Spelling

[Shea]

A rather interesting story.

My History of the English Language instructor today was talking to us about standardized spelling and how Middle English didn't have it. They pretty much spelled things however they liked, it wasn't even standardized within the same text. A friend of hers grew up going to this "different" school where spelling wasn't taught at all. She says that he's a very smart person but has a really hard time now that he's trying to standardize his spelling. He can even spell a word such as "one" it winds up looking like "wun".

How crazy is that?!:eek:

[baddad]

I purchased another dictionary today. I have dictionaries scattered all around the rooms of my house. If I could I would give each and every person on earth a dictionary of their choice. Words are gold, communication critical. Not viewing vocabulary/spelling as important enough to teach at ALL levels borders on criminal, another way to keep the proletariat in the gutter.....

[Koa]

Well I'm not surprised anyway, seeing how nowaday's kids spell... even if they were taught, or tried to!

As you might know, my attitude towards spelling mistakes is quite 'racist', as I can't stand them... I think I said before I noticed how easier it is for an English native speaker to spell some words wrong, because the rules of English spelling are quite crazy ;), and people may write something according to what they hear... While I know my spelling is in most cases correct because in my mind all letters are fully pronounced in my own way, and don't forget any of them :D (I actually didnt make many spelling mistakes in my own langauge either but that's much easier cos we pronunce things exactly as they're written, there are a few mistakes children make but as I was reading a lot I never did... Seeing an adult making those mistakes is something that give a very bad idea of that person...)

Oh baddad, I like dictionaries too, I can't persuade myself to throw away old ones when I buy new better ones, and I adore the pocket ones... I'm talking moslty of bilingual ones though....

[Sancho]

I can't spel to save my life. I think its something you’re born with. Wasn't some one on this forum studying the history of the English language? I’d really like to know how (or when) the written language got so separated from the spoken language.

[Koa]

Oh damn I'm sure I've read about how that happened... sort of... but I forgot... well I can recall something but I'd like to re-read that but I lent the book to someone...
Something to do with the quick development of the language at some point, and foreign (French, Latin) influences...or stuff like that.
Sancho, I dont think it's something you're born with... I still think reading you fix the form of the word... But maybe not in English... I couldnt believe it when I saw people spelling 'forgottOn', but then hearing them pronounce it, I realised how easy it happens... Bah, I'm used to pronouncing my vowels clearly so I know where to put them ;) :D

[Sancho]

Koa, I’m sure you’re correct when you tie reading to spelling; I’d add that repetition and recency are probably the two most important elements of memory. But I also think that dyslexia plays a role in how well one spells, and I’m sure that it’s fairly wide spread in the population. You know, 5 out of 4 of the men in my family are dyslexic.

If you think that was groaner, how ‘bout this one: Did you hear about the insomniac, dyslexic, agnostic?....

He’d lay awake nights wondering if there’s a dog.

All I can say is, “Sorry, but I couldn’t help myself.”

[simon]

Spelling is over rated.

[emily655321]

Feel like some light reading? It's all here:

http://angli02.kgw.tu-berlin.de/lexicography/data/B_HIST_EU.html

[Shea]

Originally posted by Sancho
I can't spel to save my life. I think its something you’re born with. Wasn't some one on this forum studying the history of the English language? I’d really like to know how (or when) the written language got so separated from the spoken language.

Hey Sancho, that was me!:) Middle English (ME) spelled words as they sounded. ME went from the Norman invasion in 1066 to the beginning of the 16th century. But it was when the printing press was invented at the end of the 15th century that spelling and speech seperated. The press is what standardized spelling, but then we had The Great Vowel Shift (which I haven't yet fully studied) so now we pronounce things different then we spell them.

Ever seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail? When they made fun the those English knights (pronounce every letter like "kenigits") that was actually how that word was prononced in Middle England!:D :p

[Sancho]

Hah, Shea, that’s killing me. I’ve probably seen Monty Python’s Holy Grail a hundred times and it never occurred to me (I never k-new) that’s what the kenigits were talking about. I’m such a knave. I’ll get the knack of this yet. --- Hey, this is fun.
I’m going to have to look into the Great Vowel Shift. It sounds like a fascinating subject. Great, Grate; yet Treat; Break, Brake; Steak, Stake, yet speak.

[simon]

Aaah Monty Python, a staple in the life of the infirm.

[imthefoolonthehill]

@Den so... were you interested in the 'Geek' language?

[emily655321]

Speaking of Geek languages... any of thou lewdies govereet in those real horrorshow and bezoomny slovos of starry Mr. Burgess?

(Embarrassed as all hell with myself. Tsk tsk I need to get a jeezny... I mean life.)

[Koa]

Do you mean a clockwork orange? Did it also a have a weird spelling? I know about the words but... I need to see an original version of that book one day...

Btw welcome emily, I noticed you only now and I wondered how could that happen (but it appears you registered not long ago ;)) :D

[imthefoolonthehill]

yes... those words did come from Clockwork orange... Koa ... thanks for sparking my memory

[papayahed]

how apropo.

[Sweets America]

I wonder about something: I have heard that in some English schools they allowed pupils to write in text language! Is that true?!


My History of the English Language instructor today was talking to us about standardized spelling and how Middle English didn't have it. They pretty much spelled things however they liked, it wasn't even standardized within the same text.

Yes, I've seen that too when we were studying Shakespeare.

[Niamh]

I'm pretty bad a spelling. But these days i find myself battling the new habit of Txt lingo and it getting into regular letters etc. I generally have to start over again. When i first got a mobile phone i made it a point to spell everything correctly instead of "R u N work at d Wkd?" but eight years later and i've fallen ito the trap. I think its very important that people do spell correctly.


I wonder about something: I have heard that in some English schools they allowed pupils to write in text language! Is that true?!



Yes, I've seen that too when we were studying Shakespeare.

I dont think thats true Sweets.

[Sweets America]

I dont think thats true Sweets.

Well it's a student in my class who said that to our teacher and the teacher did not seem surprised by it. Some other students also said they had heard it, so I wonder.

[kilted exile]

I used to be able to spell, then I started Secondary School and it was very much the vogue to focus on the idea being correct rather than the spelling/grammer resulting in my pathetic spelling & grammar now.

[Shea]

Wow,this is a blast from the past! I'd totally forgotten about that story.

I was in an elevator today for the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino. They'd fixed a quote from that Prince song, "Baby you're much too fast" high around the wall of it. Except that they spelled "you're" - "you'r". At least they remembered the apostrophe.

[Sweets America]

I think that might be what I was talking about, but it's not in England, it's in New Zeland!:p
From Wiki:

The New Zealand Qualifications Authority (NZQA) has announced that a shorter version of English known as txt language will be acceptable in the external end of year exams. Txt language is where words are shortened for easier mobile phone usage, e.g. txt is for text, lol is for laugh out loud, brb is for be right back, etc.

Txt language has been approved if the marker can see that the paper "clearly shows the required understanding", however the NZQA still advises not to use it. Bali Haque, deputy chief executive of NZQA, said: "Students should aim to make their answers as clear as possible. Markers involved in assessing NCEA (National Certificate of Educational Achievement) exams are trained professionals, experienced in interpreting the variety of writing styles and language uses encountered during the marking process," Mr Haque is confident that marker will understand txt language.

Educators and students alike are divided saying that it will be easier and others saying it could damage the English language.

So, I have not been hallucinating.

[Tersely]

But these days i find myself battling the new habit of Txt lingo

Oh...guilty as charged. Its an awful habit to get into and worse to get out. Spelling is important...expecially in job searches. I had a co-worker spell "awkward" as "auuqard" and theres no need to tell you she didnt get that coveted managers job. They couldn't trust her to send emails to corporate. Hilarious but unfortunate.

[Shea]

I work a queue of tickets at work and have to contact my customers via instant message because they are in call centers. Some of the responses that I get are very cryptic! It occasionally takes me a minute to figure out what exactly they were trying to say. Every once in a while, I just have to ask them.

[Lily Adams]

A friend of hers grew up going to this "different" school where spelling wasn't taught at all. She says that he's a very smart person but has a really hard time now that he's trying to standardize his spelling. He can even spell a word such as "one" it winds up looking like "wun".

Whoah! Where was that?!

I must admit I can be a bit strict on spelling and grammar.

[Shea]

Whoah! Where was that?!

I must admit I can be a bit strict on spelling and grammar.

lol, I barely remember my proff telling that story let alone where he went to school.

My coworkers, being a bunch of IT guys, tease me sometimes because they know I taught English. So I correct their grammar for them when they say "good" when they should have used "well", or when they say "had went" instead of "had gone".

[papayahed]

I have such a problem with grammar. I have to write letters and reports for work and I'm always looking up grammar rules. I wish they had adult grammar classes, I haven't found any as of yet.

[Virgil]

A rather interesting story.

My History of the English Language instructor today was talking to us about standardized spelling and how Middle English didn't have it. They pretty much spelled things however they liked, it wasn't even standardized within the same text. A friend of hers grew up going to this "different" school where spelling wasn't taught at all. She says that he's a very smart person but has a really hard time now that he's trying to standardize his spelling. He can even spell a word such as "one" it winds up looking like "wun".

How crazy is that?!:eek:

That is crazy and terrible. The school has ruined that person. My history with spelling is that I was always a terrible speller growing up, but then improved quite a bit in college, and then they came out with spell check on computers and I've regressed back. As many people can see from my posts, I can no longer spell without spell check. :D

[pussnboots]

oh dear Virgil, TSK! TSK! if you claim to use spellcheck I would go back to your post about what you had for christmas dinner. I believe you had some typos there.

[Shea]

I have such a problem with grammar. I have to write letters and reports for work and I'm always looking up grammar rules. I wish they had adult grammar classes, I haven't found any as of yet.

Try http://dailygrammar.com/. You can get free emails with a new lesson in them.

Also an excellent book to take a look at - Painless Grammar.

[Koa]

Vaguely related, I have an interview for a proofreading job tomorrow. I'm vaguely nervous about grammar because even if I do notice bad spelling all the time, I am unsure about grammar myself... I would believe they have dictionaries and books there but I'll have to have a test at the interview... uuuhhhhh