Eragon vs Harry Potter

[DHarley]

i want to know if people think eragon or harry potter is a better book and back up your opinions with good facts.

[ben lurie]

I think that the too books, although similar in genre are very different. The writing styles differ in many ways, though the stories have obvious similariites in that they are both fantasy books featuring young characters confronting a more powerful nasty bad *** evil.
Harry Potter is written by a much more experienced author with a more mature writing style. The emotion conveyed through the writing is very powerful. I get really wrapped up in whats going on and dont want to put the book down. However in the later books they get very depressing, which ruins the whole effect. For example in the 5th book, it was just harry being pissed off the whole time. Although a something bad has to happen in order to set up the conflict, you cant let your story get bogged down. The entertainment factor goes way down.
Eragon: In terms of pure entertainment, Eragon is probably a winner. The first book especially is full of action and generallly, is a happy story. It is noticable however that the author is not quite as experienced, probably because he was 15.....Writing techniques that really give a book depth and emotion are sometimes lost and i didnt find myself caring at the points of peak. The action though was great! It wasnt a book to leave kyou bored and ery dynamic in structure. There are the obvious parallells to other plots, particularly Lord of the Rings and Star Wars. It has less originality as H.P. The second book drags on a little bit, and gets depressing. Again, its the whole struggle between light and dark, the stuff where eragon drains the life out of everything around him.... and then Galabatrix messing with the dark magic that ur not supposed to use because its dangerous and evil, i dont remember exactly but its something along those lines....Eragon sticks to the the light, murtagh gets evil, in the end he will get all sad and not kill his brother, turn on galabatrix, give himself up to the light and DIE. all that said, its still a great book, and i bet the books will get better as Paolini becomes a better author.

[Silv]

I don't think either of the two are that fantastically written in terms of style. If I were forced to choose between the two though, I would probably go with Potter.

Harry Potter has an edge over Eragon in that its plotline is more developed and more mysterious (for lack of a better word). Eragon's plot can be guesstimated and is much more simplistic. We all know that somehow or other there's going to be another dragon hatching, and eventually all the people of the Varden will gather to defeat Galbatorix.

In terms of character development, Harry Potter still stands above Eragon - you know the distinct personalities of Ron and his entire family, of Harry and his relatives (Uncle Vernon & co.), and you know the headmasters and their attitudes. Comparing the vast amount of knowledge you know about the personalities of Potter characters with what little Paolini offers of key characters such as Arya, you'll realize that you simply don't see the characters with as much "depth" in Eragon.

Content-wise, Eragon also falls short. Huge chunks of Eragon's brother, Roran, is a feature that bores readers (in the second book of the trilogy). Placed next to the adventures that Eragon is facing, the sudden switch in main characters and scenes (from excitement to boring sea voyage) is clumsy and adds a hint of annoyance to the reading. Furthermore, all this time it builds tension and an increased expectancy for Roran to have a major significance or role in the story - but what happens when he finally meets up with Eragon? Not much.

[Niamh]

Yeah but you have also got to take into consideration that Christopher Poalini the Author of Eragon was only about 17 when he wrote the book and J.K. spent many years tweeking an improving the because she had the time to as apposed to having school work to deal with as well. shes also much older and maturer and it shows in her work. but both books are enjoyable easy reads. Now if the question was 'Which is better, Harry Potter or Artimes Fowl?' It would be fowl. Much more imaginative and it has a quirky sense of humour. :p

[Silv]

True, but I didn't take into account his age because often times you don't judge how a person writes based on their age. :P

[Conn]

i really think that both are eaqually good reads but eragon was just easier for me to get into in the first chapter. Although Harry Potter has longer books allowing more detail plus reading time, takes a little longer to get into but still more detailed.




P.S. Props on starting a good thread david

[English Major]

Content-wise, Eragon also falls short. Huge chunks of Eragon's brother, Roran, is a feature that bores readers (in the second book of the trilogy). Placed next to the adventures that Eragon is facing, the sudden switch in main characters and scenes (from excitement to boring sea voyage) is clumsy and adds a hint of annoyance to the reading. Furthermore, all this time it builds tension and an increased expectancy for Roran to have a major significance or role in the story - but what happens when he finally meets up with Eragon? Not much.

I found Roran's section in the second book much more entertaining than Eragon's. Eragon spent much of the book training, while Roran was experiencing action. As for which book I would pick, it would be Harry Potter hands down.

[ben lurie]

gotta go with Fowl. very quirky indeed. However The Supernatural, which was also written by the Fowl guy was ****. boring, meandering, weird and just didnt have the awesome styule that Fowl did. off the topic but sitll

[ben lurie]

I agree totally with what Silv says, but I think you are being a little harsh on Eragon. Although it may be overshadowed by Harry Potter in some ways, it IS a great read. Look at the potential that someone like Paolini has! if you were to compare Rowlings books at 15...you sure as hell wouldnt find anything as good as Eragon! The latter eragon book and anything else Paolini writes is sure to get better as he matures and learns more.

[Silv]

True true, his books will get better with time. I agree that he is quite talented to be able to write a trilogy starting from such a young age. Harry Potter is better right now, but Paolini does have the potential to write even better books. :)

[Shannanigan]

I'll admit I only read two of the HP books (the first and the third), and while they were entertaining for the time, I never got into them because I guess they were just too...I don't want to say childish...but I just felt that at 16 I was too old for the books. When I read Paolini's Eragon two or three years later, I definitely didn't have that feeling and got addicted...I anxiously awaited and read Eldest and can't wait to read the third book.

I guess my attchments aren't a good measure of each authors' skill in writing, but I do think that Paolini managed to appeal to a wider audience despite his young age while writing...

[DHarley]

Personaly i think Eragon and Eldest are better books because there was more to them. In the second book there were three different stories going on at once, and there was alot of charactor developement with Roran leading the town into war and Eragon turning into an elf.

[Hannahpanda]

well it kind of depends on what harry potter your talking about because I could get into certain ones more than others

[Admin]

Eragon is grossly derivative.

[ben lurie]

oooooohhh and administrator...1700 posts....niiiiceeee

[miles]

I agree with hannah because all the Harry Potter books have their strengths and weaknesses.

[Conn]

yah i cant see a true winner between both books if you compare it all, the authors for example have completely diffent writing styles along with a huge age difference which might mean different writing habits. Even though the books are on similar topics they still differ greatly its hard to pick one side or the other with all the varibles inbetween

[miles]

yeah, it is hard to compare two different authors with different writing styles, who's books also vary in content

[DHarley]

Yah it is hard to compare so many books to each other because they all are different and some HP books are better then others but a real comparison would be the 7th HP and the 3rd Eragon.

[Conn]

lol you guys are pretty much saying the same thing in different words so we pretty much agree on that

[EAP]

Paolini has never had a original thought in his head. His writing lacks the humor and charm that make Rowling's work so entertaining; at best he writes glorified fan-fiction.

[ben lurie]

oooo harsh words EAP....

[Conn]

I acctualy like his sense of differing novels it has some nice and well thought out opinions

[LPRox015]

I like both books very much. But I will have to say I am more into HP. Then again for Paolini being such a young writer I have to give him props. But honestly I liked the HP books a bit more than Eragon and Eldest. But BOTH are very good reads!

[Shea]

I am currently reading Eragon and it's hard for me to give assess appropriately after having taught lower level English classes for a semester. As I read, the fact keeps tugging at me; he was the same age as my students when he wrote this! Why can't I have had a student like that! That's probably why I'm enjoying it so much.

EAP, Rowlings writings are not very original either when you come to it. There's borrowed stuff all over the place. Paolini does this too. It's they way that they put it all together that make great stories.

[LauraJayne]

Wow :D

I recently finished Eragon, halfway through Eldest now, and I most say, I love Paolini's style. He's awesome :]

I have always liked the Harry Potter books, having read them well over 20 times each (Yes.. I'm THAT sad... I love to read the same book over and over and over.... :D)

However, they kind of get a bit repetitive after a while; You always know that someone is going to die, that the book will generally always begin with Harrys birthday and all ends well. (Okay.. I've been a bit general but my mind doesn't serve me well at this time :D)

However, Eragon has proved to be brilliantly written, full of action and drama. I truly loved reading it, and felt that Paolini's writing was fantastically advanced for his age. I'm 18 and there is not a chance in life that I could even attempt something so advanced even now, never mind three years ago (hen again... I'm not a writer :D)

Overall, I'd have to say Eragon, mainly because I think the plot line was great :) I also like fantasy works as a whole, and actually lved the similarities that Eragon had with other works, such as Lord of The Rings etc

[EAP]

EAP, Rowlings writings are not very original either when you come to it. There's borrowed stuff all over the place. Paolini does this too. It's they way that they put it all together that make great stories.


Give me examples of borrowed stuff from Rowlings' novels please. There's a difference between inspiration and straight out copying. Tolkien was inspired by Kalevala and the Edda's, resulting in the creation of middle-earth. Rowlings' was not the first to combine magic and modern world (scores of urban fantasy writers going back to antiquity), neither is she the first to postulate the idea of a wizarding school (Diane Duane among others had already been there), what she did was create her own unique variation on the theme, with concepts and twists never seen before written in a style which is easy, accessible, mature and humourous.

Anyone who has ever read more than a couple of epic fantasies + Star Wars + Tolkien can see where Paolini's story comes from. His characters are flatter than a pancake, his plotting is cringeworthy, his dialogue would make the writer of Eye of Argon wince, the less said about 'prose' the better; he's about as skilled a wordsmith as Gregor Clegane.

If Eragon is the staple of excellence in the modern world than 99.9 percent of published novels are Holy Books.

If you think Eragon is written brilliantly than there isn't much I can discuss with you - expect perhaps suggesting that you read Lord of the Rings, A Song of Ice and Fire and Dune to see what real brilliance in speculative fiction is. (not to mention understand the derivativeness of Paolini's story)

[Shea]

Woah, calm down! I think my idea of borrowed stuff and yours maybe a bit different. I was thinking of Harry Potter as the same theme as Oliver Twist; orphaned boy in terrible surroundings turning out to have a grand history that pulls him from that atmosphere (yes, I understand that Oliver is a terribly flat character compared to Harry); or all the mythology and history she incorporates into her story.

I've read Lord of the Rings. I happen to be an adamant Tolkien fan. I definately not saying that Paolini is on par with Tolkien. I'm currently only 80 pages into Eragon, so I haven't been able to accurately assess his writing. All I'm saying is that so far he presents a good story, I'm enjoying it, that's that. Maybe I can take up this arguement with you when I've finished the book. Right now, I'm thinking about what Paolini may turn out when he gets to be the age Tolkien was when he published LOTR. I'm looking forward to it.

[EAP]

Woah, calm down! I think my idea of borrowed stuff and yours maybe a bit different. I was thinking of Harry Potter as the same theme as Oliver Twist; orphaned boy in terrible surroundings turning out to have a grand history that pulls him from that atmosphere (yes, I understand that Oliver is a terribly flat character compared to Harry); or all the mythology and history she incorporates into her story.

Thematic similiarity (questionable in this particular case anyway, since the only thing Oliver and Harry have in common is orphanhood) and mythological influences (not many in Rowlings' case, most of it is just clever word play) do not count as borrowing.

[Shea]

Okay, here we go (with the help of sparknotes and my own hunting).

Harry's scar - borrowed from the Odessy; resembles a badge of honor

Minerva - Roman Goddess of wisdom for McGonagoll; I saw her statue in the Shambles in York. She was next to a pile of books, as her character represents book study and knowlegde. (That's why she contrasts with Trelawney)

The Tempest- Other than Oliver Twist (have you ever read it? They share more than orphanhood) I saw an interesting theme parallel in this play. When Prospero leaves his island he leaves his

not done hang on,

[Shea]

Anyway, Prospero leaves his magic powers there when he leaves just as the Hogwarts student must leave their magic at the school, not being allowed to use it outside.

The first years crossing the lake by boat- isn't this some kind of rights of passage river styx thing?

Then of course you have the creatures like the pheonix or the unicorns or the centaurs. Note how the centaurs notice that Mars is bright that night in the forrest in the first book. Mars being the god of war.

I don't have time to keep going at the moment.

[Shea]

What would you consider as "borrowed", EAP?

[EAP]

Harry's scar - borrowed from the Odessy; resembles a badge of honor

Harry's scar resembles a 'lightening bolt', not a badge of honour. It is never alluded in that capacity in the books either.


Minerva - Roman Goddess of wisdom for McGonagoll; I saw her statue in the Shambles in York. She was next to a pile of books, as her character represents book study and knowlegde. (That's why she contrasts with Trelawney)

Eh. Minerva is a name. If somebody uses Jack or Will or Athena or David in their works, does it mean they have borrowed those names from dozens of authors that have used them in their works in the past, who in turn 'borrowed' the name from countless other authors.... I think you can guess where this type of reasoning leads us to.



Anyway, Prospero leaves his magic powers there when he leaves just as the Hogwarts student must leave their magic at the school, not being allowed to use it outside.

The students do not 'leave' their magic at the school. They just aren't allowed to perform magic 'officially' because they are underage. Comparing this to Prospero is worse than grasping at straws.


The first years crossing the lake by boat- isn't this some kind of rights of passage river styx thing?

I suppose you could make an arguement for the right of passage element, with the students having left their homes and childhoods behind to begin their studies etc. but the circumstances in which they do so are completely different from the 'river styx thingy'; the context just doesn't match.


Then of course you have the creatures like the pheonix or the unicorns or the centaurs. Note how the centaurs notice that Mars is bright that night in the forrest in the first book. Mars being the god of war.

Unicorns and Centuars and Pheonixes are fantasy creatures. They are also present in a thousand other fantasy novels. What does Mars being the god of war in the greco-roman mythology got to do with Rowlings' 'borrowing' stuff? How is this relevent at all?


What would you consider as "borrowed", EAP?

Extremely similiar storylines. Characters, objects, societies, dialogue
or world-building which, with a little bit of tinkering can pass off as another, already published work.

Here's a little example*:-

Dialogue,

- Lucas (original):
"Search your feelings, you know it to be true." - Darth Vader

- Paolini (plagiarism):
"Look inside yourself, you know it to be true." - Murtagh


Names:

Tolkien's: Paolini's:

Isengard Isenstar
Mithril Mithrim
Angrenost Angrenost
Morgoth Morgothal
Elessar Elessari
Fornost Furnost
Harad Desert Hadarac Desert
Melian Melian
Valinor Vanilor
Eriador Eridor
Imladris Imiladris



Furthermore, there's a major difference between borrowing from myths - which have become woven into the fabric of our cultures over the centuries - and borrowing from contemporary works; the later often hovers extremely close to plagiarism.

* - (I found that through a short search on the web, there are several sites dedicated to pointing out the 'similarities' betwen Paolini's and his superior's works)

[kilted exile]

I seem to remember some court case against ROwling to do with plagiarism after she wrote the first Potter novel - Does anyone remember this/able to provide details as to what the case centred on?

[Shea]

Harry's scar resembles a 'lightening bolt', not a badge of honour. It is never alluded in that capacity in the books either.

From Sparknotes: "Like the famous scar of Odysseus in Homer’s epic poem the Odyssey, Harry’s forehead lightning bolt is a badge of honor, an emblem of having survived a great battle and of being destined to wage still more battles in the future."


Eh. Minerva is a name. If somebody uses Jack or Will or Athena or David in their works, does it mean they have borrowed those names from dozens of authors that have used them in their works in the past, who in turn 'borrowed' the name from countless other authors.... I think you can guess where this type of reasoning leads us to.


Rowling chooses names specifically for characters either because of the meanings in the words for example again from Sparknotes:
"The Latin word draco means “dragon,” and the French words mal and foi mean “bad faith.” We sometimes suspect that Draco Malfoy may indeed be a “bad faith dragon,” a monster of ill will. "

Professor McGonogal incidentally, "Rowling named her after a notoriously bad nineteenth-century Scottish poet named William McGonagall who was nevertheless highly confident of his own talents."

She also got Nicholas Flammel and his wife from actual historic figures.


The students do not 'leave' their magic at the school. They just aren't allowed to perform magic 'officially' because they are underage. Comparing this to Prospero is worse than grasping at straws.


Whatever.



Unicorns and Centuars and Pheonixes are fantasy creatures. They are also present in a thousand other fantasy novels. What does Mars being the god of war in the greco-roman mythology got to do with Rowlings' 'borrowing' stuff? How is this relevent at all?


Yeah, they're used in thousands of other works. That doesn't mean their not borrowed. My point is as I said before, it's the way she strings it together that makes it great. Mars represents the battle Harry is getting ready to face.

As for Paolini, again, I haven't gotten far enough to judge it. What you say may be true. Fine. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy his story.

[Shea]

I seem to remember some court case against ROwling to do with plagiarism after she wrote the first Potter novel - Does anyone remember this/able to provide details as to what the case centred on?

This is from Wikipedia

In 1999 N.K. Stouffer quietly began to allege copyright and trademark infringement by J.K. Rowling of her 1984 works The Legend of Rah and the Muggles and Larry Potter and His Best Friend Lilly.[30]

The primary basis for Stouffer's claims lie in her own invention of Muggles, non-magical elongated humanoids of sorts and the title character of the second work, Larry Potter, a bespectacled boy with dark, albeit wavy hair (Rowling's Potter is characterised as having all of those, though with unruly instead of wavy hair). Stouffer contended (and still does to this day) that it is not just these examples and similar names but that it is "the cumulative effect of all of it combined" with the other comparisons she lists on her real muggles website.[31]

Rowling, along with Scholastic Press (her American publisher) and Warner Brothers (holders of the series' film rights), pre-empted Stouffer with a suit of their own seeking a declaratory judgment that they had not infringed on any of Stouffer's works. Rowling, through the use of expert witnesses who brought into question the authenticity of Stouffer's evidence, won the case with Stouffer's claims being dismissed with prejudice and Stouffer herself being fined $50,000 for her "pattern of intentional bad faith conduct" in relation to her employment of fraudulent submissions, along with being ordered to pay a portion of the plaintiffs' legal fees.[32] Stouffer is currently appealing the ruling. [33]

[EAP]

From Sparknotes: "Like the famous scar of Odysseus in Homer’s epic poem the Odyssey, Harry’s forehead lightning bolt is a badge of honor, an emblem of having survived a great battle and of being destined to wage still more battles in the future."

First of all, that's Sparknotes' subjective interpretation. Harry's scar is in no way a badge of honour, unless the death of your own mother is considered honourable. Harry didn't survive a great 'battle', there was no battle - his parents were killed without too much fanfare.


Rowling chooses names specifically for characters either because of the meanings in the words for example again from Sparknotes:
"The Latin word draco means “dragon,” and the French words mal and foi mean “bad faith.” We sometimes suspect that Draco Malfoy may indeed be a “bad faith dragon,” a monster of ill will. "

In this case the name 'Draco' is internally consistent - the family Malfoy is aristocratic and racist to a fault, Slytherins feel a natural affinity towards dragons which are usually associated with visions of gradeur and splendour, hence it isn't inconcievable at all that a Malfoy father would name their first born child Draco.

The name Draco has a root in mythology and history, it isn't a random borrowing like 'Arya' or a hideous distortion like Mithrim or Vanilor. Not to mention flat out copying like Melian and Angernost. (both of which are Tolkien's creations)


Professor McGonogal incidentally, "Rowling named her after a notoriously bad nineteenth-century Scottish poet named William McGonagall who was nevertheless highly confident of his own talents."

She also got Nicholas Flammel and his wife from actual historic figures.

While the McGonagall in the books is a highly competent tutor who never shows off, and doesn't think too much of show-off's either. Can't see the relevent of the quoted passage.

There are quite a few authors who write whole stories about historical figures; the genre is called historical fiction. Again, what's your point?


My point is as I said before, it's the way she strings it together that makes it great.
Obviously. If that's the extent of your point then you'll hear no arguements from me but obviously there's more.


Yeah, they're used in thousands of other works. That doesn't mean their not borrowed.

Very well, have it your way. Rowlings and thousands of other authors borrow, Paolini steals and plaigarises.

[Matilda]

I have only read the beginning of Eragon, so I can't say much about the plot. The reason I didn't continue reading, however, was that I couldn't stand the language and style of writing. At least in the swedish translation, it seemed so flat, almost like a parody of some fantasy book.
Harry Potter, on the other hand, I think has a great language, really unique and innovative.

[Niamh]

I seem to remember some court case against ROwling to do with plagiarism after she wrote the first Potter novel - Does anyone remember this/able to provide details as to what the case centred on?

It had to do with some russian writing a spoof book about Harry potter. I think you can still get it. it's Barry Trotter and The Philosophers Scone.

She didnt like it that someone was messing around with her book. besides you can get The Soddit and Bord of the Rings aswell. They're all under alias'.

[Shea]

I give up EAP. I just want to enjoy the story.

[Odysseus93]

I'd like to say a few things. First, EAP, I agree with you that the Eragon books start out being quite predictable and similar to other book and movies: e.g Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, etc. However, as the series progresses Paolini diverges from other books to a very great degree. I found that the first book was very predictable, the second less so, and in the third I had virtually no idea what was going on.

[spiponrup]

ya it will be great if they both get active on this forum...and share their exp. with gaming...

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[Alexandra S.]

I believe that J.K.Rowling is a master in writing,just that. Only the fact that her writing amuses me so much and keeps me thrilled and stuck in each of her books it is just enough for me to prefer it from Eragon.I think she's way too far!