'Ethan Frome' : Favorites

[Scheherazade]

Who is your favorite character in Ethan Frome and why? What is your favorite quote/passage?



Book Club Procedures (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=57103#post57103)

[Scheherazade]

I am not yet sure who my favorite character is in the book but I do know that Ethan is my least favorite character.

[cuppajoe_9]

Aww, what's wrong with Ethan?

I was a big fan of Mattie, but I don't take part in the Book Club, so I won't vote.

[Scheherazade]

Hiya,

The Book Club is open to everyone so please feel free to vote :)

I do not like Ethan because I think he... he wants to have his cake and eat it too! He is married to Zeena and his apparent unhappiness, he does not want to do anything about it and he hopes that Mattie will carry on living with them, making things easier on him (emotionally). He does not seem to care how this arrangement would affect those two women; Zeena should sit and watch her husband getting emotionally attached to someone else and Mattie should give up the chance to have a family of her own, being happy to have Ethan's attention whenever Zeena is not looking.

[Pensive]

Hiya,
I do not like Ethan because I think he... he wants to have his cake and eat it too! He is married to Zeena and his apparent unhappiness, he does not want to do anything about it and he hopes that Mattie will carry on living with them, making things easier on him (emotionally). He does not seem to care how this arrangement would affect those two women; Zeena should sit and watch her husband getting emotionally attached to someone else and Mattie should give up the chance to have a family of her own, being happy to have Ethan's attention whenever Zeena is not looking.

Exactly! Sometimes, it seems to me Ethan Frome never loved Mattie. If that was so, he would have thought better for her. He would have let her have a family of her own. He would have made it clear to her that he couldn't live a life throwing mud in the eyes of his wife by meeting Mattie stealthily.

I can't pick a favourite character from this book. Characters are either very simple, or complex like that of Zeena. And you are not sure whether you like any of them.

[SleepyWitch]

Hiya,

The Book Club is open to everyone so please feel free to vote :)

I do not like Ethan because I think he... he wants to have his cake and eat it too! He is married to Zeena and his apparent unhappiness, he does not want to do anything about it and he hopes that Mattie will carry on living with them, making things easier on him (emotionally). He does not seem to care how this arrangement would affect those two women; Zeena should sit and watch her husband getting emotionally attached to someone else and Mattie should give up the chance to have a family of her own, being happy to have Ethan's attention whenever Zeena is not looking.

i don't think Zeena would suffer emotionally, seeing as she doesn't love Ethan anyway. Maybe her pride would be injured or she would be furious because Ethan doesn't fuss about her as much as she expects him to.
sorry, but i can't get myself to see her as the 'poor ill woman who's being treated badly by her mean philandering husband.'
RL people with 'issues' are a different matter.. don't get me wrong.. I'm not trying to say people in real life with mental health problems/hypochondria etc are a bother and shouldn't be taken seriously.
but Zeena just makes my flesh crawl and there's no way I could ever pitty her.

[Scheherazade]

I cannot say I like Zeena either; however, as long as they are married and living under the same roof as husband and wife, I think she has every right to expect her husband to be faithful to her.

[Virgil]

i don't think Zeena would suffer emotionally, seeing as she doesn't love Ethan anyway. .

If Ethan left her, Zeena would be destitute. Forget suffer emotionally, she would not know where her next meal would come from.

[papayahed]

I don't think we know if Zeena loves Ethan or not.


I took my book back to the library so I can't remember, who's the lady that was friends with Mattie and would go visit the Frome household? I'm thinking she might be my favorite just because she's willing to gossip with the narrator.

[Virgil]

Hey papaya, I'm thinking of voting for the narrator because he's an engineer. ;) :D :p

[papayahed]

Hey papaya, I'm thinking of voting for the narrator because he's an engineer. ;) :D :p


HaHa he's my second choice...

[SleepyWitch]

If Ethan left her, Zeena would be destitute. Forget suffer emotionally, she would not know where her next meal would come from.
from her meddling relatives :D



I cannot say I like Zeena either; however, as long as they are married and living under the same roof as husband and wife, I think she has every right to expect her husband to be faithful to her.
aaah, i see. you're talking about justice not sympathy... i see your point now..
yep, of course you're right that it wouldn't be fair or morally justifiable for Ethan to leave her.
her 'illness' kinda distracted me from this question because I thought maybe if she wasn't 'ill' Ethan would be able to leaver her. In my opinion she is definitely not ill. If she were, she wouldn't jump right up from her sickbed and run the household after Ethan's and Mattie's accident.
Seeing as she's not sick and an annoying, creepy, stupid cow anyway ---> Ethan is entitled to leave her.

but of course he isn't if you take more objective standards (justice etc) into account

[bouquin]

from her meddling relatives :D



aaah, i see. you're talking about justice not sympathy... i see your point now..
yep, of course you're right that it wouldn't be fair or morally justifiable for Ethan to leave her.
her 'illness' kinda distracted me from this question because I thought maybe if she wasn't 'ill' Ethan would be able to leaver her. In my opinion she is definitely not ill. If she were, she wouldn't jump right up from her sickbed and run the household after Ethan's and Mattie's accident.
Seeing as she's not sick and an annoying, creepy, stupid cow anyway ---> Ethan is entitled to leave her.



Do you mean to say that if Zeena had been pretty and vibrant and healthy Ethan would not have been "entitled" to leave her?

[SleepyWitch]

hehe I don't mean to say anything :)
i just outlined the immature judgemetn i made before thinking about Scher's argument...

well, if she was pretty, vibrant and healthy, I'm sure Mattie would have been less attractive to Ethan, seeing as his attraction is based on exactly these things rather than on "intrinsic values" or some such

[Scheherazade]

I don't think we know if Zeena loves Ethan or not. I agree.
yep, of course you're right that it wouldn't be fair or morally justifiable for Ethan to leave her.
Actually, that is not what I was trying to say... :)

I am not against Ethan leaving her on moral grounds. On contrary, I kind of wish he had the guts to do so but unfortunately he doesn't. What I am against is the cheating... He should not be scheming and going behind his wife's back to spend time with Mattie or to keep her with them while he has feelings for her (Mattie). By doing so he is betraying both his wife and Mattie. However, if he does not mean to pursue his heart, then he should not try to indulge himself by arranging things to suit his own needs either, in my opinion.

[Virgil]

I don't think we know if Zeena loves Ethan or not.



I agree.

Actually i don't think it matters. Ethos of old world farming people did not require husband and wife to be in love. That is part of what creates the constraints around Ethan. He didn't marry her because he was in love with her or she with him. It was a match for a fit, he needed a wife for the farm and she a husband to take care of her. He is caught between old world farming values (in Europe they might be considered serfs or peasants) and modern romantic notions.

Interestingly they don't have children. I was thinking about that this morning. I don't think the thought was ever mentioned.

[Schokokeks]

Interestingly they don't have children. I was thinking about that this morning. I don't think the thought was ever mentioned.
Interesting thought ! Maybe Zeena didn't give her consent, seeing the bad state of her health... Possibly also economic reasons.

[papayahed]

Interesting thought ! Maybe Zeena didn't give her consent, seeing the bad state of her health... Possibly also economic reasons.


Farm family usually have lots of children - all that free labor to hepl with the farm.



Actually i don't think it matters. Ethos of old world farming people did not require husband and wife to be in love. That is part of what creates the constraints around Ethan. He didn't marry her because he was in love with her or she with him. It was a match for a fit, he needed a wife for the farm and she a husband to take care of her. He is caught between old world farming values (in Europe they might be considered serfs or peasants) and modern romantic notions.


I don't think it matters either, but from the text we can't tell whether, at any point, Ethan loved Zeena. Who knows, it seems like Zeena was probably just as lively as Mattie when she came to the house to take care of the mother.


I am not against Ethan leaving her on moral grounds. On contrary, I kind of wish he had the guts to do so but unfortunately he doesn't. What I am against is the cheating... He should not be scheming and going behind his wife's back to spend time with Mattie or to keep her with them while he has feelings for her (Mattie). By doing so he is betraying both his wife and Mattie. However, if he does not mean to pursue his heart, then he should not try to indulge himself by arranging things to suit his own needs either, in my opinion.

I completely agree.

[Schokokeks]

Farm family usually have lots of children - all that free labor to hepl with the farm.
Yes, once you have the means to stop them from starving until they are old enough to do lumbering.

[Madhuri]

There is no favourite character of mine in this story.

Ethan -- I find him a really weak person. He seemed like an opportunist to me. And, I suspect if it was not Mattie and somebody else, he would have gone after her too. He was just looking for a respite from his rather uneventful life with Zeena.


I am not against Ethan leaving her on moral grounds. On contrary, I kind of wish he had the guts to do so but unfortunately he doesn't. What I am against is the cheating... He should not be scheming and going behind his wife's back to spend time with Mattie or to keep her with them while he has feelings for her (Mattie). By doing so he is betraying both his wife and Mattie.

I will also agree with this....

Zeena -- She did not seem to be in love with Ethan, as Papaya said. Such characters, I believe are not capable of love. She was rather a control freak, she felt secure when she was incharge of things. She also thinks that because she is 'showing' (I dont know if she means it) her dedication, she wants people to return her favour, by Ethan and Mattie always doing what she wants them to do. I also agree with Scher, no matter what her personality conveys, she was married to Ethan and she has all the right to try to save her marriage.

Mattie -- She was more like a sympathy gainer. She could have married Denis, and had a life of her own. Why did she say 'Where would she go?' Why did she want to be the reason to break someone's home? Was she really happy in the end? As I can make out in the end she too had turned cranky.

[Scheherazade]

Was she really happy in the end? As I can make out in the end she too had turned cranky.Yes, at the end, Mattie has become grumpy, selfish and hard to please; somewhat like Zeena's prior self... which makes me wonder whether this was one of Wharton's intended messages... that we are shaped by our circumstances and none of us is eternally sweet, kind and caring?

Which also brings me to a question which I have been turning in my head for since finishing the book: All the women who have been involved with Ethan (as far as we know) end up sulky, grumpy and cheerless. First his mother (there is a reference that she used to chat a lot but slowly she loses it - though it is suggested that it happened after the new road route); then Zeena, who was fine until she married Ethan and finally Mattie. And Ethan seems to be moving onto a new women when his present company fails him. Is it possible that Ethan's antisocial, taciturn behaviour is draining these women?

[Virgil]

Which also brings me to a question which I have been turning in my head for since finishing the book: All the women who have been involved with Ethan (as far as we know) end up sulky, grumpy and cheerless. First his mother (there is a reference that she used to chat a lot but slowly she loses it - though it is suggested that it happened after the new road route); then Zeena, who was fine until she married Ethan and finally Mattie. And Ethan seems to be moving onto a new women when his present company fails him. Is it possible that Ethan's antisocial, taciturn behaviour is draining these women?

Or just the life on the farm in general. But Mattie was because of the accident.

Or another way to phrase it, why would these grumpy women be attracted to Ethan? :p :p

[Hyacinth42]

Zenobia is my favorite.

Ethan was attracted to her, and marries her. Then when she gets older, he decides that he'd rather be with some brainless tart rather than his wife. I absolutely hate Ethan Frome, and I hate the fact that he already suffers the worst possible fate so that I can't wish death on him.

I don't know if I believe that Zenobia truley loved Ethan or not... It has to take alot to take care of him and Mattie, knowing that he tried to cheat on her with Mattie. I do feel pity for her, and I admire her strength, and therefore, she is my favorite character.

[Scheherazade]

Or just the life on the farm in general. But Mattie was because of the accident.Farm life doesn't seem to have had similar effects on other women we come across in the story.

[SleepyWitch]

Zenobia is my favorite.

Ethan was attracted to her, and marries her. Then when she gets older, he decides that he'd rather be with some brainless tart rather than his wife.

do you really see Mattie as a brainless tart?
well, we don't learn a lot about whether she's intelligent or not, but she's certainly no less intelligent than Zeena. Just because she's naturally cheerful doesn't mean she's stupid, does it?
why do you call Mattie a tart? I mean, she behaved very modestly and didn't show she liked Ethan for months... Then when Zeena is away, it's Mattie who prevents things from getting out of hand... I mean she could have flung herself at him right from the start if she was a "tart"

i don't think he was "attracted" to Zeenobia in a strict sense either, he just didn't want to be on his own again and was scared, so he asked her to stay.


Which also brings me to a question which I have been turning in my head for since finishing the book: All the women who have been involved with Ethan (as far as we know) end up sulky, grumpy and cheerless. First his mother (there is a reference that she used to chat a lot but slowly she loses it - though it is suggested that it happened after the new road route); then Zeena, who was fine until she married Ethan and finally Mattie. And Ethan seems to be moving onto a new women when his present company fails him. Is it possible that Ethan's antisocial, taciturn behaviour is draining these women?

I'm wondering about her message, too...
In the Norton Critical edition it says Ethan, Mattie and Zeena are based on Wharton, her husband Teddy (who had similar issues as Zeena) and Wharton's lover, only with the sexes reversed. (Yes, my dear puritan friends, she had a lover, eeeeeevil eeeevil woman that she was :) )

doesn't this mean Wharton would kind of see herself as Ethan and sympathise with him to a certain degree?

[Virgil]

I'm wondering about her message, too...
In the Norton Critical edition it says Ethan, Mattie and Zeena are based on Wharton, her husband Teddy (who had similar issues as Zeena) and Wharton's lover, only with the sexes reversed. (Yes, my dear puritan friends, she had a lover, eeeeeevil eeeevil woman that she was :) )

doesn't this mean Wharton would kind of see herself as Ethan and sympathise with him to a certain degree?

That message fits into my feminist theme I brought up before. I said it was an inverse of the typical feminist motif. But instead of a femnist message Wharton has universalized it to include show male and female constraints that life presents.

[SleepyWitch]

That message fits into my feminist theme I brought up before. I said it was an inverse of the typical feminist motif. But instead of a femnist message Wharton has universalized it to include show male and female constraints that life presents.

yep i thought so too :) but i was too lazy to post it before :)

[Virgil]

Hardly anyone voted here. I just did. I picked the narrator.