where is God?

[stephofthenight]

ok, i was randomly looking thru my bible and i came upon psalms chapter 12. being a fan of psalms as its easy to read, i start reading, and well i realized this sounds like todays suciety; but is this god saying that he will come back when this happens, i mean all of the bible is god talking to the people telling them what to write, well therforth then this would be god praising himself as well and that is vanity a sin. leading to god not being perfect and sinless???
just a thought. let me know what u think.
psalms 12:1-8

1.) Save me Lord, becuase the good people are all gone, No true belivers are left on earth.
2.) Everyone lies to their neighborse, says one thing, and means another.
3.) The Lord will stop those flattering lips and cut off those bragging tounges.
4.) They say our tounges will help us win, we may say what we wish, for we have no master.
5.) But the lord says, i will rise up becuase the poor are being hurt; because the helpless moan, i will give them the help they wish for.
6.) The Lords words are pure, like silver purified by fire, like silver purified by fire seven times over.
7.) lord you will keep us safe, you will protect us from evil.
8.) but the wicked are all around us, everyone loves what is wrong.

[Pendragon]

Psalms was written by David, as stated clearly above this Psalm. So David is giving praise to God, not God praising Himself.

God Bless,

Pen

[wrestle-135]

The bible prepares us for the end times. Although in psalms it's more focused on David prasing God, But in other books such as Joel Acts and especially revelations the bible focuses and warns us of things that will happen before Christ comes to take his church. Joel says that in the last days your sons and daughters shall prophesy and old men will dream dreams and young men shall see visions. This has happened since the upper room experience on the day of pentecost. It is still happening in Pentecostal churches still today. I've grown up pentecostal and it's still happening. Revelations talks about there being wars and rumors of wars. Exactly what's happening in the middle East. Revelations also talks about one world currency which is happening very quickly. God has given us warnings and many are happeing right now. Be ready the Lord is coming. I know it doesn't have to do with Psalms but God is coming so everyone make sure your ready!!!! It won't be long.

[motherhubbard]

God is right here, and absolutely without sin. God has not changed and there is no new sin in the Earth. Man, having free will, has managed to screw things up for themselves. It would be nice for God to just make everything perfect for us, but he tried that already. The Garden was perfect, and we were not. It is a challenge, and it is meant to be. God will only do for us what we can not do for ourselves. When Christ raised Lazarus he did not unwrap him, he had to do that for himself.

One can find whatever they seek in the Bible. By that I mean that if you are looking for a reason to love or to hate God you will find it. The same is true with life. If you work hard enough to find misery you will. If you work hard enough to find joy you will.

I’ve been listening to you for a while. You have a lot to deal with and work through. I think you are having to deal with things beyond your years and that much of that you’ve brought on yourself. I would that you resist the social pressure to be a fourteen year old adult. Many 30 year old adults have a hard time dealing with it, and you shouldn’t have to. I’m still praying for you Steph.

[Bakiryu]

'The Kingdom of god is inside you, and all around you. Everywhere you look you'll find her, in the bottom of the darknest sea or in the person next to you. The gods are everywhere.'

[kiobe]

ok, i was randomly looking thru my bible and i came upon psalms chapter 12. being a fan of psalms as its easy to read, i start reading, and well i realized this sounds like todays suciety; but is this god saying that he will come back when this happens, i mean all of the bible is god talking to the people telling them what to write, well therforth then this would be god praising himself as well and that is vanity a sin. leading to god not being perfect and sinless???
just a thought. let me know what u think.
psalms 12:1-8

1.) Save me Lord, becuase the good people are all gone, No true belivers are left on earth.
2.) Everyone lies to their neighborse, says one thing, and means another.
3.) The Lord will stop those flattering lips and cut off those bragging tounges.
4.) They say our tounges will help us win, we may say what we wish, for we have no master.
5.) But the lord says, i will rise up becuase the poor are being hurt; because the helpless moan, i will give them the help they wish for.
6.) The Lords words are pure, like silver purified by fire, like silver purified by fire seven times over.
7.) lord you will keep us safe, you will protect us from evil.
8.) but the wicked are all around us, everyone loves what is wrong.

The discription given outlining the societal ills of our world could easily be anytime in history. To project those words to mean now, or this time in history is like pressing your nose in a history book, you can only see a very, very small part of the page and until you pull back to see that the page contains only part of a very long story a person might think that the very small part he/she was looking at contains all he/she needs to know. Making the comparision that only believers are good is an "ist" type of judgement...as in, racist, sexist etc.

For thousands of years the poor and helpless have taken only scraps left to them by those that have. They have been masacred by corrupt government heads, forgotten by thier own countrymen and left to die without even a thought as to why this is so wrong. Exactly what is God waiting for?

[Bookworm4Him]

Vanity is a sin b/c we take credit for things that we shouldn't. If you are a genius, and become all prideful about it, you forget that it was God who gave you that talent in the first place. That is why vanity is a sin. But God has that right, b/c everything is His. gtg be back l8r

[Redzeppelin]

For thousands of years the poor and helpless have taken only scraps left to them by those that have. They have been masacred by corrupt government heads, forgotten by thier own countrymen and left to die without even a thought as to why this is so wrong. Exactly what is God waiting for?

If we assume God to be who He says He is, then we assume that His eventual coming and restoration of justice will be done at the most perfect time that such a thing could possibly be done. We may question His judgment, but He knows all of the variables of which we only know a small handful.

[stephofthenight]

ok...i thought it was wrong to question or doubt god???

[kiobe]

If we assume God to be who He says He is, then we assume that His eventual coming and restoration of justice will be done at the most perfect time that such a thing could possibly be done. We may question His judgment, but He knows all of the variables of which we only know a small handful.

You know what we say about assumptions.

[quasimodo1]

Dear stephofthenight: Let me take a small liberty here, notwithstanding some of the replies I have read relative to getting some perspective on the events (life altering) which you have suffered lately. Pehaps a better question is where are you...emotionally, spiritually and also referencing something the French call "joi de vivre" (french spelling?) meaning joy of living. Of all things it is necessary to acquire or re-acquire this is the most important in my view. I had to be the one that informed my 18 year old daughter that her boyfriend (he was more than that of course) had been killed in a car accident while out celebrating his graduation the next day with a degree (CPA). Nobody wants these duties and my daughter was extemely distraught. We worked our way through it and to this day, she must have had the experience of traumatic memories. She is smart, almost a genious, in my view, admittedly prejudiced, and has gone on to create a positive and creative lifestyle. Believe me, I don't take credit for this at all. She just knew she must move on and she did, with more than one tear in her eye for quite a while. I tell you this so you will know people can overcome some tragedies and whether they do it with god or without is fine by me. Even the Christ, of new testament fame, would tell you...god is within you. The strength to overcome tremendous pain is within you also. quasimodo1

[Redzeppelin]

ok...i thought it was wrong to question or doubt god???

No - if you read through the Bible you will find that many of God's most devoted servants both doubted and questioned Him - but they always continued to obey and serve Him even when doubtful or full of unanswered questions.


You know what we say about assumptions.

I certainly do; I'll assume that this is an attempt to dismantle the validity of my point. It doesn't. As I have said before, assumptions are a part of life (as is faith); assumptions based upon a reasonable foundation are essential to both science and religion. If God is who He claims to be, then the assumption I'm suggesting is perfectly reasonable. Not all assumptions are equal.

[kiobe]

No - if you read through the Bible you will find that many of God's most devoted servants both doubted and questioned Him - but they always continued to obey and serve Him even when doubtful or full of unanswered questions.



I certainly do; I'll assume that this is an attempt to dismantle the validity of my point. It doesn't. As I have said before, assumptions are a part of life (as is faith); assumptions based upon a reasonable foundation are essential to both science and religion. If God is who He claims to be, then the assumption I'm suggesting is perfectly reasonable. Not all assumptions are equal.

My terminology isn't quite correct. Assuming is to take too much for granted or to be presumptious, to overstep proper bounds, not the ascent of the virgin Mary. Faith would be an assumption of a higher being or in the word of God in the bible. Do you assume there's a God, or do you have faith that God exists? Faith is an unquestioning belief that God exists. An assumption is a hedged bet. True, assumptions are essential to science, but the assumptions made in the science community are allways open to scrutiny and allow for change based on newer findings. Does religion allow for the same scrutiny and change based on the assumptions of newer ways of interpreting the bible? If not then it's not a assumption, it's faith.

[Redzeppelin]

My terminology isn't quite correct. Assuming is to take too much for granted or to be presumptious, to overstep proper bounds, not the ascent of the virgin Mary. Faith would be an assumption of a higher being or in the word of God in the bible. Do you assume there's a God, or do you have faith that God exists? Faith is an unquestioning belief that God exists. An assumption is a hedged bet. True, assumptions are essential to science, but the assumptions made in the science community are allways open to scrutiny and allow for change based on newer findings. Does religion allow for the same scrutiny and change based on the assumptions of newer ways of interpreting the bible? If not then it's not a assumption, it's faith.

Right; I have faith that God exists and is who He claims to be; however, since I'm having a conversation with those who may not have the same faith, I use the word "assumption" in the sense of a logical construction: if God is who He claims to be, then it is reasonable to assume that His decisions are just and correct.

[hyperborean]

Where is God? In your head.

[Redzeppelin]

Where is God? In your head.

No no no - according to the Bible He lives in our hearts. But you're close. There is hope yet.

[billyjack]

Right; I have faith that God exists and is who He claims to be; .

no, you have belief in god's existence. you cannot have real, concrete knowledge of the christian conception of god that you subscribe to, so your faith is actually a belief, or better yet, a wish. faith on the other hand is found through concrete experience and therefore concrete knowledge. you might say that you experience god in everyday life, but i've read many of your post that describe god in ways that everyday experiences do not supply. for example, you say god only likes the "good", but in my everyday experience i see the sun shining on the sinner as well as the saint.



if God is who He claims to be, then it is reasonable to assume that His decisions are just and correct.

begging the question.

[Pendragon]

Where is God? In your head.Unfortunately, this is true for many people. They are trying to figure God out in terms of what man knows and understands. God says in the Bible: “My ways are above thy ways even as the heavens are above the Earth”. I don't believe there is any way to mentally construct God where it makes Him fit any thing a skeptic will accept as proof. God is about 12 inches away from most people. That roughly is the distance from the brain to the heart. They look for an intellectual understanding when simple faith is all they need.

[linz]

"The Spirit of God is within you" --Christ

"I am the true and faithful witness, the beginning of the creation of God." -- Revelation of St. John the Divine

Both of these seem to suggest to me that God is a manifestation in the 'end-times', and that the 'mystery of God is fulfilled' in the 'sweet and bitter' book. (Quotes also from Revelation)

[Redzeppelin]

no, you have belief in god's existence. you cannot have real, concrete knowledge of the christian conception of god that you subscribe to, so your faith is actually a belief, or better yet, a wish. faith on the other hand is found through concrete experience and therefore concrete knowledge. you might say that you experience god in everyday life, but i've read many of your post that describe god in ways that everyday experiences do not supply. for example, you say god only likes the "good", but in my everyday experience i see the sun shining on the sinner as well as the saint.

Belief: conviction that certain things are true
Wish: to have a longing for; want
Faith: unquestioning belief; complete trust and confidence
- from Webster's New World Dictionary

Nice try - you have attempted to make into synonyms words that have very subtle differences. Details matter - try to take them into account.

I've never, ever indicated that God "only likes the 'good' " - the Bible makes it clear that He bestows blessings on the good and bad alike. You need to re-read my posts because you're misrepresenting what I've said.



begging the question.

Incorrect as well; my statement is only begging-the-question if the question at hand is God's existence - it's not. The question at hand was dealing with God's moral character. My statement is valid - your criticism is not.

[Pendragon]

I've never, ever indicated that God "only likes the 'good' " - the Bible makes it clear that He bestows blessings on the good and bad alike. You need to re-read my posts because you're misrepresenting what I've said.


I'd like to make one point here, if I may. There is a place in the Bible where it speaks of sending rain on the just and the unjust.

Try thinking of it like planting a garden. You require rain for your vegetables to grow, and during a dry spell, wish it would rain before the crops you worked so hard for die. But you know something? That rain will make the weeds grow as well. You don't want them, you don't need them, and it's a chore to get rid of them. But that life-giving rain doesn't pick sides, does it? Think about this a little.

God bless.

Pen

[abcpoet]

I'd like to make one point here, if I may. There is a place in the Bible where it speaks of sending rain on the just and the unjust.

Try thinking of it like planting a garden. You require rain for your vegetables to grow, and during a dry spell, wish it would rain before the crops you worked so hard for die. But you know something? That rain will make the weeds grow as well. You don't want them, you don't need them, and it's a chore to get rid of them. But that life-giving rain doesn't pick sides, does it? Think about this a little.

God bless.

Pen

That's a wonderful thought. Can we interpret in this way - God gives equal opportunities to both the good and the bad, and it is for the human beings to decide what is beneficial for them? Weeds that grow along with the wanted plants are plucked out by human beings. Some weeds are preserved by us. Why? 'Coz they have the required utility for us.
Plz correct me if I am wrong. This is totally what I interpreted on my own after reading ur post.

[billyjack]

.I've never, ever indicated that God "only likes the 'good' " - the Bible makes it clear that He bestows blessings on the good and bad alike. You need to re-read my posts because you're misrepresenting what I've said.
.

yeah, yeah, yeah. yet you claim your eternal life is a vacuum devoid of evil--you go back and forth so much about this evil and good stuff that it makes me begin to believe that morality is transient and conventional, and i'd agree with you wholeheartedly on that. but hey: next time, before you bash me for not reading your posts thoroughly, try reading a post thourougly yourself. the main point of my statements were not about "good" and "evil"--rather, i was addressing the apparent fact that the conception of god you have is not exprienced in everyday life, but rather read in a book. therefore, i called your faith a belief. faith is in experience, belief is in fables.


.
Incorrect as well; my statement is only begging-the-question if the question at hand is God's existence - it's not. The question at hand was dealing with God's moral character. My statement is valid - your criticism is not.

logic, as abstract as it may be at times, is still tied to the natural world. therefore, its premises and conclusions must be testable and provable, just like scientific hypothesis, in order for an argument to be sound. anyhoot, you may not be begging the question, but you are still committing a complex question fallacy. . .in dealing with god's moral character you are necessarily implying his existence--which is still up for debate.

[weepingforloman]

The discription given outlining the societal ills of our world could easily be anytime in history. To project those words to mean now, or this time in history is like pressing your nose in a history book, you can only see a very, very small part of the page and until you pull back to see that the page contains only part of a very long story a person might think that the very small part he/she was looking at contains all he/she needs to know. Making the comparision that only believers are good is an "ist" type of judgement...as in, racist, sexist etc.

For thousands of years the poor and helpless have taken only scraps left to them by those that have. They have been masacred by corrupt government heads, forgotten by thier own countrymen and left to die without even a thought as to why this is so wrong. Exactly what is God waiting for?

You're pretty close on the part about the foolishness of saying "only believers are good," but you miss the most critical part: nobody is good. Believers are fallen and sinful just as everyone else is.

God is waiting for us to act. The welfare of the poor and the oppressed is not something He should, or will, take into His own hands. We are called to be stewards of this earth; let's start doing something. Don't blame God for not taking action, simply act. If you have to blame someone, blame the inactive, the lethargic, the apathetic, the selfish people of this world who see suffering, have the means to help, and do not do so.

[weepingforloman]

yeah, yeah, yeah. yet you claim your eternal life is a vacuum devoid of evil--you go back and forth so much about this evil and good stuff that it makes me begin to believe that morality is transient and conventional, and i'd agree with you wholeheartedly on that. but hey: next time, before you bash me for not reading your posts thoroughly, try reading a post thourougly yourself. the main point of my statements were not about "good" and "evil"--rather, i was addressing the apparent fact that the conception of god you have is not exprienced in everyday life, but rather read in a book. therefore, i called your faith a belief. faith is in experience, belief is in fables.

Faith and belief are essentially the same word (you can try checking a dictionary). That's not the point anyway. You take virtually everything you know on faith. For example, you probably believe in the American Revolution (I do, too, don't make this into something I'm not saying). Did you see it? Were you there? No. You believe it happened because historians have said so. You have faith that there is no massive conspiracy of historians to get us to believe in a nonexistent war. You probably believe in the existence of black holes (this one isn't entirely proved, though, but it probably is true). Have you "seen" one (that doesn't work entirely, because they swallow light, but you catch my drift)? No. You believe it because the astronomers tell you black holes are out there, and you have faith that they are not total fools or out to get you. Anything you have not experienced firsthand is taken on faith.

[Redzeppelin]

yeah, yeah, yeah. yet you claim your eternal life is a vacuum devoid of evil--you go back and forth so much about this evil and good stuff that it makes me begin to believe that morality is transient and conventional, and i'd agree with you wholeheartedly on that.

I don't even follow what you're saying here.


but hey: next time, before you bash me for not reading your posts thoroughly, try reading a post thourougly yourself. the main point of my statements were not about "good" and "evil"--rather, i was addressing the apparent fact that the conception of god you have is not exprienced in everyday life, but rather read in a book. therefore, i called your faith a belief. faith is in experience, belief is in fables.

I responded to what you said in your prior post. You have no idea how I experience God - you're making assumptions about something of which you have zero knowledge.



logic, as abstract as it may be at times, is still tied to the natural world. therefore, its premises and conclusions must be testable and provable, just like scientific hypothesis, in order for an argument to be sound. anyhoot, you may not be begging the question, but you are still committing a complex question fallacy. . .in dealing with god's moral character you are necessarily implying his existence--which is still up for debate.

Not to me. I do not need to prove God exists to assert what I believe His character to be. Sorry, my friend, your response makes little sense to me. If you wish to try again, I'll do my best to try and understand you.

[boom-boom13]

The Holy Spirit lives inside of Christians, those who have accepted Christ's redemptive work. God Himself is in heaven. Now we're getting into the Trinity and it all gets a bit muddy, but my point is:nowhere does the Bible claim that the God of the Bible lives in everyone across the board, or in everything i.e.plants, animals.

[weepingforloman]

The Holy Spirit lives inside of Christians, those who have accepted Christ's redemptive work. God Himself is in heaven. Now we're getting into the Trinity and it all gets a bit muddy, but my point is:nowhere does the Bible claim that the God of the Bible lives in everyone across the board, or in everything i.e.plants, animals.

Well, of course, that's stepping into the realm of that pseudo-eastern religion called Pantheism. However, God is omnipresent. There is no place where God is not. That absolutely does not mean that God is everything, just that His presence is all through creation. God can no more be creation than an artist actually in his own painting (the Incarnation can be considered God's painting in of Himself into creation).

[billyjack]

Faith and belief are essentially the same word (you can try checking a dictionary). .

i'm aware the dictionary amalgamates the two words. however, i think its useful to use them as opposing each other on the continuum of religious jargon. doing so might help to unveil some of the splits between the religious and non religious.



That's not the point anyway. You take virtually everything you know on faith. For example, you probably believe in the American Revolution (I do, too, don't make this into something I'm not saying). Did you see it? Were you there? No. You believe it happened because historians have said so. You have faith that there is no massive conspiracy of historians to get us to believe in a nonexistent war. You probably believe in the existence of black holes (this one isn't entirely proved, though, but it probably is true). Have you "seen" one (that doesn't work entirely, because they swallow light, but you catch my drift)? .

logical necessities such as black holes and major wars are not matters of belief. reason being, black holes and wars are implied by our theories of space and history just as you yourself imply having been born from a mother. i dont need to see your mom to know she exist or existed, i know from natural logic. this isnt a leap of faith on my part, its common sense. common sense is not, however, belief. for example, seeing the sun rise and the stars shine does not necessitate an all powerful monarch commanding them to do so from his throne in heaven--thinking so would be based in "belief." therefore, i'd call logic and the way of things not believed, but "faithful."

[weepingforloman]

Okay. Okay. Okay. Slow down.

With regards to the faith/belief dilemma: if you will not use words in the traditionally accepted way, using the definitions common to speakers of the English language, we cannot communicate.

Secondly: my point was not that wars did not happen, only that you claim to know many things that you cannot possibly know (you were not there). If we accept everything we "know" on authority, how does the fact that God must be believed in sight unseen make a difference?

[Vittoria666]

The bible prepares us for the end times. Although in psalms it's more focused on David prasing God, But in other books such as Joel Acts and especially revelations the bible focuses and warns us of things that will happen before Christ comes to take his church. Joel says that in the last days your sons and daughters shall prophesy and old men will dream dreams and young men shall see visions. This has happened since the upper room experience on the day of pentecost. It is still happening in Pentecostal churches still today. I've grown up pentecostal and it's still happening. Revelations talks about there being wars and rumors of wars. Exactly what's happening in the middle East. Revelations also talks about one world currency which is happening very quickly. God has given us warnings and many are happeing right now. Be ready the Lord is coming. I know it doesn't have to do with Psalms but God is coming so everyone make sure your ready!!!! It won't be long.

so you also believe that the bible prepares us for the future???
i still don't get your point...

[Bookworm4Him]

no, you have belief in god's existence. you cannot have real, concrete knowledge of the christian conception of god that you subscribe to, so your faith is actually a belief, or better yet, a wish. faith on the other hand is found through concrete experience and therefore concrete knowledge. you might say that you experience god in everyday life, but i've read many of your post that describe god in ways that everyday experiences do not supply. for example, you say god only likes the "good", but in my everyday experience i see the sun shining on the sinner as well as the saint.



begging the question.

is talking to Him enough of concrete evidence? 'Cause I do it everyday, more than once through prayer.

[Lyn]

Faith doesn't require concrete evidence. If I had concrete evidence I would know something, and faith would not be necessary.

[Pendragon]

May I answer a question with a question? Where have you been searching for God?

God Bless

Pen

[blazeofglory]

God is in your imagination, in your ideas.