The Vigilante's Gambit

[RobinHood3000]

One vote over 100 posts -- mine. I dunno, I kinda thought it was pretty good. At any rate, I liked writing it. Anyone who can offer me feedback will have my sincerest gratitude.

[Dr Eep]

I liked it!! It kind of had a dark 'fight club' kind of mentality to it, where the themes of dual personality, friendship and suicide are explored. Also, the vulnerability and menace of both the main character and his friend were successfully portrayed which is quite a skillful thing to pull off. It held my attention right to the end. An interesting story indeed!! Is this fiction or did a similar thing happen?

[RobinHood3000]

Fiction, although to say a theme didn't inspire it would be lying. Thanks for the praise -- anyone else have something to say? Come on, please don't be shy...I genuinely want to know what people thought.

[ShoutGrace]

I take the tissue paper off the receiver – makes my voice raspier –

I laughed here at first - quite obviously before I figured out what was actually going on in that conversation (I was thinking the girl was taking off to another town, or it was simply a break-up conversation, etc).

I was so mortified by my callousness that I had trouble appreciating the rest of the story.

I also have trouble with this sentence:


I assume seeing a familiar face on my monitor shocked me aloof.

It seems like in the next sentence you're saying that it is luckier for Tara that you didn't become so aloof? :confused:

[RobinHood3000]

I meant that it was luckier for Tara that Vigilante did become aloof -- my apologies if it was unclear, and I also apologize if the subject material was a bit of a downer. There's not much of a way around that second one, I'm afraid.

[ShoutGrace]

No no, the subject material is what it is. I'm kind of exaggerating my feeling, but I did feel self-critical and strange after laughing at (what turned out to be) such a dreadfully serious situation!

The dialogue was appealing, and indeed I did stay interested and wouldn't have wanted to stop reading (which is clearly to your credit :D).

[RobinHood3000]

Thanks. I'm trying to figure out if it should bother me that I can make suicide morbidly interesting.

[SleepyWitch]

I found it intriguing but a bit confusing towards the end. I didn't quite get who was who etc.

[RobinHood3000]

Ah, okay, sorry.

Two main characters:

Vigilante (the narrator) and Tara (the girl). Tara is Vigilante's neighbor -- they'd been good friends for a while. Vigilante has been tracking would-be suicide cases for a long time now, but has only with Tara encountered someone he knew. Does that help?

[SleepyWitch]

yep :) actually I got it right :) i just wasn't sure :)

[Shalot]

I really liked reading this. I give it a :thumbs_up. although it seemed to me like the last part was not as tight as the first part of it. The story, characters, plot, narrative --- all good.

[RobinHood3000]

Wow, thanks -- I'm really flattered that you liked it. Congratulations on your 700th post, by the way.

I guess my story just didn't appeal to people enough, then?

[RobinHood3000]

Hmm -- you pose an interesting scenario, Whangdoodle (nice handle by the way). ...sequel? The protagonist and Tara meet again?

[ShoutGrace]

It never pays to have friends so willing to ruin something because they don't agree with it.

This extends over onto the topic of suicide?

Especially for such young people??

[Shalot]

Wow, thanks -- I'm really flattered that you liked it. Congratulations on your 700th post, by the way.

I guess my story just didn't appeal to people enough, then?

I just realized that you had entered this in the competition. I didn't even look at that and it's too late for me to cast my vote now but if I had seen that earlier I could have voted. Sorry. I don't participate much in this forum --- mostly I dork around in the games and read the general literature and poetry sections. Most of my 700 posts are games.

But I did like your story, it held my attention, and you should keep up with it (writing that is). Use it or lose it!

[RobinHood3000]

Now that I know someone agrees with me, I am emboldened...

Nor does it "pay" to have friends willing to watch you harm yourself without helping or caring.

[Whangdoodle]

Were I Tara, I would resent him for such an interferance and the irrevocable "black mark" on the life that she would then have to live because of his judgement. It never pays to have friends so willing to ruin something because they don't agree with it.

Good thing you ended the story when you did.

Other than that, I enjoyed your fiction.

[Whangdoodle]

Am I the only one who noticed that the post order in this thread has been bounced around?

Whangdoodle - Mythological bird who morns endlessly and without reason.
(look it up)

Perhaps "pay" was just a matter of poor wording.

Look at it this way (I can't believe that I'm discussing the motives and possible future thoughts of charactors that are not my own, but just the same, I do hope it helps you to develop an idea of the thoughts of the lesser important charactors in your writing) ...so why not.

Tara had already decided that her life had no value and was not worth having. Why should she endure more pain in order to perpetuate the already unwanted life?
I'm sure, and this is the voice of experience, that all her judgments beyond that day would be baised on her already self destructive ways. Judgements that would only lead to a series of unfortunate events, as she sees herself as not being worth fighting for.
It's not a far stretch to think that even though a phone call was made to "save her life" that she would continue to see no reason to better it or even find the slighest hint of anything in her that could be seen as a redeaming quaility. Trash is Trash, and one considering suicide sees themselves as just that.

The fact that a "friend" of hers put on a false persona in order to obtain her deeper thoughts under pretence of caring, is a tremendous stab in the back by one who shoud have been 'trustworthy'. Had he been a real friend, he would have pushed aside all of the self glorifying cleverness that was nothing but a tool to help himself to feel better about his own greatness. Look back at your story and see how much attention you paid the Mighty cleverness and pride in trickery that your main charactor posseses.

No, attention was paid to how the subversive act by one who considered himself to be her friend, effected her view of what a friend is capable of.
Deception...all for the self glorification of the "vigilante".

The phone call was not to help the girl who was about to free herself from an existance of pain, it was all about the moral obligation of the one who knew what she was about to do, and how that phone call would make him feel better about himself. It had nothing to do with her. If it did, he would not have made a public display of her pain, Just so he can stand back and say with his arms wide "I Saved Her, See How Great and Clever I Am".

She will have to learn to tolerate the Objecting looks from all who know about her attempted act and that includes not only family, but medical and law enforcement officials who would be made aware of her action each time they run her name through their little computers. You are treated with condecention when labled as "depressed", you can actualy see the change in expression when the read it on the computer screen.

Oh Yess (scarcasm) I can realy see how his phone call improved an already difficult and unwanted life.

It's all about the one who places the call, not the the one that the call is supposidly for.

[RobinHood3000]

Hmm. Strong feelings on the matter?

Vigilante has been rescuing (perhaps not the word you would use) would-be suiciders for some time, in the context of the story. He encounters Tara solely by chance, and only upon seeing her picture does he realize that he knows her -- that she is his neighbor.

I realize I'm biased, but I don't see anything that indicates Vigilante is working for self-glorification, at least not as of the end of the story. He does his work in secret and, even when Tara realizes that he's the one that kept her from killing herself, focuses on Tara's well-being (in spite of herself) rather than lauding his role in her survival.

The caring is also not a pretense -- Vigilante states it explicitly in the first few paragraphs and also behaves on it implicitly with the last sentence. He genuinely cares about Tara, but not in the manner she believes. If anyone bears a pretense, Tara does, for trying to guilt her friend (Vigilante's secret identity) with something she knows is a lie.

However, you do bring up some important ambiguities in my writing. Would it help at all if I gave Tara an invalid or unreasonable rationale for wanting to die?

[Whangdoodle]

“I thought you were my friend.” It’s a lie – she hasn’t considered me a friend for years. She told Vigilante so. Trying to guilt me? Well, if it makes her feel better…

This was not a lie on her part, only the view of the Vigilante.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Whatever reason you give her for wanting to die, it would be from the perspective on one who lacks an understanding of her pain - as only she could know it. You would make it seem trite, Unless your truly willing to try and climb inside the mind of deeply depressed person.

Write whatever you wish, It is yours after all.
Just thought I could add a bit of insite into an area that you were unable to peer into.

I do think that if he realy cared he would not have made a public display of her.... like a side show freak.
Sad that he pretended to care and never bothered to be honest with her or himself.

[RobinHood3000]

Perhaps I need to explain more, but the circumstances I had in my mind were that she told Vigilante on the phone that she hasn't considered her neighbor a friend for years.

By an “invalid” reason, I mean something trivial that clearly doesn’t stem from genuine depression, only melodrama.

I suppose you’re right – giving a specific reason beyond a passing mention would probably be cliché and insincere. And you’re right, I can’t really know what a depressed person is thinking, but I’ve seen what suicide can cause, and misery is high on the list.

More personally, what can you tell me about the goings-on inside one who is depressed? I’d like to learn more, although I don’t want to pressure you into talking about something too personal.

[Whangdoodle]

Sorry Robin, I am not to be treated as a side show freak or a source of amusement.
-Please keep that in mind -
Reservations, on my part, do exist as far as discussing this topic goes, but it is with the understanding that you do not understand, that prompts me to allow this discussion.

I have read quite a bit of your work and I feel strongly that you have an inate talent, a gift that many others would give their right arms (arm):p to posses. With that in mind, I will indulge you. Your lack of understanding when it comes to that sort of charactor may only serve to hold you back.
Not knowing weather or not I can assist you in your learning process, I will give it a try.


___________

What you openly view as "melodrama" (that shows a lack of understanding)
of a depressed persons mind; the "melodrama" as you call it, are at times suffocating and deeply life altering concerns. Reality is a matter of perception and the perceptions of a person caught in the grip of depression are always dark and insurmountable, that is where hopelessness comes from.

Misery is remanant of sucide. If the one commiting the act feels unloved then they have no cause to think that anyone would notice their absence, much less mourn it. If anyone feels misery at the loss of the one who left, it is temporary and will pass much faster than the pain of continuing a life that is percieved as nothing but decades of seemingly endless pain and misery.
In the mind of a depressed person the pain of those left behind is passing, if it ever were to even take place. The unloved have no one to mourn them, it's easy to see why their thoughts rarely extend beyond thier own confused, pointless, loveless, miserable existance.

[RobinHood3000]

I don't mean to offend you, I don't think of you as a source of amusement, and I certainly didn't equate melodrama to depression. If you would read my above post again, I was differentiating between depression and melodrama. I have seen my peers think of themselves as depressed but been only seeking attention. When I said I wanted to learn more about true depression, I was being sincere.

[Whangdoodle]

It would be good to know that you have, at least, some understanding of the differences between Melodrama and Depression.

We all have had the pleasure/displeasure of knowing the sort of people that make an undue fuss over not having the complete attention of their current cohorts, and or the financial status that they wrongfully think that they are entitled too. These are the Drama queens who pitch a fit over a broken nail or not having the matching purse to compliment her shoes. That Is Not depression, that is spoiled child who at some point learned that tears will get them their way, If denied their request *gasp* they then push themselves to the horifficaly drastic point of curling up on the sofa and rocking with a pillow between their arms.
Moaning....."Nobody loves me 'cause I can't get my way."

They are shallow irratants and I pay them no mind.

Now that you (hopefully) have a clear idea of what I consider to be a Drama Queen, I will wait to see if we are in aggreance before moving on.


Also, do you wish to have this conversation here?

[RobinHood3000]

Agreed -- although the person I had in mind was a girl who thought her ordeals were worse than everyone else's (they weren't, not by a far sight) and worried her friends to death with open discussion on cutting and suicide. Although I didn't have her in mind when I wrote my story, perhaps the scenario would be more palatable if Tara were more like her and less ambiguous.

Perhaps a new thread in the philosophical forum, if there isn't one on the subject already.

[Vada Dagon]

Very Good!
I liked that it wasn't all explained from the beginning and you got to find out that Vigilante was her best friend (although not the other way around).

Very nice dialog. By nice I mean it felt real instead of forced or overtly intelligent.

:thumbs_up :thumbs_up

IMO it's good enough to publish.

[Vada Dagon]

Agreed -- although the person I had in mind was a girl who thought her ordeals were worse than everyone else's (they weren't, not by a far sight) and worried her friends to death with open discussion on cutting and suicide. Although I didn't have her in mind when I wrote my story, perhaps the scenario would be more palatable if Tara were more like her and less ambiguous.

Perhaps a new thread in the philosophical forum, if there isn't one on the subject already.

I would disagree. I think that making her less ambigous would also make the read less interesting.

[Vedrana]

I liked this story. It did confuse me a little to begin with, but it made more sense as it continued, and that is what makes you want to read it to the end. Well done!

[Vada Dagon]

I'm Sorry for interjecting - actually I retract that, I'm not sorry because if I were I wouldn't be posting.

I believe you are incorrect on your statement below. Granted it is your opinion but, however yours it may be it still doesn't make it right.


Tara had already decided that her life had no value and was not worth having. Why should she endure more pain in order to perpetuate the already unwanted life?
I'm sure, and this is the voice of experience, that all her judgments beyond that day would be baised on her already self destructive ways. Judgements that would only lead to a series of unfortunate events, as she sees herself as not being worth fighting for.

Simply because someone has assessed their own life and deemed it to be worthless or too painful to live does not make it true. What am I saying? I suppose you know all too well what is the meaning behind my statement. However, I'll explain further because I do not want to assume everyone will understand.

First of all if there is someone who is truly depressed there are several reasons for the source of that depression. As far as this character is concerned it is an un-founded depression because she would rather die than be brave enough to live and break up with her boyfriend.

With that in mind depression can stem from either an hormonal imbalance, to loss or neurological reasons. To say that if a person which experiences a hormonal depression and believes its life to be not worth living should not be interfered with because of their own decision, is just plain silly. I'm not talking about someone who is terminally ill and the pain can cause a type of depression which I would support on assisted suicide. Morality has nothing to do with allowing people to die for the right reasons or wrong reasons.
Most people will tell you suicide is wrong because life is precious. I would disagree with that statement. Life is not precious, not at least how it is used in that statement. If life were precious then we would consider all life precious, but instead we only consider sentient life precious and only those we seem to believe good engouh to save.




It's not a far stretch to think that even though a phone call was made to "save her life" that she would continue to see no reason to better it or even find the slighest hint of anything in her that could be seen as a redeaming quaility. Trash is Trash, and one considering suicide sees themselves as just that.
I am un-sure how familiar you are with this topic but it is not always true. I think you are trying to find a voice in this forum for some reason that escapes me or you have convinced yourself that you hold some knowledge which no one else is capable of holding.




The fact that a "friend" of hers put on a false persona in order to obtain her deeper thoughts under pretence of caring, is a tremendous stab in the back by one who shoud have been 'trustworthy'. Had he been a real friend, he would have pushed aside all of the self glorifying cleverness that was nothing but a tool to help himself to feel better about his own greatness. Look back at your story and see how much attention you paid the Mighty cleverness and pride in trickery that your main charactor posseses.
I would call that a True friend. Someone that is willing to sacrifice a friendship for a friend in order to ensure their safety. I never got the feeling that the Vigilante ever felt better about how he had made her feel, except maybe that he saved her from a fate that would not have solved her problems.



No, attention was paid to how the subversive act by one who considered himself to be her friend, effected her view of what a friend is capable of.
Deception...all for the self glorification of the "vigilante".
LOL! I am sorry but I believe you must be delusional in your point of view or desire to be glorified by this posting. He never deceives her as a friend but instead she deceives him into believing they are still friends when she no longer considers him a friend. Besides, he loves her more than a friend. Although, not stated I believe the implication is that he loves her and would like to be with her but enjoys the friendship they share and does not wish to ruin that friendship. Even though the friendship is one sided.




The phone call was not to help the girl who was about to free herself from an existance of pain, it was all about the moral obligation of the one who knew what she was about to do, and how that phone call would make him feel better about himself. It had nothing to do with her. If it did, he would not have made a public display of her pain, Just so he can stand back and say with his arms wide "I Saved Her, See How Great and Clever I Am".
Again this is a very shallow perception of the story and of life overall.




She will have to learn to tolerate the Objecting looks from all who know about her attempted act and that includes not only family, but medical and law enforcement officials who would be made aware of her action each time they run her name through their little computers. You are treated with condecention when labled as "depressed", you can actualy see the change in expression when the read it on the computer screen.

Oh Yess (scarcasm) I can realy see how his phone call improved an already difficult and unwanted life.

It's all about the one who places the call, not the the one that the call is supposidly for.
On the one had you put forth how horrible depression is and how the decision is hers to make. I would argue that while on depression people can do things they don't understand clearly or see clearly due to their depression. If the biggest problem she has to deal with is the 'Objecting looks' and the 'condecention' as you put it then I have to say that I do not feel sorry for her. Perhaps you should perform your own study at facilities (perhaps volunteer) and see the results when folks recuperate from depression. In your opinion Brookshield should have been allowed to kill her little girl when she was going through her post-partum depression because she had made the decision that it would be easier to eliminate the child than work through her depression.

I truly feel sorry for you because you not only not understand the story and characters but what life is all about. Misery doesn't end with death and you would be surprised if you were to believe that.

This was a great story of a troubled girl who was going to make a bad choice and someone who considered her as more than a friend stepped out his own character and helped her to live another day to perhaps gain some maturity to see that death was not her solution and that it would have never solved any of her problems. However, the story is good because although it is a 'nice' ending we truly don't know how it ends.

[RobinHood3000]

Thanks to Vedrana and Vada Dagon for your input, both of you. Dialogue, I'm told, is my strong point, so thanks for noticing. I do rather like Tara as she is in the story -- right now, it's one vote for and against for changing her, so I'll have to see what others think and say about it. I'm also rather liked the non-linear format, so thanks for :thumbs_up-ing me on that, too.

[Vada Dagon]

You deserve it. It is a very nicely told story.

[SleepyWitch]

I totally disagree with Whangdoodle!
I don't think the guy is in it for the self-glorification.


. It’s hers; I haven’t cried in years. It’s an unwritten rule of hero work, death of a sidekick or mentor being the only excuse.
....
Thus far, all of the targets I’ve seen – so called to keep their sob stories from swaying me...

The unwritten-rule writers will pardon me this once. I need a good cry.

I think these quotes show that he actually doesn't want to be a superhero and maybe is too young or whatever to have all this responsibility. But he suppresses his feelings and imposes those rules of hero work on himself in order to be able to do his 'job'.

[Whangdoodle]

Dear Boy Next Door:

I have live through a simular situation and having looked back at my life from that day on, and the results of his/your actions; motivated by his/your wants and desires.. I hate him for what he did. Life has been nothing but one hell after another since then.

Life now is even harder now than it was then.

Since the imposing his will on me, I have known the loss of far too many things, My child, my livelyhood, my ability to love and the greatest loss of all - Hope.
Through the years, after that day, I have continued to try and destroy myself but at a much slower rate.

Life is pointless, we are only born to die.

My mind was made up, Then he made me promise never to do it. I toss away that promise dear girl, why should I have to endure a pointless life,
Just so you can sleep at night?
Did you sleep well after sitting at the head of the table and like a general in his glory and orchestrated the kidnapping of my daughter?
and YOu think your better than me, I would rather be mental ill, than reguard all life as my playthings.

The point I was trying to make is that If you do not understand depression, you don't have the right to be toying/Taunting one who is forced to live with it. How else could you expect the vilgilante to not accidently send his subject spiraling off in the undesired direction, if he lacks in understanding of It, it could very easly happen! -and it has.

When one who is truly depressed and is forced to live with it, It only gets increasingly worse. Take drugs you say? Well, I haven't had health insurance in over three years and although I have applied I have continuasly been denied. Besides, Prescription drugs are no better than illegal drugs or drink; as soon as you stop taking them the problem ( the mind ) is still there.

Suicide is much like cutting your hair. When you no longer want the dead portion of yourself, just remove it.

I may or may not respond to the taunts of "He who is clueless about depression, and knows only what he was told to know and therefore holds it up in front of him like a shield"
Not knowing weather or not I will take time for that, I will quickly say this:

Sweety, I have been in institutions just like you were talking about and any human in their right mind or not, will say anything in order to get that doctor to sign on the dotted line and release you from what is nothing more than a dehumanizing drug induced prison. They control your mind with drugs and abuse you body in whatever way they please. - They do not help, they are there to make money, that is all.

And how could you equate suicide to the murder of an infant!
If you have to go off topic to try and make a point,
then your not really making one.

I am tired of watching the originator of all my problems try to pat himself on the back using multiple screen names. I doubt that I will be posting again, or even returning to the internet.

This is how I have been forcing myself to speak with the, all too hostle outside world, but the things I read here (made only worse by the knowledge that the troll who did this to me, has been here all along) the things I watch him say, are making my life harder, thankfully the destruction continues.

You see, anyone who has to live with mental illness lives in a very frightning world, one that you could not even begin to comprehend. Behind every door window, phone call, E-mail...are suspisions of someone trying to hurt me.
I live in a fear filled world, Although I have no plans of killing myself at this time, everywhere I look I see people running around making sure that I am unable to put back together any sort of fruitfull life. They take it away, as soon as they see progress. like the two computers they filled with destructive little nasties, and the almost sadistic four day destruction of my car. You dear hero, slashed my tires - waited two days, put cola in the gas tank- waited another day, Smashed my windows and lights and just to be sure that I got the message of how hated I am, pissed in my drivers seat.

You may say that I've contridicted myself, but in the paranoid mind of one who is stedaly lossing the battle of "The Facade of Functioning" It all makes perfect sence. The world is a frightening place.

Proud of you actions? I bet you are.


Sincerely,
The one you should have let die.

[SleepyWitch]

I respect your views on suicide, mental illness etc, Whang,
but I don't think your comments apply to Robin's story at all. I don't think the girl's been institutionalized or suffers from any serious mental illness.
I think she's just a teenager or young woman who is overreacting, like many teenagers do.

I mean, most teeenagers feel like committing suicide at one time or another, especially when their bf/gf broke up with them or they have a crush on someone who doesn't like them or if things go wrong in their relationships. But if you let all of them kill themselves, there'd be hardly any kids left.

I do think your arguments have a point and they may be very true about certain groups of people, but they are just totally off the point when it comes to Robin's story, in my humble opinion. If you read the story closely, you will notice that the girl isn't sure she wants to go through with it at all, so you can hardly see it as a conscious decision made by a free individual who was considering all the consequences of her actions.

[Whangdoodle]

Of course they'll lock her up, tell her she's stupid, tell her everything demeaning and let her know that she has no value because she sees the world differently.
By the time the jailers let her out she will be even more "messed Up", and with the knowledge that a "friend" did that to her, will only alter any possability of a healty trusting/loving relationship with anyone.

That phone call, ended any chance of her living a productive life. He says he was trying to help her, but he was not. Thanks to the fact that he was clueless of just how his actions would only make life harder for her.
He acted on morals, not a consern for her well being.
That phone call / betrail was the worst thing he could have done.

she wanted to end her life.
he wanted to prolong it and make it harder.

With friends like that............

[Whangdoodle]

His story was nothing more than his views of the situation.


You are missing the point, but then perhaps you are just another one of his alter egos trying to justify your actions.

[RobinHood3000]

I beg to differ -- SleepyWitch, you WILL find, is entirely distinct from me. That she agrees with me is no reason to suspect foul play, Whangdoodle.

Please...if you truly read my story with an open mind, you would see that

a) Vigilante only challenges those who are unsure about suicide,
b) Tara was not genuinely depressed, and
c) Doing damage to her car is the farthest thing from his mind.

In case you were wondering, I have my own strong feelings about suicide, but I fear they would only offend you.

[SleepyWitch]

yep, in fact I'm so distinct from Robin I didn't even vote for his story in the short story competition.
All I'm saying is, read the story first before you rant. Your criticism is very general whereas this is a particular story and lots of the things you said just don't apply to it.

"That phone call, ended any chance of her living a productive life"
???? I thought you were in favour of her committing suicide if that's what she wants? How can she both die and live a productive life? Plus, by your arguments living a productive life doesn't seem to be an option for people like her at all.

"By the time the jailers let her out she will be even more "messed Up", and with the knowledge that a "friend" did that to her, will only alter any possability of a healty trusting/loving relationship with anyone."

She doesn't regard the guy as a friend, so there is no betrayal.
What jailers? Who says she'll be locked up? That's not what happens in the story and it's not what happens in real life either! There was a girl at my school who slit her wrists, but her mum found her. So she went to hospital and stayed there to recover. Afterwards she returned to school. Nobody ever thought of locking her up in prison or a clinic, even though the whole school knew she attempted suicide.

[Whangdoodle]

I did admit to the contradiction, clearly.

Leading a productive life is what is expected and what many think is a way to cure depression. "Fake it till you make it".

The girl in your school was lucky. I had been considered a resident/inmate of mental "hospitals" three times - not a single one of them helped in any way. perhaps her insurance was not viewed as good enough to milk long term.


No, she may not have reguared the V as a friend but he saw her as one, and for that reason alone he should have avoided the humiliation that comes along with the sirens and gawking neighbors. I've already mentioned the other little lovlies, no need to go there again.

Yes, I have exceedingly strong views on the topic. How could I not.

Also, You stated the she was not really depressed. She would not have gone through with it.
So all the ruckus he created was pointless, yet highly damaging to the subject. He did for no reason other than to exorsize his power over her.
The story just dosent add up. (enjoyable as it was)

People don't kill themselves if they are not depressed.

I've a horrible habit of going to deeply into what I read (understatement) and at times it affects me detromentaly As witnessed here. Obvouisly it offended some.
I was not insulting your work Robin only pointing out how it could have been more deeply psycholigical had you decided to write her as a truly depressed person. The confusion that comes with that condition, can set off a series of paradoxes and contradicting twists and turns.
That would be a greater achievement for V, showing how to navigate a false reality and becoming a beacon for lost lives.
You have a short story that can and has struck a nerve in people, views on the topic are so vastly different, yet equaly strong.

You may not think that my view is valid, (another understatement) but that is because you've not learned to, (and aggrement with it is not necessary), You've not learned to allow your mind to understand the path of how another could come that way of thinking.
You have the talent to write of any topic, but would set yourself apart even further from all the others should you develop a willingness to explore perspectives -that you do not have to agree with-, But would then become capable of writing from.
Most writers will never go there, due to their own hangups, but that is exactly where you need to go.

[SleepyWitch]

"he should have avoided the humiliation that comes along with the sirens and gawking neighbors."

what's a few gawking neighbours as compared to ending one's life when it's just about begun? Neighbours will gawk at anything, e.g. people mowing their lawn in shorts, people not mowing their lawn, people leaving their house or coming back from work/school, just people in general.
If this girl really is so special because she sees the world differently, as you said, why should she care about neighbours?

In my limited experience, silly teenagers will try to kill themselves over any old soppy issue, even if they are not truly depressed in a clinical sense of the word. But if they survive some of them are glad it didn't work and live happily ever after.
--> Robin, is the girl a teenager/ young adult or is she grown-up?

To be honest, I'm not sure that every single person who commits suicide does so because they are so unique and special. I'm sure some suicidal people have a unique or interesting perspective on things but that doesn't mean that anyone who attemps suicide is automatically a genius/rebel/great philosopher etc.

blah, this is getting boring :(

[Whangdoodle]

I never said anything about being special or unique or anything like that,
you did.


I am bored with this as well. If an understanding is lacked and apathy/empathy is never developed, charactor creation is reduced to a two dementional play dough thingy-ma-bob.
Interesting, for the a moment But thats about all.

Ever notice how much shelf space dypers take up in a pharmacy?
There's got to be a way to condense them...........

[RobinHood3000]

Tara is a young teenage girl – I apologize if that was unclear.

Plenty of melodramatic teenagers kill themselves over reasons far more trivial than depression. A Japanese girl threw herself in front of a subway when Jackie Chan announced his engagement, to pose one extreme example.

I would be happy to learn more about the attitudes of which you speak, but as we’ve discussed, there are reasons why it may be best for you not to give it.

[Whangdoodle]

Clearly stated, when we began to talk about this topic, were the words
" I am not to be treated as a side show freak or source of amusement"
An Honest give and take of information is what was expected. The result, however, was nothing short of a series of not even slightly masked insults.

"respect the beliefs of others" - Even when you don't agree with them, particulary, when you dont agree with them.
That is the point of those five words; Is it not?

[RobinHood3000]

And as I’ve told you, I am not treating you as a freak show. How am I to learn more about the paradigm of one depressed if, whenever I ask for it, it is taken as an insult?

[mtpspur]

Whangdoodle-- If I may interject here. I was roaming the forum and spotted Vigilante and Robinhood 3000 together in one posting and thought it might be comicbook related--a hobby of mine and I generally respect and am amused by him.

Unfortunately my computer would not bring up his story--not sure if it's my fault or not--I still can't figure out the avatar instructions.

So instead I decided to read the posts--all of them for a change. Ironically and to my horror the subject of suicide had come up again. I had shared/grumped at Twisted Sister elsewhere on the topic because her (I believe innocent) question set off a huge nerve and (again) brought back memories I keep hitting over the head with baseball bats just yesterday and thought it was out of my system and the beast clubbed back in its cage.

Long story short--in no way do I believe Robinhood has ever treated your posts with anything but an attempt to understand your view and share his in an agreeable manner. I believe he and a few others on the forums are too respectful of this forum and the viewers to be otherwise then mature (yes even if not all his jokes are funny--mine rarely are) and thought out with a view to uplifting the reader.

Me on the other hand--I mood swing with the best of them and one of the few solaces I received from your drama queen description is that you and I disagree on what a drama queen is. I will rant and hissy fit on the topic of vehicular homicide on a military installation and its lack of relevance to the host state. Will also rant about State Farm Insurance adjustors and their worldview on fair compensation. But for the most part my rants are trivial and very unimportant. Big things I handle better. Those I can undrstand and handle often badly--sometimes not.

Off hand in my 55 years of grace known only to God why I have the unpleasant experience of being attached to several suicide attempts. Two were close attachments--three others I was on the perimeter. One I will not discuss and one I will. I had a beloved aunt who everyone in the family actually loved. If you knew my family background this in itself would be amazing. Only problem is that my aunt had ALWAYS been shielded from any unpleasantness--at all. Anyhoo--my cousin was caught in an oven fire that went horribly out of control and ended up in hospital with 90% of his body burned. My aunt went into hysterics and was put to bed with sleeping pills--she never woke up. 37 years later and I still don't know if it was an accident ot not and no one in my 'close-knit' family has ever discusssed it. The drama queen part of me will share this--I was 'lucky' enough to be allowed to visit at the hospital and be there when my cousin asked where his mother (my aunt) was and I will never forget what he was told--"Oh you know how she about hospitals." My cousin did indeed and that seemed to satisfy him. He was actually getting better couple weeks later when pneumonia set in. Two funerals--one sad summer.

So I know a little about depression. I know nothing about your depression and won't pretend to. I just know it sucks. But I believe where there is life it's by the grace and patience of God and cliche though it may seem the sun will rise.

Try to be kinder to yourself--don't let the wookie win --he's not worth it. If this helps at all the one's doing the condescending looks are never the ones who care why ;if you can--let it go. The fear of man bringeth a snare per the Bible and the chains are tight.

Blessings and comforts to you. And you are not a freak--she's in Kentucky working on ruining her second marriage.

[RobinHood3000]

“But... I mean… it’s just…why?” I ask.
A sigh. “Boredom.”
A pause. “…boredom? I don’t understand.”
“There’s nothing to understand. I’m bored with life. That’s all.”
“…you couldn’t take up a hobby like everyone else?” Levity. A gamble.
“Don’t be stupid.” I lose. “I’m serious here.”
Another pause, for tact’s sake. “Don’t we matter to you?”
“We, who? I have as many friends as I have noses, and you’re it. And don’t you dare say it…”
“Say what?” Innocence on the surface, a double entendre about blowing her nose popping into my teenage head. I keep it to myself, but not without snickering. Just a little. “Don’t I matter to you?”
“You do, it’s just…”
“Just what??” I press her for an answer. Another risk.
“…I… I don’t…” It pays off. She’s faltering. But it’s not the endgame just yet. “It’s not enough purpose for me.”
“You won’t miss me?” I pursue the pin.
“…no.” The sound of a swallowed tear. It’s hers; I haven’t cried in years. It’s an unwritten rule of hero work, death of a sidekick or mentor being the only excuse. “I… I have to go,” she says. Not a sentence I like the sound of.
“Okay… bye.” She hangs up. No farewell. I take the tissue paper off the receiver – makes my voice raspier – and take another coin from the pile of quarters at hand. Caller ID has necessitated the use of a pay phone as of late.

A few years ago, I began my subterfuge, my work. Any Internet user who searches for “suicide forums” will come up with any number of people and organizations who offer emotional life support. Good for them. Somewhat lower in profile are the places where suicide is discussed, aided, and in some cases, executed. I’m a member of several such places. I found Tara in one of them.
In virtually any forum with decent-sized membership, there are dozens of people who join but never post. No one ever notices one more. I encountered her about six months ago. “Umm… what does it feel like??” were her first words, (spelled correctly, anyway). For all the people there who were sure about themselves (or rather, the lack of themselves), she evidently wasn’t one. Her uncertainty prompted my response. My chosen username, “Vigilante,” probably didn’t register as anything more than a melodramatic heroic sentiment – more or less the case. When I took up this mantle, it was as much about glory as rescue. That changed as soon as I found Tara.
“What’s the matter?” was all I had to ask for her to perceive my trust. Sympathy is powerful. Thus far, all of the targets I’ve seen – so called to keep their sob stories from swaying me – have believed that no one cares about them. So I tell them I care. I do. Especially for Tara. More than she knows.

The ideal target is both unsure of their will to die and naïve in safe use of the Internet. Tara was ideal. Her name and her photograph were in her profile outright, as was her home city. She also had a weblog – she at least had the presence of mind not to mention it to me, but it wasn’t difficult to find. That gave me her school, her friends. Photographs of her house, inside and out, including her address. The pawns were behind me.
Girls are comforted by the sound of my voice, even over the phone. For guys, I skip over the phone step and go directly to the last resort. Hearing another guy’s voice, especially one unusually deep for its age, tends to make them defensive. They’re usually harder to reason with, besides, and by the time I get to them, many of them have already made up their minds. At any rate, Tara found it soothing, although for her, I’d had to alter it somewhat. I called her every day after I convinced her to offer her phone number, to keep a tab on her. Today was maybe halfway into the third month. I called her as usual.
“Hey, Tara, it’s Vig. Things any better?”
“No,” she says. She emits something that sounds like a cross between a scoff and a snort. Something derisive. She doesn’t mean it – derision is not in her blood. At least, it wasn’t before. “Gary’s still being a jerk.” Strange. I’d told her to dump him.
“We’ve been over this.”
“I know, but still…” The derision is gone. Just a façade. Good.
“...still what? You don’t have to date him.”
“But it’d be so much simpler if—“
“No. No, it wouldn’t. Suicide is not for fixable situations. Ask anyone on the Forums, they’ll tell you the same.” Not entirely true, but at this point, she trusts me a great deal more than she trusts them. A long, long silence. My eyelids fall as my shoulder leans against the side of the booth. I envision in my mind, over and over, the mantra I don’t dare whisper, lest she hear: “Don’t say goodbye…”
“I wanna say goodbye.” Sudden. Resolved.
“…what?”
“I’m going to do it.”
“But… I mean… it’s just… why?” I ask.

After Tara hung up on me, I turned to my last resort. The logical intermediary step (subtle hints to a third party) didn’t work, and I’d stopped using them a long time ago. I used to send postcards to the guardians (most targets had lost one or more parents by the time I found them) with “DON’T LET SO-AND-SO DO IT” scrawled in red marker across it. More often than not, they’d sit down with the target and deliver a lecture on abstinence and/or safe contraceptive use. Not the effect I was going for, and often made things worse. Nowadays, I called in the cavalry, instead.
“Hello… emergency?” Checkmate.

As I returned home on my bicycle, a convoy of flashing lights parked in my neighbor’s driveway assaulted my eyes. The paramedics were carrying a young woman on a stretcher out of the house, her arms strapped down tight. Getting closer, I could see her right index finger twitching, as if the revolver was still in her hand. That was unusual – the average girl opts for poison. She prefers the passivity, the lack of mess. Like the maid or relative who finds her is going to be happy they don’t have to wipe up anything. Then again, I’d known Tara for quite some time. Suffice it to say that having known her so many years, I could easily see her temperament telling her to perform a certain form of drastic brain surgery.
“Let me go!! Let me go!!” Her shrieking did for my ears what the ambulance lights had done for my eyes, although the intermittent sobs were sucking away her energy for screaming.
I dash up. “Tara!! What happened??” I ask her, no matter how obvious the answer.
“Suicide attempt,” interjects a nearby sergeant, a little curtly.
“I know!” I snap. A slip. I freeze as my skin starts pickling.
Tara’s gaze turns my way. Bewilderment and wonderment in the depths of her eyes. “It was you.” I nod, my eyes lowered. “How did you know?” she asks. I thought the answer would be obvious. Hadn’t she guessed? Maybe not… perhaps not… apparently not. The Vigilante lives another day.
“…I could tell,” I say.
“That obvious?”
“Well… it wasn’t easy, if it helps any.” My eyes are to the ground, but I hear her swallow another tear.
“I thought you were my friend.” It’s a lie – she hasn’t considered me a friend for years. She told Vigilante so. Trying to guilt me? Well, if it makes her feel better…
“I… I’m sorry.” She smirks in victory. That’s fine with me – she’s the one strapped to a gurney. They wheel her one way. I roll my bike the other. I watch my childhood friend, her secrets uncovered, depart the neighborhood. Better the neighborhood than the mortal coil, I suppose, but the thought doesn’t help much.
I used to have the luxury of not knowing my target. I assume seeing a familiar face on my monitor shocked me aloof. Lucky for Tara it did. Otherwise, I probably would have become one of those utterly unhelpful friends who treads too carefully, for too long. The unwritten-rule writers will pardon me this once. I need a good cry. For the benefit of mtspur, the text of "The Vigilante's Gambit."

My condolences to you with the tragedy of your aunt and cousin. It seems to me to be a story so many bad things happen without it being anyone's fault.

[mtpspur]

Thank you Robin. It had been awhile since I thought of my aunt and cousin. I had another person in mind then that experience came to the forefront of the brain cells.

I really liked your story. The dialogue felt real to me and I like first person narrative ala Dashiell Hammett in Continental Op stories or Quiller/Matt Helm novels.

You have a knack and a talent for giving the reader just enough to pull them along. The less is more style. I think I always thought my aunt overdosed because that was my mother's method which did not succeed and never reoccured but teenage summers were not fun. All my tragedies or participation in them seem to be during the good weather.

Keep practicing. I want to tell people I knew him when.

[SleepyWitch]

Long story short--in no way do I believe Robinhood has ever treated your posts with anything but an attempt to understand your view and share his in an agreeable manner.

yeah, please don't blame SleepyWitche's rudeness on Robin Whangdoodle.

[mtpspur]

Sleepywitch I'm not sure if you think I thought YOUwere being rude but I wish to assure you the thought was never there. I was attempting to defend Robin as the focus of the discussion from which his short story has sprung off from. If anyone was rude at all it was probably me.

[SleepyWitch]

hehe, nope I didn't think you were saying I was rude, mt :)
I was talking to Whangdoodle and your quote came in handy

[mtpspur]

To Sleepywitch--thanks--these forums are slowly turning me from a grouch to a worry-wart. I need to chill out. The drama queen needs a beating --BADLY.

[toni]

You are a good writer, Robin. :lol: That story's got me hooked! :nod: I couldn't stop reading it.:lol: You're lucky, you've got a writing style that's unique- truly your own.. Makes me wanna read some more! :thumbs_up

[RobinHood3000]

Haha, thanks. If you're at all interested, I have at least three other stories up here in the General Writing section; I'd love if you could take a look.

[toni]

Okidoki..Im off to take a look now..:)

[toni]

*pouts* Sorry, Robin, I can't seem to hunt down your other stories in the General Writing thread...
posting a link seems like a good idea.... :)

[RobinHood3000]

Done (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18933), done (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18216), and done (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17702), in reverse chronological order.

[Pendragon]

Robin, my brother, the story is good. Very good. It needs a little background. Why was Vig after Tara? What was the secret they shared? Hints come through but they could lead in a million misdirections. You need to do minor rewrites, nothing major is wrong. You will be a great writer one day, probably long before you reach my age! :D

[Virgil]

Robin, my brother, the story is good. Very good. It needs a little background. Why was Vig after Tara? What was the secret they shared? Hints come through but they could lead in a million misdirections. You need to do minor rewrites, nothing major is wrong. You will be a great writer one day, probably long before you reach my age! :D

Just re-read if for you Robin and I think Pen is correct. The questions that were brought up by others in the thread I think all stem from the question as to why Vig is so secretive. It's an open hole that confuses and takes the story out of reality, at least without any good rationale.

But let me say that your first two sections were outstanding. It drew me in like a magnet and you did it so economically.

You asked if I could proof read, well, I didn't find anything incorrect, but I admit i'm not really good at proof reading.