Orwell or Marx?

[bazarov]

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
We all know that famous quote from Orwell's animal farm, but I was really surprised when one of my friends quoted it:p He also said that is Marx's quote which would go All humans are equal, but some humans are more equal than others. He also said that Salinger changed humans to animals:p
Although I was sure it's Orwell's original, maybe it could be Marx, it would have sense. I've tried to google it or to look in Communist Manifesto, but I didn't find anything.
Orwell or Marx, the question is now???

[manolia]

I am not sure. But you can check this site
www.marxists.org/glossary/index.htm

you can choose Marx in the pull down menu and you can type the phrase you want.
(But that phrase looks like French Revolution to me)

[bazarov]

I am not sure. But you can check this site
www.marxists.org/glossary/index.htm

you can choose Marx in the pull down menu and you can type the phrase you want.
(But that phrase looks like French Revolution to me)

No use. Thanks anyway.

[Asa Adams]

Crazy Baz! Let it go, would ya? lol:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Nick Rubashov]

hmmm, it would be very interesting to know if Marx ever said that. It's never been mentioned in any of the discussions I've had on Animal Farm though, nor can I find anything about it on the internet. I would think if it was true, it would be easily findable. But for now, must look harder :flare:

[bazarov]

Crazy Baz! Let it go, would ya? lol:lol: :lol: :lol:
What!?!:lol:You are an Orwell fan; maybe you know?

[Asa Adams]

I actually don't know dear, Baz! Good luck!!!

[watkinsguy]

It certainly wouldn't suprise me if Marx said that! Maybe Orwell was a Commie at heart?

[JBI]

It certainly wouldn't suprise me if Marx said that! Maybe Orwell was a Commie at heart?

From what I have read of Orwell, he appears to me to be a very socialist thinker, though I doubt he digs the whole authoritarian approach to socialism (judging by his literature).

[ejarg7]

I don't know if Marx said those exact words, but that could refer to the basic idea of communism that all people are equal. After all, Old Major was modeled after Karl Marx, wasn't he?

[androcles]

Orwell was certainly a socialist. If his brand of socialism could be defined I should think he was a fellow-traveller of the Trotskyist camp. He was certainly a soldier of the POUM in the spanish civil war and they were a anarchist/trotskyist bunch. He certainly detested Stalin, and his later writings reflected that. 1984 is often seen as an attack on all utopianist revolutions, but it seems starkly apparent to me that it is a lament for a specific revolution- the russian revolution and the betrayal of Orwells beloved egaletarian ideals.

I can't think that Marx ever wrote anything like the quote suggested. Lenin however is reputed to have said something to the effect;-

"Freedom is so precious, that it needs to be rationed."

[Foxxwh]

Unfortunatly it's been a long time since I've picked up my Orwell. But the quote in question likely comes from the American Declaration of Independence. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." The second part, if I recall, (along with the change to animals) was entirely Orwells invention, commenting on Stalinism and their habit of changing slogans and ideals as suited those in power.

[thescholar]

Orwell said it. Old major says, "on this farm, all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal."

[Remarkable]

It might have been Marx;after all,Orwell was a marxist till the end,what he didn't aprecciate was the totalitarism.Anyway,I will try to ask around and see if I can be of any help.

[kiki1982]

I believe Marx said the original: 'All humans are equal.' As we know the communist system of the Soviet Union was based upon Marx' theories and principles. Unfortunately during the 'term' of Stalin there was a lot of money that was taken out of the system where it was supposed to be, and spent on palaces, personal enriching, personal use even of the head of state and his family and also on people high up in the communist system. Corruption. Of course this went against the principles that were installed originally.
So the book of Orwell starts with the animals all together kicking the humans out, but it ends with the pigs moving into the farm house and developing the same habits as the humans had. So the communists kicked out the tszar and his family because they cost money and were useless, but the regime ends up(in Orwell's time) with another 'dynasty' of people being useless and costing money. What is the difference?
In the beginning of the book, one animal carves 'All animals are equal' on the door of the stables, but by the end of the book it says still 'All animals are equal', but someone carved under it 'But some are more equal than the others', meaning the pigs.
Marx only said the first one 'All humans are equal', but Orwell made his Animal Farm a parody on the Soviet Union and gave a sneer to the fact that it became the same as it was before.