The human condition in literature

[audiobahn53]

Im thinking about writing an essay on the human condition and how humans are inherently evil, does anyone know of any good, books or authors that have written about this where I could get quotes from, or read up on the subject a bit more, so far im thinking about using Blood Meridian by McCarthy, Heart of Darkness by Conrad, Fight Club by Palahniuk, perhaps poems by T.S. Eliot, Works by Milton, maybe Darwin's Origin of Species indirectly and perhaps stuff by Tolstoy and Dostoevsky. Any input would be appreciated, thanks.

[Kroum]

Old Goriot by Balzak is the first book that came to mind. I have not read the entire Human Comedy but I would guess that it deals with the subject that you are interested in.

[Scheherazade]

Lord of the Flies by William Golding

The Plague by Albert Camus (Actually you can read some of Camus' articles regarding human condition; eg, 'The Myth of Sisyphus').

Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett

[Morten]

Neither Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Conrad or Camus would agree with the assertion that all human beings are inherently evil.

Tolstoy found religion, Dostoevskiy wrote The Brothers Karamazov, Conrad's point in Heart and Darkness is that evil has a place inside us, though not an exclusive one, and Camus was a humanist.

[Scheherazade]

Camus' and Beckett's writings are on human condition (whether they believed humanbeings are inherently evil or not).

[kandaurov]

Yeah, Scheherazade, Beckett all the way. His entire body of work seems to be solely concerned with the human condition.

I'd also add Joyce. And T. S. Eliot. The point is, if you want authors concerned with the human condition, you'll find a lot of matches in modernist literature. First War, In-between-wars, Second War and Postwar times are sure to have a great deal of books on the subject.

The 'human inherently evil' part confuses me a bit. I'd say that only the thoroughly pessimist writers would think such a thing. Beckett, and many others, believed the human condition to be frail, uncontrolable, impossible to improve, even pathetic, but not necessarily evil...

[Morrisonhotel]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned an obvious one (probably been done to death, mind you): Hamlet.

[NickAdams]

I would have said Macbeth.

[kobe1023]

Im thinking about writing an essay on the human condition and how humans are inherently evil, does anyone know of any good, books or authors that have written about this where I could get quotes from, or read up on the subject a bit more, so far im thinking about using Blood Meridian by McCarthy, Heart of Darkness by Conrad, Fight Club by Palahniuk, perhaps poems by T.S. Eliot, Works by Milton, maybe Darwin's Origin of Species indirectly and perhaps stuff by Tolstoy and Dostoevsky. Any input would be appreciated, thanks.


In The Prince, chapter 17, Machiavelli writes that people are generally "fickle, deceptive and deceiving." I'm not sure if thats any help to you. Good luck in your paper.

[Scheherazade]

The 'human inherently evil' part confuses me a bit. I'd say that only the thoroughly pessimist writers would think such a thing. Beckett, and many others, believed the human condition to be frail, uncontrolable, impossible to improve, even pathetic, but not necessarily evil...Golding's Lord of the Flies deals with this theme heavily.

[audiobahn53]

wow, thanks for all your replies, so basically where im standing now is T.S. Eliot, is good "First War, In-between-wars, Second War and Postwar times" modernist literatture would be a great place to start, McCarthy, and Fight Club might be good choices, Beckett, Machiavelli would be a good choice, Hamlet and Macbeth both could be used, Lord of the Flies is an excellent choice. I think Scheherazade is right, perhaps not that Humans are inherently evil, but perhaps that evil is in all of us, but humans are prone to temtation and to do evil things at times, but to also realize that somehwere there is also good in all of us too, perhaps I will offer the other side in my essay to, that there is good in there to, its just humans are more easily tricked into doing evil or wrong things, perhaps could use the bible as an example with Adam and Eve how Eve innocent thought to be perhaps good in her intentions was tricked by the serpent to do wrong, am I going anywhere with this or am I just getting off track? thnaks again.

[NotWoodhouse]

Anything by Thomas Hobbes

[Quark]

Even if I don't agree with you, here are some people who do:


Jonathan Swift is widely known for his misanthropic views: Gulliver's Travels or A Tale of a Tub.

The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells is a ring of Gyges story in which a person turns invisible and begins commiting crimes. The moral to this pessimistic tale by Wells is that people are inherently corrupt, and that society is the only thing keeping people in check.

King Lear creates the idea that people will fiercely attack one another unless a greater power intervenes and gives justice. Good will not naturally win. As Albany observes,
"If that the heavens do not their visible spirits
Send quickly down to tame these vile offences,
It will come,
Humanity must perforce prey on itself,
Like monsters of the deep." (IV, ii)

Kurt Vonnegut thought that people were destroying the earth while leading pointless, isolated lives. In Breakfast of Champions, he writes, "I really wonder what gives us the right to wreck this poor planet of ours".

Schopenhauer argued that self-preservation and pleasure are the guiding principles of humanity in world that denied those things. The result was a profound suffering which Schopenhauer thought was the basic human state.

Socrates belived that human beings are surrounded by their own misconceptions until they are liberated by death. This idea is especially prevalent in the Phaedo.


Kafka and Hobbes are also good suggestions.

[xaqxit]

No film suggestions yet, so I'll take a stab at it.

Some Shakespeare has already been mention, but Akira Kurosawa's Ran, which is a loose adaptation of King Lear, may fit your criteria and help you out a bit. It's a personal favorite of mine, and it's available on DVD through The Criterion Collection.

Most of Kurosawa's feature a combination of hope and bleakness, but Ran boasts only total darkness, at least in my estimation. His other Shakespare adaptations include Throne of Blood and The Bad Sleep Well (the former based on Macbeth and the latter, very loosely based on Hamlet). I've not seen The Bad Sleep Well and was unimpressed with Throne of Blood, though its widely considered a masterpiece.

Also be sure to check out Apocalypse Now which is clearly modeled after Heart of Darkness (but I see the literary work as far superior, thoguht he film is very good). I've also heard Aguirre: The Wrath of God is quite good and draws upon Conrad, but I've yet to see it, so I can't comment.

I hope that helps, I really can't think of any others.

[NickAdams]

its just humans are more easily tricked into doing evil or wrong things,

Evil is subjective and our thoughts of it vary with age. Not to mention that humans are obedient by nature. You should into the research of Kohlberg and Milgram. Kohlberg for morality and Milgram for obedience.

Are you also looking for films? I can list more than a few.

[xaqxit]

My mistake, the original poster didn't ask for films, I probably got this mixed up with some other thread. Apologies.

NickAdams, I'd be interested in hearing about such films, you can just PM me so we won't hijack this thread.

[audiobahn53]

My mistake, the original poster didn't ask for films, I probably got this mixed up with some other thread. Apologies.

NickAdams, I'd be interested in hearing about such films, you can just PM me so we won't hijack this thread.

no prob, thanks for the input, from all of you, I definitely have my work cut out for me.

"Even if I don't agree with you, here are some people who do:"

I dont necessarily agree with the statement that all humans are evil either, if I did I wouldnt really be asking people for help. I just thought that it might be anintresting subject to write about, and learn more about, anyways thanks again for all the help.

[blazeofglory]

Im thinking about writing an essay on the human condition and how humans are inherently evil, does anyone know of any good, books or authors that have written about this where I could get quotes from, or read up on the subject a bit more, so far im thinking about using Blood Meridian by McCarthy, Heart of Darkness by Conrad, Fight Club by Palahniuk, perhaps poems by T.S. Eliot, Works by Milton, maybe Darwin's Origin of Species indirectly and perhaps stuff by Tolstoy and Dostoevsky. Any input would be appreciated, thanks.

You will find Dostoevsky unbeatable. All that you are seeking for can be found compressively and expressively in his book. Any book of him will give you the stuff you want for your essay. Would you mind sharing your essay to me, for I will be more than happy to read the one after this communication.

[Virgil]

Im thinking about writing an essay on the human condition and how humans are inherently evil, does anyone know of any good, books or authors that have written about this where I could get quotes from, or read up on the subject a bit more, so far im thinking about using Blood Meridian by McCarthy, Heart of Darkness by Conrad, Fight Club by Palahniuk, perhaps poems by T.S. Eliot, Works by Milton, maybe Darwin's Origin of Species indirectly and perhaps stuff by Tolstoy and Dostoevsky. Any input would be appreciated, thanks.

Aren't all novels on the human condition? By "how humans are inherently evil" do you mean that all humans are capable of evil? By the way you phrase that one could assume that humans do evil things all the time. If you mean the possiblitly of human evil I think Conrad's Heart of Darkness is a fine choice.

[PeterL]

I think that it would be easier to demonstrate that humans are essentially good but have problems understanding the consequences of their actions. That is what Swift wrote about. , so he can't help you show that humans are inherently evil. Vonnegut was of the opinion that things happened and people just reacted, so he can't help you either. in Hamlet and MacBeth, Shakespeare pointed out that people made bad choices. The only book mentioned that would really back up your thesis is Lord of the Flies; although large parts of the Bible would also back you up.

[AuntShecky]

I dispute the thought that because Milton was a Puritan he believed that human beings were inherently "evil." If you back and read the poem("Paradise Lost, I mean)you will see the reason Eve was tempted by the serpent, and why Adam followed her (Hint-- and spoiler alert-- He did it through love of her!) And if you still maintain that we humans are evil, how would you explain Milton's sequel --
Paradise Regained? Would a Redeemer risk all for evil creatures-- it wouldn't be worth it, would it?
This "good-evil" either/or dichotomy goes back centuries.
It was called Jansenism, and condemned as a heresy.
Auntie

[colin r.s.]

If I were you I would stick to Shakespeare, specifically Hamlet; I like "how all occasions." "To be/not," which I think if one were to spend an exhoritant, almost morose amount of time with could answer your questions. If you are looking for a more un-conventioal or, I dare say, cliche'd writer then I am not much help.