Hard to believe

[bazarov]

Translated from our national newspapers:
In March, HarperCollins will publish new, refreshed and shortened version of Tolstoy's masterpiece War and Peace.:flare: ''Twice shorter and twice interested!'':flare: That's how sounds description of new War and Peace, finally published in 1869, and which was from then driving crazy all readers with it's length and barely understandable point-line!:flare: :flare: :flare:
That' at least how in HarperCollins are saying...But, all those who wait an easy-novel, won't get what they want; they'll get about 1000 pages full of small letters. Interventions want touch only size of novel, destiny of main characters will also change, so will see Prince Andrey Bolkonski and Natasha Rostova happy and together in their life!!!:flare: :flare: :flare: :flare: :flare: :flare: :flare: :flare:
''New version is in the first place for those who are analyzing Leo Tolstoy. But we believe this will find it's readers in all society'' - Public Relations explained.:flare: :flare: :flare: :flare: :flare: :flare:
Reviewers are shocked with this announce.:thumbs_up


Oh my God, is it possible?!?!!?:flare: :flare: :flare: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

[olichka]

Translated from our national newspapers:
In March, HarperCollins will publish new, refreshed and shortened version of Tolstoy's masterpiece War and Peace.:flare: ''Twice shorter and twice interested!'':flare: That's how sounds description of new War and Peace, finally published in 1869, and which was from then driving crazy all readers with it's length and barely understandable point-line!:flare: :flare: :flare:
That' at least how in HarperCollins are saying...But, all those who wait an easy-novel, won't get what they want; they'll get about 1000 pages full of small letters. Interventions want touch only size of novel, destiny of main characters will also change, so will see Prince Andrey Bolkonski and Natasha Rostova happy and together in their life!!!:flare: :flare: :flare: :flare: :flare: :flare: :flare: :flare:
''New version is in the first place for those who are analyzing Leo Tolstoy. But we believe this will find it's readers in all society'' - Public Relations explained.:flare: :flare: :flare: :flare: :flare: :flare:
Reviewers are shocked with this announce.:thumbs_up


Oh my God, is it possible?!?!!?:flare: :flare: :flare: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:


I. First of all, what do you mean by " our national newspapers " ? Do you mean your country ?

II. Also, I still don't get it : 1 ) is the size of the novel going to be affected, or not ?



2 ) they're actually changing the fate of the characters ? Personally, I'm really curious and even delighted to see them getting Natasha and Prince Andrey together---I'd rather have her with Andrey, than the slob Pierre ; however :



3 ) if the new version is for those who are analyzing Tolstoy, then :



a) shortening it will remove a lot of the material that has Tolstoy's themes and world-views, thus preventing an accurate analysis;



b ) changing the characters' destinies will also interfere with the Tolstoy's message. However, if Andrey and Natasha are going to be actually happy, then I guess it won't. However, do you actually see Andrey happy with anything for long ? That would probably involve a great shift in character, perhaps from getting a wound in the head at Borodino ? I would think that Andrey would get really bored with the trivialities of family life pretty soon and would probably escape into his public duties.




III. So, I think that the shorter version is just for those too lazy to read the long novel, those wanting entertainment and also those wanting an original twist/ titillation to the work. It's annoying, off course, but then maybe it's also exciting for the fans of Natasha / Andrey scenario, myself included !!! ( Is Andrey going to become a Decembrist ? Will Natasha follow him into the exile in Siberia ? If so, then it's not as dumb as it looks ! Perhaps someone just wanted to change the events foreseen in the unfinished " The Decembrists ! ", using a new set of characters ??? ( As a matter of fact, a group of writers by a joint name of " Staroj " have already finished a sequel called " Pierre and Natasha " ).

IV. It's also interesting that the new novel version is coming out at the same time that the 2 new movie versions of the work : apparenly, one is a combined European co-production, the other one a joint Russian/American version.

V. I guess this is the season of the " War and Peace " revival !

[Idril]

I find the idea horrifying! How can they mess with a classic like that? So what if it's long and there's lots of characters, if it's too much for you to read, then don't read it. This idea of 'dumbing down' classics so the masses can appreciate them is ridiculous. And you don't mess with storylines, Natasha doesn't end up with Andrey, no matter how much people may wish they do, they don't and by changing that outcome, it's almost like saying they're better storytellers than Tolstoy which is, again, ridiculous.

[bazarov]

I find the idea horrifying! How can they mess with a classic like that? So what if it's long and there's lots of characters, if it's too much for you to read, then don't read it. This idea of 'dumbing down' classics so the masses can appreciate them is ridiculous. And you don't mess with storylines, Natasha doesn't end up with Andrey, no matter how much people may wish they do, they don't and by changing that outcome, it's almost like saying they're better storytellers than Tolstoy which is, again, ridiculous.
An old wise woman is always good to hear:lol:
I completely agree with you!

[bazarov]

First of all, what do you mean by " our national newspapers " ? Do you mean your country ?

Yes

II. Also, I still don't get it : 1 ) is the size of the novel going to be affected, or not ?

Yes.


2 ) they're actually changing the fate of the characters ? Personally, I'm really curious and even delighted to see them getting Natasha and Prince Andrey together---I'd rather have her with Andrey, than the slob Pierre ; however :
WHY???




a) shortening it will remove a lot of the material that has Tolstoy's themes and world-views, thus preventing an accurate analysis;
Yes



b ) changing the characters' destinies will also interfere with the Tolstoy's message. However, if Andrey and Natasha are going to be actually happy, then I guess it won't. However, do you actually see Andrey happy with anything for long ? That would probably involve a great shift in character, perhaps from getting a wound in the head at Borodino ? I would think that Andrey would get really bored with the trivialities of family life pretty soon and would probably escape into his public duties.
I can't see Andrey happy with Natasha; not after Anatol's adventure with her.




III. So, I think that the shorter version is just for those too lazy to read the long novel, those wanting entertainment and also those wanting an original twist/ titillation to the work. It's annoying, off course, but then maybe it's also exciting for the fans of Natasha / Andrey scenario, myself included !!! ( Is Andrey going to become a Decembrist ? Will Natasha follow him into the exile in Siberia ?
Sonya did with Raskolnikov; so it's already seen.


V. I guess this is the season of the " War and Peace " revival !
Maybe they will solve my alphabetical problems:bawling:

[manolia]

I haven't yet read "war and peace" but it is a favorite of my mothers' and i've heard so much about that book so i am going to read it soon. Anyway it is a sacrilege to change a piece of art (without the artist's permission at least and since the artist is dead no one is entitled to do so). A piece of art (a book ,a painting) doesn't belong to anyone in particular. It belongs to all mankind and noone has the right to destroy it. (As a book purist i could only accept a childrens edition. The same is done for many books in order to introduce classic literature to children. But i believe, from what you relate that this is not the case with "war and peace").

[Taliesin]

Well, but this doesn't affect you, does it? You can always read the old version and dismiss the new one.
You can always take it as an interpretation, can't you?
Of course, this could mean that people will "correct" your "mistakes" about the plot and that people could accidentally get the wrong book.
But well, worse things happen, don't they? Wars and famines and stuff.





Is Andrey going to become a Decembrist ? Will Natasha follow him into the exile in Siberia ?
Sonya did with Raskolnikov; so it's already seen.

Everything is seen before, it is not a valid reason to dismiss things.The decembrist issue is quite interesting, isn't it? There are many other ways to deal with the issue and besides, C&P was very brief about the descriptions of Siberia.

Of course, why should this problem be dealt with in this particular book is a question in its own.

[olichka]

Re: Bazarov's statement:

" I can't see Andrey happy with Natasha , not after Anatol's adventure with her ".

Actually, with regard to that point, Andrey has already forgiven both Natasha and Anatol (remember the operation station where Andrey sees Anatol's leg being amputated ? ).

During his illness, Andrey undergoes a spiritual regeneration, leading him to understand Natasha's suffering and shame following Anatol's treatment of her. They reach a touching reconciliation and a renewal of love, leading Andrey to love her in a more human and mature way. Andrey begins to see her as the only person able to provide him with that luminous, gentle peace that he so needs ( paraphrasing here ). Natasha thus is able to provide peace and comfort to Andrey.

Moreover, Natasha didn't exactly lose her virtue to Anatol, so Andrey will get her whole and intact and his male proprietary feelings should not be revolted.

It seems that at the beginning, at least, Andrey will be very happy with Natasha. It's whether it will last, that is the issue, knowing Andrey's predisposition to boredom and disillusionment.

On the other hand, if Natasha marries Andrey, then she will not become the slob that she became with Pierre. She would try to maintain her appearance, singing and charm, trying to satisfy Andrey's high standards. Can't you be a good mother and still take care of yourself ? After all, she'd be even richer with Andrey and would get plenty of help with the kids.

Also, I can see her as a very loving, caring, supportive wife to Andrey should they go into exile in Siberia. ( And as one poster said, just because exile into Siberia has been seen before, doesn't mean that it can't be discussed in a new light. ).


I hated to see Natasha's deterioration ( both physical and cultural ) in the Epilogue. Is that a way to live ???

Speaking of culture, having read about Decembrists's wives' cultural activities in Irkutsk, Siberia, I think that Natasha, with her singing and general musicality, could take a meaningful part in that circle, should it be described in the novel.

All this would be more possible if she were married to Andrey. I think she needs a much stronger partner in order to realize herself more fully !

[olichka]

You can always read the old version and dismiss the new one.
You can always take it as an interpretation, can't you?

Of course, why should this problem be dealt with in this particular book is a question in its own.


Very true. I agree with always having the option of dismissing the new version, should it turn out to be dumb and improbable.

I also agree with seeing the new version as being just an interpretation. After all, as readers we always wonder about what might have been, right ?

Furthermore, although Tolstoy is a genious, he's still only human and his opinions on the nature of the world and relationships are just his personal philosophies, they're not Gospel.

With regard to why Siberia, or exile into it should be the problem dealt with in this particular book---actually, before writing " W. and P ", Tolstoy wrote a novel called " The Decembrists " that dealt with Pierre and Natasha returning from Siberia after an amnesty. Clearly, this indicates that Decembrist activities and Siberia were the outcome that Tolstoy had foreseen for his characters.

Also, in the Epilogue Tolstoy does refer to Pierre's participation in " secret societies " ( he's actually absent on a trip to take part in some meetings) --- they're actually political societies that are looking into reforms for Russia.

[bazarov]

Andrey maybe did say and act like he is forgiving her, but I think he actually didn't and he never would. Would you??? I wouldn't! No matter of all regenerations, betray stays betray!

[olichka]

Andrey maybe did say and act like he is forgiving her, but I think he actually didn't and he never would. Would you??? I wouldn't! No matter of all regenerations, betray stays betray!


Actually, under the circumstances he could. After all, he did leave a young girl of 17 to wait for him for a whole year, while he was off around Europe taking "cures". He also insisted that she could break off the engagement, should she cease to love him, since he was the one responsible for delaying the marriage. I mean, couldn't they marry and then go to Europe, so he could take his cures ? Do you actually have to wait a whole year ?? I think Natasha just got bored and frustrated and badly needing love and romance. Also, being young and naive, she fell victim to the rogue Anatol. After all , it wasn't her who initiated the elopement !!!

If he didn't truly forgive her, he would not be able to say all those touching things to her, he was too honest a man. If he didn't mean to marry her, after all, he wouldn't say those things because that would be leading her on.

Second of all, I read on the Internet that the new version is based on Tolstoy's original version of the novel which had a final chapter called " All's well that ends well " --- there, both Petya and Andrey survive the war. However, Andrey and Natasha DON'T get together. Andrey, after undergoing spiritual regeneration, gives her up when he sees that his sister Marya loves Nikolay. So, for his sisters' happiness and to save Rostovs' floundering fortunes, he gives up his own happiness --- life with Natasha.

Now, how realistic is that ? If a person truly loves someone, could they give them up, even for their sister's happiness ?

But, also, Andrey understood that he could not make Natasha happy the way Pierre could, so it's actually at his suggestion that the two get together.

So where did you read that Natasha and Andrey are going to be together and happy ? Is that what the publishers said, or did you just assume that ?

[bazarov]

I really don't understand why Andrey have to be happy...If Tolstoy wanted him to be happy, he would make him happy, but he have chosen Pierre, so be it!

I have just translated text, haven't assumed nothing.

I think you're very young, although I don't know how old are you; but you'll see that life is not that nice as you are dreaming it to be.

[B-Mental]

Well, but this doesn't affect you, does it? You can always read the old version and dismiss the new one.
You can always take it as an interpretation, can't you?


Wow, I guess you would think the bible should be shortened, or maybe all books should be shortened. This is a crappy idea. It is a piece of art and should be left alone. I hope the title is Wa & Pic.

Please don't be offended by my comments Taliesin as I do respect your point, but stand opposed to this issue as a point of principle...this is a profit motive and I abhor it.

[olichka]

[QUOTE=bazarov;348338]I really don't understand why Andrey have to be happy...If Tolstoy wanted him to be happy, he would make him happy, but he have chosen Pierre, so be it!

I have just translated text, haven't assumed nothing.

I think you're very young, although I don't know how old are you; but you'll see that life is not that nice as you are dreaming it to be.[QUOTE]


Actually, I never said that Andrey can be happy, even when married to Natasha---I only said that it's possible that he could be happy at the beginning of their life together. I did say that it's doubtful whether his happiness could last.

Also, I was paraphrasing a text that I read where it said that Andrey gave up his own happiness---life with Natasha. I was not expressing my opinion there.

Actually, I'm not that young and have learned long ago that life is not as nice as in dreams, but I am still given to occasional romantic lapses. I realize that Andrey and Natasha are not good together, but still wish that they could be !

[Adventure Man]

Anyway it is a sacrilege to change a piece of art (without the artist's permission at least and since the artist is dead no one is entitled to do so). .

I agree 100%. I can't begin to tell you how upset I get when I find out that I've read an abridged version of a book (oh they hide it so well sometimes). Case in point "The Count of Monte Cristo", all for that insipid hollywood remake :flare:

[cmb]

When you read the earlier edition of War and Peace, you'll be glad Tolstoy changed it later. Andrei does not die, but Natasha though she nurses him, tells him, she no longer loves him. She and Pierre do get married. The characters are altered by this change. Andrei still loves Natasha but she rejects his suit. Then he tells Pierre so and Pierre being his best friend, figures that since Andrei says it's ok he can pursue her. WHAT??!!!! This earlier edition has a "happier" outcome but the characters are so much less satisfying. Having Natasha really love Andrei, etc., gives her character depth which she lacks in the earlier draft. Andrei seems kind of pathetic in his survival, and Pierre, who's learned so much being a POW, suddenly disregards friendship and becomes an opportunist. Bravo to Tolstoy for realizing that his final draft, though heartbreaking, is a much more satisfying story!

[cidkid]

"' I can't see Andrey happy with Natasha , not after Anatol's adventure with her '.

Actually, with regard to that point, Andrey has already forgiven both Natasha and Anatol (remember the operation station where Andrey sees Anatol's leg being amputated ? )."

Olichka, in the version I just finished reading, I don't know if it's the same, but it doesn't actually acknowledge that Andrei knew that it was Dholokov. Just that he was there, and what happened, but not at all that the prince recognised him, on the contrary it mentions a few times in the previous hundred pages or so from that scene that Andrei wanted to "meet" him, to see him. I don't think he ever knew he was watching his enemy after amputation.

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

A popular quip in Texas states “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”, but why should anyone be surprised in this?

The “dawning of the age of Aquarius” has evolved into the age of the instant gratification, flowery outcomes, reality TV society prevailing upon our lives.
Patience was known to be a virtue, but it has been sidelined for being too slow; an annoyance for a society that is longing to be abridged.

I suppose that if this hastened version becomes popular, we will no longer be able to use another popular phrase; “it’s not like you have to read War and Peace (Society?)” in response to someone’s whining about completing an assignment or a chore.

Gilliatt

[cidkid]

popular in Texas states eh?

[bazarov]

"' I can't see Andrey happy with Natasha , not after Anatol's adventure with her '.

Actually, with regard to that point, Andrey has already forgiven both Natasha and Anatol (remember the operation station where Andrey sees Anatol's leg being amputated ? )."



One thing is to forgive, and to be happy with that person again is something totally different. Something almost impossible.