winston's fate is inevitable from the start??

[nikkie87]

Do you agree with this statement, he knows he will be caught and will be killed so therefore his fate is inevitable??

[Parmenides]

I think that I agree with the concept that he knew he would get caught, and that he even is rather expecting it at all times, but that there are moments when he believes that it won't happen for a while yet.

[The Atheist]

Like all romantics, Winston allows himself to believe that he has a chance, but I do think that deep, deep down, he realises that he cannot but be caught.

[Emil_Huseynov]

ok how do you imagine another course of events? Smith establishes a resistance movement and overthrows big brother?

[Granny5]

It was nevitable that Winston would be caught and Winston knew he would be caught.

[missfife]

I definately agree with that statement, he repeats over and over again that he's going to be caught. I believe that there are few moments that he dreams of a idealistic life, and those moments are typically with Julia but I don't think he ever believes that he will live his life out until he dies of old age. His fate is inevitiable.

[Thinkerr]

I disagree. He has lots of warning that he could be caught, so if he thought logically he could have gotten out in time. Ex. He hears O'Brien voice talking to him in his sleep. That should have raised major warning flags and told him to get out of there. Or he could have simply turned from his rebellious thoughts and gone back to the Party. then he wouldn't have been arrested or totured, thus avoiding his "fate". :)

[delta-fan]

How do we even know what Winston's fate is? What if it was his fate to do the things that we consider bad for him (eg buying the diary/paperweight, his relationship with Julia). If these actions are already part of his fate, then he isnt altering it, he is just living it

[The Atheist]

How do we even know what Winston's fate is? What if it was his fate to do the things that we consider bad for him (eg buying the diary/paperweight, his relationship with Julia). If these actions are already part of his fate, then he isnt altering it, he is just living it

Orwell wasn't a believer in fate and Winston's actions are consistent with human behaviour, so I don't think there's any reason to call it fate.

[delta-fan]

fate is defined as 'a course of events that will definitley happen in the future'. Winston knows that by rebelling against the Party (no matter how small the rebellion is), that he will die because of it. The 'course of events that will definitley happen in the future' is Winston dying and he decided at the beginning to cause this. Winston's fate is to die and he made this happen.

[The Atheist]

fate is defined as 'a course of events that will definitley happen in the future'. Winston knows that by rebelling against the Party (no matter how small the rebellion is), that he will die because of it. The 'course of events that will definitley happen in the future' is Winston dying and he decided at the beginning to cause this. Winston's fate is to die and he made this happen.

I agree that Winston's fate is to be caught, and he recognises this himself; it's the other occurrences which aren't fated.

[delta-fan]

I agree that Winston's fate is to be caught, and he recognises this himself; it's the other occurrences which aren't fated.

What do you mean by that?
Which occurences are you talking about?

[mollie]

Winston is going to get caught - the Party is omni-present, omniscient, there is no possible escape, and Winston knows this.

[delta-fan]

Winston is going to get caught - the Party is omni-present, omniscient, there is no possible escape, and Winston knows this.

So, from the very day he was born, some 39 (or so) years ago, he was doomed to die in the way that he did?
No, I believe that Winston plays a part in controlling his fate. His fate is to die at the hands of the Party, a situation that he gets himself into. If he hadn't have acted out against the Party, then would he still get a bullet to the head? No!

[The Atheist]

So, from the very day he was born, some 39 (or so) years ago, he was doomed to die in the way that he did?
No, I believe that Winston plays a part in controlling his fate. His fate is to die at the hands of the Party, a situation that he gets himself into. If he hadn't have acted out against the Party, then would he still get a bullet to the head? No!

Yes he would. He wouldn't have been able to stop thinking the thoughts, regardless of whether he acted upon them. He was always going to be guilty of thoughtcrime.