Goldstein

[cheerloud1090]

:confused: Who is goldstein? Does he even exist? Please help me I am so confused!!:confused:



:yawnb: :) :cool:

[seattlegrace90]

OK WOW have you even picked up the book? I can see that you haven't. Oh well I'll answer your question anyway. Goldstein is the Leader of the Brotherhood( which I hope you know what that is) , and O'Brien told Winston and Julia that he does in fact exist, along with the Brotherhood. Remember Goldstein was a Party member, but then he became a traitor and went against Big Brother. How about next time you READ the book!!! :flare: :brickwall

[Mystic]

I personally do not think that Goldstein existed. Nor the Brotherhood, and while the book exists, it was written by the party.

Why? Well, all of those things are used as bait to weed out the people who are capable of committing crimethink. Yes, that's right, those capable of being capable of committing crime against the party. Naturally, the party doesn't want these kind of people to exist, so they find them and get rid of them one way or another.

[King of Frogs]

To be honest, it doesn't really matter if Goldstein exists or not, it merely matters that the party uses his perceived existance in order to root out thoughtcriminals.

[tjp]

This is one of the most easiest books to READ. Everything is right in front of you if you actually take the time to READ the book and pay attention to what you are readinig. Actually you can get almost all the information you need from the first part of the book. :alien:

[crisaor]

OK WOW have you even picked up the book? I can see that you haven't. Oh well I'll answer your question anyway. Goldstein is the Leader of the Brotherhood( which I hope you know what that is) , and O'Brien told Winston and Julia that he does in fact exist, along with the Brotherhood. Remember Goldstein was a Party member, but then he became a traitor and went against Big Brother. How about next time you READ the book!!! :flare: :brickwall
Actually, that's incorrect. That's what is first told at the beginning, during the two minutes of hate, about Goldstein being the enemy of the people, and so on. And then in the part you mention about O'brien telling them that Goldstein existed, but that was just him pretending to pose for the rebellion in order to test them. That's when he makes them admit that they're willing to kill and hurt innocents, throw sulphuric acid into a child's face and so on, which he later uses to torment them when they are being tortured.

Later on, O'Brien confirms that it was all a ruse. In Orwell's words:

You have read the book, Goldstein's book, or parts of it, at least. Did it tell you anything that you did not know already?'

'You have read it?' said Winston.

'I wrote it. That is to say, I collaborated in writing it. No book is produced individually, as you know.'

'Is it true, what it says?'

'A description, yes. The programme it sets forth is nonsense. The secret accumulation of knowledge -- a gradual spread of enlightenment -- ultimately a proletarian rebellion -- the overthrow of the Party. You foresaw yourself that that was what it would say. It is all nonsense. The proletarians will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot. I do not have to tell you the reason: you know it already. If you have ever cherished any dreams of violent insurrection, you must abandon them. There is no way in which the Party can be overthrown. The rule of the Party is for ever. Make that the starting-point of your thoughts.'