Where beliefs come from?

[Madhuri]

Where do you think your belief in something lie in? reasoning, logic, experience, knowledge, gut feeling / intution, or anything else.

For example: If you believe lying is not good. Why do you think so? What makes you say that it is not good? and Why?

Is it because: you have reasoned it? because you have experienced that lying leads to good or bad consequences? or somebody has said so? or anyother reason.

[kilted exile]

I would suggest there is no one source. All of my beliefs have been formed by a combination of each of the things you have listed.

[vili]

I agree with kilted exile -- it's most probably a combination of things rather that any single one.

However, I would put quite some emphasis on something that wasn't on your list -- convention (or one could even use the word "conditioning"). We tend to believe in things that we have been told to believe, or that we have believed earlier. Old habits die hard. In fact, I think that something like reasoning, logic, knowledge and even experience really kick in only when we are going against our basic beliefs.

In fact, most of our reasoning and logic in this sense also seems to be nothing but a way to "prove" to ourselves that our beliefs, acquired in ways that don't have much to do with logic or reasoning, are right. We are very good at proving ourselves right.

Or this, at least, is what I believe.

[dramasnot6]

Fascinating questions Madhuri! Great thread :D

Our value and belief system is a very complicated thing. Our beliefs range in strength as well, some we keepn for life and some alter with age and experience. But if anything is a product of our context it is probably belief. At earlier ages they usually mimic those of family or any type of influential character in one's life, as we have not as developed a higher order thinking ability or ego to create our own, nor the experience. In some way it is also genetic, but again this differs in the type and strength of belief. A combination of context, be it social, personal, political, racial, societal, or anything else, experience, and early childhood influence and genetics would be the most basic way of summing up all contributors to one's value and belief system.

[vili]

In some way it is also genetic,
This is an interesting claim to make. In what sense is our belief system actually influenced by our genes?

I take it you are not referring to any specific beliefs, but rather to something like the fact that with a certain genetic make-up you may end up with a brain that produces more of a certain type of a chemical that leads to, say, the person believing in things like the supernatural easier, thus making it more probable that the person grows up being religious, and therefore his or her belief system becomes influenced by religious doctrines?

I know the above is an over-simplification of things, but was it something like this that you were thinking about, or something completely different? It would be interesting to read more about this. :)

[dramasnot6]

This is an interesting claim to make. In what sense is our belief system actually influenced by our genes?

I take it you are not referring to any specific beliefs, but rather to something like the fact that with a certain genetic make-up you may end up with a brain that produces more of a certain type of a chemical that leads to, say, the person believing in things like the supernatural easier, thus making it more probable that the person grows up being religious, and therefore his or her belief system becomes influenced by religious doctrines?

I know the above is an over-simplification of things, but was it something like this that you were thinking about, or something completely different? It would be interesting to read more about this. :)
That is basically what I meant, genetics do not have a direct link to specific beliefs but they certainly can influence a person's psychological tendencies and mindset. For example, if someone has a deppresive tendecy which is inhereted by their child and as a product of it is pessimistic in their belief system, that child might be the same as a result. Genetics are part of who we are, we develop a personality in the womb. It can change to an extent from experience, but some things stay the same, we are not completely changeable.Our personality influences our beliefs, and if we inherit certain personality tendencies or characteristics then in an indirect way we may inherent beliefs, or at least belief tendencies. :D Thanks for asking!

[smilingtearz]

agree to all the above...
"they" tell us it's correct.. we follow them.. it's all about being a part of a large society that believes a particular set of values to be correct.

[vili]

Thanks for asking!
Thanks for mentioning it! :D

[Madhuri]

Our personality influences our beliefs

And, the other way round too, we acquire certain beliefs and our behaviour and personality changes.

How about fear? people start believing all sorts of things just to overcome fear. They acquire certain beliefs which they think will help them encounter the fear.

[blazeofglory]

Beliefs spring from wherein you are rooted, the environment and the conditions you are conditioned b.

[Swamidragon]

Social factor is more important. Society dictates our beileves and some times they are so deeply enrooted that we cannot change them anymore, rest of the factors have minor influence. I'll give you some exemples to think about: God - although we don't have any physical evidence of His existence we still believe in Him,or if not in God in some superntarual being that infulences existence of Universe; educational system: sometimes it seems like it's useless and pointelss to go to school/academy and you see peoples who made it (busynessmen, politicians etc.) with only 9 or 10 classes, but you'll still end up going through it and eventually sending your children to follow your steps - because society sais that way is the only way: be borned->learn->work->retire->die=be usefull to society and you better be nice and quiet. Now tell me what you think of my point.

[jgweed]

Society>language>belief

[Smoogles]

I agree with jgweed, we are products of our environment short and simple.

[Hypercrit Htd]

The spiritual person beliefs come from personal knowledge of spiritual reality which may pose conflict with worldly consensus reality. That may result in holy war but it depend on indoctrination emphasis.

[The Atheist]

I agree with jgweed, we are products of our environment short and simple.

As long as that "enviroment" includes inherited DNA, then I'd probably agree with you.

Nice determinstic answer.

[blazeofglory]

As long as that "enviroment" includes inherited DNA, then I'd probably agree with you.

Nice determinstic answer.

DNA, and something that shapes you into what you are is sourced to something, and the last source at which everything originates. Is it God, or nature or anything we have yet to arrive at and that is from where ideas orginate.

The rest is gibbersihly construed through opnioners.

[The Atheist]

DNA, and something that shapes you into what you are is sourced to something, and the last source at which everything originates. Is it God, or nature or anything we have yet to arrive at and that is from where ideas orginate.

This sounds suspiciously like the slippery slope of Dennett's "greedy reductionism".

Not everything requires an explanation, some things just are.

[Smoogles]

As long as that "enviroment" includes inherited DNA, then I'd probably agree with you.

Nice determinstic answer.

Of course it includes DNA, if it didn't we'd be chimps throwing feces at each other. And, yes it has to do with 'who' you genetically are as an individual and how you interpret your environment, therefore, react to it. Deterministic.... we lack the free-will? Oh well I won't cry over what I never had. :bawling:

[The Atheist]

Of course it includes DNA, if it didn't we'd be chimps throwing feces at each other. And, yes it has to do with 'who' you genetically are as an individual and how you interpret your environment, therefore, react to it.

Just checking - some people do think it's all nurture, others think it's all nature and most somewhere inbetween.


Deterministic.... we lack the free-will? Oh well I won't cry over what I never had. :bawling:

Good choice!

:D

[blazeofglory]

Ideas, opinions and all the stuff originate from the environment, social or physical and apart from that nothing remains true as a matter of fact.

The DNA of man is something that does not generate ideas, and it simply conduces or facilitates and nothing else. Ideas are simply reflections of environmental factors.

[Smoogles]

Ideas, opinions and all the stuff originate from the environment, social or physical and apart from that nothing remains true as a matter of fact.

The DNA of man is something that does not generate ideas, and it simply conduces or facilitates and nothing else. Ideas are simply reflections of environmental factors.

So (correct me if I am wrong) are you saying that if we were all raised in a particular exact same environment we would all have the same reasoning, rationalization, and mental ability as every other person? This doesn't seem to be human, everyone's genetics have to play some roll in how they interpret certain things, for example strokes, colorblindness, and autism. :crash:

[The Atheist]

Ideas, opinions and all the stuff originate from the environment, social or physical and apart from that nothing remains true as a matter of fact.

The DNA of man is something that does not generate ideas, and it simply conduces or facilitates and nothing else. Ideas are simply reflections of environmental factors.

I agree with where you're going, but ideas aren't all we consist of. Plus, in some ways, the ideas we're capable of embracing are very much a product of our genes. That's why not everyone can become a scientist or engineer - there are different levels of intelligence, which is inherited, not learnt. Our beliefs are influenced by what we were born with.

[jgweed]

Even if belief (or perhaps a better word for it would be "opinion") were a product of society, would this mean that one could not in the first place understand that origin and then in the second, through rational mediation or critical analysis, in a sense transcend opinion?

[Adopt]

So (correct me if I am wrong) are you saying that if we were all raised in a particular exact same environment we would all have the same reasoning, rationalization, and mental ability as every other person? This doesn't seem to be human, everyone's genetics have to play some roll in how they interpret certain things, for example strokes, colorblindness, and autism. :crash:

While you do raise a sound point, you have looked over the fact that the WAY we perceive things may change, but the idea still originates from the environment. What an environment is perceived as for one person may not be the way another person perceives it, and each will form their ideas accordingly. Everyone doesn't experience senses like everyone else. We know this because of genetic disorders, but blazeofglory's theory still stands. Ideas are generated from environmental stimuli, however one may experience them.

[Smoogles]

While you do raise a sound point, you have looked over the fact that the WAY we perceive things may change, but the idea still originates from the environment. What an environment is perceived as for one person may not be the way another person perceives it, and each will form their ideas accordingly. Everyone doesn't experience senses like everyone else. We know this because of genetic disorders, but blazeofglory's theory still stands. Ideas are generated from environmental stimuli, however one may experience them.

I can see what you are saying, but saying that we perceive things differently automatically makes it somewhat genetically doesn't it? I mean people have different reactions to different things, if genetics had nothing to do with it then we would all respond the same way, and see the same things. But we don't, therefore, we must be affected to some extent by our DNA. But environment does play a huge factor in beliefs, so does our perception of our environment, and if everyone's is different everyone cannot be expected to respond the same way.

[The Atheist]

Even if belief (or perhaps a better word for it would be "opinion") were a product of society, would this mean that one could not in the first place understand that origin and then in the second, through rational mediation or critical analysis, in a sense transcend opinion?

You seem to be conflating things incorrectly. Certainly analysis changes opinion, but that's not transcendence, just re-appraisal in light of different input. I'm not sure why you see difficulty in understanding societal origins either.

[Adopt]

I can see what you are saying, but saying that we perceive things differently automatically makes it somewhat genetically doesn't it? I mean people have different reactions to different things, if genetics had nothing to do with it then we would all respond the same way, and see the same things. But we don't, therefore, we must be affected to some extent by our DNA. But environment does play a huge factor in beliefs, so does our perception of our environment, and if everyone's is different everyone cannot be expected to respond the same way.

A day later, a day wiser, I've reread my post and the argument could go either way. :P

[blazeofglory]

Beliefs come from the quivers / forces of nature. People rationalize forces / happenings in nature therefrom beliefs originate

[NiceCupOfWater]

for me gut feeling ,everything i learn since kindergarden ,my trust in the teacher that counting 123 and learning my abc were important even though i didnt get a huge meal or learn how to case after meat .then if i come up with some crazy idea that if jump off a building and think that i will survie just bc gut feeling i start to think logically instead ,because all persons who have jumped off a building die,since im a person then i will die.idk?

[blazeofglory]

So (correct me if I am wrong) are you saying that if we were all raised in a particular exact same environment we would all have the same reasoning, rationalization, and mental ability as every other person? This doesn't seem to be human, everyone's genetics have to play some roll in how they interpret certain things, for example strokes, colorblindness, and autism. :crash:

In fact we can not be the same and diversity is the law of nature, but our ideas are conditioned by our ancestors and societies and you go round and round the same social pivot. You can not escape the fetters of ideas that limit your capacity for thinking and going beyond the boundaries.