Veggie club :)

[dramasnot6]

Vegetarian now or at one point in your life? Maybe just interested in special diets? Whatever you are come on over and discuss Vegetarianism. Why do some get into it? How? Or, why do some not get into it? Did a friend influence you? See a documentary? Or just for the heck of it?
:)

EDIT: This thread is in no way trying to claim vegetarianism as a superior diet or trying to demoralize eating meat or prove anything about health.

[Adudaewen]

I have to say drama, I tried to be a vegitarian for about 6 weeks, but it didn't take. I live in cow country. Try ordering a vegitarian meal and you get looked at funny. ;)

[mir]

I couldn't be a vergetarian because i love chicken too much. :p but much of the stuff i cook is vegetarian.

[Jean-Baptiste]

Well, this isn't looking good for your new vegetarian community, Drama. I would consider becoming vegetarian for the fact that some of the best meals I've ever eaten contained no meat--but I love bacon. I also see the benefit in energy required for food production in a vegetarian society compared to that of live-stock support--but again, bacon. I do applaud those with a vegetarian bent. Is half vegetarian good enough?

[Virgil]

I don't understand why we must applaud vegetarianism. What is so noble about it? I can understand vegetarians who do it for religious reasons. And I do beleive that in the U.S. we probably eat more meat than is healthy for us. But that does not mean that no meat is healthier than some meat. I have never seen a statisitic that showed vegetarians having a longer life expectancy. Human beings have teeth designed for both meat and vegetables and a digestive system that accomodates both. It is natural for humans to eat meat. There is a higher concentration of nutrition packed in meat than in fruits and vegetables. It is healthy to have meat. It is human to have meat.

[dramasnot6]

I don't understand why we must applaud vegetarianism. What is so noble about it? I can understand vegetarians who do it for religious reasons. And I do beleive that in the U.S. we probably eat more meat than is healthy for us. But that does not mean that no meat is healthier than some meat. I have never seen a statisitic that showed vegetarians having a longer life expectancy. Human beings have teeth designed for both meat and vegetables and a digestive system that accomodates both. It is natural for humans to eat meat. There is a higher concentration of nutrition packed in meat than in fruits and vegetables. It is healthy to have meat. It is human to have meat.

Statistics? Easy, they are all over.


Percentage of corn grown in United States eaten by human beings: 20

Percentage of corn grown in United States eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in United States eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90

Percentage of carbohydrate wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 99

Percentage of dietary fibre wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 100

How frequently a child dies of starvation: Every 2 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on 1 acre of land: 20,000

Pounds of beef that can be produced on 1 acre of land: 165

Percentage of U.S. agricultural land used to produce beef: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce 1 pound of feedlot beef: 16

Pounds of protein fed to chickens to produce 1 pound of protein as chicken flesh: 5 pounds

Pounds of protein fed to hogs to produce 1 pound of protein as hog flesh: 7.5 pounds

Number of children who starve to death every day: 40,000

Number of pure vegetarians who can be fed on the amount of land needed to feed 1 person consuming meat-based diet: 20

Number of people who will starve to death this year: 60,000,000

Number of people who could be adequately fed by the grain saved if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 60,000,000


From http://www.aapn.org/vegstats.html







"fruits and vegetables" are not the only source of food in the vegetarian or even vegan diet. There is a huge world of NUTS and SEEDS and LEGUMEs out there that more then adequately supply one with a balance of amino acids, omegas, iron, and LOTS of other vitamins and minerals. The Meat Production industry, as you see from the above statistics, is also wasteful compared to the grain, bean and veggie industry, contributing greatly to pollution and costing more money. Not to mention the animal cruelty. Only a VERY tiny percentage of meat production is Free Range or some other form of relatively humane treatment, most are cruel and wasteful.


This site has VERY valid information, much of which is taken from government statistics, around Vegetarianism. http://www.selfempowermentacademy.com.au/pdf/L3_LIVING_on_LIGHT/Glob_Journ/5-vvmbd.PDF


**Inhumane Treatment of Livestock**
121. Wingspan of average leghorn chicken: 26 inches (66 cm)
122. Space average leghorn chicken is given in egg factories: 6 inches 15.3 cm)
123. Number of 700+ lb. (318+ kg) pigs confined to space the size of a twin bed in typical factory farm:
3
124. Reason today¹s veal is so tender: Calves are never allowed to take a single step.
125. Reason today¹s veal is whitish-pink: Calves forced-fed on anemia producing diet
126. McDonald¹s brags: billions and billions sold
127. McDonald¹s does not brag about: millions and millions butchered
128. McDonald¹s clown, Ronald McDonald, tells children: Hamburgers grow in hamburger patches
and love to be eaten.
129. McDonald¹s clown, Ronald McDonald, does not tell children: Hamburgers are ground up, cooked
cows who have had their throats slit by machetes or their brains bashed in with sledgehammers.
130. Original actor to play Ronald McDonald: Jeff Juliano
131. Diet now followed by Jeff Juliano: Vegetarian
132. Number of animals killed for meat per hour in the U.S.: 500,000
133. Occupation with highest turnover rate in the U.S.: Slaughterhouse worker
134. Cost to render an animal unconscious prior to slaughter with captive bolt pistol so that process in
done humanely: $.01
135. Reason given by meat industry for not utilizing captive bolt pistol: Too expensive.




**Meat, Dairy, and Egg Industries**
67. Meat, dairy and egg industries claim there is no reason to be concerned about your blood cholesterol
as long as it is: ³normal²
68. Risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries (atherosclerosis) if your blood cholesterol is
³normal²: over 50%
69. Risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries (atherosclerosis) if you do not consume
saturated fat and cholesterol: 5%
70. Leading sources of saturated fat and cholesterol in American diets: Meat, dairy products, and eggs
71. World populations with high meat intakes who do not have correspondingly high rates of colon
cancer: none
72. World populations with low meat intakes who do not have correspondingly low rates of colon
cancer: none
73. Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat daily compared to women who eat meat
less than once a week: 4 times higher
74. Egg Board¹s advertising slogan: ³The incredible, edible egg.²
75. Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat eggs daily compared to women who eat eggs less
than once a week: 3 times higher
76. Milk producer¹s original advertising campaign slogan: ³Everyone needs milk.²
77. What the Federal Trade Commission called the ³Everyone needs milk² slogan: ³False, misleading
and deceptive.²
78. Milk producer¹s revised campaign slogans: ³Milk has something for everybody,² and ³Milk does a
body good.²
79. Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat butter and cheese 3 or more times a week
compared to women who eat these foods less than once a week: 3 times higher
80. Part of female chicken¹s body that produces eggs: Ovaries
81. Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or more times a week compared to
women who eat eggs less than once a week: 3 times higher
82. Food males in the U.S. are conditioned to think of as ³manly²: Animal products (mostly meat)
83. Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who consume meats,cheese, milk and eggs daily
compared to men who eat these foods sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times higher
84. The Meat Board tells you: ³Today¹s meats are low in fat.²
85. The Meat Board shows you: A serving of beef they claim has ³only 300 calories.²
86. The Meat Board does not tell you: The serving of beef they show you is only 3 ounces (85 grams),
which is half the size of an average serving of beef, and has been surgically de-fatted with a scalpel.
87. The dairy industry tells you: Whole milk is 3.5% fat.
88. The dairy industry does not tell you: That 3.5% figure is based on weight and most of the weight in
milk is water.
89. The dairy industry does not want you to know: The amount of calories as fat in whole milk is
50%.
90. The meat company Oscar Mayer tells you: It is a ³myth² that hot dogs are fatty.
91. Oscar Meyer demonstrates their point by comparing the fatness of hot dogs to such high-fat
bastions as mayonnaise, margarine, salad dressing, and cream cheese.
92. The Dairy Council tells you: Milk is Nature¹s most perfect food.
93. The Dairy Council does not tell you: Milk is Nature¹s most perfect food for a baby calf, who has
(Continued from page 3)
(Continued on page 5)
four stomachs, will double its weight in 47 days, and is destined to weigh 300 pounds (136 kg) within
a year.
94. The Dairy Council tells children to: Grow up big and strong and drink lots of milk.
95. The Dairy Council occasionally tells children: The enzyme necessary for digestion of milk is
lactase.
96. The Dairy Council never tells children: 20% of Caucasian children and 80% of black children have
no lactase in their intestines (Humanity has gone so far as to create a pill that aids in the digestion of
dairy products. This is just as insane as taking a pill before you drink motor oil to help in the digestion
of that motor oil. If your body is not
designed to naturally digest a certain substance then maybe you should not consume it).
97. The meat, dairy and egg industries tell you: Animal products constitute 2 of the ³Basic 4² food
groups.
98. The meat, dairy and egg industries do not tell you: There were originally 12 basic food groups,
before these industries applied enormous political pressure on behalf of their products.
99. The meat, dairy and egg industries tell you: You are well-fed only with animal products.
100. The meat, dairy and egg industries do not tell you: The diseases which are commonly prevented,
consistently improved, and even cured by a vegetarian diet include: Heart disease, strokes, osteoporosis,
kidney stones, breast cancer, colon cancer, prostate cancer, pancreatic cancer, ovarian cancer, cervical
cancer, stomach cancer, endometrial cancer, diabetes, hypoglycemia, kidney disease, peptic ulcers,
constipation, hemorrhoids, hiatal hernias, diverticulosis, obesity, gallstones, hypertension, asthma,
irritable colon syndrome, salmonellosis, trichinosis, etc.


Now Virgil. This was started as a DISCUSSION and not a raging , personal debate. I posted the above so that people would not be misinformed, not to fight you. If anyone else is interested in information around nutrition and particulary vegetarianism, I would reccomend it as a great field to research and can give some other good web/book sources. I did not start this thread to hold my personal beliefs above anyone else's or to try to "convert" anyone to a certain nutritional view. It is merely a discussion, if you can not respect that then you can take it up with the moderators.

[Logos]

I don't understand why we must applaud vegetarianism. What is so noble about it?
? I don't see anything in the OP to suggest we should 'applaud' it, or that it is 'noble'.

To the OP: I don't consciously choose to not eat meat, I just happen to like lots of foods that don't use a lot of meat :D (Afghan, Middle Eastern, West Indies, Moroccan etc) I might go days/a week or so before I actually eat meat. I make a lot of curries with a veggie base (tomato or spinach usually) and I eat lots of chick peas and lentils because they're so versatile and I love them.

[Virgil]

Now Virgil. This was started as a DISCUSSION and not a raging , personal debate.

Who's raging? Nor was I raging on the Nietzsche thread. Threads are I take it for discussion purposes, even of people disagree with the thread starter's position. Are we here to just validate a position and not expect anyone to disagree? That's not discussion; that's emotional soothing.

Jean-B applauded vegetarianism. He used that word and it struck me. I don't either applaud or despise it. But there is another perspective. Humanity as a rule is not vegetarian and i don't understand the propaganda that says its better for you. If people choose vegetarianism for whatever reason, fine. But I don't expect guilt to be placed on people who don't choose it.

Bottom line on all that data is this: does life expectancy improve for vegetarians?

[Logos]

If anybody has any veggie recipes, simple ones, like for dips, salads, etc. would love to see them. I'll share a couple of mine when I get them typed up :)

[kathycf]

I like barley and when it is cold out this is nice soup:

From Vegetarian Times...

Barley Soup with Root Vegetables 01-Jan-06 p63
Serves 8 -- Vegan

Nutty-tasting barley and sweet, mild celery root make a homey soup with old-fashioned flavor. To speed up cooking time, replace the pearl barley with quick-cooking barley, add it with the carrots and celery root and simmer the soup for about 20 minutes total.

1 Tbs. olive oil
3 medium-sized leeks, white and pale green parts only, sliced (about 2 cups)
3 cloves garlic, minced (about 1 Tbs.)
1/3 cup pearl barley
2 cubes low-sodium vegetable bouillon
3 medium-sized carrots, diced (about 1 1/2 cups)
1 small celery root, peeled and diced (about 1 1/2 cups)
1/3 cup chopped fresh dill
1 Tbs. lemon juice

Directions:

1. Heat oil in large pot over medium heat. Add leeks, and cook 5 minutes, or until softened, stirring often. Add garlic, and sauté 30 seconds. Stir in barley. Add 7 cups water and bouillon cubes. Bring soup to a boil. Reduce heat to low, skim off any froth, cover and simmer 20 minutes.

2. Add carrots and celery root. Cover, and simmer 20 to 25 minutes more, or until barley and vegetables are tender. Just before serving, stir in dill, lemon juice and black pepper to taste.

PER SERVING: 79 CAL; 2 G PROT; 2 G TOTAL FAT (0 SAT. FAT); 14 G CARB.; 0 MG CHOL; 276 MG SOD.; 3 G FIBER; 2 G SUGARS

*edit*
No moralizing intended but a diet high in saturated fat and cholesterol (which meat has, although some cuts are leaner than others) does shorten the life span, and a diet high in fiber/vitamin rich foods (vegetables, fruits, legumes) has been shown to lessen the incidence of certain types of cancers and is more heart healthy. This is not to say that the only way to be healthy is to cut out all meat, it is just to say that one can have a high quality healthy diet without it. :)

[SleepyWitch]

Who's raging? Nor was I raging on the Nietzsche thread. Threads are I take it for discussion purposes, even of people disagree with the thread starter's position. Are we here to just validate a position and not expect anyone to disagree? That's not discussion; that's emotional soothing.

Jean-B applauded vegetarianism. He used that word and it struck me. I don't either applaud or despise it. But there is another perspective. Humanity as a rule is not vegetarian and i don't understand the propaganda that says its better for you. If people choose vegetarianism for whatever reason, fine. But I don't expect guilt to be placed on people who don't choose it.

Bottom line on all that data is this: does life expectancy improve for vegetarians?

(I'm a veggie, too)
hey old Virg, your evolutionary argument is slightly flawed, in my humble opinion. I agree that people are equipped with the right kind of teeth and digestive tract to eat meat. But even back in the stone age, eating meat would have been the exception rather than the rule because it was such a big hassle to catch the meat in the first place. Even as late as in the Middle Ages, having meat was a very special treat. I think even the richest and most powerful people ate meat only a couple of times a year and the poor were lucky if they had meat once a year.
in other words, our bodies can cope with small amounts of meat but not necessarily with the huge amounts people eat nowadays. I heard several reports on a public news radio station where they interviewed doctors and nutritionists and they said you shouldn't eat meat more than once a week.

anyways, there's no need to feel offended by vegetarians. I know that lots of them go around preaching and trying to convert people, but I'm sure that's not what drama intended. If you like meat, go ahead and eat as much of it as you want. (of course, you could try organic meat. NOT because it's a noble thing to do but because organic meat happens to taste much better and our Uncle Virgil deserves it :D )

[bluevictim]

Bottom line on all that data is this: does life expectancy improve for vegetarians?Yeah, I want to know, too. I've been eating meat to shorten my life. I want out!

[Riesa]

It is human to have meat.

:p ick. I am not vegetarian, I eat fish. and I will ignore that my favorite tex-mex restaurant Taco Cabana's refried beans reek with lard, and I'll cook bacon or cow eyeballs, even, if requested, (no one has as yet) but the other night I was preparing baby-back ribs for the grill, and my seven year old is looking on with a mix of horror and fascination on his face at the bloody gore I'm slicing up and asks..."what are those?" And I said "they're ribs", and he said.."are they human ribs?" as if that wouldn't be so odd. :lol:
Personally, eating meat makes me feel sick, like I am eating Human. and so I steer clear, pun intended. :)

[kathycf]

:p ick. the other night I was preparing baby-back ribs for the grill, and my seven year old is looking on with a mix of horror and fascination on his face at the bloody gore I'm slicing up and asks..."what are those?" And I said "they're ribs", and he said.."are they human ribs?" as if that wouldn't be so odd. :lol:
Ewwww! :p And dancing broccoli agrees with me. http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/kathycf/smileys/anim_broc.gif Eww!

Personally, eating meat makes me feel sick, like I am eating Human. and so I steer clear, pun intended. :)
Me too, although there are certain times of the year when I will eat turkey.

[bluevictim]

And dancing broccoli agrees with me. http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/kathycf/smileys/anim_broc.gif You mean, before you ate him?

[kathycf]

You mean, before you ate him?
Smartypants. :p

[Virgil]

(I'm a veggie, too)
hey old Virg, your evolutionary argument is slightly flawed, in my humble opinion. I agree that people are equipped with the right kind of teeth and digestive tract to eat meat. But even back in the stone age, eating meat would have been the exception rather than the rule because it was such a big hassle to catch the meat in the first place.

Quite the contrary Sleepy. I don't know where you got your information, but it's wrong.


NEW TESTING ON FOSSIL REMAINS INDICATES PREHISTORIC MAN ATE BALANCED DIET
By ROBERT REINHOLD, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: January 9, 1982
A rich new understanding of the evolution of the human diet is beginning to emerge as a result of sophisticated chemical and microscopic tests on the fossil remains of prehistoric humans.

The results of these tests are challenging some long-held notions about the daily life of prehistoric people, particularly on the importance of meat in the ancient diet. According to one study, early man was neither so carnivorous nor so herbivorous as some previous studies have indicated, but instead had a more balanced diet. When Did Meat Enter the Diet?

Reports on the new tests were present ed at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which ended today, at the Washington Hilton Hotel. Glynn L. Isaac, an anthropologist at the University of Californi a at Berkeley, said the session was aimed at stimulating interest in this neglected aspect ofhuman evolution. Until now, research has been limited because the evidence was fragmentary and because direct e xperimental tests were not available.

Since today's primitive people who depend on hunting and gathering consume four to five times as much meat as nonhuman primates, a major question is when and how meat became a substantial part of the human diet.

One school of thought has held that early manlike creatures that flourished in Africa two million years ago were carnivores with males playing the key role in food gathering; the other has held that the diet was based more on vegetation, with females playing a dominant role.

Neither view is correct, according to Professor Isaac and two associates, Richard B. Potts, a lecturer at Yale University, and Henry T. Bunn, a doctoral student at Berkeley. Th e team has been examining the tools and food refuse in early hominid sites in Kenya and Tanzania. Microscopic examination of animal bones and stone toolsshowed signs of butchering and scraping of meat.

''We have direct evidence that early hominids did leave stone cuts on a variety of animals,'' Mr. Bunn said. But while this indicated meat eating was important, he said that the team advocated a ''balanced view,'' stating that the evidence did not suggest meat was used to the exclusion of plants. ''There is no reason to jump to the conclusion that early hominids, with half our brains, could successfully hunt and kill large animals,'' he said.

''Most of us who study early prehistory,'' Professor Isaac said, ''are firmly convinced that fruits, nuts and perhaps tubers, dug up with simple tools, were the mainstay of life.

''The interest in confirming that meat, too, had become more important than it was for monkeys and apes is that this may have helped produce a situation in which collective social acquisition of food was more advantageous than the individualistic feeding characteristic of our primate relatives. Strontium Levels Examined

''Collective acquisition of food may in turn have stimulated the development of language ability and of intricate social patterns.'' Other new techniques involve examining fossil teeth under an electron microscope for ''microwear'' clues to the type of food chewed and how it was obtained, and making chemical and carbon isotope analyses of skeletal remains for indications of lifetime diet.

For example, Margaret Schoeninger of the Johns Hopkins University and Andrew Sillen of the Smithsonian Institution have seized on new techniques of geochemistry to indicate that carnivores could be expected to have much lower levels of strontium in their bones than herbivores. Strontium, a major component in the earth's crust, is retained at different rates by animals and plants.

The two scientists theorized that fossil humans, as omnivores, would show strontium levels between those of carnivores and herbivores. This is exactly what was found when Dr. Sillen analyzed 10,000-year-old remains of humans and animals found in a cave in the western Galilee section of Israel. However, the strontium analysis was useless when attempted on 20,000-year-old specimens.
I didn't past ethe entire article since it was so long. you can find it here: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9803E6DB1038F93AA35752C0A964948260

One of the criteria that separates man from other primates is his more developed biology for consuming meat. Eating meat is human.

[SleepyWitch]

argh, my cooking vocab is a black hole, but I'll try anyway

*Sleepy's Banana Curry
(this is a curry i invented myself, Maddie and Pensy are gonna hate me for it because it's very touristy, not 'originally' Indian/Pk at all. it's extremely nourishing)

you need:
tomatoes, onion, ginger root, garlic, raisins, bananas, peas, curry powder, oil,
rice

1. cut up the onions, ginger root, garlic
2. fry (right word?) the onion in oil, add the ginger and garlic
3. add cut-up tomatoes, stir until they are gone? juicy?liquid? (you know, when the peels shrivel up and the flesh turns into sauce?)
5. meanwhile, soak the raisins in water
4. add banana slices, peas, raisins and curry powder, stir
5. allow it to simmer for a while, but not very long
6. eat with rice

*Sleepy's Mum's Salad

veg:
canned (? it comes in a jar) white asparagus
kidney beans
button mushrooms (can be canned ones)
cucumber (--> slices)

dressing:
olive oil, vinegar, salt, sugar, a pinch of pepper, half a tea spoon of mustard, diced onion, cream (the kind you use for whipped cream), yoghurt, Thai Sauce for chicken (the hot&sweet one with pepper seeds in it (cf pic)

this salad is very nourishing, as well, you can eat this as a main course with some french bread
http://www.asiamahal.de/catalog/images/RTSweetChilliSauceL.JPG

[Virgil]

And here is another:



Meat a part of human diet for ~2.5 million years

The evidence of the fossil record is, by and large, clear: Since the inception of the earliest humans (i.e., the genus Homo, approximately 2.5 million years ago), the human diet has included meat. This is well-known in paleoanthropological circles, and is discussed in Setting the Scientific Record Straight on Humanity's Evolutionary Prehistoric Diet and Ape Diets.
The current state of knowledge regarding the diet of our prehistoric ancestors is nicely summarized in Speth [1991, p. 265]:


[S]tone tools and fossil bones--the latter commonly displaying distinctive cut-marks produced when a carcass is dismembered and stripped of edible flesh with a sharp-edged stone flake--are found together on many Plio-Pleistocene archaeological sites, convincing proof that by at least 2.0 to 2.5 Ma [million years ago] before present (BP) these early hominids did in fact eat meat (Bunn 1986; Isaac and Crader 1981). In contrast, plant remains are absent or exceedingly rare on these ancient sites and their role in early hominid diet, therefore, can only be guessed on the basis of their known importance in contemporary forager diets, as well as their potential availability in Plio-Pleistocene environments (for example, see Peters et al. (1984); Sept (1984). Thus few today doubt that early hominids ate meat, and most would agree that they probably consumed far more meat than did their primate forebears. Instead, most studies nowadays focus primarily on how that meat was procured; that is, whether early hominids actively hunted animals, particularly large-bodied prey, or scavenged carcasses...
I fully concur with the view that meat was a regular and important component of early hominid diet. For this, the archaeological and taphonomic evidence is compelling.


Early hominid diet was mixed, not exclusive

The comments in Mann [1981, pp. 24-25] further illuminate the above:

Nevertheless, given the available archaeological evidence and what is known of the dietary patterns of living gatherer/hunters and chimpanzees, it appears unlikely to me that all early hominids were almost exclusively carnivorous or herbivorous. It is more reasonable to suggest that the diet of most early hominids fell within the broad range of today's gatherer/hunter diets, but that within the wide spectrum of this adaptation, local environmental resources and seasonal scarcity may have forced some individual populations to become more dependent on vegetable or animal-tissue foods than others.

The remarks by Mann remind us of the obvious: that early hominid diets, like hunter-gatherer diets, are a function of local flora and fauna; such diets are limited to the local food base (and to food acquired via trading).


"Natural" behavior a function of evolution

The evidence that meat has been part of the human diet for ~2.5 million years, thus, directly implies that meat is a "natural" part of the human diet, where "natural" is defined as: those foods one is adapted to consume by evolution. (Side note to vegetarians: The fact that meat is a natural part of the evolutionary diet does not imply that one must, or even should, eat meat.)
Some raw dietary advocates, in apparent denial of the evolutionary evidence, try to turn "opportunistic feeding" into a straw-man argument. The straw-man argument they construct is that the claim meat can be a natural part of the diet is based solely on the idea that humans can (and do) eat meat; they then claim it is circular logic, asserting that the "possibility" is not evidence it is "natural." However, this type of criticism or straw-man argument is based on a rather astonishing ignorance of--or at least certainly a denial of--evolutionary adaptation and how it occurs (discussed below). As such, the anti-"opportunistic feeding" straw-man argument is logically invalid.


http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-3a.shtml

[SleepyWitch]

Quite the contrary Sleepy. I don't know where you got your information, but it's wrong.


I didn't past ethe entire article since it was so long. you can find it here: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9803E6DB1038F93AA35752C0A964948260

One of the criteria that separates man from other primates is his more developed biology for consuming meat. Eating meat is human.

i skimmed through the passage you quoted.. does it say exactly HOW much meat they ate?
I never said there was anything wrong with a BALANCED diet by the way. the thing is that the diet of most people in the developed world is dangerously skewed towards the meat side.
"Eating meat is human" yep sure, but that doesn't mean each and every human being has to eat meat if they don't want to.
Having a choice is human, too, isn't it?
--> if you want to eat meat, feel free to do it. I'm sure nobody in here will think any worse of you.
--> veggies don't want to eat meat. so what? it's up to them.

[Madhuri]

Hey Sleepy, I like the Banana curry recipe. I am a veggie too, not because I chose to, but because I had no choice, and I do plan to try out everything someday, including wine and other similar drinking stuff (Thank God my parents are not reading this, they will probably faint if they get to know I plan to do all this :p ).

I would love to see some more recipies. What you shared is an easy one :nod: I know of a few recipies, let me think of the proper procedure and then i'll share what I know here :D

[SleepyWitch]

Hey Sleepy, I like the Banana curry recipe. I am a veggie too, not because I chose to, but because I had no choice,
how come you had no choice? are your parents just radical veggies or is it some kind of caste thing? no offence meant, but our Geography prof who specialises on Asia told us in India vegetarianism is a status symbol of high caste... maybe it's not an overt status symbol (???) but he showed us a table of diets by caste and it turned out the lowests caste/poor people will eat anything (even beef) whereas the top castes are vegetarians/vegans

[SleepyWitch]

a little PS to annoy Uncle Virgil:
Taking cold showers is human. After all there were no hot ones in the stone age, so in terms of evolution, they are not human :D

[Virgil]

i skimmed through the passage you quoted.. does it say exactly HOW much meat they ate?

I think one of the articles said it was relative to what was available for each locale.


I never said there was anything wrong with a BALANCED diet by the way. the thing is that the diet of most people in the developed world is dangerously skewed towards the meat side.
I never said there was anything wrong with either balanced or unbalanced. I don't know how you measure (and remember I'm an engineer that deals with data) when it is "dangerously skewed towards the meat side." There are eskimo populations that live solely on animals, and very fatty animals at that.


"Eating meat is human" yep sure, but that doesn't mean each and every human being has to eat meat if they don't want to.
Having a choice is human, too, isn't it?
I hope I wasn't misinterpreted. I said I dissented from the general position of the thread because I sense a politically correct notion in our culture that eating meat is wrong. There seems to be some sort of positive moral value associated with vegetarianism. And you can see that with some of the posts here. I feel that it is human to eat meat. And anthropology seems to back me up. I neither applaud nor deplore vegetarianism.


--> if you want to eat meat, feel free to do it. I'm sure nobody in here will think any worse of you.
--> veggies don't want to eat meat. so what? it's up to them.
Oh for a good Sauerbraten right now. Mmmm. But with a good french or italian or californian red wine. :D Or perhaps a nice german beer. Oh I'm making myself hungry now. ;)

[SleepyWitch]

i guess eskimos are diffferent because they don't eat the processed rubbish that passes for "meat" in the US and Europe, plus i think the whale meat and stuff they eat has more of the healthy kind of fats (unsaturated?). plus they spend lots of time working outdoors (at least traditionally they did, I don't mean the ones who live in towns, spend all day in front of the telly and get boozed up).

the Mongols eat loads of meat too, in winter that is. In summer they eat only dairy products. but the difference there is that they don't drain the blood from the meat like they do in the western world. the blood contains lots of vitamins and minerals, which can compensate for the lack of veg in their diet. (maybe it's the same with the eskimos?)

[Madhuri]

*Oops* -- I was replying to Sleepy:D

Its not that I cant have, but since the beginning we never ate it (so in a way I didnt have any choice, because I didnt see the other side), also the people I knew never had non-vegetarian food. Its now that I have friends who eat, but it doesnt matter to me what they eat, and they also dont bother much if I eat or not.

And, yes its a caste thing, but not really a status symbol. It is primarily the caste thing, but nothing much to do with poor or rich people. Technically, the caste system translates to the nature of work people of certain castes did, and in a way to their financial soundness too. I know so many who are not so economically sound, but they refrain from eating non-veg because of the caste they belong to.

I can have it if I like, now, but I will have to make sure that my parents are not aware of it, I dont think they will like it. I can tell them also, and I know they wont be able to do much about it, but, it can also be that I really dont feel so inclined to eating non-veg, but yes I may try out everything atleast once.

Atleast in the cities there is not such distinction to be seen. It is difficult to follow such rigid rules, and somehow I dont find it practical as well. For example, in India you'll can follow these rules if you want to, but if you decide to live in a place where you get only meat, fish etc, (usually colder nations), what will that person do?

Hey but, lets discuss some more recipies:

Here is the one I know :blush: (I dont cook, though, so if something happens after eating it, you know you'll never find me :p :D)

Palak Paneer

Ingredients:

Spinach (Palak)
cheese pieces (Paneer) I searched and I found that it is 'acid-set fresh mozzarella' without salt
garlic
onions
oil
salt
green chillies / red chillies

Preparation:

1. Boil the Spinach
2. Mash it, and make a paste of it.
3. fry the cheese pieces until golden brown and keep aside.
4. In a frying pan, heat the oil
5. Fry the chopped onions (you can also fry its paste instead)
6. Put garlic and chillies, and fry some more.
7. Now put the spinach paste and simmer, and let it cook for some time. Add salt at this point.
8. Add the cheese pieces and let it simmer again.

After a while when you see that all is mixed and cooked well, its ready to be served. :)

It will look something like this :

http://www.paramparamix.com/heat&eat/images/palkpaneer.jpg

[kathycf]

*edit* Maddie, that looks really good! I had that type of cheese you mentioned in a local Indian restaurant and it was pretty tasty.

This looks pretty good, but I then really like asparagus. Some people don't care for it too much. (I think you need to get fresh asparagus and then steam it...canned doesn't do it justice.)

Lemon Pepper Pasta & Asparagus
From: Karen C. Greenlee

Serving Size: 4

* 4 ounces uncooked farfelle (bow-tie) pasta
* 1/4 cup olive oil
* 1 medium red bell pepper -- chopped
* 1 pound asparagus -- cut into 1" pieces
* 1 teaspoon grated lemon peel
* 1/2 teaspoon salt
* 1/2 teaspoon freshly ground pepper
* 3 tablespoons lemon juice
* 1 15-16 oz can Navy beans -- rinsed & drained
* freshly ground pepper

Cook and drain pasta per package directions.

While pasta is cooking, heat oil in a 12-inch skillet over medium high heat.
Cook bell pepper, asparagus, lemon peel, salt, and 1/2 tsp. pepper in oil, stirring occasionally, until vegetables are crisp-tender.
Add pasta; toss with vegetable mixture. Sprinkle with pepper.

I said I dissented from the general position of the thread because I sense a politically correct notion in our culture that eating meat is wrong. There seems to be some sort of positive moral value associated with vegetarianism. And you can see that with some of the posts here....
Oh for a good Sauerbraten right now. Mmmm. But with a good french or italian or californian red wine. :D Or perhaps a nice german beer. Oh I'm making myself hungry now. ;)
I really don't see that notion here myself. But thats just me. Hey, can I join you with a glass of wine? :) http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/kathycf/smileys/eatdrink047.gif

[Madhuri]

*edit* Maddie, that looks really good! I had that type of cheese you mentioned in a local Indian restaurant and it was pretty tasty.

I am glad you liked it :D If you are at any Indian restaurant, you need not translate it, just say Palak Paneer, and they'll know what you have asked for, there is a huge variety of cheese dishes that I know of :nod:. I'll post here more once I am sure of the recipe. Next time it will be even simpler...:)

[Logos]

Sleepy, I dunno about banana curry, I mean I can barely eat bananas on their own unless they're really green, but your salad sounds great! Sweet chili sauce is like ketchup to me :D

Madhuri, Paalak Paneer looks/sounds a lot like Saag Paneer? I make that all the time, but pretty much anything with spinach and I love it!

--

Ok here’s one.. I don’t really ‘do’ measuring, just eyeball things and taste as you go along :p so these measurements are approximate and all ingredients but broccoli are optional.

Broccoli salad:

4 stalks raw broccoli, cut into small bite size florets/pieces (I peel the stalks and use them too) so that you have about 6 cups total
4 medium sized carrots _thinly_ sliced
½ cup red onion, minced
1 green onion, finely sliced
½ cup red pepper, diced
½ cup dried cranberries or raisins
½ cup sunflower seeds and or sesame seeds
½ cup parsley, roughly chopped

Dressing:
2 tablespoons balsamic/rice wine/apple cider/red wine vinegar (I prefer apple cider because it is sweeter and seems to lend itself best to this combination YMMV)
2 tablespoons of olive oil
1 cup of feta cheese, crumbled (beef or goat)
1 cup cottage or ricotta cheese

Mix dressing in separate bowl first, then combine it with the broccoli etc. Chill in fridge for a few hours before eating :)

[Madhuri]

Madhuri, Paalak Paneer looks/sounds a lot like Saag Paneer? I make that all the time, but pretty much anything with spinach and I love it!

You got it!! :thumbs_up

Thats another name of the same thing :)

[dramasnot6]

Wow! Look at all these WONDERFUL veggie recipes! THank you so much you guys! I am really ashamed to say you have all reduced me to drooling :) Let me go look for some of my favorite ones! :D Thanks for reccomending it Logos!

[dramasnot6]

Broccoli salad:

4 stalks raw broccoli, cut into small bite size florets/pieces (I peel the stalks and use them too) so that you have about 6 cups total
4 medium sized carrots _thinly_ sliced
½ cup red onion, minced
1 green onion, finely sliced
½ cup red pepper, diced
½ cup dried cranberries or raisins
½ cup sunflower seeds and or sesame seeds
½ cup parsley, roughly chopped

Dressing:
2 tablespoons balsamic/rice wine/apple cider/red wine vinegar (I prefer apple cider because it is sweeter and seems to lend itself best to this combination YMMV)
2 tablespoons of olive oil
1 cup of feta cheese, crumbled (beef or goat)
1 cup cottage or ricotta cheese

Mix dressing in separate bowl first, then combine it with the broccoli etc. Chill in fridge for a few hours before eating

YUMMY! I have all those ingredients in my house today too! Perhaps I will make it for my mom for lunch and tell you how it turns out :) :thumbs_up Thanks!

[dramasnot6]

I like barley and when it is cold out this is nice soup:

From Vegetarian Times...


*edit*
No moralizing intended but a diet high in saturated fat and cholesterol (which meat has, although some cuts are leaner than others) does shorten the life span, and a diet high in fiber/vitamin rich foods (vegetables, fruits, legumes) has been shown to lessen the incidence of certain types of cancers and is more heart healthy. This is not to say that the only way to be healthy is to cut out all meat, it is just to say that one can have a high quality healthy diet without it. :)

Thank you very much Kathy! I wholeheartedly agree. As most of my friends are teenage girls, they are constantly obsessing over their weight and diet and ask me what to reccomend them. I always like to explain the more ideal, traditional "mediterranean" diet that is much less extreme then veganism or the like but considered very healthy is done in a balanced way. It concentrates on olive oil, lean meats like poultry and seafood(they are not so bad, it is really the red stuff that will be bad for your heart and arteries), lean dairy like feta, lots of fruit, whole grains, and lots of veggies. I am vegan for a large set of reasons and discovered long ago that it is morally wrong to try to change someone's diet for another person. If someone is to make a change in such an important area(you ARE what you eat:p ) they should be totally comfortable with it.

[dramasnot6]

anyways, there's no need to feel offended by vegetarians. I know that lots of them go around preaching and trying to convert people, but I'm sure that's not what drama intended. If you like meat, go ahead and eat as much of it as you want. (of course, you could try organic meat. NOT because it's a noble thing to do but because organic meat happens to taste much better and our Uncle Virgil deserves it :D )

Thank you sleepy! And you are right, that was not my intention at all and I apologize if the OP came off that way. I too support organic/free range meat! Cuts down on animal cruelty and is much healthier. :thumbs_up

[dramasnot6]

From a great site, but edited it a little to how i find it tastes best, http://www.veganchef.com/


1 cup Gala apples, unpeeled, cored, and diced
1 cup orange, cut into segments
1 T. orange juice
1 cup mung bean sprouts
1/3 cup celery, finely diced
3 T. green onion, thinly sliced
3 T. almonds, roughly chopped
1/3 - 1/2 cup French dressing( I usually skip on this because it has sugar in it and substitute a vinegar mix), divided
1 1/2 cups spinach, triple washed, patted dry, and roughly chopped
4 - 6-inch pita breads, split


In a glass bowl, place the apples and oranges, drizzle the orange juice over the top, and toss gently to combine. Add the mung bean sprouts, celery, green onions, and almonds, and toss gently with the apple-orange mixture. Drizzle 1/4 cup of the Dijon French Dressing(or vinegar :)) over the top and toss gently. Add the chopped spinach and enough additional Dijon French Dressing to moisten the mixture, and toss well to combine. Fill each pita bread half with 1/2 cup of the mixture and serve 2 pita bread halves per person.

Serves 4

[SleepyWitch]

Palak Paneer

Ingredients:

Spinach (Palak)
cheese pieces (Paneer) I searched and I found that it is 'acid-set fresh mozzarella' without salt
garlic
onions
oil
salt
green chillies / red chillies

Preparation:

1. Boil the Spinach
2. Mash it, and make a paste of it.
3. fry the cheese pieces until golden brown and keep aside.
4. In a frying pan, heat the oil
5. Fry the chopped onions (you can also fry its paste instead)
6. Put garlic and chillies, and fry some more.
7. Now put the spinach paste and simmer, and let it cook for some time. Add salt at this point.
8. Add the cheese pieces and let it simmer again.

After a while when you see that all is mixed and cooked well, its ready to be served. :)

It will look something like this :

http://www.paramparamix.com/heat&eat/images/palkpaneer.jpg

wow, that sounds delicious. i think i've had it at a restaurant once.

all your recipes sound great! too bad i only have a small stove. but my bf and me will move to a different flat together soon, so I'll have a big kitchen! then I'll try all your recipes

[dramasnot6]

Who here never had to be told to eat their veggies when they were a kid? :)

[Adudaewen]

I have to interject my small little opinion. As I said before, I am a failed veggie; my love of meat is too much. However, that being said, I love cows and chickens and sheep alive and I sincerely believe that any creature of God should be treated with respect regardless of its ultimate use. So if an animal is to be eaten I believe it should be treated humanely from birth to the slaughter house. And I refuse to eat veal. I think its cruel what they do to the claves for veal. And Americans eat too damned much meat. I totally agree. I think that you should eat meat at MOST twice a day and it should be 3 oz. per serving. Not like my family who eat meat I swear like 5 times a day and 12 oz per serving. *shiver* I weep for their arteries.

[Schokokeks]

I'm a vegetarian, too.
I have stopped eating meat 5 years ago, and after 3 years I also stopped discussing it with people. You can find statistics for both views, arguing back and forth that this way is healthier and that way is more natural. I think eating habits are a very personal thing, where no rational arguments can justifiably apply, unless you want to convince someone (and obviously there are veggie preachers and meat preachers, each provoked by the presence of the other).



Palak Paneer

Ingredients:

Spinach (Palak)
cheese pieces (Paneer) I searched and I found that it is 'acid-set fresh mozzarella' without salt
garlic
onions
oil
salt
green chillies / red chillies

Maddiiiiiiie !!! That's my absolute favourite recipe !!! :D
There's a Pakistani restaurant in the street next to my university building, and every Friday I'm taking Palak Paneer there for lunch. It so totally delicious! I always think of you and Pensive when eating it ;). The waiter is a very friendly guy, he's even teaching me the right accent to say "palak paneer" (I'm doing badly, I'm afraid :p).
Thank you so much for the recipe, though I don't think I'll dare to cook it at home, since I might spoil the good memory of it :D.

[Adudaewen]

hmmmmm, all you guys can come over and cook for me anytime!

[dramasnot6]

I have to interject my small little opinion. As I said before, I am a failed veggie; my love of meat is too much. However, that being said, I love cows and chickens and sheep alive and I sincerely believe that any creature of God should be treated with respect regardless of its ultimate use. So if an animal is to be eaten I believe it should be treated humanely from birth to the slaughter house. And I refuse to eat veal. I think its cruel what they do to the claves for veal. And Americans eat too damned much meat. I totally agree. I think that you should eat meat at MOST twice a day and it should be 3 oz. per serving. Not like my family who eat meat I swear like 5 times a day and 12 oz per serving. *shiver* I weep for their arteries.

most agreed Adu! If everyone who ate meat ate free range, organic meat I would be a much happier person, and they would all be healthier to boot.

[dramasnot6]

hmmmmm, all you guys can come over and cook for me anytime!

I would love to cook for everyone! We ought to have one big ol' LitNet feast where we can all read excerpt from our favorite Lit during the meal :D

[Logos]

So if an animal is to be eaten I believe it should be treated humanely from birth to the slaughter house. And I refuse to eat veal. I think its cruel what they do to the claves for veal.
I don't want to get into a debate about animal treatment, but I don't see the confinement of veal calves any more cruel than the confinement of poultry in cages and/or hundreds of them in very small spaces, and cattle in feedlots/dairy barns. Most of the meat production industry prospers on the smallest use of space for the max. amount of meat produced.

I am very grateful that within a 20km radius of where I live there are free-range steroid-free organic farms where I can get eggs/poultry/beef.

dramas, let me if/when you try the salad. When I serve it to guests they look incredulously at it like they just don't know what to think, that it's an odd combination of things, but they always seem to like it :)

[Logos]

Palak Paneer


Ah ok! so they are the same. I've tried different cheeses, mozzarella like in your recipe, Bocconcini, and mild cheddar, or you can use tofu too :) I find it helps if you dredge the cheese and/or tofu in flour before frying to get a slightly crispy coating, plus lots of basmati on the side :D

[LPRox015]

Thank you Mira for inviting me to participate in your Veggie Club thread. This was a great idea. It's nice to meet some people who are also vegetarian, like myself. All my friends here at home aren't vegetarian so the support is nice. :) THank you very much!

Everyone must try the Palak Paneer if they haven't already. Thanks Mad for posting the recipe. It's really yummy! :)

[Logos]

Hummus, Hummous

I find most hummus is too bland for me, so I add stuff to it (you can ignore or reduce stuff like garlic and onions, just keep trying it as you go along adding things to suit your own taste, and again this is a rough estimate on measurements, I usually just eyeball stuff :D )

540ml / 19oz. can of chick peas
540ml / 19oz. can of lentils
¼ cup diced onion
6 cloves garlic

I do only a rough chop of the above with the hand blender, I don’t like it when it’s really really smooth, I like a bit of texture to it. The rest I mix in by hand:

2 tablespoons olive oil
juice and pulp of one lemon
1 tablespoon chick pea flour
2 teaspoons cumin seed
2 teaspoons onion seed
2 teaspoons crushed red chilies
1 teaspoon cumin powder
1 teaspoon salt

When I’ve got it in serving bowl, I add a big handful of roughly chopped parsley on top. Of course it’s great on warm naan but also celery sticks, bagels, crackers, etc. :)

[kilted exile]

I havent tried Palak Paneer, however I did try a potato & cheese curry (Saag Aloo?) not long ago that was real good. The majority of the vegetables I eat are root veg and generally mashed

[Scheherazade]

I have not pledged my full allegiance to vegetarianism but I love QUORN (http://www.quorn.com/); a great break from the monotonous meals.

[Madhuri]

I didnt know Palak Paneer is a popular dish, I am quite surprised. I am glad too, to see that Indian food is liked by many. I'll post soon some of snacks recipe, you can have these snacks with tea or coffee.

Kilt -- that will be called Aloo (potato) - Paneer (cheese)

Saag is usually made of leafy vegetables, its like saying -- Saag of Palak (Spinach)

Palak Paneer is a very tasty dish, it is best when had with chapati / naan / missi roti / any other variety of chapati.

:D

[dramasnot6]

I will try to make the Palak Paneer with tofu, since I remember how much I loved the dish in my non-vegan days! Thanks Maddie :) Logos, I LOVE making hommus. It is so simple, healthy and delicious! I make mine with a lot of fresh herbs, i find that is what's best to strengthen the flavor.

[dramasnot6]

Thank you Mira for inviting me to participate in your Veggie Club thread. This was a great idea. It's nice to meet some people who are also vegetarian, like myself. All my friends here at home aren't vegetarian so the support is nice. :) THank you very much!


Glad to have you on board!

[Poetess]

I`m a semi-veggie; however, i`m more into vegetables.
I barely eat Meat.. If i`m really under pressure I would have chicken burger for instance.
I`m wonted to eating rice since UAE days. Rice all the way, salads, fruits...

[dramasnot6]

I too like love salads and fruits and I eat a lot of brown rice. :D Sometimes I even make a brown rice salad topped with a bit of fruit like apple pieces or lemon zest.

[Poetess]

How is it done?

[Koa]

Apart from the fact that we had this topic before but I'm too lazy to look for it because it'd take real ages... I'm not a veggie and I wouldn't be able to be one. I do like meat and I am not particularly fond of vegetables... :blush: and I do think that meat is a part of the food chain so it's not 'wrong' to eat it. There are short moments when I feel weird about eating meat, like when I cook it myself and I see it raw and yuck, but no I wouldn't be able to. Since I leave alone, I don't often cook meat as it takes time, so I go a bit longer than usual without it, until I happen to eat out etc., so that I happen to miss it, until I realise that maybe I had a small sandwich or something that actually contained meat anyway - so even if I'd cut on the steak, no way I'd be able to erase meat from my diet.

I think that for a high percentage of veggies it's not as much as a choice for health etc., it's more that they don't like meat anyway so it's easier and nicer to be a veggie. There are an awful lot of "vegetarians" that will never tell you about the good sides and blah because they simply do it cos they don't like meat and claiming themselves 'veggie' solves the problem. As some people here said, they tried to be vegetarians but failed, I suppose that those who succeed do it because they never really liked meat much anyway... unless some are really stubborn and deprive themselves of something they like because of their beliefs (save the animal) or for health.

[Jean-Baptiste]

Jean-B applauded vegetarianism. He used that word and it struck me. I don't either applaud or despise it. But there is another perspective. Humanity as a rule is not vegetarian and i don't understand the propaganda that says its better for you. If people choose vegetarianism for whatever reason, fine. But I don't expect guilt to be placed on people who don't choose it.

Sorry, Virgil. I didn't mean to suggest that it was necessarily a better way of life. I've had it asserted to me that vegetarianism is so much more economical than raising large amounts of live-stock (which could be a flawed argument, I don't know.) That's all I meant. I should have been more definite in my stance. I agree with your basic assertion that humans are naturally omnivorous. As for being "better for you" health-wise, I don't camp in that spot, regardless of statistics. And by that, I don't mean to suggest that the statistics are skewed--it simply doesn't concern me. My opinion was based entirely on economics.

:) No guilt! :)

[kathycf]

I think that for a high percentage of veggies it's not as much as a choice for health etc., it's more that they don't like meat anyway so it's easier and nicer to be a veggie. There are an awful lot of "vegetarians" that will never tell you about the good sides and blah because they simply do it cos they don't like meat and claiming themselves 'veggie' solves the problem. As some people here said, they tried to be vegetarians but failed, I suppose that those who succeed do it because they never really liked meat much anyway... unless some are really stubborn and deprive themselves of something they like because of their beliefs (save the animal) or for health.
I think many people choose a vegetarian lifestyle for a number of reasons. I don't think it has to be just one reason. They could choose for religious reasons and health too. Whatever else we as people have in common, we all need to eat to sustain life, which is why recipes are so cool.

I see nobody has stepped up to the plate with some TURNIP recipes, so I will take on this honor and post a few...:p ;) :D

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/kathycf/smileys/icon-turnip.gif

Cheesey mashed "Neeps" (turnips)


2 large white turnips, peeled and cubed

3 to 4 ounces Swiss cheese, grated

3 tablespoons butter

seasonings to taste

Boil turnips in salted water for about 30 to 35 minutes. Drain off water.
Mash with a potato masher.
Add butter, seasonings and cheese.
Mix until cheese starts to melt, then stop mixing.
Serve.


Scalloped Turnips

3 medium turnips, peeled and thinly sliced
2 tablespoons butter or margarine
2 tablespoons plain flour
3/4 pint milk
1 teaspoon salt
freshly ground pepper
4 to 5 ounces grated mild Cheddar cheese

Cook turnips uncovered in boiling salted
water over for 15 minutes or until tender.
Drain; transfer to a lightly greased
2-pint casserole.
Melt butter in a heavy saucepan over low
heat; blend in flour, and cook 1 minutes,
stirring constantly.
Gradually stir in milk; cook over medium heat, stirring constantly,
until thickened and bubbly. Stir in salt and pepper.
Pour sauce over turnips; sprinkle
with cheese. Bake at 220 C 10 minutes.
Makes 6 servings

[dramasnot6]

How is it done?

I pressure cook the brown rice(but there are many ways to cook it, just like regular rice) with various spices and fresh herbs then mix it in a bowl with corn, chopped tomatotos, chopped cucumber, capsicum(or red pepper), green onion and kalamata olives. I then take just a little bit of fruit and sprinkle it on the top. :D

[dramasnot6]

I think that for a high percentage of veggies it's not as much as a choice for health etc., it's more that they don't like meat anyway so it's easier and nicer to be a veggie. There are an awful lot of "vegetarians" that will never tell you about the good sides and blah because they simply do it cos they don't like meat and claiming themselves 'veggie' solves the problem. As some people here said, they tried to be vegetarians but failed, I suppose that those who succeed do it because they never really liked meat much anyway... unless some are really stubborn and deprive themselves of something they like because of their beliefs (save the animal) or for health.

This is completely in perspective. I have been vegetarian for 2.5 years and vegan for 1 but before that I ate meat,particulary seafood, quite frequently and really liked certain types. I got into for a very large range of reasons,not all were animal rights. When you change your diet you change your taste. THe first 2 months I craved meat occasionally but today I find it difficult to even sit next to someone while they are eating meat. Your body and palate adapt very easily and get used to a routine, this can happen with everyone, the time it takes for them to adapt just varies. I have met vegetarians who stopped craving meat after 2 weeks and some who took 4 months to get over it. Usually no more then that though. Biologically, cravings are 90% of the time a product of need for a particular nutritional element like protein or fiber. If one usually eats meat for their protein, when their body needs to refuel that is usually what they crave because their brain primarily associates meat with protein. But when you become veggie and eat other sources of protein/B-12/iron, etc. your brain adapts and then associates non-meat sources with protein.

[Madhuri]

A snacks recipe:

Vegetable Pakora

Ingredients:

1. vegetables -- 1 potato, 1 onion, 6-7 green chillis, or any other item of which you wish to make a pakora, such as cheese slices.
2. Chick pea flour - 2 cups
3. Garlic slices - 3-4
5. Salt -- as per taste
6. Green / red chillies - as per spiciness desired, chop the green chillies.
7. Oil to fry

Method:

- Peel and make thin slices of the potato and onion, do not chop onions finely.
- Put the chick pea flour into a bowl.
- Add the crushed garlic pieces, salt and chilli.
- Put some water into the bowl, and make a paste, but not very thick paste or thin either, just about right to cover the vegetables.
- Heat the oil.
- Dip the slices of vegetables in the batter, make sure they are nicely covered in the batter, and put it in the frying pan, fry it until golden brown and crisp.

Pakoras are ready, you can have it with some tomato ketchup or any chutney

This much quantity will serve about 3-4 people.

Here is what it will look like:

Pakora: http://www.nandyala.org/mahanandi/images/bajji/bajji2.jpg

Warning: This snack requires frying and has oil, so beware all those who are calorie conscious :D

[Lioness_Heart]

I've been vegetarian for ages now... since I was about 5, I think. I first started because I got ill and had to have a really careful diet and everything, and now I've just carried on being vegetarian, I guess because I just had got used to not having meat, so when I did have it then it didn't taste right. Also, when we were studying energy transfer in Biology last year, we learned that because of the massive amounts of energy lost at each stage of the food chain, eating vegetarian means that there is less energy lost overall, making it healthier.

[Miss Darcy]

My vegetarian biography is pretty simple to summarize: I've been vegetarian ever since I was in my mother's stomach (she's vegetarian). Why? Ethically - don't kill animals for food if you can so easily (and also deliciously) live without meat. And also, it is healthier. One gets protein from chick-peas, beans, etc. ...lots of brown rice and tofu.

I do have a weakness (also describable as a passion) for vegetarian ("mock") meat. Vegetarian chicken especially. Absolutely scrumptious.

Edit: A vegetarian (contrary to what some people in restaurants think) does not eat fish or chicken.

[kathycf]

I don't claim to be a vegetarian, I just like eating vegetable and grain based foods quite a bit more than meat. As far as vegetarian "mock" meat, some of it is very very good, I agree with you Miss Darcy.

I like veggie burgers alot, but moreso the ones that really get into the veggie part and don't pretend to be hamburgers. Gardenburger is a good brand, available at most mainstream grocer's here in the US. Morningstar Farms is another mainstream one, and for veggie patties, entrees and appetizers (frozen food) Amy's Organics is a good brand. (really good, and convenient!) :D

[dramasnot6]

I've been vegetarian for ages now... since I was about 5, I think. I first started because I got ill and had to have a really careful diet and everything, and now I've just carried on being vegetarian, I guess because I just had got used to not having meat, so when I did have it then it didn't taste right. Also, when we were studying energy transfer in Biology last year, we learned that because of the massive amounts of energy lost at each stage of the food chain, eating vegetarian means that there is less energy lost overall, making it healthier.

This is very true Lioness. A non-meat diet usually puts less stress on the digestive system. Thanks for joining the thread :)

[dramasnot6]

Oh? Are we discussing veggie burgers? Yum! I usually dont buy those at a store because I try to stay as organic as possible but I often make my own Lentil Burgers and fallafels. :D

[dramasnot6]

( just as a side note I will emphasize again I did not create this thread as a way to say eating meat is inferior or anything like that if anyone is offended)

[B-Mental]

If you are all very kind to me I will share my recipe for Pete's Too Hot For Cajuns Veggie Chili

[dramasnot6]

Oh please do B-Mental! That would be a delight!

[Nightshade]

Huum not a veggie but I do love vegtables and when I go out I have a tendcy for opting for veggie menus. Does anyone know how to make spinach and riccotto cannalloni ( I could live off those....:D:D)

? I don't see anything in the OP to suggest we should 'applaud' it, or that it is 'noble'.

To the OP: I don't consciously choose to not eat meat, I just happen to like lots of foods that don't use a lot of meat :D (Afghan, Middle Eastern, West Indies, Moroccan etc) I might go days/a week or so before I actually eat meat. I make a lot of curries with a veggie base (tomato or spinach usually) and I eat lots of chick peas and lentils because they're so versatile and I love them.
whats OP??? :confused:

Err middleearstern without meat ??:brow: Ive never know a middleeasternn meal except kosharii of course without atleast some form of meat.

A snacks recipe:

Vegetable Pakora

Ingredients:

1. vegetables -- 1 potato, 1 onion, 6-7 green chillis, or any other item of which you wish to make a pakora, such as cheese slices.
2. Chick pea flour - 2 cups
3. Garlic slices - 3-4
5. Salt -- as per taste
6. Green / red chillies - as per spiciness desired, chop the green chillies.
7. Oil to fry

Method:

- Peel and make thin slices of the potato and onion, do not chop onions finely.
- Put the chick pea flour into a bowl.
- Add the crushed garlic pieces, salt and chilli.
- Put some water into the bowl, and make a paste, but not very thick paste or thin either, just about right to cover the vegetables.
- Heat the oil.
- Dip the slices of vegetables in the batter, make sure they are nicely covered in the batter, and put it in the frying pan, fry it until golden brown and crisp.

Pakoras are ready, you can have it with some tomato ketchup or any chutney

This much quantity will serve about 3-4 people.

Here is what it will look like:

Pakora: http://www.nandyala.org/mahanandi/images/bajji/bajji2.jpg

Warning: This snack requires frying and has oil, so beware all those who are calorie conscious :D

yummmiee!! oh wait not allowed to fry:(:(
But delious thing is veggie lasgne espicially as I dont like mince meat.

[dramasnot6]

Err middleearstern without meat ?? Ive never know a middleeasternn meal except kosharii of course without atleast some form of meat.
I always love a fallafel at a middle eastern restuarant, that has no meat.

[Nightshade]

yes but thats not a meal.... that a side dish, unless of course you have it for breakfast but still you might have a fallafil sandwhich a howoshi ( meat but smelly, I really dont like it), a fooul ( beans) sandwhich and egg.
Although you might not have all at once but more than one type is normal.
And then again you have your green falfil ( the egyptian one sooo much nicer than yellow fallefel which is the Levant ones)

[dramasnot6]

i dont think I have ever had the green one! sounds yummy!

[Nightshade]

They are .. Ithink the green is coriandor but then again it might be the type of bean which reminds me Im starving! and I have some frozen falefel I could eat.....:D:D

[Niamh]

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/gaijinian/Picture048.jpg

Mouthwateringly tasty!

[dramasnot6]

Thanks for the fruit Niam! I LOVE FRUIT! If i could become frugivorous(perhaps i can change species to some sort of prosimian?:p) I would. :D

Whats everyone's fav type of fruit?

[dramasnot6]

My favorite is most types of berries all mixed, esp bluberries :D

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p231/dramasnot6/mixed_berry_salad.jpg
I love many types of temperate and tropical though. Lychees, mangoes, papayas, watermelon, plums....GAH! Hungry now!
I wish i could get some of these, but they are very expensive here :(

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p231/dramasnot6/04jul_lychee1.jpg

[Nightshade]

Pineapple! wait thats not a fruit.... I love all the citris family except clemintines which sweet which is just wierd if you ask me, Melon, no mango, no CUCuMBER ! yes cucumber is my facvourite... I can eat 2 kg in a day:D:D

[Nightshade]

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p231/dramasnot6/04jul_lychee1.jpg

I saw those the other day in ASDA , you are uk based arent you? they cranked down the price it was somthing like 90p for about 12... what are they??

[dramasnot6]

I live in Australia actually. They are lychees and at their cheapest I have seen them around $20 american dollars(22 Aus dollars, i hope i did the math approx. right). They are really juicy but really sweet and delicious!

I always counted Cucumbers as veggies but love them as well! Many times for a meal I will just chop cucumbers and tomatos and throw in whatever else in terms of beans/soy/herbs/dressings. It's delish and can have a lot of varieties for just one dish.

[Madhuri]

Those fruits are so delicious Drame, but they are very expensive at your place. Litchies are delicious, I love watermelons too....yummmmm.....I am now wanting to have all of these, you shouldnt have posted the pictures....

[papayahed]

Boy, I think I got to this party a little late. I would love to go vegetarian but I just can't help loving Cheeseburgers and Chicken parmesian, I get Vegetarian Times magazine to try and get a wider variety and more ideas on how to prepare my veggies.

I guess you could call me a "wannabe"

[cuppajoe_9]

How did I miss this thread?

I've been vegetarian for more than a year now, out of environmental and health reasons. I've been trying to cut out dairy and eggs, but that probably won't be possible until I move to Victoria in September. Cutting back on dairy has been pretty easy, as I'm becoming more lactose intollerant (thanks to my mom's genetics), and soy milk and ice-cream is freely available in the house. Any thoughts on a good source of vitamin B12? The only thing I know of that contains it naturally is beer, and the quantities one would need to get one's vitamins bring their own health problems. My favorite beer isn't vegan anyway.:bawling:

[B-Mental]

My favorite beer isn't vegan anyway.

What kind of beer is made from meat, ewww...

I was going to post a veggie recipe here, but someone decided that not posting a recipe meant you didn't know how to cook in the meat thread (what sound logic). That comment was followed by more sexist comments>>>>So I'll keep my recipe to myself.

I'm done posting in the meat/veggie/chocolate threads

[cuppajoe_9]

Guinness (the beer in question) is made using animal products in the filtering stages, but does not contain any meat by the time you drink it. Some other beers and wines use the same product (the name of which escapes my mind at the moment) and some clear liquors use a fish product as a clarifying agent.

[AimusSage]

Guinness (the beer in question) is made using animal products in the filtering stages, but does not contain any meat by the time you drink it. Some other beers and wines use the same product (the name of which escapes my mind at the moment) and some clear liquors use a fish product as a clarifying agent.
Really, I didn't know that. I guess it's all for the best, I like guinness, it's a really stout beer. ;)

[cuppajoe_9]

Guinness = awesome

[dramasnot6]

How did I miss this thread?

I've been vegetarian for more than a year now, out of environmental and health reasons. I've been trying to cut out dairy and eggs, but that probably won't be possible until I move to Victoria in September. Cutting back on dairy has been pretty easy, as I'm becoming more lactose intollerant (thanks to my mom's genetics), and soy milk and ice-cream is freely available in the house. Any thoughts on a good source of vitamin B12? The only thing I know of that contains it naturally is beer, and the quantities one would need to get one's vitamins bring their own health problems. My favorite beer isn't vegan anyway.:bawling:

B-12 is something all vegetarians/vegans should we wary of. I make sure to get more then adequate amounts by everyday eating lots of seaweed and soya products which are the best natural sources of B-12. B-12 supplements are also nifty things and there are many cereals fortified with extra b-12.

[Scheherazade]

In the light of recent complaints and misunderstandings'the Veggie Club' and 'Meat Eaters Club' threads have caused, those two threads now will be closed.

[Admin]

I realized Scher closed this thread, but I'm going to cheat and post in it.

I'm not trying to say one type of eating is better or worse, but you shouldn't take your health for granted and you should research all you can before making health decisions.

Most vegetarians supplement their protein with soy derivatives. Soy has a lot of problems with it. Remember too that Soy is a multi-billion dollar industry, so you'll have people funded by the industry defending it. Just do your research. For instance many infants fed soy formula end up with thyroid problems, my wife for one.

Chemicals in soy can cause cancer. They way it is sometimes processed (the cheap method used in almost all packaged foods) can add chemicals and destroy any nutrients or protein within it.

Additionally, you cannot get complete protein from any plant source alone. You at the very least need milk & egg protein, if not meat protein, or you will be deficient in some essential amino acids.

The thing is, the health industry doesn't always know what they are doing.

Way back in the 70's the threat of heart disease caused many to try to get saturated meat fats out of their diet, so they cut back on meat. This lowered their protein consumption and so they increased their carb consumption to battle it. What happened? People got extremely fat, and heart disease is worse than ever because of it. And now the industry reminds us we need good sources of lean protein in your diet every day and at every meal.

Human beings evolved eating meat, remember that.

Another good example of health advice gone awry is the case for fish. In the 80s and early 90s, still today sometimes, people were recommended to eat fish often as a good source a protein without a lot of fat. But people started getting sick.

The problem was that due to pollution you'd have fish with small amounts of mercury in their system and when eating that fish it'd end up in your system, potentially to lethal levels. Now we know that it is vitally important to avoid eating predatory fish very often, and pregnant woman should avoid all fish as much as possible.

Too, now there are new studies showing hormones showing up in fish. People are flushing their medicines down the toilet (either left over medicines, or medicine still in our urine) and that gets into the water and into the fish.

This same thing happens with meat of course, but it isn't by accident. Non-organic farmers have for years and years used hormones to boost the growth of their cattle. Getting a bunch of estrogen in your meat could certainly cause cancer in the long run.

So if you are a vegetarian for health reasons, you might want to consider just how health it really is. I can't say anything if you are a vegetarian for moral reasons, other than to maybe try organic free range eggs/milk and or kosher meats as more humane options. You need complete protein in your diet, and loading up on soy & pasta like so many vegetarians do isn't always healthy. Remember too, money makes the world go round. Soy is a billion dollar industry, beef is a billion dollar industry, fish is a billion dollar industry. You shouldn't expect any unbiased answers from any of those sources (or sources those places support).

Personally, for me, I want to live a long time. I try to avoid foods that there is any controversy over. Soy may or may not be bad for you. I avoid it (mostly). Hormone-fed beef may or may not be bad for you. I avoid it (mostly). But don't think I've ever seen anyone say organic chicken breasts are unhealthy, so that would seem to be a good choice.

http://www.healingcrow.com/soy/soy.html
http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/16/soy%20_protein%20_unhealthy.htm