Man and the universe.

[hbacharya]

:yawnb: :smash: :D
Man wonders, thinks and discovers for himslef the meaning of life, creation, God, heaven and all the rest of nonesense. But can he arrive at? At where he wants to reach. About the creation, the neaning of it, and the creator if any. He swirls himslef in a whirl of imagination and comes across metaphors. God is a metaphor. For he has the power of imagination and can take no breathe of rest and roams and roams thru clouds of imagination but something must solace his mind, and something he must arrive at to take refuge in. Maybe that is God. Having said this, I am not an atheist, nor a beleiver. I am always amazed at all that I see, and there is a series of questions that spring up from the well of my imagination.

I know for certainty that i will go adrift endlessly in this whirlpool of imagination, a dust I am, may be insignificant stardust in this vast universe. Yet i feel I am powerful, the universe compressed into a tiny spec.

Thinkers, philosophers, writers inspire me and propel my abilities of thinking, imahinating capacities. Yet I feel I am an unknown creature as a bird that perches on a bough which may wonder at the cycle of season that at one time renders the tree he is in the beuty of spring and at another the tree sheds thier flowers and leaves and stands like a fleshless skeleton.

I enjoy thinking and imagining thinngs and I know the mystery of the universe goes on and man can not fully explore. At times I take refuge in religious texts, in Gurus but I can not stop from being skeptical.

I always want to be open, honest, and earnest. I am attentive and choose to discuss, share ideas.

Regarding God, religion, spirituality I have no deep attchment. But i am a firm beleiver in humanity. That intersts me, and inspires me to do something. I am not apprehensive of the fact that by not beinbg a beleiver I can not reserve space in heaven after i die, but what pains me is i if I die without doing something for humanity, I will think i lives worthlessly and meaninglessly.

That is what I believe in. I regret sounding rather arrogant

[cuppajoe_9]

To quote myself for convenience:


Astronomy tells us that if God exists, he is the caretaker of a nearly infinite piece of property with some rather quarrelsome inhabitants packed into an infinitesimal corner of it. If such a landlord has a plan for his property, it is difficult to imagine the hairless apes of the Spiral Arm holding its success or failure in the balance, no matter how smart we seem to think we are.If there is no God, as I suspect, the picture is somewhat bleaker.

[Bakiryu]

Man is nothing compared to the unniverse, a drifting molecule of floating stardust. I see the unniverse vast and emcompasing, reducing everything else into seconds. Our lives are miliseconds in the life of a star.
There's no heaven and there's no hell, only knowledge as we move in a series of live to attain enlightnment. This is what i believe in. (just a part. downsized)

[HannibalBarca]

Man is a fearful servant and a terrible master.

[hbacharya]

We fear the Estalishment. Our cerobro is stuffed with a certain fixed opinion. God, religion, particular values, and the rest of nonesense. We never get surprised at the wonder of nature, at the vastness of the universe. We stick to sterotyped ideas, to somebody' s beleif. When we ask at a very tender age, who made this universe? We are answered: God. We are told plants and animals are created by god. God purifies us, and if we have sinned by praying we get purged or cleansed.
Is this a good notion that we sin and thenafter pray to get cleansed? This whole notion of God, heaven and the rest of attributes revolving round religion is fixitious, with no solid ground. Yet i can not say always the way marx said religion is an opium.

I do not decline all religious texts and their contexts. There are certain elements that are vital to us, certain values, particularly ethical and moral values. Yet I do disagree. I do not beleive they are sacred texts and unquestionble. Some are really sacred, but we can question prior to assimilating.

In Hindusim the Vedas are sacred books, and at times they are called the oldest scriptures. They are philosophically very deepening and profound. Most of the texts are really valuable. yet when it comes to a question of casteism I question the validity of it in our context, and I happen to weigh them in empirical scales. yes I do despite my conservative friends and relatives decry and become highly reproachful of me.

This tendency of questioiong authorites is something is ingrained in my mind. This is out of my habit of arguing, and I had to enrage many of my seniors, yet this mental faculty that can not take things for granted is very strong.This is implanted in me.

I simply wonder at all that behold. I seek refuge in marxism, at one time and at another in Buddism. Some times, the teachings of Christ appeal to me, and at others, the Vedas and Puranas. The Tao path is something i find highly absorbing.

I am therefore not a theist, not I resort to atheism. I am at liberty to think th e way i choose.

But one thing knocks me. That is the convention of institutionalizing a particular faith is really a bad notion. All man made disasters-war, conflict, genocides, and all the rerst of evil things happen thru our endeavors to organize our beleifs.

The final point is we must be open, and must never choose to preach or teach if we are confused. Mistakes happen therein. What really angers me is when some of the so called Gurus, religious teachers who are assigned to show us the Path towards enlightment, whereas they in their priavte lives live differently than the way they teach.

That is why I love to question, religion, spirituality, the way our priests, popes, and pundits preach and live along with the very question concerning the existence of God. I am honest and therefore skeptical. R U ?

[simon]

I just wanted to comment on your picture there HannibalBarca, I like that mosaic of Alexander the Great, I only wish the origional was preserved as well.

In relation to this thread my only comment is: humans don't seem to be very good at what we attribute humanity to be.

[hbacharya]

Imagine there are two men. One beleives in God and the other in Charity. Both are not one and the same. Charity is something that is done out of humaity, out of a sense of servitude, out of generosity.

Charity is something that elevates our heart. We will leap up heavenward and Godliness. Heaven and godliness has little to do with the one churhches and religious institutions define them. No. Godliness is something that has to do with communion with this universe. A sense of oneness with the rest of others, and the fact that richness, poverty, colors nationalites, religions, cultures are attributes that all get blown up. They are baser elements, illusions.
We all are human beings and we share this planet commonly. This is a common garden and we must cultivate and make it more arable and more beutiful.

coomunism at times seem more appealing, yet their tool that is violence is something that repeals peace.

Capitalism is something that provides cpaital and at times more employment and at others exploitation and oppression as well.

We need a system that have certain elements of communism where equality and equity is advocated. Where private hoardings are despised.

To return to the topic of discussion- I adore a person who is an atheist and yet involves himself in a variety of chaitable works. I condemn a person who is a great beleiver and who lives double lives. One as a priestly role and gives sermons and lessons of moralism and lives lke a luxuriant.

I become highly disdainful at times of those who out of arrogance and vanity show godliness publicly yet privately they have a different life style.

I too wonder at the creation of this world. The infinity of this cosmos is something that stirs my thoughts and I may seek spirituality and that may satisfy my intellect, yet if I confine myself to an antanglement of such ideas and keep myself bereft of some better ideas to serve humanity i feel I am misled or erroneously driven.

Conclusively, charity, humanity, service are issues that appeal to me and that fascinate me. God, heaven and religions are seconded by these attributions.
Fundamentalism and fanaticism are some of the attributs I idecry.

Sharing with you.

[hbacharya]

Scince is what civilized us from barbarism to civilization thru evolution. Scince started with ccuriosity and skepticims. It has been always in conflict with religion. Relogious thoughts range from paganism to monotheism, to panthesim and the like. We have a multitude of creeds and beleifs and schools of thought.
Now in this twentieth century we live amidst a multiciplity of beleifs, creeds and we are simply in the midst of throngs of beleivers and nonbeleiver tron beween spirituality and materilism.

A child is torn between two sets of beleifs: One he is taught that God created everything. There is heaven. Meantime he reads books of science. Darbinism wherefrom he learned that we are here through a never ending evolutionary process. We evolved thru evolutionary process from simple unicellular creatures to multi-celleular creatures with sophisticately and highly developed organs and cerebral systems or mechanisms of brains.

As a result we became thinking animals. The rest of other animal belings, our co - fellows remained pushed behind in this development pocesses.

That animals wonder at the creation of the world is a question we can not answer. And what goes thru their minds when they see the rising sun and the beuty of the setting sun is something hard to understand.

Onething always bugs my mind is why we human beings always invent so many gods and the question of heaven and hell intrigues our minds and not theirs

I am therefore curious and not a strong beleiver and not even a non veleiver out of any philosophical propositions.

I am simply inquisitive about everything, about God, the universe and the rest of things.

Please share your views.

[JCamilo]

Science is not what civilized us from barbarism or civilization watever meaning you want to give to them. It was culture, and this includes art, religion, legal systems, politics, ethic and morals, philosophy and science.
Neither science have been always in conflict with religion, in fact, at some momments there wasn't even a differenciation between science and knowledge - and religion held a lot of knowledge of the world at some point.
I really doubt children are in doubt between anything and Darwin, simple because they do not read Darwin. Darwin is something not easy to grasp.

[Lote-Tree]

I am simply inquisitive about everything, about God, the universe and the rest of things.


So your question is?

[Orionsbelt]

42.... sorry low hanging fruit!

[Scheherazade]

How many roads must a man walk down?

[hbacharya]

Sounds enegmatic. Does't it? We live in an epoch wherein faith faces distortion and derogations. We are less attchaed to a world of faith and materialism is looming large on us. Is it s symbol of degredation? I am skeptical of this statement.

Now we are in a venerable position particularly ecologically. Now we are more capable of warring with one another. Man appears more aggressive. Man has destroyed the natural habiotat and tens of thousands of species have disappeared, many endagered and still many are on the verge of disappearing if we keep on losing our commonsense and trigger deforestation.

Man seems going forward, is regressing backwards. We think it is out of the lack of faith, and people are getting more and more materialistically inclined. But not so. Religion is fake. Please observe natural phenomena. In nature there is perfect balance. In natature all are in harmony.Orderliness reigns there. You may say nature rersorts to voilence. Mighty ones rule over weaker ones. There is a bloody tug of war, and survival of the fittest totally applies there. This notion is some thing i do not beleive in. In nature animals do not kill for fun. No hunger urges it to pounce over another. In fact this creation is so complexly interwoven and is so intricate to comprehend we can not understand the mystery of it. Yes no creature can not survive if it does not live on or feed on another creature. This is the truth. But the point there is a question of doing this killing rationally, sensibly and wisely. Yest they do it impecciably in nature.

Man is the worst creature. It has many laws, and it has framed many moral codes and codes of conducts but he keeps on breaking them out of vanity .
Is religion protecting man. No religions have duped and doomed him. History endorses it. Death causalites resulted from advocacies for religions outnumber deaths from the rest of other causes.

But I may sound rather arrogant and conceited. Maybe so. But I am honest to my words. I can not totally do away with faith, nor can I hold it firmly the way my ancestors did. Unarguably I am torn between.

History has in store many incidences and religions account for them more than anything else. See Hitler. See suicidal bombers. See fundamentalists .
Religions have been metaphors to reveal or examplify the devil within us. Hitler thru his Chrisitnity bedeviled the world with vile and villany.
Hindu fundamentalists ripped up the bowels of tens of thousand muslims. So did the Islamic world in the name of zihad.

Touch your heart and think a little over this point. Can you still be attached to religions. I do not decry it if you confine it within your personal domain or imprision it within a zone of your privacy it is OK, but the moment you strive to institunalize it it breaks thru every barrier and becomes destructive.

Faith sounds alluring, and people choose to take solace with religion in this world wherein he faces innumerble bends and sufferings. It seems to heal our wounds. Yet faith is something that estranges humans and distances them from one another.

Yes I am not sure, to be honest, about all these matters. I wonder at the mystery of this cosmos, this ever expanding and contracting universe, and light years far statoned constilations and galaxies of stars. All this amazes me. Science alone can not satisfy my inqusitiveness. I have to take refuge in faith. At times I think there is a source of consciouness. Maybe God is that source or provider of unit and cosmic consciousness.

Our Scriptures-the Gita, the Bible ? I am unsure. There words of wisdom in the old testament. So is the new testament teeming with wonderful anecdotes. The buddha is a source of inspiration to me and so is Jesus, and krishna, nevertheless. Yet the agnotist in me becomes manifest at times.

The solution, the conclusion - faith or science. Both are incomplete witout each other. What should I turn to untimatly - Faith or science? Not both. But to question.

This is my predicament, and hope i am not singled out in this quandary. I tthink you too undergo simlar dillemas. Do you?

[Lote-Tree]

What should I turn to untimatly - Faith or science? Not both.


Why not both?

[Lote-Tree]

How many roads must a man walk down?

He does not have to walk he can fly. So "road" is a irrelevant question :-)

[hbacharya]

We all are in quest of something, endlessly and know no limits. We want to reach a summit. A summit of what? Of everything under the sun. Name. Fame. Mony. power and the rest of things. We are tireless and undefeatable seekers. We choose to land somewhere, where our sense of satisfaction or pursuit of happiness or attainment materilizes.

But where? In God? In power? In wealth? In a limitless empire? In all these domains we seek prominence. This endoreses the fact that we are immortals and though death lays its cold hand on us an dwe are very aware of this truth, the undeniable and inescapable truth, yet we perpetuate seeking unafraid unabatedly.
A million generations have passed away, and we see deaths everwhere and a great deal of violece, and we are uncertain about our future with newer and newer inventions of sophisticated weapons, bombs and the rest of destructive things. Yet we are alive and forget everything and do not cease to seek something.

God is a part of our sense of universality, immortality, an embodyment of our hope and beleif in something that is indestructible.

We all are seekers. The search is what occupies us and what sets us in motion and what activates us. This hope is what enlivens us eternally.

Today the world is torn between beleivers and non beleivers. This does not matter which side we take on as long as we keep on seeking and inquiring.
It matters when we end up seeking and inquiring. Theism and atheism does not mean we knowingly sided with a particualr way or are convinced of the fact that we arrive at truth. No, both theists and atheists are seekers and skeptical and are ceaselessly inqueiring. Even marxists may have a sense of religioisity, but they do not choose to succomb or yield out of vanity and pride.

Yes we are in endless pursuit of truth, and seeking and I am thru this writing broadening a horizon of knowledge.

One thing is true that our inqueiry into truth never ends, and we never cease persevering quest. Whether you belong to a community of scientists or laymen, or belong to a tribe of primitive society, I am convinced of the fact that there exists no differecne in ranges of your knowlede and those of the tribe. And if exists at all that is superficial or skin-deep.

In fact we all are seekers on the same plane, for all our quests and findings are likened to the quest or flight of a small tiny insect which may brag over having flewn high, but we can visualize its range.

[Lote-Tree]

We all are in quest of something, endlessly and know no limits. We want to reach a summit. A summit of what? Of everything under the sun. Name. Fame. Mony. power and the rest of things. We are tireless and undefeatable seekers. We choose to land somewhere, where our sense of satisfaction or pursuit of happiness or attainment materilizes.

But where? In God? In power? In wealth? In a limitless empire? In all these domains we seek prominence. This endoreses the fact that we are immortals and though death lays its cold hand on us an dwe are very aware of this truth, the undeniable and inescapable truth, yet we perpetuate seeking unafraid unabatedly.
A million generations have passed away, and we see deaths everwhere and a great deal of violece, and we are uncertain about our future with newer and newer inventions of sophisticated weapons, bombs and the rest of destructive things. Yet we are alive and forget everything and do not cease to seek something.

God is a part of our sense of universality, immortality, an embodyment of our hope and beleif in something that is indestructible.

We all are seekers. The search is what occupies us and what sets us in motion and what activates us. This hope is what enlivens us eternally.

Today the world is torn between beleivers and non beleivers. This does not matter which side we take on as long as we keep on seeking and inquiring.
It matters when we end up seeking and inquiring. Theism and atheism does not mean we knowingly sided with a particualr way or are convinced of the fact that we arrive at truth. No, both theists and atheists are seekers and skeptical and are ceaselessly inqueiring. Even marxists may have a sense of religioisity, but they do not choose to succomb or yield out of vanity and pride.

Yes we are in endless pursuit of truth, and seeking and I am thru this writing broadening a horizon of knowledge.

One thing is true that our inqueiry into truth never ends, and we never cease persevering quest. Whether you belong to a community of scientists or laymen, or belong to a tribe of primitive society, I am convinced of the fact that there exists no differecne in ranges of your knowlede and those of the tribe. And if exists at all that is superficial or skin-deep.

In fact we all are seekers on the same plane, for all our quests and findings are likened to the quest or flight of a small tiny insect which may brag over having flewn high, but we can visualize its range.

I suggest you find a good women and all your problems will be sorted ;)
In women you shall find an Infinity of possibility and the limitations of existence :-)

[hbacharya]

Truth is nothing but a perception of something, a projection of your mind and finally an illusion of what it is not as ome of the great eastern thinkers-Shankara
Charya. One important development I see in the post cold war period is asimilation of ideas, and this was possible out of the bradening of perception.

Now one important thing charcteristic of the west is they are slowly breaking out of the coccon of their Chrstiandom which is a good indicator.

The Bilble is really a great book, a repository of inspiration, a source of moral an d virtouos things save for a few things in the old testaments that clash with our domains of thought. Jesus was a torch bearer and he was a savoir of mankind.

Yet there are certain things for which westerners look to the east. The veda is a resoirvoir of knowledge. Buddhism is an advanced philosophy, even a great rationalist and thinker like Russel who publicly declared he was not a Christian and spoke a lot critically of Christianly was a great admirer of Buddhism where in he visualized great elements of truth. Einstein was amazed at the profundity of ideas in the teachings of the Buddha.

I am not writing in defense of or critiquing a particular reason in comparison with the other, and I do not do so and no religions appeal to me. Having said that the Scriptures, the original scriptures inteterest me immesely. The Veda, the Gita, the Bible, the koran all appeal to me immemsely. But the way they are presented and misrepresnted and miinterpreted saddens me. And what saddens me is when people take side of or make use of them to serve a particular purpose and now this is their political purpose. That is how fundamentalism born.

Yet I keep on reading these great books and can not stop from getting inspirations from krishna,Jesus and the Buddha. But i feel alergic to Hinduism, Buddhism and Christinaity.

We all set ourselves in pursuit of truth. Truth is something relative. I lately am glued to nonduslistic philosophy. Shankaracharya, the propounder of ths philosophy. He construed that thi s world is like a spider's web. To put this more lucidly, it is like a piece of rope we mistake for a snake in the dark. For there is a layer of Maya-illusion and our vision is flawed and we can not see.

All that appears is untrue, and transient and insubstantial. All that remains ultimately is Brahma.
Truth we see is not necessarily true, and we have to realize this fact.

This is an idea of one of the great eastern seers. And I share this with you for open discussion.

[blazeofglory]

Truth is nothing but a perception of something, a projection of your mind and finally an illusion of what it is not as ome of the great eastern thinkers-Shankara
Charya. One important development I see in the post cold war period is asimilation of ideas, and this was possible out of the bradening of perception.

Now one important thing charcteristic of the west is they are slowly breaking out of the coccon of their Chrstiandom which is a good indicator.

The Bilble is really a great book, a repository of inspiration, a source of moral an d virtouos things save for a few things in the old testaments that clash with our domains of thought. Jesus was a torch bearer and he was a savoir of mankind.

Yet there are certain things for which westerners look to the east. The veda is a resoirvoir of knowledge. Buddhism is an advanced philosophy, even a great rationalist and thinker like Russel who publicly declared he was not a Christian and spoke a lot critically of Christianly was a great admirer of Buddhism where in he visualized great elements of truth. Einstein was amazed at the profundity of ideas in the teachings of the Buddha.

I am not writing in defense of or critiquing a particular reason in comparison with the other, and I do not do so and no religions appeal to me. Having said that the Scriptures, the original scriptures inteterest me immesely. The Veda, the Gita, the Bible, the koran all appeal to me immemsely. But the way they are presented and misrepresnted and miinterpreted saddens me. And what saddens me is when people take side of or make use of them to serve a particular purpose and now this is their political purpose. That is how fundamentalism born.

Yet I keep on reading these great books and can not stop from getting inspirations from krishna,Jesus and the Buddha. But i feel alergic to Hinduism, Buddhism and Christinaity.

We all set ourselves in pursuit of truth. Truth is something relative. I lately am glued to nonduslistic philosophy. Shankaracharya, the propounder of ths philosophy. He construed that thi s world is like a spider's web. To put this more lucidly, it is like a piece of rope we mistake for a snake in the dark. For there is a layer of Maya-illusion and our vision is flawed and we can not see.

All that appears is untrue, and transient and insubstantial. All that remains ultimately is Brahma.
Truth we see is not necessarily true, and we have to realize this fact.

This is an idea of one of the great eastern seers. And I share this with you for open discussion.

I wonder why were you banned. There is a wealth of ideas therein your postings. Why do you not request to waive the ban. You are indeed enriching us with your superlative ideas. There is variety and in your ideas.