Punishment

[bazarov]

Couple of days, I was reading some favorite chapters from Brothers Karamazov and one thing again crossed my mind.
Ivan and Alyosha concluded correctly that kids cannot suffer, at least not till age of 8; till then they are pure good.
Church is telling to us that because of sins of ancestors, 4 to 9 generations of scions can suffer; and it includes everyone. I find that very very unfair; why would anybody suffer or being punished for others acts, no matter were they good or bad?
That gives me back on limbus infatium. It's hard for me to believe that it was only recently neglected(OK, 40 years ago, but last week was publicly announce)...After almost 700 years...

[Lote-Tree]

Living with the consequences of your actions in time is True Punishment.

[Redzeppelin]

Couple of days, I was reading some favorite chapters from Brothers Karamazov and one thing again crossed my mind.
Ivan and Alyosha concluded correctly that kids cannot suffer, at least not till age of 8; till then they are pure good.
Church is telling to us that because of sins of ancestors, 4 to 9 generations of scions can suffer; and it includes everyone. I find that very very unfair; why would anybody suffer or being punished for others acts, no matter were they good or bad?
That gives me back on limbus infatium. It's hard for me to believe that it was only recently neglected(OK, 40 years ago, but last week was publicly announce)...After almost 700 years...

The Biblical statement that the "sins of the father" are passed on to the "third and fourth generations" does not mean that the children are punished for the sins of the parents; it means that sins carry with them consequences that children may have to deal with - we see this today: children of parents who divorce are more likely to get divorced; children of parents who smoke are more likely to smoke. I don't think God actively punishes as much as He allows the natural consequences of our choices to fall. As adults, our choices affect our children - no two ways about it.

[bazarov]

Your answer crossed my mind long ago, and it looks like too simple and obvious; at least for me. I don't think it's such a normal and easy...My idea was that we will be punished in eternity, together with some our own sins. But I never see that as a fair, and God is fair; as they say.

[Countess]

Short, sweet Biblical answer (hopefully):

There are two types of sin: there is "sin nature", which we inherited through Adam and which is carried generation to generation through genetics "The wages of sin is death". We all die b/c we are born "into sin" in that we are born with a sin nature.

Then there is sin - personal acts of omission and comission. Paul says in Romans (paraphrased) before he knew the law, he was alive, but once the law came, he died. By that he means he was innocent as a child b/c he did not know the law, but once he understood and acted against it, he sinned (which is spiritual death, if you will).

It's a grey area, but I think its rather simplistic (at least from a Christian standpoint) to say "All children are good until Age 8." Some children seem to be born with wicked natures while others seem born into goodness. And, some children are born with good natures but become bad through their environment and vice-versa.

[chaplin]

Couple of days, I was reading some favorite chapters from Brothers Karamazov and one thing again crossed my mind.
Ivan and Alyosha concluded correctly that kids cannot suffer, at least not till age of 8; till then they are pure good.
Church is telling to us that because of sins of ancestors, 4 to 9 generations of scions can suffer; and it includes everyone. I find that very very unfair; why would anybody suffer or being punished for others acts, no matter were they good or bad?


I agree that both people before the age of 8 cannot sin, and that, not in any way will, the sins of your ancestors affect yourself. An example of the opposite of this is the Catholic practice of infant baptism, which completely goes against it. This practice concludes that a child is born sinful merely because he/she was created by sexual intercourse, and because of Adam's fall: all men are born in sin.

The philosophical, let alone theological, reasonings for this seem, to me, to be completely erroneous and commit a unconscionable violence against human reason, as erroneous and unconscionable as the philosophy of the creeds that created the concept of the Trinity.