Evolution of Androgeny

[Lote-Tree]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgyny

With the elimination of traditional Gender Roles in our society and the way men and women dress, behave, sexuality etc... is humanity heading for an androgenous future?

What say you?

[motherhubbard]

What an excellent question. I needed to get my husband some shaving cream the other day and the shelf was just full of beauty products for men. I couldn’t help but think how crazy that was. I think the change is happening because people will buy what they are sold. If the world is convinced that it’s cool for men to dress like women and it’s sexy for women to act like men then the masses will get really excited. If Paris Hilton went out with toothpaste on her eyebrows Crest would sell like hotcakes. If Crest could just get her to do that. All of this marketing is like fishing in a stocked pond. I don’t think that we will end up an androgynous society. I think that the economy will fail before that can happen and people will be more concerned with surviving than with trying to be what TV says is expected of them.

[Bakiryu]

Not for a long time. Since some people still asociate androgeny with homosexuality. And women are still concerned with their appearance (hence the Makeup!) Traditional gender roles are still honroed by most people, most of these with no culture or superior learning. But also famours, respected people (lawyers, hollywood actors).
An androgenous future would be better than the tradional view that we now possess. But it's still only a faraway thing.

[papayahed]

I don't see it happening. It may be more prevalent at certain periods of time but I see it more as a fad. ie. Metrosexuals, The 70's......can't really think of anything else except that star trek episode....hmmmm.

[Bakiryu]

there are always are androgynous bis. and angrogynous asexuals.

[kathycf]

Androgyny is already a part of our culture...at least in some degrees. Traditional "female" qualities such as sensitivity and caring are shared by men, while "male" qualities such as assertiveness and aggression are shared by women. I think those are "human" traits rather than belonging to either sex exclusively but modern thinking allows us a little more leeway in expressing those traits.

As for a complete drop in gender roles, I don't think that will happen for many years. Many people primarily derive their sense of identity as part of what it means to them to be a man or a woman. I think of myself as a woman first...then probably ethnicity, age, and so on. I am not saying everybody does this, but I think many do.

[SleepyWitch]

i like the idea of a gender free world.. i mean, if everybody had "feminine" and "masculine" types of behaviour etc. at their disposal, wouldn't we all come a bit closer to covering the full spectrum of human skills/behaviour etc...
e.g. most women still don't know how to be "assertive" while many men still find it hard to talk about their feelings etc. on the other hand being assertive all the time or talking psychobabble all day, would be boring...
i think by sticking to one gender role, people limit their potential..

but I don't see it happening any time soon, either...
i think Baki is right: people still kinda associate it with homosexuality

[Lote-Tree]

What leads to Androgeny?

Is it mainly due to Gender Confusion within an individual? or androgeny has a biological basis on the level of DNA. But what survival value would it have?

[Bakiryu]

This is the 21th century, survival of the species will still happen. Most androgenes don't think themselves as either male or female, so they have surgery to correct their bodies, others are mind androgenes who just don't define themselves by one gender no matter what their body looks like. These belives lead to androgeny.

Althought DNA sometimes makes a person look as he/she belonged to either sex it's just a matter of random genetic mixing.

[kathycf]

Um, I think transgender and transexual is quite a different phenomenom then androgyny...


Transgender people often say that they are trapped in the wrong body — they were born one sex but feel more like another. Health care professionals often describe this as “gender dysphoria,” literally, feeling confusion about one’s gender.
Gender dysphoria is considered a psychological condition often breeding confusion and unhappiness. In extreme cases surgery is required to bring the physical sex of the person in to line with their mental gender. Androgyny is NOT a psychological disorder, and can lead to positive changes in mental health.

Recent changes in the timing of life stages, the length of the lifespan, labor force participation, marriage and fertility are described. It is argued that highly-differentiated sex-role orientations are less suited to current conditions than are androgynous orientations, especially for women. If this is true, then developing androgynous sex-role orientations may promote greater adaptability and positive mental health.
Androgyny is more about mindset than feeling trapped in the wrong body. In other words, I have no identity issues regarding my gender. I identify myself as female quite comfortably, but consider some of my personality traits to be androgynous...in other words I can be assertive and speak out for myself ( traditionally masculine trait) but I can also be nurturing and "mother hen-ish" (more traditionally feminine trait. )

Well, I'm sorry to be so long winded and also to be a know it all. I am not trying to be a know it all, but psychology is one of my fields of study. Hmm, I think that previous statement sort of contradicts my "assertiveness" but oh well... ;)

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1471-6402.1979.tb00541.x?cookieSet=1&journalCode=pwqu

http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/Home.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=ERICSearchResult&newSearch=true&ERICExtSearch_Descriptor=%22Androgyny%22

http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/s15327752jpa8701_08?cookieSet=1&journalCode=jpa

http://www.hrc.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Coming_Out/Get_Informed4/Coming_Out_as_Transgender/Coming_Out_as_Transgender.htm

[Bakiryu]

Some people may consider me androgynous. I'm not shy but not that pushy. I can fix my car with closed eyes and stop to ask for directions if i'm lost. I prefer electronics to diamonds but I'm a good cook. If I'm mad i'll treathen you, but if i see you get hurt i'll kind and caring.

It can go both ways. I don't even know if I'm androgynous or not.

[SleepyWitch]

Androgyny is already a part of our culture...at least in some degrees. Traditional "female" qualities such as sensitivity and caring are shared by men, while "male" qualities such as assertiveness and aggression are shared by women. I think those are "human" traits rather than belonging to either sex exclusively but modern thinking allows us a little more leeway in expressing those traits.

what's so "masculine" or "feminine" about those qualities anyway?
e.g. I can be very protective and I'm always trying to defend people I like.. is that a "masculine" chivalry kind of behaviour or a feminine mother-hen thing?

i don't feel trapped in the wrong body, either. I'm perfectly happy with being a girl and I definitely wouldn't want to be a guy (especially not in physical terms), but I'm not going to let gender roles tell me what I can and can't do :)

[SleepyWitch]

wow, kathy, those articles sound really interesting. I'll see if i can get some of them from my library or at the links you posted (the Blackwell Synergy one opens a window of our univ library for some reason)

[Lote-Tree]

I can fix my car with closed eyes and stop to ask for directions if i'm lost.


Fixing cars with your Eyes Closed LOL :-) I can't do that at all even with my Eyes Open - and I am man :-)



I prefer electronics to diamonds but I'm a good cook.


Your husband will be a happpy cashful man :-)



If I'm mad i'll treathen you...


My gosh!!! I dare not meet you in a alleyway :-)



but if i see you get hurt i'll kind and caring.


That's a relief - I get hurt easily :-) ;-)

[SleepyWitch]

do you guys think I look like a bloke?
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/SleepyWitch/HPIM2815.jpg

lots of people mistake me for a guy for some reason... I do prefer to wear men's/unisex clothes, but apart from that, I don't think I look particularly guy-ish. I mean, I've got long hair, a big fat bum and everything...
the funny thing is, when/if I do wear a skirt and blouse people take me for a guy/dyke all the more!

this has really been bothering me lately. I mean, on the one hand I don't like wearing girls' clothes but on the other hand I don't want to be taken for a guy... not that there's anything wrong with guys, it just annoys me how blind people can be...
so I'm bent on revenge now... my evil agenda is to get some kind of androngynous outfit, tart myself up and confuse everyone so much that no-one will be able to tell whether I'm a billy-goat or a nanny. ideally this would result in men, women and sheep having crushes on me and I'd deliberately ignore them :D
well, there's a catch to that last point: I don't have the good looks it would take...
but anyway, do you guys have any suggestions? what's the standard androgenous kit? what kind of clothes and make-up should I wear to wreak maximum havoc? :D

[Bakiryu]

SleepyWitch, whoever mistakes you for a dude has serious vision troubles. Seriously!

But if you want to look androgenous dress up like an emo kid. I can't never tell if one of us is male or female anyway!

I pity the poor people and good luck!

[SleepyWitch]

you mean like this, for example?
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/4145/1sr8.jpg

http://bilder.lycos.de/d/23464-2/Tokio+Hotel_001.jpg
Bill Kaulitz of the German boy band Tokio Hotel.
i seriously thought he was a girl!

[Countess]

What leads to Androgeny?

Is it mainly due to Gender Confusion within an individual? or androgeny has a biological basis on the level of DNA. But what survival value would it have?

Psychological androgeny had to do with overidentification with the opposite sex. In women it results from poor bonding with the mother, in men with the father.

Physical androgeny is more a bi-product of one's genes.

Personally, I am androgynous. I have the mind of a man; a heart of a woman. I enjoy male company more than female company because the discussions are more interesting. I also bodybuild.

All that said, I am as straight as they come, so much so I joke that I am a gay man trapped in a woman's body. How's that for androgeny!

As far as survival goes, I don't see androgeny as an issue. Homosexuality is a better topic.

[Countess]

do you guys think I look like a bloke?


Absolutely freaking NOT. I look more like a guy than you. I might give you some good advice on cross-dressing though, since I used to do it to confuse all the gay men at the club (yes, it was hysterical. I could have pulled some really hot guys if I were a dude, LOL)

Suits are great - baggy suits with a tight black turtleneck underneath. That gives you the "pretty boy" look, which (being a girl) is all you can hope for (dressing butch will only make you look like a lesbian). Slick your hair back, and presto!

Insta-Queen!

[Bakiryu]

[QUOTE=SleepyWitch;384665]you mean like this, for example?
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/4145/1sr8.jpg
QUOTE]

Oh god, that's a man!? I love him! He's so HOT! *Faints while drooling*

[SleepyWitch]

[QUOTE=SleepyWitch;384665]you mean like this, for example?
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/4145/1sr8.jpg
QUOTE]

Oh god, that's a man!? I love him! He's so HOT! *Faints while drooling*
you've just summed up what millions of little teenage girls over here think :)
he's a 17 or 18 y/o guy and he's a virgin, waiting for his one true love.. who knows it could be you ;)

[Bakiryu]

where is that again? I'm moving!

He's prettier than me!

[SleepyWitch]

Germany

[Bakiryu]

Thank you! *packs bags*

Haven't you noticed that more and more of today's male singers look like girls?

[Countess]

Orlando Bloom is about as pretty as I'll get - that dude is way to femme. I'm afraid he might have a vagina.

[Bakiryu]

He looks manly to me, specially with the 'stache. For some reason most japanese singers look like women *shrugs* I wonder whY?