Milady's awesome

[sundance]

I just barely finished reading three musketeers, and I would really like to point a few things out, even if no one reads this.
I find it ridiculous how anyone can consider Milady evil. In every crisis she was in she used her skills and powers of deception to get her out of bad situations. What's wrong with that? Also, when it comes right down to it, I don't blame Milady at all for killing Constance. I blame D'Artagnan. He was the one who got on Milady's bad side, and all because she didn't love him...let's back up, wasn't he supposed to be in love with Constance anyway. Why did he care that Milady didn't love him?!?!? In taking "revenge" on her, she felt like she needed to get her honor back. She did so by killing Constance. She wouldn't have even cared about Constance if D'Artagnan hadn't had sex with Milady just for revenge and then found out her deepest darkest secret.
The point is, Milady rocks and D'Artagnan sucks.

[AthosESK]

Yeah, she's pretty awesome. But I don't think she's a particularly NICE person, per se. Then again, that's what makes her so hot. But really, that poor Constance got completely shafted. She spends the entire book imprisoned and then gets killed for something her lover did. Short end of the stick, indeed. Slaughtering the innocent? Not hot. Milady's son tries to do better in the sequel ;).

[ElissaDido]

Haha... I sorta thought so too. I got annoyed with D'Artagnan after he got involved with Milady when he was supposed to be in love with Constance. But I guess that's how a man should behave at those times. o.O

Anyway, I pretty much agree with AThosESK. She's awesome (she's a genius!) but she tends to be quite selfish (remember poor Felton).

[closedbyrequest]

She was too manipulative for me. I will agree that she was very smart.

[Jims59]

Milady is deliberately very complex -- her beauty is extreme, as are her self seeking Machiavellian methods and 'ethics.' She is a strange combination of a Siren and a Medusa -- the ultimate seductress seeking to destroy anyone in her way.

D'Artagnan is young and lacks the needed personal 'character traits' later exemplified by Athos. His brief lack of moral character during this part of the Musketeer adventures is his stooping to her level of ethics to seek revenge against her -- creating a series of penalties that haunt him and seek revenge from him throughout the rest of the book and on into Twenty Years After.

Milady is not a wishy-washy character in looks or actions. I am sure I would be personally hard put to resist her beauty and manipulations if meeting her in person. If she had been less beautiful and less manipulative, then she would not be the powerful character needed for the role she plays. Remember, Richelieu was not overly sorry to be rid of her.

[kiki1982]

If I still may say something about this... It's rather overdue, but here goes...

What Jims59 says is true. She is a very diverse character and you get a lot of images of her vefore the end, but I think everything is revealed in those 5 chapters 'in captivity'. There she seduces Felton (using the protestant cliché), because of him escapes and makes him kill Buckingham, telling him a lie about what happened. I think those 5 chapters are the key to Milady, but furthermore the key to the whole book. In the beginning it is mentioned that she was Buckingham's mistress. Looking at that and what she wanted to do with d'Artagnan after he turned out to have plaid de Wardes in that night of passion, I start to believe that she seduced Richelieu (like she did with the first priest in the convent) and then made him think that the queen was not trustworthy. In doing so she kept Buckingham away and would be able to kill him without eyes set on him. I think Richelieu realises this at the moment d'Artagnan shows him the letter (he formerly wrote to Milady). Then he knows that d'Artagnan really saved the country, and that the queen was really right, if Milady would have continued playing on hostilities, England and France would have engaged in a destructive war, all because Milady had a feud with Buckingham.

The reason why d'Artagnan has a night of passion with her is to take revenge because she led him on because she wanted her brother-in-law killed, thus using him as a kind of 'weapon' like she used Felton to kill Buckingham. Then she was angry at d'Artagnan for not doing it and she threw him away like a piece of rubbish. D'Artagnan was in love with her once but was quickly sobered up when he heard from Ketty that she really loved de Wardes. It's really a childish and ungentlemanly thing to do, write letters in someone else's name and then pose as the person in question, but it goes together with his age and her conduct towards him...

[AthosESK]

Let's not romanticize this: the reason that d'Artagnan had his "night of passion" with Milady was because he wanted to have sex with her. Sure, he might have felt used and dirty. But mostly, he was horny. He was also 20ish and ...uh... acted rashly? Yeah, that sounds good.

[Sarasvati21]

Yeah, she's pretty awesome. But I don't think she's a particularly NICE person, per se. Then again, that's what makes her so hot. But really, that poor Constance got completely shafted. She spends the entire book imprisoned and then gets killed for something her lover did. Short end of the stick, indeed. Slaughtering the innocent? Not hot. Milady's son tries to do better in the sequel ;).

I don't know, it's been a while since I read the books, but Milady's son doesn't seem too bright the way he goes about things. Milady had a cloudy reputation in The Three Musketeers, but everyone who met her face to face was certain straight off that she was angelic, which is why she was amazing at being so deceitful. Her son, on the other hand, pretty much ruins himself by killing the executioner when he does (it was the executioner, right, that he killed with the poniard?). And I kind of had the impression throughout all the interactions with him that he just seemed shifty and uncomfortable, whereas Milady was perfectly comfortable in everything she did.
As I said, though, it has been a while since I read all of the books. I should read them again sometime...

[kiki1982]

Let's not romanticize this: the reason that d'Artagnan had his "night of passion" with Milady was because he wanted to have sex with her. Sure, he might have felt used and dirty. But mostly, he was horny. He was also 20ish and ...uh... acted rashly? Yeah, that sounds good.

I didn't romanticise this. He wrote those letters with a purpose, set up a correspondance through Ketty, who he seduced, with a purpose and actually made the 'Count de Wardes' write a letter in which he said he was comming that night. D'Artagnan went there and took leave and then dressed up as De Wardes... He didn't want to have anything to do with her anymore and so decided to hurt her purposely by posing as De Wardes, who she was really in love with. Admittedly, all the women and men have affairs in the book, but they all have a purpose: Constance has an affaire with d'Artagnan, because he needs to go to England for her and save the queen's honour. The queen has an affair with the ambassador of England, a very common thing under queens to do so, to secure the support of another country, or to avoid wars, as Catherine the Great of Russia did in the 18th century. Porthos had an affair with Mme Goguenard, who provided him with all kinds of things he didn't have money for, very common under musketiers, who got paid a really low wage and needed mistress for their upkeep. Mme de Chevreuse had an affair with Aramis so to have a safe house where the correspondence between the queen and Buckingham culd be exchanged. D'Artagnan had an affair with Ketty because he needed her to smuggle the secret correspondence of 'De Wardes' to her mistress and also so she wouldn't tell on him. Athos didn't have an affair because he was done with women, although he has one later with De Chevreuse which Aramis is not allowed to know.
To reduce affairs to having sex is a very narrow view. Affairs had much more to with politics than with sex in general, certainly as it was very dangerous for women to offer their body as they could become pregnant without any 'reason' at all concerning their husband. There were no very effective contraceptifs yet, like condoms and the pill. Not even the cycle of a woman had been determined.
If d'Artagnan was merely horny he could have just grabbed a woman of the streets, no problem. His 'night of passion' with Milady had a purpose...

[Madame la Fere]

While I agree that Milady is smart and manipulative, I do not think that she went about things in the best possible manner... if someone got in her way, or even just got on her nerves then she killed them. I think that kiki1982 makes a very good point in showing how all of the affairs in the book had a purpose.

[Dark Muse]

Though all through the book I had been rooting for Milady to get what she deserved and wanted her to be caught, and was so mad when she escaped De Winter, that last scene when they finally execute her was quite tragic. Indeed she is a clever manipulate for I find myself momentarily feeling sorry for her. But in the end I still think she deserved her fate and was glad none of the Musketeers backed down and gave her mercy.

I was annoyed with d'Artagnan for being a bit unfaithful to Constance, even if he did so as part of a plot, and yet he says that he was starting to fall genuinely in love with her.

She was indeed a very interesting character no matter how you felt about her.

[Wilde woman]

I concur. I've always thought Milady was a fascinating character, arguably the prototype for the modern femme fatale.

It's been a long time since I read the book. Does Dumas give any background on her? Do we know what her childhood was like?

If not, I've always thought she's make a good candidate for revisionist literature, like Bertha Rochester was completely reinterpreted in Wide Sargasso Sea.

[Dark Muse]

The only thing we know about her is that when she was a young woman she was a nun who seduced a priest and manipulated him into stealing from the chruch and ran away with him than dumped him when she met Anthos who was a Count at that time. But we do not really know anything about her family growing up.

[kiki1982]

I think I might start to feel sorry for her now, after about one year of contemplation on the subject...

But even among the musketeers and Athos and d'Artagnan in particular there were different opinions... So we shouldn't feel guilty if we don't feel for her. There are Athoses amongst us and d'Artagnans.

[Dark Muse]

I felt sorry for her, but I still think she got just what she deserved in the end. I thought the scene with Constance was just horrible. I could not believe it when they got there a moment too late to save her life.

So I thought it was a cool scence when she was finally cornored by a group of people she chould not escape from or manipulate.

[kiki1982]

Yes, that was sad... After they managed to get Constance out of the way, there the nasty woman is... I found that so touching. Particularly Athos who took d'Artagnan in his arms.

I think that double feeling towards Milady deserving it and feeling sorry for her was intended by Dumas. He used it later very intelligently.

[Dark Muse]

Yes I loved the scene between Anthos and d'Artagnan. Anthos was my favorite of the Musketeers.

[kiki1982]

Athos is truly a lovely character, one of the loveliest ever. Or close.

I can't choose between Porthos and Athos because both are so tremendously lovely, in their own ways.

[Dark Muse]

haha Porthos was my least favortie. I did not dislike him, but I was drawn more tword the others.

[kiki1982]

Maybe my opinion is a little influenced by what happens after.

Initially, though, Porthos was my absolute favourite! Besde d'Artagnan of course. I found his naivety always so engaging and cute. If not funny. But he has got a really engagng and most true side that is not too much developed in The Three Musketeers yet.

I liked Aramis the least, but still tolerated him because he was smart and of use. However, I have now developed a true dislike.

D'Artagnan though, is my absolute favourite. But I think he incorporates all qualities of all three 'inseperable' friends and thus becomes the true quitessensiel musketeer. I love those moments when they all listen to this young boy of 19, including Athos who has loads of experience, 'because he is smart and he has a plan'. I love it when Athos tells him the story, it is so touching... And the battle at La Rochelle where they will have a quiet dinner :D. It turns out legendary in the end.

'Mr d'Artagnan?'
'Yes, you know he was the one who kept a platoon out of La Rochelle by himself.'
'Him? Is that not a little exaggerated?'
'No, no, it is true.' (Of course it was exaggerated, but even in the book d'Artagnan grows into a myth. No wonder that the character d'Artagnan also grew into a myth in general so that everyone knows him, but can't really distinguish whether he was actually real or not...)

[Dark Muse]

I always loved d'Artagnan the best in the movies, and so I was really looking forward to him in the book, but when I started reading, well I could not help but to fall in love with Anthos. Though d'Artagnan was my 2nd favorite. I enjoyed Aramis I thought it was an amusing.

[AthosESK]

Yes, you can sort of, almost justify everything Milady has done up until that point, at the very least as an act of self-preservation. But when she kills Constance, all bets are off.

To address the earlier question of her background, when Dumas rewrote the musketeers for the stage ("The Youth of the Musketeers") he added a prologue that takes place during the time when Milady is being courted by Athos, who is the Vicomte de la Fere at the time. It doesn't really illuminate the character that much more, but it's pretty entertaining none the less. You can find the french transcript if you Google "La Jeunesse des Mousquetaires".

[Dark Muse]

I do not think it was self-preservation when she killed De Winter's brother, her second husband. It seemed that he truly loved her and put his wealth at her disposal but she killed him out of her pure greed of wanting the money all to herself.

[kiki1982]

@ AthosESK: Wow! I'll have a look at that tomorrow! As it is a good source it will be interesting to read.

About Milady: It is kind of puzzling why she is there and how she comes there. But as soon as you get that chapter where she manipulates Richelieu in giving her a free passage (which allows her essentialy to do anything she likes) and you get the whole story off the hangman (brother of the original priest she seduced who posed as her brother when Athos was courting her) you really grow cold...

[AthosESK]

>>I do not think it was self-preservation when she killed De Winter's brother, her second husband.

True. But, perhaps you can use poetic license to imagine what happened between the two of them, since his death takes place "off stage/off screen" as it were :). It's just that the killing of Constance is the first time you actually SEE her killing someone. All other evidence is... circumstantial ;)

Hey, Kiki! I see you still don't like Aramis after all this time, huh? This saddens me. Talk to you later!

[fulyaoktem]

I think that double feeling towards Milady deserving it and feeling sorry for her was intended by Dumas. He used it later very intelligently.

That's the point... Good determination... Those double feelings helped him to create Mordaunt after twenty years. Another hell creature on earth!

[fulyaoktem]

About Milady: .........and you get the whole story off the hangman (brother of the original priest she seduced who posed as her brother when Athos was courting her) you really grow cold...

I would never forgive her...:flare: