Bilingualism.

[Elly_blue]

Hi :wave:
I've been doing some research about bilingualism. (children who are brought up with two different languages and learn these at the same time.) I was also raised bilingual (Bosnian and Dutch) and have read some articles about this. Studies have shown that this does not affect the intellectual development and in some cases can be an advantage. Sometimes I envy people who are monolingual, because I have the feeling I simply CAN'T get 100% out of both languages, because some words/phrases just sound better in one language and I tend to mix them. What do you guys think about this? Are there more pro's or con's? Anyone of you here bilingual?

[Video Drone]

The more languages you know, the better. If you are mixing them, perhaps you should pay your attention to a particular language more (if you wish to). I was bilingular too, Russian and Ukrainian, I never mix them up, but I cannot say that I know them both well. At the same time, all I need to do is read more books in Russian and Ukrainian, and that is the way I learned English, I read books. Books give you everything you need.

[SleepyWitch]

Hi :wave:
I've been doing some research about bilingualism. (children who are brought up with two different languages and learn these at the same time.) I was also raised bilingual (Bosnian and Dutch) and have read some articles about this. Studies have shown that this does not affect the intellectual development and in some cases can be an advantage. Sometimes I envy people who are monolingual, because I have the feeling I simply CAN'T get 100% out of both languages, because some words/phrases just sound better in one language and I tend to mix them. What do you guys think about this? Are there more pro's or con's? Anyone of you here bilingual?
in case you are worried that there's something wrong with you: nope, there isn't.
different languages carve up the world differently. some languages may express ideas that do not even exist in other languages. sometimes one language expresses a certain idea through a single word but another language uses more than one word (eg. a phrase or compound word) to express the same concept. for example, American English has absorbed the German words angst and gemutlichkeit because they didn't have these concepts . most slavic languages express a difference between perfective and imperfective by using different verbs. other languages don't know this difference.
this may be one the reasons some words/phrases just sound better to you in one of your 2 languages. it's perfectly natural :)

of course, it's a different matter if you use these phrases when talking to people who don't know that language :(

I'm not bilingual myself, but sometimes I use English words or constructions in German when I'm too lazy to think of the German word. (i only do this when I know that the person I'm talking to will understand me)

[vheissu]

Sometimes I envy people who are monolingual, because I have the feeling I simply CAN'T get 100% out of both languages, because some words/phrases just sound better in one language and I tend to mix them.

I think it can be both an advantage and a disadvantage knowing two or more languages and both or more being considered your first language.
What I find very surprising is that I don't have a 'local' accent in any of them! Everyone assumes, when I'm speaking, that I'm very fluent but can never tell where I'm from. Which is sometimes unnerving since most of the times, being bilingual or more also means you have more than one nationality.
And I can relate to the feeling of sometimes being jealous of monolinguals: I also feel that I'll never have a complete graps of the 3 languages I know. What really annoys me though, more than anything, is that while I'm speaking in one of them, my mind will just stop at one particular word that I want to say but just can't think of it. The irony of it is that I know what it is in the other two languages.....

[Niamh]

I was brought up learning both english and Irish. But because i use english everyday my Irish is now almost non exsistant. Because one was more dominantly used thant the other i lost my grasp. I'd really like to be able to speak Irish as well as i do English.

[Pensive]

No, I am not bilingual. But I can't see anything negative about it. It must be very useful!

[kratsayra]

As someone raised monolingual, I see very little advantage in it. But then again I've never had the experience of not feeling at home in English, so perhaps I'd feel differently if I knew what it was like not to have a truly "home" language.

I wish I had the opportunity to be exposed extensively to other language(s) when I was a child. I have been working on French since around age 11 or even earlier, and I am so terribly far away from being fluent, as far as I'm concerned. I can communicate, but it is not something I'm comfortable with. I am so envious of people who are seamlessly bi(tri, etc)-lingual. You are all amazing!!

[Elly_blue]

As for mixing up the words, I sometimes do that even if I can help it. Because it makes the conversation/written material look natural/fluent but there are times when it's better to avoid mixing the languages up and at those times, I am able to refrain myself from mixing them. As a matter of fact, my national language, Urdu, has already taken words from English and people speak those while talking in Urdu so it doesn't make much difference.

Yeah, whem I'm talking to my sister, we both mix the two languages, beacause it makes the conversation indeed more fluent.
Most of the things here mentioned, like mixing languages, not speeking with a certain accent when switching, being too lazy to think of a word and then just mix, all sound very familliar to me:p

[XY&Z]

Please forgive me, but would you be so kind to explain the difference between Bosnian and Serb-Croatian language - Elly blue and difference between Russian and Ukrainian language – Video Drone. For all I know, Bosnian and Serb-Croatia both use Latin alphabet and Russian and Ukrainian Cyrillic. And having them coming from same country, same culture. Is it just different accents or dialects? Can you understand someone who speaks Russian without really and officially knowing Russian?

[Pensive]

.....

[Elly_blue]

Please forgive me, but would you be so kind to explain the difference between Bosnian and Serb-Croatian language - Elly blue and difference between Russian and Ukrainian language – Video Drone. For all I know, Bosnian and Serb-Croatia both use Latin alphabet and Russian and Ukrainian Cyrillic. And having them coming from same country, same culture. Is it just different accents or dialects? Can you understand someone who speaks Russian without really and officially knowing Russian?

Well, before 1992 Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia were part of one country, Yugoslavia, with one official language, called Serbo-Croatian. After 1992 all these countries became independent. Every country then got it's own official language. They are for about 95% the same, except for specific pronounciation and local phrases/words, just like different dialects. Bosnian and Croatian use latin alphabet and Serbian Cyrillic.

[BlueSkyGB]

First language was Spanish, early childhood in Chile...moved back to the US with parents and had a rude awakening.....did not speak at all for a year, in school or at home.....have lost most of my Spanish now...can understand a bit but feel lost in the language...English is my primary now....but have been told I have no accent and the way I phrase things is not quite "right"...:D

[XY&Z]

Thanks for clarification Elly blue. :)
I always get confused with same country - different language situation.
As far as Duch language, I honestly thing that is one of the most unpleasant languages to the ear. It is combination of German, English and if I'm not mistaken French? When I was visiting Netherlands, I was happy - very happy - that everyone speaks English. :)
I understand, speak, read and write two languages, but honestly I would be lying if I say that I properly know either one of them. Sad but true. :(

[Taliesin]

difference between Russian and Ukrainian language

We speak neither but we believe that they are two different languages although quite closely related and speaker of one probably doesn't understand the other language much although we can't be certain. We just have that impression.

We personally are monolingual although we started learning English at a very early age (about six) and speak it quite fluently. Languages tend to stick better when you're young. At the moment we have also learnt german and french but don't speak them well.

[XY&Z]

Taliesin, who is WE?
Does anyone knows what is average life - length of one language?

[Elly_blue]

[QUOTE=XY&Z;390059]As far as Duch language, I honestly thing that is one of the most unpleasant languages to the ear. [QUOTE]

:lol: yeah, I've heard that statement before. When I say something in Dutch to people who don't know it, they say it sounds very rough and kind of arrogant. I think that is mainly because the pronounciation is a bit stange, concerning the letters -g and -s
German and Dutch have many simmilarities, but German just sounds a bit more ˝nicer˝.

[Video Drone]

and Russian and Ukrainian Cyrillic. And having them coming from same country, same culture. Is it just different accents or dialects? Can you understand someone who speaks Russian without really and officially knowing Russian?Ukrainian and Russian may use similar alphabets, but so do Latin and English, but you can't understand Latin, can't you?

They are very different. Ukrainian is a lot more subtle, it is considered the second most melodical language after Italian, actually... In any case, Russians who never knew Ukrainian have a lot of trouble understanding it. And if you learn Russian, you will not understand Ukrainian. There are some similar words between the two, but there are enough similar words between English and Latin, as well.

The best I can do is find a Russian song and then a Ukrainian song for you...

[XY&Z]

Ukrainian and Russian may use similar alphabets, but so do Latin and English, but you can't understand Latin, can't you?

With all due respect, I don’t find comparissment valid. With English and Latin, you are talking about huge time and geographical difference. When I said that Russian and Ukrainian both use Cyrillic, I thought maybe because they have same roots or something, and they are so close one to anothe(Counties, I mean).



The best I can do is find a Russian song and then a Ukrainian song for you...

If is not too much trouble for you, could you? Or at least small fragment of some text would do. But please, note translation to which language belongs too.


Many thanks. :)

[Video Drone]

It is certainly not a problem for me, I love promoting my country. :)

Well, I was replying to the argument of "The same alphabet". The thing is, it's not that they all came from Russian, it's more like they are all Slavic.

Same country? What the heck are you talking about? When was the last time you looked at the map of Eurasia, 1990?

If I take a can of food and it has text on it written in Russian, Ukrainian, and, say, Georgian. Well, I can't understand the Georgian. I can try to get a couple of words on that can, but that's it. And it's just a food can. Same with any other language. You can sort of guess some words in Spanish by knowing English. actiz-actress, car-carro, and there is a ton of these words like dificil, intelligente, repertir, decidir, etc. But you still can't speak Spanish. English and Spanish just use some words that originated from Latin. Just as Ukrainian and Russian share some words, while they both came from whoever lived back then, Ukrainian is not a branch-off of Russian, it's an independent language, but it was influenced by Polish, Tatar, and Russian, because, well, we kept getting attacked by Russians/Chepenigs/Tatar/Turks/etc.

Anyway, this is a Ukrainian song that, I hope, won't sound too horrible for you:
http://media.putfile.com/Okean-Elzi---Ya-Yidu-Dodomu

The text at the beginning:

Ja bachu navkolo kaminnja i kvity
Mista i vokzaly, i sonce i snig
Ja budu chekaty, ja budu hotity
I bachyty znovu, i znovu do nih
Ja jidu dodomu, do tebe dodomu
De ochi znajomi, i zavzhdy dorig

(I hope you understand that the "j" sounds like the spanish "ll" and "y" is a hard form of "ee" (such as Different), "c" is for a "tzar" kind of sound, and "'" is a soft sound which I can't really describe.)

To translate this into Russian

Ja vizhu vokrug kamni i cvety
Goroda i vokzaly, i solnce i sneg
Ja budu zdat', ja budu hotet'
I videt' snova, i snova do ih
Ja jedu domoj, k tebe domoj
Gde glaza znakomyje, i vsegda dorog

Let's note all the differences. All the separate words are put in the (Eng)-(RUS)-(UKR) format:

The words that are quite similar are usually all the words that are simple:
I - Ja - Ja
And - i - i
Stations - Vokzaly - Vokzaly
Will - Budu - Budu
To you - k tebe - do tebe
Sun - sonce - sonce
I drive - jedu - jidu
Familiar - znakomyje - znajomi
Toward home - domoj - dodomu

Vokzal is a foreign word, anyway. This was pretty funny, too:

Helicopter - Vertolot - Gelikopter

But to note some words that are a bit deeper:

See - Vizhu - Bachu
City - Gorod - Misto
Wait - Chekaty - Zhdat'
Eyes - Glaza - Ochi
Always - Vsegda - Zavzhdy

These are very common words. Very different. And, eventually, you'll end up meeting so many of them from a regular Ukrainian that you'll have no idea what he is saying. You may only try to "guess".

I really don't know how all this sounds to you... Russians love English songs despite the fact that they don't understand, but, as long as I know, it's not a common practice for most other non-Slavic nations, so you may hate it, I'm sorry then. I currently got a new computer, all my data is gone, so I have to collect it all over again. I have not too many Russian songs, let alone Ukrainian songs. Among the stuff that I managed to dig up:

http://media.putfile.com/Lube---Mladshaja-Sestronka (Russian, clear text)

http://media.putfile.com/Okean-Elzi---Napytis-Z-Tobou (Ukrainian)
http://media.putfile.com/Kino---Gruppa-Krovi (Russian)

http://media.putfile.com/Kino---Trollejbus (Russian)
Shares a lot of words with this one:
http://media.putfile.com/Okean-Elzi---Holodno (Ukrainian)

Unfortunately, Ukraine is not a good source of songs at the moment. We only have one good band. Most of the best Ukrainian songs are pretty old, such as this one (the only thing I managed to find): http://media.putfile.com/Ukraino

[RJbibliophil]

I am bilingual as well. I spoke mainly Norwegian when I was young, because that is where I lived. Now I use mainly English and am most fluent in that because I live I the US. I use both languages, but I think it is hard for both to be equal.

I think bilingual children have an advantage because they already know another language. This can make it easier to learn a third language.

XY&Z: Tal is plural. Perhaps it's a case of me, myself, and I?

[SleepyWitch]

With all due respect, I don’t find comparissment valid. With English and Latin, you are talking about huge time and geographical difference. When I said that Russian and Ukrainian both use Cyrillic, I thought maybe because they have same roots or something, and they are so close one to anothe(Counties, I mean).


i don't know about Ukrainian, but Mongolian uses the Cyrillic alphabet too, although it has zero relation with Russian. Mongolian belongs to a totally different family of Languages than Russian. but the Cyrillic alphabet was introduced there during the Communist era when Russia had a lot of cultural and political influence there.

[XY&Z]

Video Drone, many thanks to you. Very interesting. :)

SleepyWitch, I did not know that Mongolian uses Cyrillic. It is news to me. Thank you for enlightening me. :)

RJbibliophil, very confusing. Makes me wonder does one have a problem with multiple personality disorder. It’s me and my understanding, I mean not understanding English very well. .

[SleepyWitch]

Video Drone, many thanks to you. Very interesting. :)

SleepyWitch, I did not know that Mongolian uses Cyrillic. It is news to me. Thank you for enlightening me. :)


i think they're gradually reintroducing their old Ancient Mongolian script again, but when I visited there 2 years ago, they used Cyrillic.

[Annamariah]

Sometimes I envy people who are monolingual, because I have the feeling I simply CAN'T get 100% out of both languages, because some words/phrases just sound better in one language and I tend to mix them. What do you guys think about this?

I sometimes envy people who are bilingual, 'cause I have the feeling I simply CAN'T learn to speak any other language half as well as my mother tongue :lol: Of course I can study foreign languages, but they'll always be foreign languages, no matter how well I'll learn them.

[bazarov]

Well, before 1992 Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia were part of one country, Yugoslavia, with one official language, called Serbo-Croatian. After 1992 all these countries became independent. Every country then got it's own official language. They are for about 95% the same, except for specific pronounciation and local phrases/words, just like different dialects. Bosnian and Croatian use latin alphabet and Serbian Cyrillic.

It was in 1990, actually.
Before that, in school children were learning Serbo-Croatian language and both cyrillic and latin alphabet. Serbian cyrillic have some differences with Russian cyrillic. Croatian language is softer than Serbian, but area of former Yugoslavia, especially Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Serbia are definitely unique: you can move for 100 miles and you won't understand a word :D
The important thing is also history and influence of other nations. Croatia and Herzegovina are catholics, Bosnia are muslims and Serbians are orthodox. So Austria, Germany and west mostly influenced on Croatian language, Turkish empire had great influence on Bosnia and eastern Europe on Serbian language. Therefore, you have 10-15 names for one thing.

[Mortis Anarchy]

Well I was taught Spanish first and then English...I use English more because of where I live and lost a lot of the vocab. I used to know. But now that I am older, I can speak spanish fluently, well for the most part, and understand it. Before, when I went to Mexico to visit family, I would have a hard time communicating my own thoughts, but could understand as clear as if it was english. Now I am learning german and italian! I love languages. I personally think it is beneficial to people to expand their minds and learn more.

Last year I got into an arguement with this girl because she thought it was pointless and dumb that students have to study spanish. That because we are in the USA we shouldn't have to adapt to other countries. I believe, however, that learning new languages is beneficial because it helps out later in life. With my first job I worked a lot with hispanic people. My managers would come to me and ask me to help them talk to the other workers...even other customers at times.

:D

[Koa]

I am truly envious of bilinguals and i dont think theres a single negative side to it... damn you're fluent in two languages, with no effort and no accent... I wish I were bilingual...
(and we are talking of bilinguals from birth, not of being able to speak a foreign language, that's a totlly different thing. I can hold a conversation in 3 languages besides my native one, but I'm not bilingula with any of those, actually very far especially with 2 of them)


Ukrainian and Russian may use similar alphabets, but so do Latin and English, but you can't understand Latin, can't you?

They are very different. Ukrainian is a lot more subtle, it is considered the second most melodical language after Italian, actually... In any case, Russians who never knew Ukrainian have a lot of trouble understanding it. And if you learn Russian, you will not understand Ukrainian. There are some similar words between the two, but there are enough similar words between English and Latin, as well.

The best I can do is find a Russian song and then a Ukrainian song for you...

Allow me to disagree. I think they are as similar as Italian and Spanish. You know one of them, you learn the little differences and similarities, and you can understand the other. I don't say you can speak it, but you can understand. I learnt Russian for 3-4 years and then I spent 3 months in Kiev. At first Ukrainian seemed really different, but after two months I could grasp something. I had a whole conversation with a woman who was speaking Ukrainian to me and I answered in Russian. On my last day at work I answered the phone and this person was speaking Ukrainian and I understood what they wanted. Of course I can't understand all, but if Russian was my native language I think I'd get a lot, exactly how I have little trouble understanding Spanish because I am Italian.
Oh once I translated a silly Ukrainian pop song just using my knowledge of Russian and some dictionaries,and it wasn't too bad... not a perfect translation, but generally ok.

[Video Drone]

"then I spent 3 months in Kiev..."

I'm sorry, but after I spent a few weeks in an American school I could easily chat in English, read Harry Potter and some other books, without previously having any knowledge of English farther than "hello, my name is olga, i come from russia". Talking to native speakers will improve your language abilities with that language even if you have never dealt with that language. But to learn Ukrainian without speaking to Ukrainians will go as slowly as learning English from Russian without speaking to englishmen.

I have no idea what Italian looks like so I can't say anything on that topic. But, currently I'm learning German. It's pretty slow for me. But if I went to Germany and talked to people it would go much faster, I am sure of it.

[adilyoussef]

I'm also a bilingual. That's true that you tend to mix up the two languages. At the end the mixture becomes your native languave. In my country, people use different words from different languages, but a little bit modified, especially French and Spanish.

[livelaughlove]

I'm tri-lingual. I learned chinese and english at the same time, but I've lived in the US all my life so of course I know English the best! But I do have to think before I talk, so I'm always slow at comebacks. Oh well. I also learn Spanish at school and I am pretty much fluent. I'd say definitely try to go to the country if you are trying to learn a language - it helps sooo much. I've been to Spain twice and just being in the atmosphere helps your concept of the language.

I'm interested in learning italian and right now I have two italian grammar books sitting next to me. But more than that, I think latin would be awesome to learn. Does anyone know how to speak latin fluently?

As for mixing the languages, it's definitely happened to me, more than once! When I was in Spain and talking to my spanish teacher (the second time I went was for a school trip), I replied in chinese and then had to quickly finish the sentence in spanish to cover it up! I don't think he noticed, though, phew! :)

[vheissu]

[QUOTE=livelaughlove;395284]I'm interested in learning italian and right now I have two italian grammar books sitting next to me. But more than that, I think latin would be awesome to learn. Does anyone know how to speak latin fluently?
QUOTE]

Well, if you know Spanish well enough then Italian should be really easy. I did the opposite: I know Italian and did some Spanish for a year. The good thing is that they both share a similar grammatical structure, after that it's just a matter of practising.
Someone told me that it will be very difficult to have a good grasp of both Spanish and Italian, since they are so similar and you'll always mix them up. Which is true in a way...I've stopped studying Spanish (no time!) and although I can still understand it and read it I'll definetely start mixing it with italian if I speak it!

As for latin...Since it's considered a 'dead' language I don't think we know for sure if we do pronounce it correctly. At least that's what my prof at school used to say who considered himself rather knowledgable in latin. But it's the basis to all latin derived modern languages. Personally, I never liked it, especially the translations we had to do. Latin literature was a lot more interesting!

[Video Drone]

The good thing is that they both share a similar grammatical structure, after that it's just a matter of practising.Well, Spanish grammar is very similar to Russian grammar, except it is even more simpler...

[Mortis Anarchy]

Its definetly easier to learn languages when you are immersed in the culture. Whenever I speak Spanish at home it sounds differently, but then when I spend a couple of days in Mexico, it just kicks in. I think that is a big part of learning languages. You just have to immerese yourself into it.

[Elly_blue]

It was in 1990, actually.
Before that, in school children were learning Serbo-Croatian language and both cyrillic and latin alphabet. Serbian cyrillic have some differences with Russian cyrillic. Croatian language is softer than Serbian, but area of former Yugoslavia, especially Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Serbia are definitely unique: you can move for 100 miles and you won't understand a word :D
The important thing is also history and influence of other nations. Croatia and Herzegovina are catholics, Bosnia are muslims and Serbians are orthodox. So Austria, Germany and west mostly influenced on Croatian language, Turkish empire had great influence on Bosnia and eastern Europe on Serbian language. Therefore, you have 10-15 names for one thing.

Wow, you seem to know a lot more about the history of these languages than I even know. Thanx for your clarification!:thumbs_up

[Koa]

"then I spent 3 months in Kiev..."

I'm sorry, but after I spent a few weeks in an American school I could easily chat in English, read Harry Potter and some other books, without previously having any knowledge of English farther than "hello, my name is olga, i come from russia". Talking to native speakers will improve your language abilities with that language even if you have never dealt with that language. But to learn Ukrainian without speaking to Ukrainians will go as slowly as learning English from Russian without speaking to englishmen.


I still disagree. I got to understand those people speaking Ukrainian BECAUSE I knew Russian. I have spent 5 months in Hungary but I couldn't really understand them (besides what I had learnt at lessons, while I had never learnt the Ukrainian language), because I didn't know any similar language (not that they exist...).
Sure you can learn a language by immersion, as immigrants do, but knowing a similar one makes it easier. I wasnt immersed in the Ukrainian language because I mostly didn't need to, I worked with Italians and spoke Russian when I had to communicate with people.




I have no idea what Italian looks like so I can't say anything on that topic. But, currently I'm learning German. It's pretty slow for me. But if I went to Germany and talked to people it would go much faster, I am sure of it.

Of course it would, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I was talking of similarities making it easier to understand the language...
Italian looks a lot like Spanish, google something in both languages and you can see....and if you know Spanish as you seem to, you will guess some Italian to prove my point that you can pretty much understand a language if you know enough of a similar one...but after this...


Well, Spanish grammar is very similar to Russian grammar, except it is even more simpler...

...I think I won't continue this conversation with you because we clearly live on different planets... Spanish and Russian similar??? I've never heard of this one and I can think of a few extremely deep differences just off the top of my head... (Spanish has no cases, several past tenses, mostly latin vocabulary... Russian has cases, one past tense and with very simple morphology, perfective and imperfective verbs, mostly slavic vocabulary... tons of other things)

[Video Drone]

I still disagree. I got to understand those people speaking Ukrainian BECAUSE I knew Russian. I have spent 5 months in Hungary but I couldn't really understand them. Again, I don't think it would have been as easy for you if you didn't live in Ukraine. I have trouble getting a hang of Bulgarian. And I wonder what the heck were you doing in Hungary, if I lived in there for that time, I would get some grasp of Hungarian. Unless I sat home all day.

Also, are you sure people were speaking to you in Ukrainian? I didn't encounter Ukrainian too often, even in Kiev...


...I think I won't continue this conversation with you because we clearly live on different planets... Spanish and Russian similar??? I've never heard of this one and I can think of a few extremely deep differences just off the top of my head... (Spanish has no cases, several past tenses, mostly latin vocabulary... Russian has cases, one past tense and with very simple morphology, perfective and imperfective verbs, mostly slavic vocabulary... tons of other things)
Well, maybe it has something to do with me spending a lot of time making my own language and simplifying things, haha, trying to combine a bunch of language together.

Well, the "me gusta ..." sequence is the exact thing in Russian. The way everything has to correspond in gender/number. Didn't get to tenses yet, but so far they are a lot easier to understand than English tenses (English is the most ridiculous language ever). Perhaps I should have said that Spanish, grammar-wise (what does vocab has to do with this?), is closer to Russian than to English.

In any case, when our teacher has trouble explaining stuff to us, I parallel Spanish to Russian, and it helps a lot. I have no problems in my Spanish class at all while other people have trouble keeping up. I have only been learning Spanish for a year. I can almost read a book and soon I'll just read Harry Potter (the book I got my first English vocab from) in Spanish. It's soooo simple.

And don't heat up like that, OK? I'm just a kid, posting on a forum. :crash:

[Koa]

And don't heat up like that, OK? I'm just a kid, posting on a forum. :crash:

I only do it with arrogant kids that speak like they had the absolute truth.

Saying that Russian is more similar to Spanish than to English is different than saying that they are similar tout court... (is that expression used in English? I think it is....). Yes, "me gusta" is similar to "mne nravitsia", as it's similar to Italian "mi piace", while in English it happens to be different. I find English to have a very simple grammar and I think English speakers have it really hard learning other languages because they are often more complex, lots of verb forms etc....

And yes I'm sure I was spoken to in Ukrainian at times - I guess some where people who came/phoned not from Kiev, or from the embassy etc. and I've been to L'viv.

As for Hungary, unfortunately I only could attend one language course, which wasn't much, and I was taking my courses in English and had way too many foreign friends. I regret now not having done much and sajnos még csak egy kicsit beszélek magyarul (unfortunately I still speak only little Hungarian). Anyway I doubt you'd be fluent in six months, unless you are the genius you claim to be. You know, Hungarian is really similar to Spanish, they both have a past tense verb conjugations with six forms instead of three like Russian :D (well, if only there wasn't a certain complication to Hungarian... )

Sometimes knowing Russian helps me with Hungarian because I can relate some forms, but I'd never on earth say that Hungarian is similar to Russian. With a bit more experience you'll realise that the more languages you learn, the more you can relate forms to one another, which doesn't mean that the languages are similar in general... just knowing some forms is often helpful when meeting them in another language.

[crisaor]

Saying spanish is similar to russian is ridiculous. Italian has far more similarities with spanish, and even then I wouldn't dare call them similar. It's just what Koa said, knowing some particular forms can be helpful, but that doesn't make them similar in any way. It's just like saying you're fluent in a language just because you can understand some spoken words in it.

[Bakiryu]

I learned english just a few months after coming from a spanish-speaking country with no previous knowledge of the language. Since I know spanish i can pretty much understand italian, portugese and some latin.

I'm trying to lear ukranian, russian and japanese. I love to listen to Ukranian Music. Does anyone here listen to Verka Serduchka (Andrei Danilko), Alla Pugacheva and Via Gra?

[crisaor]

So you said in the earlier thread. That, however, is not the definition of 'fluent'.

[Mortis Anarchy]

I only do it with arrogant kids that speak like they had the absolute truth.

Saying that Russian is more similar to Spanish than to English is different than saying that they are similar tout court... (is that expression used in English? I think it is....). Yes, "me gusta" is similar to "mne nravitsia", as it's similar to Italian "mi piace", while in English it happens to be different. I find English to have a very simple grammar and I think English speakers have it really hard learning other languages because they are often more complex, lots of verb forms etc....

And yes I'm sure I was spoken to in Ukrainian at times - I guess some where people who came/phoned not from Kiev, or from the embassy etc. and I've been to L'viv.

As for Hungary, unfortunately I only could attend one language course, which wasn't much, and I was taking my courses in English and had way too many foreign friends. I regret now not having done much and sajnos még csak egy kicsit beszélek magyarul (unfortunately I still speak only little Hungarian). Anyway I doubt you'd be fluent in six months, unless you are the genius you claim to be. You know, Hungarian is really similar to Spanish, they both have a past tense verb conjugations with six forms instead of three like Russian :D (well, if only there wasn't a certain complication to Hungarian... )

Sometimes knowing Russian helps me with Hungarian because I can relate some forms, but I'd never on earth say that Hungarian is similar to Russian. With a bit more experience you'll realise that the more languages you learn, the more you can relate forms to one another, which doesn't mean that the languages are similar in general... just knowing some forms is often helpful when meeting them in another language.


I think that a lot of people find learning english really hard. My mom's mother tongue as well as mine is spanish, but I was really young at the time. Anyways, my mom said that english took her a long time...I think it varies on how easily people pick up a language. I picked up German pretty fast although I am not fluent, but I am working on it. Italian also seems to come fairly easy to me...but Portuguese and French are a bit different, so I can't understand them very well, if at all. I don't think people learn english quickly because it is simple...some just learn quicker than others. I have a friend who's mom is from the Phillipines and she had a hard time learning English as well.

[aabbcc]

I can speak Croatian and/or Serbian, Italian, English and Russian (and that order more-less resembles my comptence in those languages); those are only 4/5 (as you wish) languages for which I would dare to claim that I speak them.

Croatian and/or Serbian and Russian were my native languages. My Russian has never been as good as the former two, as I was forbidden to speak it for many years, and as I have never had intense ties with my native soil (other than the language, of course). Russia - and Russian - was always something almost-bygone in my life, the episode of my family's life I was not a part of, and I was only given a vague access to through the language. I later did my best to re-learn it in full academic sense, and I could always read classics of literature in Russian effortlessly, but I was in active usage never as comfortable with it as with Croatian/Serbian.

I also spoke Slovenian natively up to the age of 9, but I have probably not uttered the word of it since, nor do I have any desire to resurrect that language in my life. Being enrolled in the classical education, I studied Latin and Ancient Greek for years, and for religious reasons I also learnt Old Church Slavonic. I studied French for the total of four years, and Modern Greek half as much, but I would not dare to claim any great active knowledge of either. I can read them relatively well, however, especially French given its lexical similarities with Italian (which I am well-grounded in).

I believe that knowing more languages can only be advantage, another way to see the world, and an access to one more culture. Of course, I will not deny that at certain times I was overwhelmed by that insight, that at times it was not a burden and that I never wished not to speak certain languages, but in the end, I am very thankful for each and every one of them to have formed a part of me and my view of the world.

[JuLe]

I am a tri-lingual. My parents came from Russia, and I was raised in Israel, therefore I learned Hebrew. Add the English and you get the third language.
My Russian is quite lousy, though whenever I pay attention to it I can speak and read without problems. I work a lot on my English, and, well, gradually I become more familiar with it. I can speak quite fluently and of course read.
In my opinion, every language is a useful tool. It is mainly a privilege to be able to read literature in the language it was originally written, and secondly each and every language expends our life. Since all of them are so different they give you a better understanding of many things.
It also helps when you study a new language, however, I don't believe I'll ever be able to learn another language (on that level), they will remain foreign to me. (But hey! life might surprise me).

[Elly_blue]

Hey, Anyone of you here mind that I use some of your quotes for my seminarpaper? I'm writing about language acquisition. Some of the posts here were really good and could be very helpfull for my paper. Ofcourse I won't just use it as something that I made up, I will properly mention where I got the info/quotes from. I don't want to ˝steal˝ ideas and opinions ;)