So you've finished War and Peace

[fayefaye]

War, what is it good for?
'War, huh! yeah! What is it good for? Absolutely nothin! sing it again yeah!'

This is a thread where me, koa and piquant-and anyone else who wants to, can rip apart War and Peace and criticize the hell out of it. :p ok, I'll get the ball rolling. I think that Tolstoy actualy had a lot of interesting things to say-the second epilogue had a lot of food for thought-but the way he writes is so grandiloquent it's virtually impossible to see it for what it's worth.

the analogies. THE ANALOGIES. They started out ok, some are apt, but honestly. 'like a cornered beast' 'with the growth of a mathematical progression' 'like a monkey who's hand is caught in a jar, and he just won't let go....' [lol-that really reminded me of a Simpsons episode, where Homer gets stuck in a vending machine] 'like when you're looking at a train and trying to work out how it works'

By the end, they became so abstract, I could only laugh.

[Dick Diver]

But it is a historical novel - there is a certain raison d'etre which does not apply to other novels.

I didn't really notice the analogies but with translated novels, I tend to view the language as almost second-hand. Even with poetic writers like Calvino and Borges, there is always the problem of refraction through the translator.

I did love War And Peace although I thought that the ending was a bit weak.

[Robert E Lee]

Originally posted by fayefaye
War, what is it good for?
'War, huh! yeah! What is it good for? Absolutely nothin! sing it again yeah!'

This is a thread where me, koa and piquant-and anyone else who wants to, can rip apart War and Peace and criticize the hell out of it. :p ok, I'll get the ball rolling. I think that Tolstoy actualy had a lot of interesting things to say-the second epilogue had a lot of food for thought-but the way he writes is so grandiloquent it's virtually impossible to see it for what it's worth.

the analogies. THE ANALOGIES. They started out ok, some are apt, but honestly. 'like a cornered beast' 'with the growth of a mathematical progression' 'like a monkey who's hand is caught in a jar, and he just won't let go....' [lol-that really reminded me of a Simpsons episode, where Homer gets stuck in a vending machine] 'like when you're looking at a train and trying to work out how it works'

By the end, they became so abstract, I could only laugh.

I've also read War and Peace. The book is literary perfection, whether you like it or not. There's more to it than an anti-war message. I wouldn't even label it as anti-war in the first place. The last 50 pages were quite easy to get through and quite straightforward and accessible.

War and Peace: Greatest Russian novel ever.
Anna Karenina: Now THIS sucks.

[fayefaye]

I actually want to read Anna Karenina, and I don't know why.

The War What is it Good For? was a reference to a Seinfeld joke. The song was just something I felt like putting up.

[azmuse]

I enjoyed AK a lot...felt like I'd eaten a wonderful dinner afterward - total satisfaction.

[Robert E Lee]

Originally posted by fayefaye
I actually want to read Anna Karenina, and I don't know why.

The War What is it Good For? was a reference to a Seinfeld joke. The song was just something I felt like putting up.

Seinfeld sucks. Just not funny. Humor for tightwads.

[IWilKikU]

E. Lee, usually I take your bad taste with a grain of salt: not liking LotR films, your culturally offensive screename, loving War & Peace, but when you start knocking Seinfeld, I can't just sit by and let you anymore!!!

[Robert E Lee]

Originally posted by IWilKikU
E. Lee, usually I take your bad taste with a grain of salt: not liking LotR films, your culturally offensive screename, loving War & Peace, but when you start knocking Seinfeld, I can't just sit by and let you anymore!!!

How the hell is my screen name culturally offensive? You have a problem with the South?

[azmuse]

may I remind you that the south owned slaves? yes i know the north's role in it financially. but, i can tell you, culturally, the south in antebellum america is not a place in time to laud. and yes, i'm black. and yes, i enjoy being free.

[azmuse]

Lee, btw, the man was the #1 ranking confederate general.

pardon, Kik - go ahead.

[Koa]

*coughs and enters the discussion*

Firstly, if we're discussing W&P, can we leave out Anna Karenina, unless it's relevant for the discussion? The 'AK sucks, W&P is great' or viceversa thing doesnt take very far.

OK well...I had noted the topics I wanted to rant about but I'm too lazy to go and pick up the paper where I had written them...:D

Well, let's say that Tolstoy liked to make his point clear...half of the book basically repeats the same concept, adding a small bit to it after having rephrased all the previous stuff for 3 pages... I found it funny that whoever wrote the comment on my edition of the book admits that those parts can be almost unreadable to nowadays readers... (usually comments tend to find a deeeeeep value even in the most useless word of a book...)

Secondly, the plot. A mere soap opera. At times I felt like Tolsoty was making fun of me. I want to think he made it on purpose....come on, why the hell should Andrey end up exactly at the Rostov's house??? Why should he find exactly Anatole when they're wounded??? Come oooooon!
The characters...damn, I hated most of them. Natasha is a little slut (even if the part of the book whith her with Anatole was the one I read with the most interest), Maria is said to be very ugly but she suddenly becomes sort of beautiful when Nikolai sees her... Even though she's one of the best characters. Sonia remains totally undeveloped... Pierre is of course the real hero. But the really best character is that guy Pierre makes frind when he's a prisoner of the French...damn I can't remember the name and I'm not going to pick the bok up...Konstantin P...something, maybe? Wow, 4 months to read it, 20 days to forget it. I hate how memory works.

[Dr Cynic]

Originally posted by Robert E Lee
... War and Peace... is literary perfection.....
War and Peace: Greatest Russian novel ever.
Anna Karenina: Now THIS sucks.

Are you having a laugh, mate?:D :D Seems you've had one too many:cool:

War and Peace greatest Russian novel...Oh my arse:p :p :p

[Robert E Lee]

Originally posted by azmuse
may I remind you that the south owned slaves? yes i know the north's role in it financially. but, i can tell you, culturally, the south in antebellum america is not a place in time to laud. and yes, i'm black. and yes, i enjoy being free.

I'm proud of my culture and proud of Southern military leaders like Robert E Lee. If you have a problem with my race or my heritage, then too bad.

[azmuse]

Well, Lee, hm. Not only am i black but i am white and native american. I don't have a problem with YOUR race as you put it defensively, but with the suitability of owning other souls.

As to your personal attitudes, suit yourself.

End of story.

[Robert E Lee]

Originally posted by azmuse
Well, Lee, hm. Not only am i black but i am white and native american. I don't have a problem with YOUR race as you put it defensively, but with the suitability of owning other souls.

As to your personal attitudes, suit yourself.

End of story.

The war wasn't about slavery, and I never said anything about owning blacks.

[fayefaye]

SO war and peace....

[fayefaye]

'It is necessary to renounce a freedom that does not exist and admit a dependance of which we are not aware' what a pompous ***.