will be family to help out once in a while. Out here in Washington we really don't have anyone when we need a break.



Re the arrgumentative 4 year old - I can relate! My son is very bright and inquisitive and questioning. I found that asking questions back helps to get a bit of perspective i.e. if you say 'isn't that a great blue sky' and he says 'it's blue and white' then ask him a question about the blue and white bits, or if he say's it's grey ask him why he thinks you see blue and he see's grey - key is to give him something to think about rather than it turning into a battle of wills ('cos you'll lose - I always do!). He's probably trying to impress you if (as I'm guessing) your him Mum. Boys generally crave their mother's attention, particularly when they're young.



We are really in the showing off 4 year old stage. He will misbehave showing off for his dad and even myself. We are working to direct it into positive things. Often I will ask him to do one of his 100 piece puzzles when he is in that kind of a mood. I always try to give him a positive, and non-destructive way, to show me what he can do. The arguing is a little different. That is just contrary. He will ask for one thing, be told he is allowed to have it, then argue that he wants something else. My favorite is when he keeps on with misbehavior after his warning of punishment and then argue that he doesn't wish to stand in the corner. It ends up being a clash of wills. I win but nomally at the cost of my good mood. The only reason he doen't win is because I saw how much worse his behavior became when he was wearing me down. Now I hold out no matter what, but it runs in cycles. Some of the time he is a joy for weeks, but then you will have a month or two where he pushes his limits every minute of the day. We're back in one of those cycles.

[kiobe]

We are really in the showing off 4 year old stage. He will misbehave showing off for his dad and even myself. We are working to direct it into positive things. Often I will ask him to do one of his 100 piece puzzles when he is in that kind of a mood. I always try to give him a positive, and non-destructive way, to show me what he can do. The arguing is a little different. That is just contrary. He will ask for one thing, be told he is allowed to have it, then argue that he wants something else. My favorite is when he keeps on with misbehavior after his warning of punishment and then argue that he doesn't wish to stand in the corner. It ends up being a clash of wills. I win but nomally at the cost of my good mood. The only reason he doen't win is because I saw how much worse his behavior became when he was wearing me down. Now I hold out no matter what, but it runs in cycles. Some of the time he is a joy for weeks, but then you will have a month or two where he pushes his limits every minute of the day. We're back in one of those cycles.

Test of wills. Man is that not the truth. And that is exactly what it is all about. Try talking to him and treating him just as you would an adult. Ya know like, is jumping on the furniture acceptable for an adult? Why is it ok for him. When my son would act up I would just calmly walk over to him and in a very deep voice say "what are you doing"? and wait for an acceptable reply. And then I would tell him what I see him doing, again calmly and deeply. "you are acting in an unacceptable manner". Stair at him, directly in his eyes, don't blink, don't waiver. If he runs off, don't chase him, it's not a game so don't make it into one. He sounds like he has smarts beyond his age so treat him beyond his age. Just because your family has members in it that are stubborn doesn't mean your son has to follow the behaviour. In saying that, you are, in your mind, giving up on ever getting him to change. Argumentitive behavour may hamper his ability later on to make long time friends. Just as you don't like it, you can't expect others to put up with it either. The very good news is that he is still very young and plyable. Keep working on it, don't give up, the hard work you are doing now will pay off in the future. And get out once and while.

[BlueSkyGB]

Chin up...Keep on Smilin'......
take advice that you think can work for you and go from there....sometimes that is the best you can do.....
And if you do the very best......
after they are grown.....they'll move back in with you....yikes.....:D :lol: :) :lol:
Speaking from experience...:)

[sam96]

Mkh,I don't know about being a parent i'm still far away from that.But,I think ur kids will get a lot easier once they grow up and turn the "guilty kids side" like me.I know about that no time for yourself thing.So,i went up to my mum. "mum,R u happy u got me :D ?!!"
"Haaaaaaaaa......"
Anyway,I sure hope it gets easier for u :).

[BibliophileTRJ]

This thread is starting to sound like an advertisment for birth control.

I'm sure the rewards of parenting far outweigh the trials and tribulations, but it's stuff like this that makes me glad I'm gay and will never be "blessed" with children.

Don't listen to me... as a childless person I have no right to post in this thread.

***EDIT***

I should add that those who do take on the task of parenting earn my respect and admiration. (especially now that corporal punishment is now banned in most places)

[BlueSkyGB]

This thread is starting to sound like an advertisment for birth control.

I'm sure the rewards of parenting far outweigh the trials and tribulations, but it's stuff like this that makes me glad I'm gay and will never be "blessed" with children.

Don't listen to me... as a childless person I have no right to post in this thread.

Sometimes another point of view helps.......:)

[applepie]

Try talking to him and treating him just as you would an adult. Ya know like, is jumping on the furniture acceptable for an adult? Why is it ok for him. When my son would act up I would just calmly walk over to him and in a very deep voice say "what are you doing"? and wait for an acceptable reply. And then I would tell him what I see him doing, again calmly and deeply. "you are acting in an unacceptable manner". Stair at him, directly in his eyes, don't blink, don't waiver. If he runs off, don't chase him, it's not a game so don't make it into one.

Did this really work? I've tried it, but all I seem to get is a teaful "I don't know". I've been using many of the suggestions you have put foward and he is getting better. It just seems like every day is a battle. If it has worked for someone else, though, at least there is real hope. I really have been at the point of resigning myself to the fact that life will be one big argument. I will keep working hard to make sure it doesn't happen. Thanks for the encouragement.


Mkh,I don't know about being a parent i'm still far away from that.But,I think ur kids will get a lot easier once they grow up and turn the "guilty kids side" like me.I know about that no time for yourself thing.So,i went up to my mum. "mum,R u happy u got me :D ?!!"
"Haaaaaaaaa......"
Anyway,I sure hope it gets easier for u :).

I'm sure you mom told you she was. Raising kids is really hard work much harder than I though it would be, but I'm sure every parent who has posted here will tell you it is well worth it. Even if things don't go as planned or you have a child who knows how to push all the right buttons to make you detonate like a nuclear bomb. Last night was a bad night, but there are so many great things too. There is nothing like reading to my son each night or having him give me a kiss and say "I love you mommy" for no apparent reason. I love watching my little girl learn somthing new and seeing how proud of herself she is when she does something all on her own. The rough patches are easier to post about because I could write a book about the great parts. That and I'm not normally wondering if anyone has good advice about the best parts:D


Chin up...Keep on Smilin'......
take advice that you think can work for you and go from there....sometimes that is the best you can do.....
And if you do the very best......
after they are grown.....they'll move back in with you....yikes.....:D :lol: :) :lol:
Speaking from experience...:)

I intend to. Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I think I really was having one of those moments where you need someone to give a good kick and tell you not to give up. I will be sure to implement a few new things in my home, and keep sticking to the old. Things seem to be changing, slowly, but changing. It is good to know that it is possible and I don't have to subject my kids to arguments like those I witnessed growing up. I don't want to fight every day and it is nice to hear someone else say it can be changed, rather than the typical "some of our family are just like that". So thank you all very much.

[kiobe]

Did this really work? I've tried it, but all I seem to get is a teaful "I don't know". I've been using many of the suggestions you have put foward and he is getting better. It just seems like every day is a battle. If it has worked for someone else, though, at least there is real hope. I really have been at the point of resigning myself to the fact that life will be one big argument. I will keep working hard to make sure it doesn't happen. Thanks for the encouragement.

Oh man you broke through. That's the spot where you take the lead. When he says, "I don't know" that's where you continue to counsel him as you would an adult, in a manner that a 4 year old can understand. He really doesn't know, help him to figure it out with a real grown up conversation about why he needs attention in THAT manner. Now to make things more confusing, be careful about praise too. Too much of that and he may become addicted to it and become a butt kisser. No finger pointing here but we must look into ourselves too.
A little story. There was a kid at my son's after school care that was out of control. He would attack kids from the back and throw them to the ground and then pounce on them. He would grab two girls at a time in a head lock and run them down the hallway and smash them into the door. He was smiling all the time. He was just crazy. As it turned out, he and his dad would watch the WWF wrestling shows together and wrestle without abandon. The little boy didn't know what was acceptable behavour was because his dad wasn't sure either. As much as kids rebel they really want boundries and have a very hard time dealing with life without them. If I could give any advice it would be, always be calm but stern when shutting down bad behavour. Don't use more than 7 words and wait for an acceptable reply, even if you have to wait 5 minutes. Use the word "we". We don't do that. We don't act that way. Never, ever let him "win" a conflict where he is in the wrong. Always appologise when you are in the wrong. Later, talk about how much fun you had doing something when he was being good, only leave out the being good part, let him figure it out for himself. Ok, tough question here. Is you husband able to help you? Everyone needs help. Ya know the wierd thing is before you know it, the kids are begining to seek thier friends more than thier parents and then we have to deal with not being the center of thier universe. You'll do fine. PM me if you need to. Kiobe

[applepie]

Ok, tough question here. Is you husband able to help you?

He helps, but not always as he should. Some of the constant disrespectful behavior is a direct result of his attitudes. My husband is only joking when he say "learn your place woman", if he wasn't we would never get along, but my son doesn't know it. I have to constantly remind him that he can't be jokingly disrespectful, but he doesn't always get it. We may have to have a discussion about it again. Or maybe a big fight, I'm deciding that right now;) . I go through the same stuff all the time. He just doesn't think about the effect it has since it doesn't really impact him.
At the moment he is on 3rd shift so he has maybe a good hour with the kids in the morning and maybe another later in the day before they go to bed. I really think half the trouble is his schedule being changed. He spent more than a year on day shift, and then one day his command just told him he was going to 3rd sift for a week. Well, that one week has turned into three or four. Wouldn't be so bad, but since he isn't awake to help in the evening and do as much with our son it is making things crazy. I can really get whey things have been going crazy. Add on that I'm in the start of a new term of college after 4 weeks off and I have an unhappy little boy. This happens every time I have a break, now that I really think about it, but it must be worse since his dad's schedule changed too.

[motherhubbard]

I am so sorry to hear that you’ve had a rough day, and from the sound of it a rough month since your husband has been on a bad shift. I know how hard it can be. I’m a stay home mother of four and a full time college student as well. Since I’m home the world can count on me to be here to watch their children. We had seven today and it’s not unusual to have nine. When I add in my other activities (we have a farm and I volunteer with three different organizations on a regular basis) it is a very full life. You should know that having two children is possibly the hardest. It would seam that it’s harder to have more but that’s just not true. Our day runs much smoother whit eight kids that it ever did with two. I don’t want to give any parenting advice, but there are some very practical things that make the difference for our family and I will share them with you.

I don’t argue. I make rules and enforce them. I give choices so consequences are really not my fault. When I have to punish I tell my kid something like ‘Oh, I really hate that for you. It’s such a shame that you can’t watch a video. Man you really wanted to, too. That really stinks. Boy, I sure do wish you had cleaned your room so you could have watched that video. I hope you make a better decision next time.’ See, not my fault and you can’t even blame me for being mean. Also, I don’t listen to whining- I just can’t hear it- it doesn’t go in my ears. I rarely have to punish, but when I do its awful. My kids have to scrub baseboards, pick up rocks, and clean the fridge; really I have a very long list. They don’t get board either, or it’s the list.

I hate to say that it gets easier, but it changes and you can go to the bathroom alone. I would rather deal with a toddler’s tantrum than a teen’s. When you are discouraged just remember that it’s only long when you’re going through it. Once you’re looking back it will have just lasted a week or two. It’s all about sequencing. You can have it all, but not all at once.

[applepie]

I am so sorry to hear that you’ve had a rough day, and from the sound of it a rough month since your husband has been on a bad shift. I know how hard it can be. I’m a stay home mother of four and a full time college student as well.

I've often heard that after two adding in more children doesn't really make too much of a difference. I've actually considered babysitting to help distract my son a little more, but I don't think I can with my two dogs. My puppy is a lab mix and just 1 1/2 years old. In Keeghan's case this just means I have a 100 lb puppy tearing through my house. He is good with my kids, but I don't trust him with other people's kids. If they run and he gives chase we have a problem. He's just trying to play, but the last thing I need is a parent irate over their child being hurt by my dog while they were playing. Plus I'm not sure more children around will help my situation much. More than anything there is a need for more time in the day to get everything done. It is a hard course this term since I am taking my final business class. It is a general business overview of strategic management :sick: and it is hard to look from all angles when I have spent the last year or so covering almost nothing but marketing.
We are working on the rules. Sometimes I feel as if I'm getting too strict, but it really seems to be helping some. I have basically adopted a no tolerance policy. He gets one warning, then he goes in the corner. Argument over time in the corner or a tantrum means he stands twice as long and time does not begin until he is standing there quietly with no more temper tantrums. Whining isn't tolerated in any circumstance. Whining about something means he is automatically sent to his room until he can settle down and talk in a reasonable tone. Garrick has a really bad whine that is worse than nails on a chalk board. After the last two weeks of fighting, though, today went really good. We are getting there but it is a long process and requires a serious effort to remain consistent. Yesterday was really bad, but I can say that today I'm positively dancing with the feeling of some sucess.

[motherhubbard]

I’m so happy to hear that you had a better day. You guys will get through this course and it will be so much better. I’ve noticed with my children that when I have a really hard course that requires extra from me they don’t really understand why I’m not giving them my attention the way they are accustomed to (I’ve been home for 12 years and they like to have me to themselves). So I started loving them up real good just before I sit down to study. We get up in the bed or something and we hug and kiss and squeeze and say all of the I love yous. I keep on until they’ve had enough and don’t want anymore attention and want to get away, then I can get some work done. Big hugs and kisses work on the older kids too. Even when my oldest acts like she’s grossed out by a love attack she smiles and her mood improves. I always try to do something that makes them feel warm so that they don’t turn into little demons when I need some time and they don’t want to share.

[kiobe]

He helps, but not always as he should. Some of the constant disrespectful behavior is a direct result of his attitudes. My husband is only joking when he say "learn your place woman", if he wasn't we would never get along, but my son doesn't know it. I have to constantly remind him that he can't be jokingly disrespectful, but he doesn't always get it. We may have to have a discussion about it again. Or maybe a big fight, I'm deciding that right now;) . I go through the same stuff all the time. He just doesn't think about the effect it has since it doesn't really impact him.
At the moment he is on 3rd shift so he has maybe a good hour with the kids in the morning and maybe another later in the day before they go to bed. I really think half the trouble is his schedule being changed. He spent more than a year on day shift, and then one day his command just told him he was going to 3rd sift for a week. Well, that one week has turned into three or four. Wouldn't be so bad, but since he isn't awake to help in the evening and do as much with our son it is making things crazy. I can really get whey things have been going crazy. Add on that I'm in the start of a new term of college after 4 weeks off and I have an unhappy little boy. This happens every time I have a break, now that I really think about it, but it must be worse since his dad's schedule changed too.

I am always amazed at how much stress the human body can endure. Both you and your husband have more on your plates than most people your age. Changing work shifts, two small children, going to school, running the home, all while far from home. The fact that you care so much about the future of your family says you care in 50 foot letters. Like the 100 piece puzzel you put together with your son, the pieces of your family, marriage, education and life together WILL come together in a great life. Give it time, talk with your husband and try to become a team with one mind and one goal. I have always thought that my job as a father is to raise a well adjusted, self reliant, decent member of society. It takes work and every day is different. Some are easy and some make a person want to catch the first plane to Mexico....... Alone. You sound like a great mom, now cut yourself a break and plan a two hour visit to a book store and just veg. Your husband sounds like a good person too, talk to him about the importance of all this and how much it means to you and the future of your family. This might be lame but, when all fails, cry. We men can't handle when the woman we love, cry.


I am so sorry to hear that you’ve had a rough day, and from the sound of it a rough month since your husband has been on a bad shift. I know how hard it can be. I’m a stay home mother of four and a full time college student as well. Since I’m home the world can count on me to be here to watch their children. We had seven today and it’s not unusual to have nine. When I add in my other activities (we have a farm and I volunteer with three different organizations on a regular basis) it is a very full life. You should know that having two children is possibly the hardest. It would seam that it’s harder to have more but that’s just not true. Our day runs much smoother whit eight kids that it ever did with two. I don’t want to give any parenting advice, but there are some very practical things that make the difference for our family and I will share them with you.

I don’t argue. I make rules and enforce them. I give choices so consequences are really not my fault. When I have to punish I tell my kid something like ‘Oh, I really hate that for you. It’s such a shame that you can’t watch a video. Man you really wanted to, too. That really stinks. Boy, I sure do wish you had cleaned your room so you could have watched that video. I hope you make a better decision next time.’ See, not my fault and you can’t even blame me for being mean. Also, I don’t listen to whining- I just can’t hear it- it doesn’t go in my ears. I rarely have to punish, but when I do its awful. My kids have to scrub baseboards, pick up rocks, and clean the fridge; really I have a very long list. They don’t get board either, or it’s the list.

I hate to say that it gets easier, but it changes and you can go to the bathroom alone. I would rather deal with a toddler’s tantrum than a teen’s. When you are discouraged just remember that it’s only long when you’re going through it. Once you’re looking back it will have just lasted a week or two. It’s all about sequencing. You can have it all, but not all at once.

YES!!! Here's a mom that has it figured out. All true!! Use rules like they are "another person" just as she has demonstrated. Personally, I wouldn't have cleaned the sheets in the middle of the night. Offer him a choice of sleeping on the floor of his room with a blanket or in the peed bed. Sorry, mom doesn't do laundry in the middle of the night. After all, he didn't have an accident, it was something he did to get negative attention. It is very important to offer him a choice and then let him deal with the results. That's the way we all learn.

[applepie]

when all fails, cry. We men can't handle when the woman we love, cry.



I'm not one to cry, but it happens once in a while. My trouble is that I wait until the house is totally quiet. The kids in bed, my husband at work and then I just have a total meltdown. If I do it in front of anyone I have a tendency to get angry that I'm having a meltdown in the first place and then there is no satisfying me. I've found my tears are normally more in temper anyway, and if I'm at that point it is much better for me to be alone so I'm not lashing out at everyone else. I'm not sure my husband would know what to do if I was crying for a reason other than the fact that I'm so mad I don't know what else to do with all that frustration.