Foreign Novels?

[hender]

Hey!, well i need some help regarding, foreign literature. I've been reading english literature all my life and i'm keen to try out some foreign novels, , something different, what are the values in reading foreign novels?

thanks in advance guys.

[Jean-Baptiste]

Welcome to the forums, hender!

Do you mean value in general of non-English novels, or value of specific non-English novels? What novels are you becoming interested in? Is there a specific nationality's literature that you're interested in? (Sorry to bombard you with questions in response to your question.) Perhaps you could tell us what English novels have absorbed your attention thusfar. Also, by English do you mean British, or English language literature in general?

Okay, finished with my questions for now, and ready to provide answers and suggestions. The value that I see in branching out is found in a wider scope and more representative world view. Being told a few facts about a different nation, on the news for instance, is an entirely different matter than becoming acquainted with a national mind set through its accepted or popular literature. Therefore, it would seem entirely beneficial to read fiction created by a foreign author.

As for suggestions, I would recommend Russian novels as a first step toward the wide world. Some of my favorite works of fiction have come out of Russia. They are, in a very generalized way, very human stories--full of intrigue, emotion, and real human reactions. More specifically, I would recommend starting with something by Dostoevsky or Turgenev. Chekov and Bulgakov might also suit your purpose.

Enjoy, and again welcome.:)

[hender]

thanks for the welcome and reply jean-baptiste. I mean the value in general, i've been becoming interested in japanese novels, like kitchen, totto chan translated of course, since i have just moved to tokyo from australia 2 months ago. Also i mean english language literature in general. Russian novels also seem rather interesting, i'll look into that, thanks jean.

[hender]

oh yes, one more question, quiet random, but rather interesting..

are there any bad points on reading foreign books there has to be? this isn't deterring me from reading them but it is interesting to know...

thanks

[PeterL]

oh yes, one more question, quiet random, but rather interesting..

are there any bad points on reading foreign books there has to be? this isn't deterring me from reading them but it is interesting to know...

thanks

Sometimes the translations aren't very good. That doesn't happen very often, but it does happen.

[Pensive]

thanks for the welcome and reply jean-baptiste. I mean the value in general, i've been becoming interested in japanese novels, like kitchen, totto chan translated of course, since i have just moved to tokyo from australia 2 months ago. Also i mean english language literature in general. Russian novels also seem rather interesting, i'll look into that, thanks jean.

Wow! Do you mean the story of Totto Chan, the little girl who got expelled from a school and who is very talkative? I tried to find it a lot, but couldn't. There was an excerpt in our fifth grade book from Totto Chan. I loved it so much. It was about Totto Chan's meeting with the headmaster when she got expelled from her previous school. It was a good translation, I wish I could one day find the whole story. :)

[Guzmán]

Sometimes the translations aren't very good. That doesn't happen very often, but it does happen.

Even if the translations are as good as they can be, i often feel that many things are lost just the same. Spanish is my first language (although I read much more literature in english than i do in spanish) so i've had esperiences of cases where ive seen the spanish and english versions of texts where the "charm" of the original text is lost, even when the translation is pretty good as far as concepts are concerned. It happens both ways too, when the original is in English or when it is in Spanish.

[Bastet]

My case is the same as Guzmán's. My first language is Spanish but I read in English a lot, and sometimes it's just not the same. The translation might be a good work in itself, but still something is missing in comparison to the original one

[PeterL]

Even if the translations are as good as they can be, i often feel that many things are lost just the same. Spanish is my first language (although I read much more literature in english than i do in spanish) so i've had esperiences of cases where ive seen the spanish and english versions of texts where the "charm" of the original text is lost, even when the translation is pretty good as far as concepts are concerned. It happens both ways too, when the original is in English or when it is in Spanish.

Iunderstand and agree. Some things just don't come across the same way in translation. The only way to have a really good translation is one by the original author, and few authors do their own translations. Umberto Eco rewrote one book in EWnglish, because it didn't work well in translation.

[Jean-Baptiste]

Now that we're on the topic of translations, I wonder why it might be considered better for the reader to have a fluent understanding of the original language, such as Thoreau advocates in Walden with regard to reading ancient Greek texts, rather than relying on an expert's translation. It would seem that one's own understanding of a language may be just as fallible as any other translator. One would merely be taking one's own authority over another's. I do suppose that a firm grounding in a particular language may help to explicate all possible interpretations of a particular phrase or passage, but a good translator should be able to embody an original meaning in the translation, taking into consideration all possible interpretations. Thoreau was writing in a time when perhaps there were no available, reliable translations of Homer. Does this sentiment of his, then apply today? It would seem that there are myriad versions and translations available, if we were to narrow this to Homer, that a serious student might be able to compare and glean an ultimate interpretation from. Although, that may be a more daunting task than gaining a fluency in ancient Greek.

On the other hand, I read a particular translation of Nietzsche's The Antichrist years ago (and I'm so ashamed and disappointed that I do not know who the translator was) and I was so impressed that I lent it to a friend to read, and never got it back. So I bought another copy a couple of years later, a different translation, and I was appalled by the tone and blatantly violent overal-message it contained. It was directly advocating genocide! Therefore, I'm sure it's risky relying on a translator; who knows what ulterior motives one may have for altering an original work through translation. I now have no idea what Nietzsche actually meant.

Anyway, what do you think of these two thoughts?:brickwall

[loe]

Hello!

I also would recommend the Russians (they are great). And I appreciate Max Frisch (especially "Stiller"). In this case I have the advantage not to need a translation.;)
Sometimes translations are very difficult, though texts are easier to translate than poems. I think the problem is not the meaning of a text - it's the translation of the atmosphere. I don't know how to explain this exactly, but I hope you know what I mean.;)
Marcel Proust ist one example, that is very difficult to translate correctly (I've heard that the english translation is not so bad like the german).

@Jean-Baptiste: I think Nietzsche is one of the most misunterstood philosophers and therefore are the translations so extremely different (but there exists also some difference in the german texts, because Nietzsche was misused by the nazis).

Greetings

[bluevictim]

As for suggestions for good novels not originally written in English, in addition to the Russians which have already been mentioned, I'd also suggest any of the "anangke" novels of Victor Hugo (Notre-Dame de Paris, Les Miserables, Toilers of the Sea), and of course everyone should read Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes.



Now that we're on the topic of translations, I wonder why it might be considered better for the reader to have a fluent understanding of the original language, such as Thoreau advocates in Walden with regard to reading ancient Greek texts, rather than relying on an expert's translation. It would seem that one's own understanding of a language may be just as fallible as any other translator.In my opinion the main issue is that, for a lot of literature, the value comes not just from what the words and sentences mean, but also how the words and sentences say what they mean, and the emotional response that they evoke. It is usually not clear what the best translation is among all possible translations -- it depends on what the translator feels is most important, whether it's the literal meaning of the words, or the rhythm, or the word order, or the sounds in the passage, or some allusions that are made. Perhaps a visual analogy would help. Translating Homer (for example) is kind of like copying an oil painting with watercolors.

As loe pointed out, poetry is an extreme example (Homer's works, by the way, are poems). On the other extreme might be a shopping list.

[Jean-Baptiste]

Welcome to the forums, loe. That's a very good point about the Nazis and Nietzsche. Thanks for your comments.

I really appreciate your point of view also, bluevictim. Do you hold then that Thoreau's point is still relevant? Do you suggest that one actually does need a thorough grounding in ancient Greek to come to a full appreciation of Homer? "Translating Homer (for example) is kind of like copying an oil painting with watercolors." I like that analogy. In that way then, no amount of comparison between various translations could bring one to a ultimate sense of the original. How unfortunate.

I'm sorry to encourage this tangent in your thread, hender. I would still be very interested to know what others consider the value of foreign (to whatever nationalities one's particular parallax designates that term) literature. That is still a very good question.

[bluevictim]

Jean-Baptiste, since this thread about translation came up, I'll respond to your comments about translation there.