Pontius Pilate - A mysterious legend

[Martian Poet]

Greetings friends!

I figured I would post this topic in the Religious forum, although I myself am a cheerfull agnostic, this seems to fit best in here.

Is anyone else fascinted by the mystery that is Pontius Pilate? Like many people in the Bible, there are archeological facts and historical artifacts that prove the great Governers existance, yet so precious few that almost his entire life, save what Christian mythology brings to the table, is shrouded in mystery.

I have read an excellent book by Ann Wroe called "Pontius Pilate: The Biography Of An Invented Man", and found is superior and all around quite excellent and enjoyable, even for an agnostic! It is essentially all made up of assumptions, hypothosis and fairy tale, yet it is quite enlightening at the same time and most importantly a blast to read. It is pretty much agreed upon by scholars, from the evidence we have, that he was a pretty ruthless, brutal man.

Does anyone else find this man fascinating in the sense the we as a modern people essentially know nothing of his life?

Cheers

Martian P

[Virgil]

Yes, I do. Very mysterious. And it's also interesting how various films that have dramatized him, from a political expedient to someone forced into the decision. If I come across that book you mention, I will pick it up. We will never truely know, but it's fun to speculate.

[Martian Poet]

Indeed it is fun to speculate. Even the authors of the four gospels speculate as to how Pilate handled the situation regarding Jesus! I find it amazing and it constantly keeps me thinking of the man. Mostly from a political standpoint, considering, once again, I'm an agnostic.

The book is wonderful, and let me know what you think of it if you ever get it. :thumbs_up

[Schokokeks]

If I remember correctly, there's an episode in Bulgakov's Master and Margarita starring Pontius Pilate...I recall his suffering from a severe pain in the head there. Maybe somebody can add more here, I would have to reread it...

[Zippy]

I've recently bought Ann Wroe's "Pontius Pilate: The Biography Of An Invented Man", but haven't got around to reading it yet.

I think Pilate is a fascinating character. To me he asked one of the most important questions in any religious text when he asked Jesus: "What is truth?"

[hyperborean]

I've always been interested in Pontius Pilate. This is primarily because he tried to save jesus from a crime he didn't feel deserved crucification. Some Christians believe that Pilate had "dreams" about the whole thing, but to me that's myth.

Jesus to me is a role model, and like God someone to "replace". I can still remain "hyperborean" in my beliefs and still idolize Jesus because of what he stood for. Some of you claim Jesus is all about love. That's all b.s. Jesus did not submit to society when they threatened to kill him. When he died he died for what he believed in, keeping his subjectivity. He did not die for people's sins, he died to set an example...to change mankind's morals...to make people reevaluate their values, to change humanity in order to better society and the world. He is my personal ubermensch.

"In truth, there was only one Christian, and he died on the cross."

Friedrich Nietzsche

[ennison]

' he died to set an example...to change mankind's morals...to make people reevaluate their values, to change humanity in order to better society'

Then I'd say he failed.

But as he died for another reason I don't say he failed.

[hyperborean]

Failure has nothing to do with it. It's the fact that he died trying to accomplish that.

I wouldn't consider "creating an organized religion and then conquering the world with it" his intentions. I wouldn't consider the dark ages...his intention.

[Jean-Baptiste]

Yes, Pilate is an interesting personage. I wonder if anyone has read the short story by Anatole France, The Procurator of Judea? I thought it was excellent, like most of France's writing. More of this speculative stuff about Pontius Pilate.

Nice avatar, Poet! Everytime I see it I'm stricken with a momentary panic that I've been contributing to threads without remembering. :lol:

[Virgil]

Nice avatar, Poet! Everytime I see it I'm stricken with a momentary panic that I've been contributing to threads without remembering. :lol:

:lol: Yeah, I thought that was you. Didn't you have it as an avatar once?

[Redzeppelin]

Jesus to me is a role model, and like God someone to "replace". I can still remain "hyperborean" in my beliefs and still idolize Jesus because of what he stood for. Some of you claim Jesus is all about love. That's all b.s. Jesus did not submit to society when they threatened to kill him. When he died he died for what he believed in, keeping his subjectivity. He did not die for people's sins, he died to set an example...to change mankind's morals...to make people reevaluate their values, to change humanity in order to better society and the world. He is my personal ubermensch.

"In truth, there was only one Christian, and he died on the cross."

Friedrich Nietzsche

What exactly did Jesus "stand for"? What exactly did he die for? What did he "believe in"? What "example" exactly was served by His death? How was society made "better" by His death? Could you clarify your position because it goes against Christian theology and what the Bible claims - so what's your authority for suggesting these things?

[ennison]

Morals are one of the weakest foundations for life.

[hyperborean]

Okay, let me rephrase (even though I shouldn't have to)...my judgment and opinion of the Christ figure was made from a secular point of view. A "hyperborean" point of view. It's called rejecting Christian theology and reevaluating what Christ actually stood for as if Christianity never existed...as if that black smog never consumed the world and brainwashed the many (just joking).

If you disagree because you follow the bible then fine. Now lets get back on topic because I have a feeling this is going to turn into the "evolution vs creationism" thread.

[Redzeppelin]

Still waiting for clarification...

[Zippy]

Another religious thread another argument…

You know, I sympathise with Pilate’s position more and more each day!

[Redzeppelin]

Pilate had the chance to make a moral statement but - like the politician that he was - he tried to please both sides of an equation that could not be reconciled. He knew what was right, but he chose compromise.

[Zippy]

Pilate had the chance to make a moral statement but - like the politician that he was - he tried to please both sides of an equation that could not be reconciled. He knew what was right, but he chose compromise.

Exactly. And that's why religion and politics don't and shouldn't mix. "Render unto Caesar" and all that.

[Redzeppelin]

Exactly. And that's why religion and politics don't and shouldn't mix. "Render unto Caesar" and all that.


I agree - politics and religion are strange bedfellows and I think that they conflict in many ways. But I still think Pilate's decision was mostly political. Religion really wasn't a consideration in his decision. He was in charge of a large constituency of the Jewish population, led by fairly powerful "religious" leaders, who had the power to make his rule very uncomfortable. He knew Jesus was innocent, but gave in to popular pressure. And for that compromise he is forever remembered.

[hyperborean]

I agree - politics and religion are strange bedfellows and I think that they conflict in many ways. But I still think Pilate's decision was mostly political. Religion really wasn't a consideration in his decision. He was in charge of a large constituency of the Jewish population, led by fairly powerful "religious" leaders, who had the power to make his rule very uncomfortable. He knew Jesus was innocent, but gave in to popular pressure. And for that compromise he is forever remembered.

Too bad they do mix. Not to get into politics...but since the ancient times both religion and politics were mixed in order to control the populace. {snip} Maybe one day there will be a true separation of church and state.

[Virgil]

Too bad they do mix. Not to get into politics...but since the ancient times both religion and politics were mixed in order to control the populace. {snip} Maybe one day there will be a true separation of church and state.

You know you keep getting political hyperborean. Politics is about identity, and identifying with beliefs. Why do black people overwhelmingly vote for black people? The people you vote for I'm sure you identify with. It works all ways. {snip}

As to fear, the losing side of all parties always claims the same. In fact you are spreading fear yourself, that religious people are taking over the government. {snip}

May I ask how old you are?

[hyperborean]

As to fear, the losing side of all parties always claims the same. In fact you are spreading fear yourself, that religious people are taking over the government. If your side had won, then Conservatives would have been claiming that fear won the election.

And you are a fortune teller? A psychic? {snip}

I love how you bring "age" into this. Well no, I'm not an old, conformed, tradition based conservative like you. Hope that clears things up.

[Logos]

What part of "Discussion of current politics is not allowed." don't you guys understand?:rolleyes:

[ennison]

Separation of church and state?? There aint no bishops running The USA Those who want the voter to be a rationalist robot are advocating schizophrenia. After all some folk say vote green and others say eat 'em.

[Redzeppelin]

I love how you bring "age" into this. Well no, I'm not an old, conformed, tradition based conservative like you. Hope that clears things up.

Well, Virgil, I think you struck a nerve.

[Scheherazade]

Since this thread is not serving its original purpose anymore, it will now be closed.