What if???!!!!

[litlenani]

I Know You Will Respond



What if, Allah(the name of God for Muslims) couldn't take the time to bless us today because we
couldn't
take the time to thank Him yesterday?



What if Allah decided to stop leading us tomorrow because we didn't follow
Him today?



What if, we never saw another flower bloom because we grumbled when Allah
sent the Rain?



What if Allah didn't walk with us today because we failed to recognize it
as His day?



What if, Allah took away the Quran tomorrow because we would not read it
today?



What if,Allah took away His message because we failed to listen to the
messenger?



What if, the door of the Mosque was closed because we did not open the
door
of our heart?



What if, Allah stopped loving and caring for us because we failed to love
and care for others?



What if, Allah would not hear us to! day because we would not listen to Him?



What if, Allah answered our prayers the way we answer His calls .



What if, Allah met our needs the way we give Him our lives???



What if, We failed to send this message on?



THIS IS A SIMPLE TEST.......



If you love Allah, send this on!!!

[serpico]

If I were you I'd quit fùcking with people's heads.

[azmuse]

if your god or any other loved so conditionally, that would throw divine love in the sewer heap wouldn't it

[Dyrwen]

What if? (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/)

[serpico]

Pascal's argument was un-****in'-real. So you say to yourself, 'by not believing in Christianity I stand a fifty-percent chance of going to Hell, which is infinitely bad. On the other hand, if I choose to believe in God and Christianity, there's a fifty-percent chance of making it into Heaven, which is infinitely good.' Look at it this way, if you average it out, half (fifty-percent) of infinity is still infinity, so you're still better off when it comes to the statistics. Half of negative infinity (what Hell should be considered) is still negative infinity. This translates roughly as: no matter what you think, it is wrong to not believe in Christianity. This is why religious wackos should not fùck around with math.

But since this thread has nothing to do with Christianity, I'll just shut before I get banned.

[imthefoolonthehill]

Where is my post?

What if every other arsehole decided to spam this forum with their religious cliches like you do?

[litlenani]

I just wanna tell a truth which is that if you did not find anything reasonable in that post you would not have replied. It is simply the truth which no sensible man can deny. The truth that if you worship one God (Allah) the creator of the universe you will gurantee heaven 100% if not you know where you shall defintley go

[Dyrwen]

Looks like someone didn't click my link.

[imthefoolonthehill]

litlenani... your logic is flawed...

You are assuming I have better things to do than waste my time being pissed at spammers like you... think again... I have plenty of time to waste, and will not hesitate in doing so

*maniacal laugh*

[Sindhu]

Originally posted by litlenani
It is simply the truth which no sensible man can deny. The truth that if you worship one God (Allah) the creator of the universe you will gurantee heaven 100% if not you know where you shall defintley go
Trying hard to be "POLITE"
Let me get this straight- THE Truth? The One God? UNDENIABLE(If you deny it you're not Sensible) And finally let me get this really really clear- You personally guarantee- GUARANTEE heaven if the suggested recipe is accepted?
Gosh, I thought I was religious- but my confidence quivers at the thought of such a cast iron Guarantee:)
Stopping now- the strain of " politeness " is beginning to tell!

[Kinch]

Take her down a peg, Sindhu.

[litlenani]

In sending that post I did not mean to offend anyone or to say that I am against your beliefs. who said that I do not believe in Christianity. in fact all of the religions and all of the Holy books have the same principle which is peace for all people and this peace cannot be achieved unless we worship one God our ceator . Moreover, you should know that Muslims believe in all religions and in all prophets ,it is an essential part of our belief and anyone who does not believe in them is not a Muslim. In fact, there are no cntradictions between Islam and other religions. All of them came from the same source (our creator) the difference is in names. May be you were offended by my post which I believe that the problem in me not in you or in my religion. May be I failed to post the right thing.But if you can just take the trouble to see the following sites they may show you a clearer picture than the one I posted
http://www.zaytuna.org/
http://islam-online.net/english/index.shtml
http://www.al-islam.com/

[Kinch]

If you're dumb enough to believe in God, you're going to have a pretty tough time communicating with some of us.

Sorry.

[litlenani]

Are you sure you do not believe in God?! I doubt. If you do not believe in God CAN you just tell me WHY you are living for? If you do not believe in God , CAN you tell me who created you? I assure You that I am not a dumb. I am very very very PROUD of being a Muslim. and my wish in life is that all people share me this wonderful feeling. Just try to ask your self why am I living for? After my death where am I going (to heaven or hell)? Do I live in peace with myself ,with my wandering thoughts, with the people around me?? just ask. BUT I DO REALY

[litlenani]

BUT I DO REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHY DO NOT YOU BELIEVE IN GOD??????

[Kinch]

I don't believe in the existence of the soul after death. All the more reason why I gotta enjoy myself while I'm still around.

[litlenani]

What kind of enjoyment, tell me?? As for the soul, it really exists after death, and you see the proof every day, when you sleep can we say

[litlenani]

when you sleep can we say that your soul does not exist. WE CANNOT .death is just like sleeping . Like sleeping,Your body is motionless ,But your soul is ,for sure, is not. And we call sleeping as mini-death. Something I want you to know is that a Muslim really enjoys his life but in the proper way. At the same time, he does not forget The Gudgement Day. A Muslims aims to live happily in both lives ,before and after death.

[Dyrwen]

If Propaganda = True Then
Religion.Outlook = Good
Else
AlternateReligions.Appearance = Bad
End If

[Kinch]

In fact, I don't even believe in the soul! (litlenani, you're confusing the conscious with the soul.)

Pfahahaha!

Welcome to loony prayer corner, Dyrwen.

[Dyrwen]

It's easier just replying in code than in sentences. I figure if he's going to double talk in code, I might as well do BASIC.

[Sindhu]

Ok, let me try to clarify my stand here. Personally, I beleive in God and so, no I don't think it's dumb to do so. But I am not particularly either "proud" OR "ashamed" of beleiving or of being a Hindu. And I really don't think beleif is a matter for anyone of whatever persuasion to be bragging about! It's one of those things you're entitled to take or leave, but don't act as if it somehow made you superior- if we are talking morality or goodness, I can list quite an impressive lot of atheists.
Regarding the original "What if " post littlenani, I don't agree at all with the conditional, vengeful idea of divine love contained therein- and my reaction would have been the same if you had said Christ or Brahma or Buddha or God instead of Allah. But, though I found the post irritatingly chain mailish, I would have refrained from responding- after all, if you want to beleive in a God who follows a "give as good as he gets" policy, that's your business, though personally I prefer a more compassionate idea.
But it was the "politeness" post which got me going- the ONE God, the UNDENIABLE truth, the GUARANTEE- Oh, Come on- give me a break!
IF there is a heaven- and I offer no guarantees- the one thing I am sure of is that there is no ONE way to it. It is simply asking for it to assert the superiority of one choice over the other and I include atheism and agnosticism among the choices. Faith is one thing- proof is another.
And while I do not object to any beleif or unbeleif-I do object STRONGLY to any sort of EVANGELICAL tendency whatsoever- it is perfectly possible to have a DISCUSSION of various faiths without trying to evangelize and that is what ASSERTIONS, without proof of the superiority or infallibility of ANY faith ammounts to! That, I do OBJECT to in good earnest.

[litlenani]

I think that you misuderstood my first post. It is not a mere coditionding , I was wondering what would happen to us if .....as logical sequences of the bad things we do everyday. Notice please I am against no bodys' beliefs. As for what you called the feeling of superiority, it is pride. I am proud of being a Muslim. I need you to know that the Islamic belief consists of:
1- you believe in one God (our creater)
2 to believe in His Angels
3- to believe in His Books
4- to believe in His prophets(messengers)
5-to believe in The Day of Judgement
6- to believe in fate
for more explanations about the previous points please visit
http://www.islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/index.shtml

Finally I am not here to offend any one, I want here just to tell you what is Islam , and it is up to you to decide to believe or not

[Gozeta]

Sorry but I believe we do have one God. The thing is this one God we have given so many different names. I see that that vast of the world's religions are just different ways in honoring this one God, our creater.

[Dyrwen]

Originally posted by litlenani 1- you believe in one God (our creater)
2 to believe in His Angels
3- to believe in His Books
4- to believe in His prophets(messengers)
5-to believe in The Day of Judgement
6- to believe in fate
for more explanations about the previous points please visit

Finally I am not here to offend any one, I want here just to tell you what is Islam , and it is up to you to decide to believe or not [/B]
1. I believe in no gods, problem #1.
2. Just like those gods, an angel is as believable and therefore just as imaginary. Do you believe in fairies that are written about in books too? They fly about as well you know.
3. The books are as good as the stories that they speak of, boring literature without any validity. All testimonial and parable. Get some facts, it makes the faith look less transparent.
4. Prophets: (see #3). No validity.
5. Day might come, I'll give you that. Although it will be caused naturally and every religion in the world with a day of judgment will claim it was their god's will to do so. For now, I'll be waiting, as everyone always has been.
6. Fate is also just a concept brought up by coincidence, one makes one's own future by choosing what to do with one's life now.

And to your final statement, I suppose anything works to lure in new recruits, but quite frankly, if someone already knows of your religion, I doubt you'll ever get the same good responses of converts. If they are in anyway loving of rights most women would receive in the normal world and the ones your religion has allowed, it'd most easily sway any person from converting to your sect of godism.

There's a new word for ya, welcome to a world with all the other religions that have a god, yours is no more valid or false. It's merely your belief in it that makes it true, not factual.

[Sindhu]

littlenani, would you please tell me what exactly there is to be PROUD of in being a Muslim, or a Christian, or Hindu for that matter? It isn't exactly anything you ACHEIVE- so where does the pride part come in? You HAPPEN to belong to a particular faith, which is one among many paths to God, IF you happen to beleive in God, so what exactly is there to be either Proud or Ashamed of in it?

[crisaor]

Good point, Sindhu. I would presume that the pride part enters in order to better fulfill the duties assigned to a particular religion. I mean, it's probably easier to follow the rules of a religion if you're proud to be a part of it. Anyway, pride's a pretty common feeling anyway: I'm proud of the soccer team I support, of some my ideas, and many other sh**. :)

[litlenani]

Originally posted by Dyrwen
3. The books are as good as the stories that they speak of, boring literature without any validity. All testimonial and parable. Get some facts, it makes the faith look less transparent.
.
Unfortunatley,The holy books you may have read are DISTORTED. A holy Book is not a mere collection of stories or boring literautre. They contain the words of God. Fortunately, you can raed His words undistorted in The Holy Qura'an. And you will have all the answers you need including Why Am I Proud of Being a Muslim. Sindhu you too will find out all the answers you want. You will lose nothing in reading The Holy Qura'an. In the following link you see the part (sora in Arabic) of the Holy Qura'an which talks about Jeasus and his gracious Mother peace be upon them. I do recommend that you listen to the Arabic recitation of the sora. Because listening to the Arabic recitation will help you for better understanding and feeling of the sora. wish you all the best.
http://quran.al-islam.com/Targama/DispTargam.asp?nType=1&nSeg=0&l=eng&nSora=19&nAya=1&t=eng
If possible If you like I can send you an English translation of The holy Qura'a. If you like you can send me your P.O.Boox number via email

[Kinch]

Here's something to think about: over the past fifty years archaeologists from Rome have been excavating one of the three great civilizations of the ancient world, Ebla (the lesser known of the other two, Egypt and Mesopotamia). If you know anything about the Old Testament (you should, because it is the foundation of Islam, Judaism and Christianity), you know that Abraham came to Egpyt from the city of Ur, which is known to be a Mesopotamian city. Assuming that was where Abraham came to Egypt from, Judaism truly was a divine revelation that appeared out of the blue (it doesn't seem to have spawned from any of the Mesopotamian beliefs of that time). However, there was also a suburban city in Ebla called Ur, just as there are suburbs all over the US----Chinatown, Little Italy, &c----that are home to immigrants. The established belief system in Ebla at that time was almost identical to Judaism, so if Abraham came from Ebla (which was unknown to anyone until it was discovered fifty years ago), then that might undermine the Old Testament and, subsequently, Judaism, Islam and Christianity as well.

For the first time in 2,000 years, there may be tangible proof that Christianity might not be true after all. For the first time, we might have found a way to silence that ignorant, anti-intellectual segment of American society: the Southern Baptists.

[crisaor]

Originally posted by Kinch
For the first time in 2,000 years, there may be tangible proof that Christianity might not be true after all.
Nobody can prove that, for any religion. It's a matter of belief. Even if someone showed up and exposed all possible evidence denying the existance of (a) God in a plausible manner, most people devoted to a certain faith would still keep it. You see, for some people, religion isn't a block of stone to tell you how the world was created, or how it should be ruled, or any of that. It's a guide, a book to learn of, not to follow blindly.

[Kinch]

Sure, I think some people will still cling to their beliefs, but, at worst, it will open some people's eyes to the fact that religions were just another evolutionary phenomena.

[crisaor]

You're an atheist, then?

[litlenani]

Originally posted by crisaor
. It's a guide, a book to learn of, not to follow blindly.
I really liked this part of your reply, that we do not follow blindly. And I do agree with you. That is why I am a Muslim. As for Ibraham peace be upon him is the prphet who called Muslims with this name. In fact, I know all the information Kinch mentioned about him. Ibrahem peace be upon him has been mentioned so many times in the Holy Qura'an. And there is a complete part (sura) called Ibrahem. You can read it with the English translation in the following link
http://quran.al-islam.com/Targama/DispTargam.asp?nType=1&nSeg=0&l=eng&nSora=14&nAya=1&t=eng

Something you should know about the Holy Qura'an that it has and will never have but one version only . It is just the same form 1400 years. Thats why I trust It. We do not have old or new. It is just one.

[star blue]

it is pointless to try and persuade anyone of anything . . .

though, I think the lesson here is far simpler and shorter.

[Koa]

Some people believe in other things. Some people don't have beliefs. I can't say I believe in a God, but I'm alive, somehow.

litlenani, there's no WHY in thse things. You believe in Allah, good for you, I see you're happy with that. But some people don't feel it, should they kill themselves? No, they just live on according to their own feelings.

I can't say i like your wish that all people share your belief. I see you're passionate about it, but there's nothing you can do to convert others. And with going on like this, you can make them bored and less willing to listen to you, so your purpose fails even more miserably. Live according to your beliefs, and let others live according to theirs...we don't have to be all the same!

(Amen :D)

[Dyrwen]

Simply put, as I say often to those with a god in their books, an example will suffice:

If you happen to use a recipe book that says how to make pasta, and I don't like pasta, I won't be reading that book for any particular reason other than boredom.

i.e. Until you give me a reason to believe in your god, I will not be trying to believe in it. Let alone read a book that hypes up who the thing is rather than tells me why I should believe. In the end, almost all reasons involve 1. Fear of Hell 2. Because of the love the god has for me.

1. I do not believe there is a Hell to fear and even if it did exist, the concept alone is nothing to fear, as it is eternal in most cases, therefore redundant to scream in pain everyday when it's the same pain as yesterday.

2. Love of a god is no different than the love of anything or anyone else, all gods might love me for all I know, no one has proven otherwise, but no matter what the god's opinion of me is, it holds me to no standard. Just because you jump infront of a mine to save my life because you love me, doesn't mean I love you back. And just because your god wants to save me from a bad place, doesn't mean I have to believe or even love it back.

Aren't hypothetical realizations fun?

[star blue]

that was a good explanation. I enjoyed the cookbook analogy.

[star blue]

and the mine analogy . . . that's the real deal.

[Dyrwen]

Heh, thanks. I tend to do this a lot, so dealing with someone who feels they've figured things out is a fun lot to play in.

It's much easier to be a philosopher in the art of life than to be a poet with a belief in literature.

[star blue]

touche.

[litlenani]

Koa I am not here to force people to be believers, I am here just to tell them what is Islam ,and they are free to decide to believe or not. I am just doing my duty ,wich is the duty of all Muslims, to tell people about Islam and They are free to decide.
Dyrwen, I wanna tell you something about me which is that I , somehow, used to think like you. And I am not ashamed to say that I used to be a bad weak Muslim. My relationship with Allah was almost broken. I was too far from being a Muslim. But one day, my dear uncle died. Fear of death, Fear of meeting Allah with all the sins I committed, My love for Allah and my longing to heaven were awakened inside me. I realized for the first time that my life is a fake. I realized that I cannot live without Allah. I realized that the only way to be rescued is to go back to Him. And eversince I became a totally different person.

The merit of Faithhttp://www.al-islam.com/maknazlatin/Tree.asp?l=eng&p=0-0-0-

[Dyrwen]

Originally posted by litlenani
Dyrwen, I wanna tell you something about me which is that I , somehow, used to think like you. And I am not ashamed to say that I used to be a bad weak Muslim. My relationship with Allah was almost broken. I was too far from being a Muslim. But one day, my dear uncle died. Fear of death, Fear of meeting Allah with all the sins I committed, My love for Allah and my longing to heaven were awakened inside me. I realized for the first time that my life is a fake. I realized that I cannot live without Allah. I realized that the only way to be rescued is to go back to Him. And eversince I became a totally different person.
So you fear death and need a god to give yourself a meaning to live. That was a poor attempt at making yourself appear like me once, considering: I've never actually followed a religion avidly nor have I ever felt a particular fear of death outside of when I was a small child. The death of a family member occurs like the death of all, one can only accept its occurence.

One must not fear what one cannot stop. You may use a god to make your death seem to have a better place to go to when it occurs, but there's still a chance to have a bad death if you did something wrong. Where as I in my lack of belief in that sort of afterlife possibility merely see death as a stopping point of life. No consequences, just death. Pure non existence.

Your Argument from pity (http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/ap.htm) as well as your attempt at an emotional angle failed. The merits to your faith have only shown that because you fear death, you need a god. I don't.

Might I suggest you try to see that your beliefs are your own and not to be spread about to those whom have no purpose for them? Or would you like to try again?:)

[litlenani]

I do see that my beliefs are my own. And telling people about them ,NOT to force people to follow them,is an essential part of my belief. Moreover, it is not the fear of death ONLY that made me believe, it is only one of the reasons that made me believe. I have told you my start only.I have told you only about my first moment of realization. By the way, this happened about 10 years ago. Since then my love for Islam is growing day after day to the extent that I wish all people to be Muslims. That is simply why I am here. You have heard my message, and you are free to take it or leave it. NOTICE PLEASE,YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PITY ME.
Something more, I really liked your way of arguing Dyrwen.

[Dyrwen]

The portrayal of "pity" I mentioned was one of a subconscious debate tactic, that was the only reason I showed it, so you knew to avoid it. Hehe..

Glad your religion works for you, glad I can do without it as well. Keep showing your beliefs to be accepted or dismissed, but never faulter merely because one has criticized them.

Post on a more broad subject or start becoming more factual and less testimonial. Just a thought..

[litlenani]

Dyrwen from your replies I could infer that you are:
- highly intellectual
- have a remarkable ability in arguing
- do not find any merits in faith
- do not belive in God
- do not belive in life after death
Notice I did not have to see you or to hear your voice to find out these things or to believe that you exist. In fact I do not have to break anybodys' skull to believe that that one has a brain. From his or her acts, speech ...etc I can tell. The same thing is applied in believing in the existance of God. I do not have to see Him or to hear His voice to believe in His existance. His creation , His books, His words in the Holy Qura'an are enough to make me believe ,sure no human can creat nothing like His creations

[Dyrwen]

Nice to see you have used my actions to determine my personality.

When I see your or any other person's gods get around to doing something, I'll make the same descriptions. Until then, describe the undescribable and attempt to make sense of that being to which cannot be explained.

I'd rather not waste time on something I've yet to find a reason to believe in, but nice to see you've got yourself something figured out.

[Jay]

Littleani
... sure no human can creat nothing like His creations

Which reminds me, who/what IS any god? If he's (was???) human, you denied he/she/it/whatever could do ... things. If a god is a spirit of something/someone, he had to exist before in a solid body, so is he/... the first human? And if he/... is (was), then it's back to "sure no human can creat nothing like His creations" thingy. And if a god is someone's BELIEF, then it indeed are HUMANS who do all the things considered miraculous/yadda... (THEY make miracles... out of things). Can anyone see my point?

[crisaor]

Originally posted by Jay
And if a god is someone's BELIEF, then it indeed are HUMANS who do all the things considered miraculous/yadda... (THEY make miracles... out of things). Can anyone see my point?
I think I can. I've heard that idea before, and it always leaves me wondering....

[litlenani]

[190] Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of Night and Day, there are indeed Signs for men of understanding.

[191] Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (with the thought): "Our Lord! not for naught hast thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the Penalty of the Fire.

[192] "Our Lord! any whom Thou dost admit to the Fire, truly Thou coverest with shame, and never will wrong-doers find any helpers! [193] "Our Lord! we have heard the call of one calling (us) to Faith, `Believe ye in the Lord', and we have believed. Our Lord! forgive us our sins, blot out from us our iniquities, and take to Thyself our souls in the company of the righteous.

[194] "Our Lord! Grant us what Thou didst promise unto us through Thy Messengers, and save us from shame on the Day of Judgment; for Thou never breakest Thy promise."

Sura "Al-i-Imran" ,verse no.190-194 ,The Holy Qura'an
http://quran.al-islam.com/Targama/DispTargam.asp?nType=1&nSeg=0&l=eng&nSora=3&nAya=190&t=eng

[Sindhu]

WHAT exactly, is the POINT of these quotes?

[atiguhya padma]

Litlenani,

You said earlier:

<in fact all of the religions and all of the Holy books have the same principle which is peace for all people and this peace cannot be achieved unless we worship one God our ceator >

According to the Worldwatch Institute, around 4 billion people on this planet believe in a major monotheist religion. Doesn't that make you wonder why there is so much war, crime, genocide, etc? If that many people believe in a God, how can today's world be the way it is? Maybe the answer is: because the majority of Earth's people believe in monotheism: a belief system that legitimises elitism; that propagates the idea of eternal suffering for those who aren't 'one of us'; that fosters psychotic delusions of self-righteousness etc.

Monotheism is the creation of the Egyptian pharoah Akhenaten. He ruthlessly suppressed polytheism in Egypt so that he could have ultimate religious and political power. This process has characterised monotheism ever since. As long as the majority of humankind blindly follows the monotheist religions, then I doubt whether we will see much in the way of peace on the planet.

[litlenani]

atiguhya padma

What is hapening now makes my heart ache. But believing in God is not enough to live in peace. We must put that belief into action by following His religion. As you may propably know that people before Islam used to believe in God, nevertheless, they did not worship Him and they did not follow his religion. What is hapening now is , unfortunately, the consequences of not following His religion and not applying it the way it should. Religion is not a mere set of beliefs. A person's beliefs should be reflected in his actions. In fact, Religion is manners. May be you should read the ,for example, history of Al-Andalus, Spain now, and you will know how did people live in peace by applying religion.

[atiguhya padma]

And I suppose His religion just happens to be the one you are following and not the other hundreds of different religions and sects in the world. Did you realise that is exactly what most of the other religions and sects are saying too? Funny that isn't it?

And I suppose the fact that you worship the religion that you were either born into, or introduced to through your own culture is merely a coincidence is it? or did God put you there especially?

You know I believe that the real Creator of the Universe is my cat. No-one will believe me because they cannot see him the way I do. If they believed in him, they too would understand that he created the Universe. If they don't believe this, it is because they haven't opened up their hearts to him. Once they do, they will believe. See, it's as simple as that. Believe and you will see. Of course, no-one can disprove my proposition. No-one can show that my cat is not the Creator of the Universe. And my cat has one big advantage over all other religious explanations: I can see him, feel him, hear him, because I know he exists.

Oh and by the way, the reason my cat hasn't sorted out the world's problems, is that the world doesn't believe in him.

Love in the Feline,

Atiguhya Padma

[litlenani]

I think you should study and read and read and read about religions before you judge.
And I suppose the fact that you worship the religion that you were either born into, or introduced to through your own culture is merely a coincidence is it? or did God put you there especially?
As I said before I follwed the Islamic religion about ten years ago. And this was not because of the reasons you mentioned. May be your prepositions might be true for some people,but necessarily for all people. There are many people became Muslims by reading and extensive relgious studies nevertheless they were not born
into, or introduced to through THIER own culture is merely a coincidence is it? or did God put THEM there especially
God can never ever be your cat. If you believe it is GIVE ME REASONS. I do believe that Islam is HIS religion.

[star blue]

you've totally missed his point, litlenani. whether you think a cat can be god or not is irrelevant and subjective. kind of like all religions . . .

[crisaor]

Bast is the only one I can think of.

[atiguhya padma]

Littlenani,

I can't believe that you took me seriously. Maybe that says something in itself.

My point was that religious propositions are unfalsifiable. They will never be proved or disproved. So all we are really left with is persuasive or unpersuasive rhetoric. As Wittgenstein said "that of which we cannot speak, we must remain forever silent."

However, there can be logical inconsistencies and contradictions in religious propositions, and it is because of logical inconsistencies in the Christian notion of God that I cannot possibly believe in him. The same goes for any absolute conception of God.

If I really believed that my cat was God, I would expect people to think that I was under a delusion. And yet, I believe there are no better reasons to believe in God than there are to believe my cat is the creator of the Universe.

Littlenani, how do you know that I haven't studied other religions?

[den]

atiguhya, when I put the tinfoil cap on my cat? she speaks to me! Thanks for a little levity around here ;)

[Sindhu]

Originally posted by atiguhya padma
You know I believe that the real Creator of the Universe is my cat. No-one will believe me because they cannot see him the way I do. . No-one can show that my cat is not the Creator of the Universe. And my cat has one big advantage over all other religious explanations: I can see him, feel him, hear him, because I know he exists.

Oh and by the way, the reason my cat hasn't sorted out the world's problems, is that the world doesn't believe in him.

Love in the Feline,

Atiguhya Padma
I SIMPLY CAN"T RESIST posting this;)

From JUBILATE AGNO

For I will consider my Cat Jeoffry.
For he is the servant of the Living God duly and daily serving him.
For at the first glance of the glory of God in the East he worships in his way.
For this is done by wreathing his body seven times round with elegant quickness.
For then he leaps up to catch the musk, which is the blessing of God upon his
prayer.
For he rolls upon prank to work it in.
For having done duty and received blessing he begins to consider himself.
For this he performs in ten degrees.
For first he looks upon his forepaws to see if they are clean.
For secondly he kicks up behind to clear away there.
For thirdly he works it upon stretch with the forepaws extended.
For fourthly he sharpens his paws by wood.
For fifthly he washes himself.
For sixthly he rolls upon wash.
For seventhly he fleas himself, that he may not be interrupted upon the beat.
For eighthly he rubs himself against a post.
For ninthly he looks up for his instructions.
For tenthly he goes in quest of food.
For having considered God and himself he will consider his neighbour.
For if he meets another cat he will kiss her in kindness.
For when he takes his prey he plays with it to give it a chance.
For one mouse in seven escapes by his dallying.
For when his day's work is done his business more properly begins.
For he keeps the Lord's watch in the night against the adversary.
For he counteracts the powers of darkness by his electrical skin and glaring eyes.
For he counteracts the Devil, who is death, by brisking about the life.
For in his morning orisons he loves the sun and the sun loves him.
For he is of the tribe of Tiger.
For the Cherub Cat is a term of the Angel Tiger.
For he has the subtlety and hissing of a serpent, which in goodness he suppresses.
For he will not do destruction, if he is well-fed, neither will he spit without
provocation.
For he purrs in thankfulness, when God tells him he's a good Cat.
For he is an instrument for the children to learn benevolence upon.
For every house is incomplete without him and a blessing is lacking in the spirit.
For the Lord commanded Moses concerning the cats at the departure of the
Children of Israel from Egypt.
For every family had one cat at least in the bag.
For the English Cats are the best in Europe.
For he is the cleanest in the use of his forepaws of any quadruped.
For the dexterity of his defence is an instance of the love of God to him
exceedingly.
For he is the quickest to his mark of any creature.
For he is tenacious of his point.
For he is a mixture of gravity and waggery.
For he knows that God is his Saviour.
For there is nothing sweeter than his peace when at rest.
For there is nothing brisker than his life when in motion.
For he is of the Lord's poor and so indeed is he called by benevolence perpetually
- Poor Jeoffry! poor Jeoffry! the rat has bit thy throat.
For I bless the name of the Lord Jesus that Jeoffry is better.
For the divine spirit comes about his body to sustain it in complete cat.
For his tongue is exceeding pure so that it has in purity what it wants in music.
For he is docile and can learn certain things.
For he can set up with gravity which is patience upon approbation.
For he can fetch and carry, which is patience in employment.
For he can jump over a stick which is patience upon proof positive.
For he can spraggle upon waggle at the word of command.
For he can jump from an eminence into his master's bosom.
For he can catch the cork and toss it again.
For he is hated by the hypocrite and miser.
For the former is afraid of detection.
For the latter refuses the charge.
For he camels his back to bear the first notion of business.
For he is good to think on, if a man would express himself neatly.
For he made a great figure in Egypt for his signal services.
For he killed the Ichneumon-rat very pernicious by land.
For his ears are so acute that they sting again.
For from this proceeds the passing quickness of his attention.
For by stroking of him I have found out electricity.
For I perceived God's light about him both wax and fire.
For the Electrical fire is the spiritual substance, which God sends from heaven
to sustain the bodies both of man and beast.
For God has blessed him in the variety of his movements.
For, though he cannot fly, he is an excellent clamberer.
For his motions upon the face of the earth are more than any other quadruped.
For he can tread to all the measures upon the music.
For he can swim for life.
For he can creep.
-CHRISTOPHER SMART.

BTW, Smart was a VERY religious man- almost to the point of frenzy:)
Atiguhya Padma, may I thankfully echo den's gratitude for a little levity around here?



:)

[atiguhya padma]

Thanks for that post Sindhu. It's been a long time since I read anything of Christopher Smart's. I have always found him to be one of the most interesting of 18th century English poets, along with Blake, of course (although Blake may be considered to be 19th cent I suppose).

Atiguhya Padma

[litlenani]

atiguhya padma
sorry for the misundrestanding.

[Mililalil XXIV]

litlenani... your logic is flawed...

You are assuming I have better things to do than waste my time being pissed at spammers like you... think again... I have plenty of time to waste, and will not hesitate in doing so

*maniacal laugh*

But what if you didn't?

[Logos]

Old topic with flames, bumped, now closed :)