Don Corleone's Disciplines

[Thatch]

There is a phrase that I can't quite make out the meaning of. When Sonny decides to learn the family business the Don also teaches him his disciplines and there is one that I don't understand entirely.

He claimed that there was no greater natural advantage in life than having an enemy overestimate your faults, unless it was to have a friend underestimate your virtues.
Okay, if an enemy overestimates your faults you gain an advantage since your enemy becomes over cautious. Right? How is it an advantage when a friend underestimates your virtues? :confused:
Can someone elaborate to make it more clear?

[bazarov]

Where is that exactly in the book??? I've read that book couple of times, but I can't find it?

[Virgil]

There is a phrase that I can't quite make out the meaning of. When Sonny decides to learn the family business the Don also teaches him his disciplines and there is one that I don't understand entirely.

Okay, if an enemy overestimates your faults you gain an advantage since your enemy becomes over cautious. Right? How is it an advantage when a friend underestimates your virtues? :confused:
Can someone elaborate to make it more clear?

I would say, without having read the book, that the friend may not trust you or think that you could come through and go to somewhere else for whatever he wants or needs.

[ktd222]

I think he’s just talking about power(of the mind). A friend that underestimates your virtues can never outwit you, or be more right about you any any subject, since their measure of how smart or right you are is always an underestimate.

[Zippy]

If your enemy overestimates your faults then they'll think that you're going to mess-up what ever you do, so they let their guard down thinking you're sloppy. That gives you an advantage.

If a friend underestimates your virtue, say for instance they're in trouble and need a big favour, they'll probably think you'll not come through for them. When you do you'll go up in their estimation and you'll have a friend for life.

[Thatch]

Where is that exactly in the book??? I've read that book couple of times, but I can't find it?
Book III towards the end of Chapter XIV when Sonny first learns the family business. In my book it's at the bottom of page 291.

A lot of interesting thoughts, thank you fellas. I'll need to ponder them.

[bazarov]

I've found it...
Sun Tzu also once said that it's best to pretend that your weak so that your enemy cannot see your real and great strength and he will underestimate you and then you have an advantage. Almost the same thing said Puzo.
About friends, he probably thought that your friends, sometimes even though they have faith in your abilities or they need your help about something but their not sure can you fulfill their expectations, you do that, surprise them in some way and you'll friendship will be even bigger.

[B-Mental]

If your enemy overestimates your faults then they'll think that you're going to mess-up what ever you do, so they let their guard down thinking you're sloppy. That gives you an advantage.

If a friend underestimates your virtue, say for instance they're in trouble and need a big favour, they'll probably think you'll not come through for them. When you do you'll go up in their estimation and you'll have a friend for life.

I agree, this is an explanation, I would add that a friend may not think you will perform as "virtuously" and therefore turn to others.

[ktd222]

Is there such a thing as 'friend for life' in organized crime?

[Thatch]

I think he’s just talking about power(of the mind). A friend that underestimates your virtues can never outwit you, or be more right about you any any subject, since their measure of how smart or right you are is always an underestimate.
See, that was my problem. It doesn't make sense because we're talking about a friend. I can understand having an advantage over someone who can't outwit you, especially when that person makes a poor judgement, but why over a friend. If we are talking about a friend, in the true sense of the word, then gaining an advantage over that person in that sort of way would mean an enemy and so doesn't make much sense. The only way that makes sense for me is when a friend becomes the enemy. I think the others said it well when they explained how a friend who underestimates your virtues can lead to a stronger friendship. I think that's it.
Well, things are clearer now. Thanks. :thumbs_up

[ktd222]

If we are talking about a friend, in the true sense of the word, then gaining an advantage over that person in that sort of way would mean an enemy and so doesn't make much sense. The only way that makes sense for me is when a friend becomes the enemy. I think the others said it well when they explained how a friend who underestimates your virtues can lead to a stronger friendship. I think that's it.
Well, things are clearer now. Thanks. :thumbs_up

I mean is there such a thing as "friendship" in organized crime? Isn't it all about who has power? When it comes to organized crime even one's own personal friend or brother or father can be killed. So I do see the word friend in the sense of the word enemy.

[Thatch]

I mean is there such a thing as "friendship" in organized crime? Isn't it all about who has power? When it comes to organized crime even one's own personal friend or brother or father can be killed. So I do see the word friend in the sense of the word enemy.
I see your point. That's what adds to the confusion. But, in organized crime as we read in the Godfather it is really about family in the sense of everyone helping each other to survive and prosper. Now, when someone within the family betrays another, can such a person still be considered family? Be it whoever, if someone has no character and can sink so low, as sad as it may be, such a person should be out casted. And as we may remember towards the end of the book when Tom Hagen explains to Kay:

Hagen went on. "I'll give you some more straight talk. After the Don died, Mike was set up to be killed. Do you know who set him up? Tessio. So Tessio had to be killed. Carlo had to be killed. Because treachery can't be forgiven. Michael could have forgiven it, but people never forgive themselves and so they would always be dangerous.

[bazarov]

There is no friend in organized crime, remember that Sicilian lawyer who take guilt for Sollozo's and McCluskey's death, his family was only who helped him.
The thing is; Sicilians don't look at the mafia like it's some business; it's something from which all their family's live, and so they are prepared to do everything to protect it, ''If this bookie won't pay me this month, maybe my kids will starve...'' etc.
Do you have any friend that betrayed you once and you still are friends?? If you have, you shouldn't! How can you trust to someone who tried to kill you, and he is also your family, which is the most important to Sicilians, and I don't think just on Mike's close family( Kay, Connie, Carlo, Freddie, Tom), but on the whole Corleone organization. They killed Paulie Gatto, they would also kill Luca Brasi or Clemenza or Tessio( and they did at the end), they killed Carlo Rizzi, in part 2 they will kill Freddie...The point is, now matter of your rank in family, you will be punished for any form of betray. If Michael didn't killed them, he would endanger whole organization and all her members, and that just could not happen.