Overrated Russian authors [Archive] - Literature Network Forums

Robert Jordan

03-31-2007, 05:35 AM

My favorite writers happen to be from Russia(particularly 19th century). This is for all of you who love works from Russia. Let's discuss who we feel to be a little below our expectations.
For me-Nikolai Gogol. I just can't seem to warm up to him. I really tried but his works are boring and mishmashed. I feel bad saying that. Dostoyevsky, who too me has changed and shaped what stories can do to our feelings and thoughts more than any other author in my opinion loved Gogol. I just don't get it!
How about the rest of you?

willow9

03-31-2007, 07:04 AM

bazarov

03-31-2007, 07:25 AM

bazarov

03-31-2007, 08:25 AM

Fyodor fan, heh!:thumbs_up
Well, Gogol's work are very interesting to me, especially Dead Souls, that novel is really great.
Although it's Dostoevsky's quote; "We have all issued out of Gogol's Cloak'', it clearly says that it goes for all of them: Turgenev, Chekhov, Tolstoy etc. They are all; let's say similar, but there are differences between them, and those differences define who you like and who you maybe dislike. So, there is nothing wrong in your opinion. After Three Sisters, I don't know when will I again take Chekhov in my hands...

Logos

03-31-2007, 08:27 AM

Gogol....can't seem to warm up to him. boring and mishmashed.....
Are you reading him in Russian or English? Understanding some Russian and/or culture/politics etc might help too.

EAP

03-31-2007, 05:23 PM

Tolstoy. Tolstoy. Tolstoy.

Umm.

Dostoevsky.

manolia

03-31-2007, 05:30 PM

This is irrelevant to the thread's subject but i greatly enjoyed the works of Maxim Gorky (at least the ones i've read). And it is curious to me that i do not see him either praised or critisized. Just a thought..

Stieg

03-31-2007, 10:05 PM

Are you reading him in Russian or English? Understanding some Russian and/or culture/politics etc might help too.

Precisely. And I'd prefer to read Russian literature in Russian but I can't. I am actually abit intimidated by them that I might not fully grasp the messages mingled throughtout the text and treat these as simply literature like say Dickens. Well, I am entitled to that too but you know what I mean.

Idril

03-31-2007, 11:06 PM

Let's discuss who we feel to be a little below our expectations.
For me-Nikolai Gogol. I just can't seem to warm up to him. I really tried but his works are boring and mishmashed.

I sort of, kind of agree with you to a point...how's that for conviction. ;) :lol: Dead Souls frustrated me more than anything because it was unfinished and I know he burned the manuscript so there's no helping the fact but it still dimished my enjoyment of the book. And his short stories, for the most part are just so odd, they were hard for me to really embrace...except for Diary of a Madman which was both hilarious and sad and I loved, loved Taras Bulba, it remains, for me, one of the greatest short stories ever written and began a serious fascination with Cossacks. Mikhail Lermontov is another Russian great that left me mostly underwhelmed. I think I was expecting too much from A Hero Of Our Time because it had been referenced so much and touted as this great Russian classic but it really didn't do anything for me.

Robert Jordan

03-31-2007, 11:33 PM

Exactly one of the problems I had with Dead Souls. Unfinished and it meandered. I couldn't finish Taras Bulba, I thought it was boring. I know that's simplifying it quite a bit but that's how I felt. I mean, you know a book or story is unengaging when you can't even finish it! As for the comments about Russian compared to English, unfortunetly I don't speak Russian. I know that as a language it has very different connotations and meanings, but really that goes for any book translated into a different language. I know that Richard Pervear is a supposedly a really good translator. For Dostoevsky I only read translations by Constance Garnett because Hemingway said that she was the best. Hey, it may sound corny but it's Hemingway.

kiz_paws

03-31-2007, 11:44 PM

Well personally, I don't think that any of the Russian authors are overrated, so that was what drew me to this thread. Three mentioned here were Gogol, Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky and I have read some of each of these wonderful Greats.

I would never go as far as to say that Gogol is boring (particularly after having read Diary of a Madman, but there are other short stories out there, too, such as The Portrait - wow, what a story). Sadly the writers named here had such strict censorship that some of the essence of the true artistic value that was sweated into the creation of their art had to surely have been lost. And then -- translation -- you lose even more of the essence there! But, one would have to be mighty good at the literary craft to come up with the epics that we enjoy so much now, having survived all the censorship and the translations. (This is where I totally agree with Stieg -- to appreciate the true literary value, to read these novels in their native language would be perfect)

Now, I have NOT read Dead Souls which sounds odd for a Gogol admirerer ... but I am reluctant because what turns me off about getting into this book is the stories behind it. What I mean is that there are several versions of just what exactly happened in the compilation of that novel, and I don't like what I hear. Perhaps I should just read it and make a logical judgement. But anyhow, what bothered me is that is it not true that the church didn't MAKE Gogol burn the manuscripts, but he was convinced to do just that, as his work was 'evil' or some such nonsense... and the end result of the novel is that it is pieced together with scrappits of stuff and, well, that doesn't sound appealing to me. And yet, there are those who have tried to convince me that the book is a good read if one is a fan of Gogol... so I don't know what to make of it. Anyhow, I respect the opinions of those here, so please, if you have read Dead Souls, what do YOU think? Thanks! :)

MarcMcGrath

03-31-2007, 11:48 PM

Tolstoy. Tolstoy. Tolstoy.

Umm.

Dostoevsky.

blasphemy! hahah

stlukesguild

04-01-2007, 12:49 PM

willow9; The Cherry Orchard is most certainly a play by Checkov... one of his best known. You might check here at Wikipedia where the title in Russian is included:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cherry_Orchard

As for the overrated Russian writers... I can't say I know of any. I must admit that I haven't read a great deal of Russian literature but I have read works by most of the major authors: Turgenev, Tolstoy, Doestoevski, Checkov, Gogol, Akhmatova, Tsvetaeva, Mandelshtam, Nabokov, Pasternak, etc... Most of what I have read was quite enjoyable... and a good number was memorable to say the least. Rather than being "overrated" I would suggest that there are certain Russian writers (the poets Pasternak and Tsvetaeva to begin with) who are grossly underrated.

EAP

04-01-2007, 06:26 PM

Oh, I forgot Pasternak.

Quark

04-01-2007, 07:38 PM

Now, I have NOT read Dead Souls which sounds odd for a Gogol admirerer ... but I am reluctant because what turns me off about getting into this book is the stories behind it. What I mean is that there are several versions of just what exactly happened in the compilation of that novel, and I don't like what I hear. Perhaps I should just read it and make a logical judgement. But anyhow, what bothered me is that is it not true that the church didn't MAKE Gogol burn the manuscripts, but he was convinced to do just that, as his work was 'evil' or some such nonsense... and the end result of the novel is that it is pieced together with scrappits of stuff and, well, that doesn't sound appealing to me. And yet, there are those who have tried to convince me that the book is a good read if one is a fan of Gogol... so I don't know what to make of it. Anyhow, I respect the opinions of those here, so please, if you have read Dead Souls, what do YOU think? Thanks! :)

Definitely read Dead Souls if you liked Gogol's short stories. This is one of the greatest works of Russian realism. It's deeply perceptive and also pretty amusing at times. Like Thomas Mann's Confessions of Felix Krull or Herman Melville's The Confidence-Man, the story centers on a trickster who uses his wits to succeed. Gogol uses his swindler main character to show the stupidity, pretentiousness, and hypocrisy of the landowning class in Russia. Tchitchokov (good luck on the pronunciation), Gogol's hero, is actual likable in many of the scenes because he is exposing the idiocy of the landowners and is finding ways to exploit the bureaucratic Russian government. If you like Russian realism I would strongly suggest reading Dead Souls.

Gogol did destroy parts of Dead Souls, but only the second book. He struggled to find an ending to the novel that would be uplifting in some way. In the second part, Gogol wanted Tchitchokov to regret his schemes and experience some kind of moral regeneration. Failing to find a way to make this happen, Gogol destroyed parts of the original story. The first book, however, Gogol considered finely written, and it remains intact.

Quark

04-01-2007, 07:43 PM

Oh, and I want to say that Tolstoy's early works are overrated.

kiz_paws

04-01-2007, 11:23 PM

Definitely read Dead Souls if you liked Gogol's short stories. This is one of the greatest works of Russian realism. It's deeply perceptive and also pretty amusing at times. Like Thomas Mann's Confessions of Felix Krull or Herman Melville's The Confidence-Man, the story centers on a trickster who uses his wits to succeed. Gogol uses his swindler main character to show the stupidity, pretentiousness, and hypocrisy of the landowning class in Russia. Tchitchokov (good luck on the pronunciation), Gogol's hero, is actual likable in many of the scenes because he is exposing the idiocy of the landowners and is finding ways to exploit the bureaucratic Russian government. If you like Russian realism I would strongly suggest reading Dead Souls.

Gogol did destroy parts of Dead Souls, but only the second book. He struggled to find an ending to the novel that would be uplifting in some way. In the second part, Gogol wanted Tchitchokov to regret his schemes and experience some kind of moral regeneration. Failing to find a way to make this happen, Gogol destroyed parts of the original story. The first book, however, Gogol considered finely written, and it remains intact.

Well thank you so much, Quark, for that reply. I knew that eventually I would read the book, because it is sitting on a ledge with my other books. I purchased the book but have put off reading it for the reasons cited above. Your reply helps! :)

aeroport

04-02-2007, 02:39 AM

I know that Richard Pervear is a supposedly a really good translator. For Dostoevsky I only read translations by Constance Garnett because Hemingway said that she was the best. Hey, it may sound corny but it's Hemingway.

Some people seem to like her, though I don't know if I've ever heard someone who knows Russian claim they do. For any who are curious, there is an article in the 7 November, 2005 issue of the New Yorker ("The Translation Wars") in which David Remnick discusses this subject at great length - this is, in fact, where my interest in Russian literature originated. He says something about Garnett early on: "Garnett's flaws were not the figment of a native speaker's snobbery. She worked with such speed, with such an eye toward the finish line, that when she came actoss a word or a phrase that she couldn't make sense of she would skip it and move on. Life is short, "The Idiot" long." I love that last bit. :lol: There is another from Nabakov, from when he was doing a study of Gogol: "I have lost a week already tranlating passages I need in 'The Inspector General' as I can do nothing with Constance Garnett's dry [trash ;) ]."

He interviews Pevear and his wife Larissa Volokhonsky as well. I guess their translations ring a bit more true to the Russian speakers because before Pevear goes through with the forming of the English text, Volokhonsky actually goes through the original text and writes lengthy, exhaustive translated passages full of marginal notes and such, and then goes back through the English version when he is finished. It seemed like a pretty cool system to me. Cool enough to get them on Oprah. :D

I have nothing to which I may compare it, but I did read their Crime and Punishment, and found it eminently lovable.

Yelena

04-02-2007, 10:32 PM

Personally I love Marina Tsvetaeva's poetry....Russian literature is definately my favorite, and I'm lucky because I can read it in the original.

bazarov

04-03-2007, 03:53 AM

Is Akunin good? Anybody read something?

bazarov

04-03-2007, 03:54 AM

Oh, and I want to say that Tolstoy's early works are overrated.
I agree... But War and Peace and Anna Karenina:) :) :)

Moira

04-03-2007, 04:45 AM

I couldn't finish Gogol's Dead souls either, and i haven't read anything else by this author because of that book which i did not like.

I love Dostoevsky though, he is my favourite Russian writer.

Ca anyone recommend some contemporary russian authors?
Thanks.

bazarov

04-03-2007, 12:51 PM

stlukesguild

04-03-2007, 09:27 PM

Personally I love Marina Tsvetaeva's poetry....Russian literature is definately my favorite, and I'm lucky because I can read it in the original.

Yes... I was immediately enthralled with her poetry when first coming upon it. Unfortunately I lack your avantage of reading it in the original and must rely on the limitted translations. I like Pasternak even more. His poetry reminds me in some ways of Rilke. I only wish that like Rilke he had be serviced with a good many more translators. I only have a slim "Collected Poems" and the marvelous volume "My Sister; Life".

ennison

04-04-2007, 05:21 AM

The Soviet era pushed many good writers to the fringes and promoted others who were merely conformists but there were quite a few good conformists.
I think our problem is not that there are many overrated Russian writers but that we have a limited view. We tend to know the 19th century greats and some well known dissidents but there are many more. If I could read Russian in the original I'd feel very privileged. Knowing a language in the original is really important for an appreciation of poetry.As an aside, for a real laugh I suggest you try Voinovich.

Koa

04-07-2007, 09:23 AM

willow9; The Cherry Orchard is most certainly a play by Checkov... one of his best known. You might check here at Wikipedia where the title in Russian is included:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cherry_Orchard

It is the most famous of his plays, at least to me. Vishnevyi Sad is the Russian title, problem is you can spell it in many ways according to the transliteration you choose (Vishnyovyi, Vishnevij, ...) ... Вишнёвый сад in Russian, if you can see the cyrillic here. You probably can find it rather easily to buy... although maybe not with Russian text?

Overrated? Well I never managed to appreciate Cechov really... :sick: And Solzhenitsyn. He takes himself too seriously. Ivan Denisovich is a great work and we all know its value and the value of Solzhenitsyn's work and deeds but damn that aura of santity doesn't suit him.

I admit with shame that I have never read Dead Souls, despite having a degree in Russian Literature LOL...

Yeah Tolstoy, overrated yeah.

Dostoevsky never overrated, Dostoevsky good.

Is Akunin good? Anybody read something?

Boris Akunin? I tried but I had it in Russian and it was a bit difficult for me and I didn't have much time or strength at the time so I gave up after a couple of pages... I need to try it again before I forget all my Russian.

Koa

04-07-2007, 09:30 AM

Hi. Sorry to jump in like this but I have a problem . My friend Arthur is a great fan of Anton Chekhov. He is looking for a plat called ''Cherry Orchid'' and he would like it to be printed in Russian. I have checked on the internet but the only reference for cherry orchid is in '' The Steepe'' which I beleive is a short story. I have told him that I only found reference to three plays by Chekhov but he is adament the the Cherry Orchid is a play and not a short story.

I know this is irregular but I will print my e mail address for anyone who could help me. Many thanks and again my appologies for intruding on your forum.

Irene.

[email protected]

I knew there was such site. All the Russian literature you want, in original... it just took me a little research to find it.
http://www.ilibrary.ru/text/472/index.html
Here, the Cherry Orchid in its full splendour. On the right you find those little arrows with a number of k, click there and there's the text.
Or http://www.ilibrary.ru/text/472/p.1/index.html here's the first act, put 2, 3 etc instead of 1 in the link and there you have them.

LOL that's what being a Russian student is for... knowing that in the ru.net you can find anything you want and even more.

bazarov

04-07-2007, 01:46 PM

I knew there was such site. All the Russian literature you want, in original... it just took me a little research to find it.
http://www.ilibrary.ru/text/472/index.html
Here, the Cherry Orchid in its full splendour. On the right you find those little arrows with a number of k, click there and there's the text.
Or http://www.ilibrary.ru/text/472/p.1/index.html here's the first act, put 2, 3 etc instead of 1 in the link and there you have them.

LOL that's what being a Russian student is for... knowing that in the ru.net you can find anything you want and even more.
That's already solved; I took care of it:D

Koa

04-07-2007, 05:45 PM

Oops :D

edit: uh? the 10 character rule is gone? :banana:

Stassia

04-12-2007, 03:23 PM

Gorky's Dead Souls is quite easily the dullest book I've ever read! Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy are loved by pretty much all, I think. Alexander Pushkin and Yuri Lermontov are my favourites, too, both their poetry and prose are truly beautiful. My mothertongue is Russian though, so I guess I have the benefit of being able to read the works in the original and appreciate them more. No matter how good the translation is, the spirit of the book is somewhat lost, I find.

ennison

04-14-2007, 10:01 AM

Lermontov was of Scottish ancestry though Russian. AH HAH WE CAN CLAIM ANOTHER ONE!!

chaplin

04-30-2007, 09:04 PM

For me-Nikolai Gogol. I just can't seem to warm up to him. I really tried but his works are boring and mishmashed. I feel bad saying that. Dostoyevsky, who too me has changed and shaped what stories can do to our feelings and thoughts more than any other author in my opinion loved Gogol. I just don't get it!

Gogol is not the greatest writer Russia has produced, but his genius has probably had more influence on its literature than any other writer, with Pushkin rivaling but not surpassing, because, in my opinion, his greatest works were poetry which his literary descendants pretty much neglected. Pretty much every major 19th century Russian writer expressed his influence on their work

Dostoevsky's quote; "We have all issued out of Gogol's Cloak''

This is a great quote on the influence of Gogol on his literary progeny. Just like Pushkin and Lermontov, he died earlier than was fortunate, and thus his catalog of works is incomplete, and one can feel that if he was given more time the scope of his writings would have "come together" and formed one of the most unique contributions to world literature.

Boris239

05-01-2007, 10:57 PM

Baz, I've read almost all of Akunin's novels. If you are looking for an enjoyable detective, go for it. Those, who are claiming, that the language rivals Chekhov's, are simply stupid. Btw, Akunin (his real name is Chihartishvili) is a specialist in Japanese literature, so if you read his novels, you can learn not only about 19th century Russia, but a bit about Japan too.

"Cherry Orchard" is Chekhov's most famous play, although I think "The seagull" is staged more often.

I am not the biggest fan of Gogol, but "Dead Souls" are quite good.

Idril, in order to fully appreciate Lermontov, you should read his poems. I like his poetry better than Pushkin's, although people usually say that it is common for young people, and you start appreciate Pushkin more and more as you grow up.

For me the most overrated writer is Solzhenitsin. I've already argued about this with Chaplin, so I won't repeat my arguments. Another one is Gorky- I like his early short stories, but I absolutely hated "Mother". It was pure torture. Only Chernyshevsky's "What to do" is worth for me.

Elena, I also like Tsvetaeva. Have you seen "Cruel romance"(Zhestokiy romans), where almost all of the songs are based on her poems?

Geoffrey

05-01-2007, 11:41 PM

I almost feel like Dostoevsky and Gogol are almost way to different to compare. Take into consideration I have only read house of the dead + some short stories by the former, and a collection of short stories by the later. It seems like their respected styles work well each in there own way.
Basically, if I want to lay down and read an entire story start to end before I go to bed, I'll pick up Gogol.
But If I'm interested in a long term commitment I'd really prefer Dostoevsky. His detail can get really great.
So maybe I'm saying that in my own opinion, Gogol is better with short stories, and Dostoevsky better with the epic novel. but my opinion doesn't count. I think everyones great.

Oh, I also don't read russian, so only read them in english. I like how russian translates though, from what I've expierienced.

Idril

05-02-2007, 02:39 PM

Idril, in order to fully appreciate Lermontov, you should read his poems. I like his poetry better than Pushkin's, although people usually say that it is common for young people, and you start appreciate Pushkin more and more as you grow up.

That's the problem, I don't really do well with poetry. :p I did actually enjoy Eugene Onegin once you encouraged me to read it but I'm still very slow to pick up a book of poetry...even if the author is Russian. :D

And Boris, I kind of a agree with you about Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag is an important book and he relays some very important and devastating information but I found his tone incredibly off-putting. I guess he has reason to be bitter and smug but it doesn't make it any easier to get through the dry, endless pages of case histories just because I understand the reason for his mood. I enjoyed A Day In The Life... and while I certainly learned a great deal about the Gulag system from Solzhenitsyn, it was a definite chore to get through.

chaplin

05-03-2007, 09:32 PM

And Boris, I kind of a agree with you about Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag is an important book and he relays some very important and devastating information but I found his tone incredibly off-putting. I guess he has reason to be bitter and smug but it doesn't make it any easier to get through the dry, endless pages of case histories just because I understand the reason for his mood. I enjoyed A Day In The Life... and while I certainly learned a great deal about the Gulag system from Solzhenitsyn, it was a definite chore to get through.

Obviously Boris knows much more about the history of Gulag and the accounts of it besides Solzhenitsyn's, but in my opinion, I don't find the tone of The Gulag Archipelago "off-putting". I feel it fits the purpose of the book, which, as Solzhenitsyn says, is a one-man's take, one man's examination of the Gulag, and he never really treats it as a definitive history, which would of course require an impersonal, objective approach, which, Solzhenitsyn says, he could and would not do because of his experiences. For a history of Gulag, complete with reasearched statistics and full treatment of the Soviet rationalizations for its existence, one shouldn't look to The Gulag Archipelago.

Of course, if you don't like or agree at all with Solzhenitsyn, reading Gulag would not be an enjoyable experience. I personally don't really like or agree with Gorky, and reading a three-volume, 2000+ page work of his would be, to me, also quite a "chore" .