A Corporeal God?

[chaplin]

I recently found a chart in storage, that had about ten different Christian denominations and their stance on a variety of religious areas and topics. The denominations represented were all the major ones mostly, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Baptist, Presbetyrian, Adventists, Latter-day Saints, Lutheran etc.

Obviously, the similiarites were many, the differences being mostly technical or nominal. But I found one glaring point of total disagreement. All the denominations believe in an incorporeal God. That is all but one, the exception being the LDS Church, the Mormons. It unequivocally stated their belief in a God with a "perfected body", he being a person of tangible matter, in the same form as the resurrected Christ.

I would definitely say that Mormons are Christians, and I don't want this thread to be about if they are or are not, but really the church's doctrinal stand, on such an important foundational thing as the form of God, is completely different from that of essentially every other Christian denomination.

I'm not exactly sure where I stand on this point, but I was wondering what you think about this and also, since it seems that such a belief was unique really, only to that church, if anyone else holds this belief, or belongs to a Church that holds this belief, or knows of a Church, beside the Mormons, that holds this belief.

[Mr. Dr. Ralph]

Different denominations are most likely direct functions of events which took place during their foundings, such as the scientific revolution and philosophical movements, as well as simple politics.

To answer your question, they're basically all the same in that the concept of God adheres to dualism and that Jesus was divine and died for human sin and will come again. Denominations seem to reconcile particular philosophical or political problems which arise as a result of biblical interpretation, such as whether predestination is a legitimate idea.

[Stanislaw]

I think for the Roman Catholics that God is considered to be both. He is three beings, but infact one, three seperate entities but not seperate. (its a little hard to understand) but the belief is that God exists as God the Father, the Holy Spirit and as Jesus Christ (who would be corporeal).

and for the mormons aspect...technically any group that believes in Jesus Christ as the messiah is considered Christian (believers in Christ)

[Bookworm4Him]

Haven't really studied this much, but here goes. First off, there is the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit. I assume you are talking about God the Father? I do not believe that He has a fleshly body, but I believe He must have a form. I believe this because man was made in His image, as opposed to the other animals. Also, throughout the Bible it talks about His hands, feet, face, eyes, mouth, sitting even, so He has a human form, (or more correct, humans have a godly form) but He is not made of flesh and blood, for He is not a man. Flesh signifies being tied to this earth. When God created man, it was out of the earth, and then He breathed into him, which is out of heaven (his spirit) Also, when man dies, eventually his body turns back to dust. So God cannot be made of flesh, for He isn't of this world. He is for all time.

[weepingforloman]

I believe your overreading the references to God's body parts. It is very commonly referred to as "divine baby talk" (i.e., we can't comprehend God's form, so terms we understand are substituted).

[Unbeliever]

It's hard to see how God could be completely bodiless, given the number of body parts of his that are mentioned in the Bible:


Genesis 3:8 (voice)
And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Job 37:2-5 (voice)
Hear attentively the noise of his voice, and the sound that goeth out of his mouth.
He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightnings unto the ends of the earth.
After it a voice roareth: he thundereth with the voice of his excellency; and he will not stay them when his voice is heard.
God thundereth marvelously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend.

Exodus 15:8 (nostrils)
And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea.

Exodus 33:23 (hand, backparts and face)
And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my backparts: but my face shall not be seen.

Deuteronomy 8:3 (mouth)
And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Job 37:2 (voice and mouth)
Hear attentatively the noise of his voice, and the sound that goeth out of his mouth.

Deuteronomy 23:12-14 (walks)
Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad:
And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shall turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:
For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.

2 Chronicles 6:40 (eyes and ears)
Now, my God, let, I beseach thee, thine eyes be open, and let thine ears be attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.

Job 37:1 (heart)
At this also my heart trembleth, and is moved out of his place.

Isaiah 1:20 (mouth)
But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Psalm 18:9 (feet)
He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.

Psalm 36:7 (Wings)
How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O God! therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings.

Isaiah 7:20 (shaves)
In the same day shall the LORD shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard.

Jeremiah 27:5 (arm)
I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, by my great power and by my outstretched arm, and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me.

[Redzeppelin]

It's hard to see how God could be completely bodiless, given the number of body parts of his that are mentioned in the Bible:


Genesis 3:8 (voice)
And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Job 37:2-5 (voice)
Hear attentively the noise of his voice, and the sound that goeth out of his mouth.
He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightnings unto the ends of the earth.
After it a voice roareth: he thundereth with the voice of his excellency; and he will not stay them when his voice is heard.
God thundereth marvelously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend.

Exodus 15:8 (nostrils)
And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea.

Exodus 33:23 (hand, backparts and face)
And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my backparts: but my face shall not be seen.

Deuteronomy 8:3 (mouth)
And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Job 37:2 (voice and mouth)
Hear attentatively the noise of his voice, and the sound that goeth out of his mouth.

Deuteronomy 23:12-14 (walks)
Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad:
And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shall turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:
For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.

2 Chronicles 6:40 (eyes and ears)
Now, my God, let, I beseach thee, thine eyes be open, and let thine ears be attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.

Job 37:1 (heart)
At this also my heart trembleth, and is moved out of his place.

Isaiah 1:20 (mouth)
But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Psalm 18:9 (feet)
He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.

Psalm 36:7 (Wings)
How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O God! therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings.

Isaiah 7:20 (shaves)
In the same day shall the LORD shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard.

Jeremiah 27:5 (arm)
I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, by my great power and by my outstretched arm, and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me.

There's always the chance that God speaks in terms that we can understand and identify with. God as He is is probably pretty incomprehensible to beings limited to 3 dimensions plus time. There's a good chance that these descriptions are metaphoric (since much of our language to describe even earthly things/events is metaphoric).

[Unbeliever]

How then do we differentiate the portions of the Bible that are metaphorical from those that are not?


There's always the chance that God speaks in terms that we can understand and identify with.
There's also a chance that He doesn't, as in, for example, Revelation 22:20:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen."

Maybe the word "quickly" in that verse is merely metaphorical? Apparently so, as it's been 2000 years - not "quickly" by any defintion of the word that we humans understand.

[weepingforloman]

Surely someone of your persuasion (apparently atheist, given to trust in science) would consider that 2000 years is just a yawn compared to the years scientists are teaching us to associate with the earth?

Grace and Peace.

[JGL57]

Surely someone of your persuasion (apparently atheist, given to trust in science) would consider that 2000 years is just a yawn compared to the years scientists are teaching us to associate with the earth?

Grace and Peace.

So your god was just joking with humans by using the word "soon" - knowing how the majority would interpret it in human terms as actually "soon"?!?

That's pretty poor apologetics.

[weepingforloman]

I don't see how you interpret what I said that way.