The theme in 1984

[yeemeow]

hello everyone :) wut do u guys think of the theme of the book?! is it more of "language and its relation to power" or "Dystopia and Totalitarianism society"?? plz help me out :yawnb:

[billyjack]

hello everyone :) wut do u guys think of the theme of the book?! is it more of "language and its relation to power" or "Dystopia and Totalitarianism society"?? plz help me out :yawnb:

i think "language and relation to power" sounds more specific. it'd probably be easier to write about.

we think in language, so if language is controlled, so are thoughts. the less language there is, the less thoughts people can have. At least this is the assumption of NEWSPEAK

[The Atheist]

Another way of looking at it is that dystopia and totalitarianism had been done in Animal Farm and 1984 isn't just a repetition of the same theme.

It's Newspeak which separates the two, plus the theme of language is constant and gets emphasised by the appendix.

You could tie it in to current thinking on thought, which pretty much follows the theme: children don't have memories which pre-date language and some academics are convinced Orwell was right, that abstract thought is impossible without being able to express it in language.

[billyjack]

children don't have memories which pre-date language and some academics are convinced Orwell was right, that abstract thought is impossible without being able to express it in language.

that's interesting. if the past exist only in memories, and memory is a product of abstracted thought, and there are instances--like with a pre-talking child--that abstracted thought doesnt exist, then it could be argued that the past doesnt exist either (or at least it only exist in language, and language is not reality). i don't know if this syllogism works logically or not, i just threw it together.

[The Atheist]

Well, that's exactly how Orwell saw it.

The bible and Plato's records of Socrates are two classic examples of the past being based solely on the written word. Billions of people take those works as the truth. Doesn't make it true, though.

[billyjack]

documented history is the only thing keeping the systems of control controlling, maybe. . .

here's a thought--animal behavior often times suggest the existence of something like a "memory" . yet no language is used for animals to remember (at least no any language that subsribes to rules). if abstracted thought is only functional with the help of language, then animals arent using abstractions to remember the past, either. maybe animal memory is experiences being turned into instinct. so no memory cortex is needed for the "remembering" to take place, just instinct--which is unconsious--(no thought, right?). so no thought is needed for what appears to be animal memory. they simply do without "doing" to quote bruce lee.

.

[The Atheist]

That's as I see it - simple Pavlovian response, no abstract involved.

[optimisticnad]

I have few ideas, probably mentioned already

propaganda, media,

governments/elite (their all just as bad)

love/sex (when you're being tortured how loyal will you be?)

future/past

binary oppositions and effect

[kandaurov]

is it more of "language and its relation to power" or "Dystopia and Totalitarianism society"??


propaganda, media,

governments/elite (their all just as bad)

love/sex (when you're being tortured how loyal will you be?)

future/past

binary oppositions and effect

All are true, I think. I would sum it up in
'Language and Consciousness';
'Perception is Reality';
'Dystopia - modernist, post-war Pessimism';
and, basically, the fact that extreme political doctrines are incompatible with humanitarian values and human nature itself.