What do you know about Arabian world?

[miss dream]

hi guys:)
i have written this thread not because that im from Arabian world
but i want to know ur background about that world
now
inform me what is your view about that world ?
what is your opinion about its people ? kind or kindless cooperative or not
modest or arrogant generous or what and so and so

also if you have any dabate with any person from that world tell us it even if it is good or bad and we will discuss it together
plz respond me truly
:thumbs_up

[mtpspur]

Back in 1990 at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio while assigned to the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) (as a lowly paer pusher mind you) our Commandant invited the military personnel to a an address given by one of the Princes of Saudi Arabia. While finding him a personable entertaining speaker he made one statement that lived with me to this day--If the USA will not sell us weapons we'll buy from the Russians. (prior to that my dealings with Saudi Arabia (from 1981 to 1985) were sending Tanker crews from Grand Forks AFB ND to stay 2 or 3 months at Riyah (sp?). Very hot over there. Any hoo--impression I have received from the Powers that Be there we are as good as our money can buy. Make of this what you will.

[Jtolj]

There is nothing wrong with the Arabs, nor moderate countries like... Kuwait?, but the world itself is screwed up, with great violence, radical religious idealogy, and governments that are not in sync with western values (as in freedom and equality). I'm sure, it's okay if you are rich, but otherwise, I don't see it as that great a place as what I see, unless you're Muslim, and even then.

When I think of Arabia, though, I always think of filthy rich men.

[cuppajoe_9]

...the world itself is screwed up, with great violence, radical religious idealogy, and governments that are not in sync with western values (as in freedom and equality)."Western" values? The 'west' did not invent freedom, friend.

[Pensive]

Living in Arabian countries would be my last choice. No offense to the forum members we are having from there, but its a matter of opinions/choices.

And about people, there are always exceptions so I guess that many good people also reside in there as well. We have some dedicated members over here from Saudi Arabia and other Arabian countries.

[Turk]

Many Arabian countries governing by kings and sheiks. It's something supported by western countries. Because those kings and sheiks doesn't have any knowledge about anything. They just thinking themselves, like despot feodals of mid-ages. Since kings and sheiks just thinks their personal benefits their countries and people still poor (no equality in economics). There's a lot to say. This may seem unrelated but i always thought that, if they'd want they even make a more green Arabia for example, since Hz. Muhammed said "If you are going to plant a tree, even if you'd know there's one minute to apocalypse, plant it". They are completley shameless and selfish. Spending millions of dollars to spend one night with famous models and actresses.

And if you think governments of west doesn't like those kingdoms you are wrong. Suud kingdom and others established with support of British Empire. And Suudi Arabia spending billions of dollars to buy guns from western companies and we know that; heart of American industry is war industry. I don't know what they will do with those 21. century guns in the middle of desert, while still there's many Arabian people living like in 15. century. I hope someday opposotion and true Muslims take governments and kick all those sheiks and kings out of country and Arabs has a better government.

[vheissu]

I find that it's a really big and complicated matter to just ask what we know about the Arabian world. There are so many countries that belong to it, that it's wrong (in my opinion) to generalize any views or opinions.
The fact that, as Turk says, arabian governments buy weaponry (and spend billions on it) while the majority of the population could definetely use all that money for better purposes is a sad state that is going to take many years to change. You might think that it's suspicious, dangerous and scary that something like that is actually happening. But then again, think about who gave them the right to do it.
Again as Turk says, about people living in really bad conditions which are not up to par with (only part of) the rest of the world is something that will only chance with time and determination.
What is more important in my opinion is not to judge such a delicate matter so easily and without a good understanding of what really is the truth. Arab countries are similar with the rest of the world in that they have a culture, religion, traditions, history.....and people who actually live there (whether they like it or not) and are part of that world. Most of them, I believe, would like to change some aspects of their country. But that's really up to them: the western's world (mainly the US, but the rest are not stopping them are they??) grand plan to "bring freedom and democracy" will only complicate matters more, not make them better. Something which is already happening!

[Jtolj]

"Western" values? The 'west' did not invent freedom, friend.

You know what I mean, and last time I checked freedom as we know it today was invented in America.

[thevintagepiper]

Ten years ago I lived in Jordan for ten years. I was really young, but I liked it. Then for a long time we lived in America, but in the city where the highest concentration of Arab people were. Now I live in Dubai, the United Arab Emirates. I love it like crazy!
Arab people are very hospitable and kind. Although their religion is not a peaceful one, they are a peaceful people.
Dubai is less Arab than Dearborn, Michigan, however ;)

[kilted exile]

You know what I mean, and last time I checked freedom as we know it today was invented in America.

Hahahahahaha. Seriously, do you have any idea about the world outside of your precious america at all?

[Shalot]

Is Jtolj from America?

[miss tenderness]

When I think of Arabia, though, I always think of filthy rich men.

this what Holyood is trying to convince you about Arabs men! I'm telling you,go to the Arab world and see what are the men like! they even do not have sexual relations befor marriage,do you know that?? and it's not because they can't ,nah, because their religion prohibit it if there is no legal relation between a man and a woman.they willingly follow their religions orders(I'm talking about the majority and what's common).I just want you to know that most whom have been misguided about the Arabs ,have truely seen the covered truth once they go and see how it's like in there.

[Virgil]

The only Arabic person I know is Miss Tenderness right here on lit net, and I find her one of the nicest, warmest persons around. Yes, I know there are these terrorist thugs that come from many parts of the world, not just Saudia Arabia, but I imagine they are the nut balls that every country has, not the typical. (However those nut balls do cause a lot of problems, I'm not going to minimize that.) I imagine most people in Saudia Arabia to be as Miss T.

I work with several Muslims, and I'm friendly with them all, but I don't think any are Arabic. Are Palistians and Jordaneans Arabic, I don't know? They nonetheless are fine fellows and completely unlike the terrorists mentality. My boss's boss, very high up in the company, is a Muslim from India, and has looked out for my career, as well as the career of other non-muslims. In fact his current favorite is a jewish fellow. Perhaps here in the United States we handle cultural diversity much better than most places in the world, at least from what I read.

To those who regret the Arabic countries spending money on military things, did you ever think they do because they need to? They live in a pretty dangerous neighborhood. They have threats from all sorts of countries. If you don't live there, how do you know what they need?

To those who question whether the United States is the oldest democracy, name a country who established a democracy prior to 1776. Unless you're counting Athens in the 5th century BC or the Roman Republic 4th to 1st century BC, I don't believe there are any. As far as I know, I know no one to have declared the following prior to Thomas Jefferson, writing for the new, free nation:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
As far as I know, that is the first time anyone has ever, even in ancient Greece and Rome, ever declared that man is endowed by God to be free as a natural right.

[miss tenderness]

The only Arabic person I know is Miss Tenderness right here on lit net, and I find her one of the nicest, warmest persons around. .

:blush: thanks,Virg.Adiyoussef is an Arab too.

Yes, I know there are these terrorist thugs that come from many parts of the world, not just Saudia Arabia, but I imagine they are the nut balls that every country has, not the typical. (However those nut balls do cause a lot of problems, I'm not going to minimize that.) I imagine most people in Saudia Arabia to be as Miss T. .
I do not think that my countery is a place fom which the terrorism spread!at all, if u look closely into our internal affairs>>the whole socity is against those people who tried to bomb one time or two. Most of whom are arrested or killed. Most of the Saudi people are welcoming ,loving and so open to others. I myyself have a plenty of American friends in here who live more than10 years in here(2 of them). I have one who works in the TV and swears that he can't raise his childern in anyother place except Saudi Arabia. The bad thing is that ,there is a huge,and I mean this word,huge attack to my countery in the Western media and huge,huge misconceptions intended to cover people's mind. I'm not saying this coz it's my countery. I live here and see how it is the life here and it saddens me the way they wrongly picturize the simple people here who hate people to be hurt even by words,so how about bombing and other acts!however ,those people are pissed off coz of the outer interferance with their internal issues.
off topic: one of my American friends tells me that when she arrived here ,she thought that we live in tent and rides camels for transportation:lol: she was actually surprised to see the whole big cities and the fine villas ,modern cars and the advanced technology used.She thought that every Saudi has a well of Patrol in his yard:D told her"wish too:lol: "I've never seen that patrol! most people here,majority,are average are middle class.


I work with several Muslims, and I'm friendly with them all, but I don't think any are Arabic. Are Palistians and Jordaneans Arabic, I don't know? They nonetheless are fine fellows and completely unlike the terrorists mentality. My boss's boss, very high up in the company, is a Muslim from India, and has looked out for my career, as well as the career of other non-muslims. In fact his current favorite is a jewish fellow. Perhaps here in the United States we handle cultural diversity much better than most places in the world, at least from what I read.
yes Virg, Palesinians and Jordans are Arabs.Two most important counteries of the Arabic world.


To those who regret the Arabic countries spending money on military things, did you ever think they do because they need to? They live in a pretty dangerous neighborhood. They have threats from all sorts of countries. If you don't live there, how do you know what they need?
exactly.

[Virgil]

:blush: thanks,Virg.Adiyoussef is an Arab too.


Oh is he? I didn't know. And another incredibly nice person that I would love to have as a close friend here where I live. I thought he was from one of the African countries. But I tend to mix everything. ;)

[miss tenderness]

I guess Night is an arab too:)

[Virgil]

I guess Night is an arab too:)

Oh her too? And who is nicer than the lady of smiles? :D

[miss tenderness]

:d:d.....................

[miss tenderness]

me too lol

okay! enough with that:lol:

[Nightshade]

The only Arabic person I know is Miss Tenderness right here on lit net, and I find her one of the nicest, warmest persons around. Yes, I know there are these terrorist thugs that come from many parts of the world, not just Saudia Arabia, but I imagine they are the nut balls that every country has, not the typical. (However those nut balls do cause a lot of problems, I'm not going to minimize that.) I imagine most people in Saudia Arabia to be as Miss T.
Are Palistians and Jordaneans Arabic, I don't know? They nonetheless are fine fellows and completely unlike the terrorists mentality. My boss's boss, very high up in the company, is a Muslim from India, and has looked out for my career, as well as the career of other non-muslims. In fact his current favorite is a jewish fellow. Perhaps here in the United States we handle cultural diversity much better than most places in the world, at least from what I read.

To those who regret the Arabic countries spending money on military things, did you ever think they do because they need to? They live in a pretty dangerous neighborhood. They have threats from all sorts of countries. If you don't live there, how do you know what they need?

To those who question whether the United States is the oldest democracy, name a country who established a democracy prior to 1776. Unless you're counting Athens in the 5th century BC or the Roman Republic 4th to 1st century BC, I don't believe there are any. As far as I know, I know no one to have declared the following prior to Thomas Jefferson, writing for the new, free nation:

As far as I know, that is the first time anyone has ever, even in ancient Greece and Rome, ever declared that man is endowed by God to be free as a natural right.
Ok couple of things Im arabic yes, (notice T said so but anyway, a 'brother arab' is basically anyone barring israelis from iraq in the east (lets see if I can still recite these from memory shall we?:lol: ) the gulf states, the sham so Jordun lebonon palestine syria etc .. the entire part of africa bordiring the med so egypt, libya, tunis algeria, morroco the country south of morroco ( cant rember its english name) sudan, somalia ( although that no longer exsits does it?) and madagascar--- Madgascar is juzur el qumar isnt it?

Ok as to post bc pre america democracy there was a time sadly it was befpre corruption was as rife as it is now possibly even pre- crusades so Im talking the depths of the european dark ages that the 'islamic Empire' operated on the quranic idea that all men are created equal by God.I think the exsact phrase is all men are as equal as the teeth on a comb the only differance between them is their religion and souls.


. Although their religion is not a peaceful one, they are a peaceful people.

errr actually the religion is peaceful in itself, technically I mean if you look at one of the most important words is Peace. but times change and people adapt things. :(

I guess Night is an arab too:)

hella! :p

[Jtolj]

Hahahahahaha. Seriously, do you have any idea about the world outside of your precious america at all?

Oh, I mispoke. Freedom (as we know it today) was invented in Western Eurasia, but it was implimented in the Americas.

Arabs are a race of people (race being physical characteristics), whose primary racial characeristic is their breathtaking beauty, but the Arabian world for a person like me does not sound good at all.

[cuppajoe_9]

Oh, I mispoke. Freedom (as we know it today) was invented in Western Eurasia, but it was implimented in the Americas.

Freedom was not 'invented' anywhere by anybody. It is a state of being. Democracy, on the other hand, was invented by the ancient Greeks. Parliamentary democracy was originally an English innnovation, and the bases for most modern constitutional democracies are the Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen and the Constitution of 1792, both products of the French Revolution. It should be noted that just because a country is democratic, it does not mean that it's people enjoy complete freedom.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'implimented', but if you mean that all of North America curently lives under a democratic government, then yes, you are correct.

[Jtolj]

Freedom was not 'invented' anywhere by anybody. It is a state of being. Democracy, on the other hand, was invented by the ancient Greeks. Parliamentary democracy was originally an English innnovation, and the bases for most modern constitutional democracies are the Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen and the Constitution of 1792, both products of the French Revolution. It should be noted that just because a country is democratic, it does not mean that it's people enjoy complete freedom.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'implimented', but if you mean that all of North America curently lives under a democratic government, then yes, you are correct.

We were the first major nation to have the equivalent of a Bill of Rights. Democracy has nothing to do with it. Rome and Greece may have been democratic but it still stucked in terms of freedom.

[Virgil]

Ok as to post bc pre america democracy there was a time sadly it was befpre corruption was as rife as it is now possibly even pre- crusades so Im talking the depths of the european dark ages that the 'islamic Empire' operated on the quranic idea that all men are created equal by God.I think the exsact phrase is all men are as equal as the teeth on a comb the only differance between them is their religion and souls.


Well that is good to know Night. We are trying to spread democracy to the middle east (I don't want to get political here) and there are some that claim that the middle east countries are not capable of it. I say poppycock to that. All people are capable of freedom. It is the natural state of human desire. And if it is embedded into the Quran as you say, well that is GREAT. There is reason to be optimistic. All men are created equal as endowed by God. That means freedom will come natural once it takes root.

[Boris239]

I'll try not to go into politics. History shows us that it is incredibly difficult to spread democracy by force. If you look, for example, on Turkey, you can see that it was a long anf painful road to the modern state. It started in the 19th century with first attempts of the constitution( by Midhat if I'm not mistaken), then there were Young Turks and only then they had Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. The transition was made by the Turks themselves. The same will probably happen earlier or later in the Arab world. Unfortunately it looks like it would be later so far...
Going back to what I know about Arab world- I am very interested in Arabic Spain. The Cordoban Khaliphat was the center of European culture and science, home of poets, the state of three religions, reasonably tolerant towards Christians and Jews. This was the time when Europeans were barbarians compared to Arabs.

[cuppajoe_9]

We were the first major nation to have the equivalent of a Bill of Rights.No, that was France, with the Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen, which the Bill of Rights is based on.

[OZEED]

The only Arabic person I know is Miss Tenderness right here on lit net, and I find her one of the nicest, warmest persons around. Yes, I know there are these terrorist thugs that come from many parts of the world, not just Saudia Arabia, but I imagine they are the nut balls that every country has, not the typical. (However those nut balls do cause a lot of problems, I'm not going to minimize that.) I imagine most people in Saudia Arabia to be as Miss T.

I work with several Muslims, and I'm friendly with them all, but I don't think any are Arabic. Are Palistians and Jordaneans Arabic, I don't know? They nonetheless are fine fellows and completely unlike the terrorists mentality. My boss's boss, very high up in the company, is a Muslim from India, and has looked out for my career, as well as the career of other non-muslims. In fact his current favorite is a jewish fellow. Perhaps here in the United States we handle cultural diversity much better than most places in the world, at least from what I read.

To those who regret the Arabic countries spending money on military things, did you ever think they do because they need to? They live in a pretty dangerous neighborhood. They have threats from all sorts of countries. If you don't live there, how do you know what they need?

To those who question whether the United States is the oldest democracy, name a country who established a democracy prior to 1776. Unless you're counting Athens in the 5th century BC or the Roman Republic 4th to 1st century BC, I don't believe there are any. As far as I know, I know no one to have declared the following prior to Thomas Jefferson, writing for the new, free nation:

As far as I know, that is the first time anyone has ever, even in ancient Greece and Rome, ever declared that man is endowed by God to be free as a natural right.

Virg, may I commend you on your strong sense of patriotism and I appreciate that you don't try and push your beliefs down my fellow LITararians throats :thumbs_up I myself am very patriotic, I love South Africa, even with all of our problems and hassles.
When it comes to Arabians, I think the women are flawlessly beautiful and the men are bloody awesome entrepreneurs.
and just to add my two cents, I love the jews as well, they too have an awesome sense of bussiness in my opinion.
I may not totally agree with some of the countries foreign policies, but something I heard at church the other day got me thinking, I wanna look at people as indiviuals and not define or pre-judge them based on their socio-economic background, race, gender or religious beliefs.

[thevintagepiper]

errr actually the religion is peaceful in itself, technically I mean if you look at one of the most important words is Peace. but times change and people adapt things. :(




I'd rather not get into this because it's such a touchy and controversial subject, and I don't wish to offend anyone, especially you, dear Nightshade, or Miss Tenderness! But I do know the Qur'an, and my parents have both read and studied it in Arabic and English.

Here are some examples of verses in the Qur'an (pasted from an article so I know it isn't proper form, and is mixed with parts of the article)


"Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims) and God will punish (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame" (Sura 9:14). And, "I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah" (Sura 8:13-17).

"I have been ordered to fight with the people 'til they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (obligatory alms). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (Al Bukhari, Vol. 1:13).

Mohammed once was asked, "What is the best deed for the Muslim next to believing in Allah and His Apostle?" His answer was, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause" (Al Bukhari, Vol. 1:25).



What I was saying was merely that Islam orginally did not promote peace or religious tolerance....I know that the majority of Muslims today would not say that, and they are wonderful people that I truly love and have felt at home with my entire life.

[Nightshade]

hummm I had posted somthing else but Ive desided to leave it to someone who can both explain better and understand better, just a note or 2 though
1) You havent offened me and Im pretty sure you havent offened miss T either but just in case someone one day reads your post and is offened I just want to clarify a few things...
2) you cant just paraphrase things it changes the meaning, and a part that you missed out is about how people dont punish but God does and from the way it sounds and I cant be sure but I have a feeling this is one of the suurah to do with Ahud which is when this tiny amount of muslims had an army 3 or 4 times their size attack them and they won bu when the dead were exiamned they had unsual injuries and it was because apparantly the angels fought with the muslims and they coped off heads and fingers perfectly ( by perfectly I mean absaloutly semetrically on both sides of the body and exactly the same on dozens of bodies. )

plus there is also adescripption of hell in thoses ayyahs so it would be violent as discrpitions of hell always are.

and ok as for religious tolerance one of my all time favourite ayahs "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (2:256)

Having said all that my reason for editing is this Ive been thinking about it and perhaps you cant make an objective statement about any religion because religion is afterall a subjective exceperiance so maybe when people intuperet thins it sonly a natural thing.
:confused:

[Virgil]

No, that was France, with the Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen, which the Bill of Rights is based on.

I don't beleive the Bill of Rights were based on The Rights of Man. If anything it was the other way around. Here's the introduction to France's Rights of Man


Approved by the National Assembly of France, August 26, 1789

The representatives of the French people, organized as a National Assembly, believing that the ignorance, neglect, or contempt of the rights of man are the sole cause of public calamities and of the corruption of governments, have determined to set forth in a solemn declaration the natural, unalienable, and sacred rights of man, in order that this declaration, being constantly before all the members of the Social body, shall remind them continually of their rights and duties; in order that the acts of the legislative power, as well as those of the executive power, may be compared at any moment with the objects and purposes of all political institutions and may thus be more respected, and, lastly, in order that the grievances of the citizens, based hereafter upon simple and incontestable principles, shall tend to the maintenance of the constitution and redound to the happiness of all. Therefore the National Assembly recognizes and proclaims, in the presence and under the auspices of the Supreme Being, the following rights of man and of the citizen:

It sounds like a complete paraphrase of Thomas Jefferson's Declaration of Independence written 13 years earlier. Interestingly they too link freedom to God.

The time lines of the bill of rights and rights of man are very close. I see the Rights of Man were authorized in August of 1789. The Bill of Rights were authorized in Sept of 1789, but they were originally formulated in the Articles of Confederation (the first attempt at a US Constitution) in 1787. The US government is structured so that it takes forever for laws to get passed.

[Virgil]

Virg, may I commend you on your strong sense of patriotism and I appreciate that you don't try and push your beliefs down my fellow LITararians throats :thumbs_up I myself am very patriotic, I love South Africa, even with all of our problems and hassles.


Thank you Ozeed. I believe everyone of every nation and ethnicity and religion should be proud of their identity. We all have something to be proud of. We all have evolved traditions and culture. Culture is like a beautifully woven carpet that we each have developed and that we each share with others and we evolve it by taking some of the good points of others. On that other thread about whether humans are animals, I've tried to point out the greatness and specialness of humanity. As humans, unlike animals, we develop culture and traditions, and those things are for the most part good. Patriotism, as long as it doesn't lead to jingoism or fanaticism, is a good and human trait. I'll tell you what ticks me off, and I believe every country has them. It's these people who who go beyond just healthy criticism and tear down a country's pride and traditions. I believe these people are self-loathing.

BTW, I love your term "LITararians". Very cool.

[higley]

Virg, as usual, shames me with his ability to say what I wish I knew how to.

I think that I would love to visit the Arab countries, but sadly I don't forsee the funds or the opportunity to go. :( I think my great-great grandfather was from Palestine.

[Jtolj]

No, that was France, with the Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen, which the Bill of Rights is based on.
Of course that was invalidated when all the mess from the revolution occured, so yes, I mispoke, but I think you know what I am attempting to say and are just playing me.

[cuppajoe_9]

The time lines of the bill of rights and rights of man are very close. I see the Rights of Man were authorized in August of 1789. The Bill of Rights were authorized in Sept of 1789, but they were originally formulated in the Articles of Confederation (the first attempt at a US Constitution) in 1787. The US government is structured so that it takes forever for laws to get passed.You are quite right, that's my mistake. The Declaration is the basis for the many attempts at an international code of human rights, and was, in fact, inspired by the US Declaration of Idependance.

The original Bill of Rights is an English document of the same name that dates back to 1689.

[kilted exile]

However, they are all based on the declaration of arbroath ;)

[Virgil]

The original Bill of Rights is an English document of the same name that dates back to 1689.

Oh, you're right. Here's a web site with the English Bill of Rights. I had forgotten about them too.

http://www.constitution.org/eng/eng_bor.htm

[Nightshade]

The Stuarts were protestant? why was I under the impression the scottish kings were catholic:confused:

[Virgil]

The Stuarts were protestant? why was I under the impression the scottish kings were catholic:confused:

Mary Queen of Scotts I believe was the last Scottish Catholic ruler.

[Chava]

Actually, in the 7th century, the arab world "invented" emancipation of women... (i'm not saying that this is still applicable in Saudi arabia for example) but there are many ways to measure freedom.
giving women equal legal status as men in the 7th century, compared to how women were treated in Europe around that time?
The times have changed since then of course, but this particular info, is from the Koran, and at the time it was revolutionary. That it is now being used as an opressive tool, is different.

[Pendragon]

I will be perfectly honest with you, I know more about the Muslim religion than the Arabian world. And I know that just as in any religion, there are people who take things to extremes, and do not represent Muslims as a whole. That is where people make mistakes, they judge by the actions of a few to condemn the whole. It is preposterous. If you find a bad spot on a piece of fruit, there's no reason to trash the whole fruit, just excise the bad spot. If I require a blood transfusion, I do not ask whose blood they use, and then refuse it because it comes from another race. If it will save my life it is that that is important. We should learn more on how to get along. :)

[Logos]

I'll try not to go into politics.
Thank you. It is appreciated when people follow the rules here and don't go into current politics :)

[underground]

i find it weird that no one mentioned aladdin, ali baba, or sindbad. those three are just the first that comes to mind when i think of "arab."

[Scheherazade]

Thought they are of Persian origin rather than Arabic.

[Nightshade]

Not really like 1001 nights they were compiled by 'arabs' but the stories themselves came from everywhere they met so some of the stories were persian but most were arabic.

[Scheherazade]

The names Scheherazade (Shahrazad) and Shahryar are not Persian?

*edit*
The nucleus of the stories is formed by a Pahlavi Sassanid Persian book called Hazār Afsānah[1] ("Thousand Myths", in Persian: هزارافسانه). During the reign of the Abbasid Caliph Harun al-Rashid in the 8th century, Baghdad had become an important cosmopolitan city. Merchants from Persia, China, India, Africa, and Europe were all found in Baghdad. It was during this time that many of the stories, which were originally folk stories, are thought to have been collected orally over many years and later then compiled into a single book. The later compiler and translator into Arabic is reputedly storyteller Abu abd-Allah Muhammed el-Gahshigar in the 9th century. The frame story of Shahrzad seems to have been added in the 14th century. The first modern Arabic compilation, made out of Egyptian writings, was published in Cairo in 1835.http://www.answers.com/topic/the-book-of-one-thousand-and-one-nights

[Nightshade]

:blush: ha, I was actually going to write some were persian some arabic and some came from further afield like india and china, but then I started thinking we why do I thnk that how did they get them so I just put in most were arabic.... shos you not to second gues yourself doesnt that!:nod:

[Pensive]

The names Scheherazade (Shahrazad) and Shahryar are not Persian?
You see as Urdu is a lashkari language, which has developed from Arabic, Turkish, Hindi and Persian; Scheherezade is a name common for girls here in Pakistan. So the first time, I read Scher's screen name in the forum, I thought she was Pakistani...

Heh, sorry for being off-topic.

[Pendragon]

i find it weird that no one mentioned aladdin, ali baba, or sindbad. those three are just the first that comes to mind when i think of "arab."
Well, of course I had read every one of these stories, and have an edition of The Arabian Nights on the bookshelf. I did not think them in any way indicactive of Arabian life, as I could read in National Geographic. I always think of an Arabian Knight as a man like Ardeth Bey in the movies The Mummy and The Mummy Returns, a strong, fearless warrior, true to his duty and faith.

[Turk]

You see as Urdu is a lashkari language, which has developed from Arabic, Turkish, Hindi and Persian; Scheherezade is a name common for girls here in Pakistan. So the first time, I read Scher's screen name in the forum, I thought she was Pakistani...

Heh, sorry for being off-topic.

Urdu language developed by Turkish Empire which reigned in India, Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan. It's basically means "army" in Turkish (ordu=army in Turkish). Since their army was a mix of Turks, Indians, Persians Peshtuns and other people they needed a common language to easily command their army. Urdu language's grammar is Turkish, more than other languages.

And the word Şehrâzad is Persian.

[Turk]

[QUOTE=Pensive;277701]You see as Urdu is a lashkari language[QUOTE]

What's lashkari means? "Military"?

[Pensive]

[QUOTE=Pensive;277701]You see as Urdu is a lashkari language[QUOTE]

What's lashkari means? "Military"?
Oh yes.

Actually, in the days of Mughal Empire, many soldiers were there from Persia, Turkey and of course native Indians...so the combination of all those languages was called Urdu. That's why it is called a lashkari zabaan.

[Turk]

Ha? Do i know Urdu language? :)

Military=Askeri in Turkish.

And it wasn't a Mughal (Mongol) Empire. It was Turkish Empire. I told before, at another thread. Babur Shah's himself is the 2. most important poet of Cagatay accent of Turkish.

[miss tenderness]

You guys are amazing! I like how you jumped from politics to discuss names:lol: interesting!

Shahrazad is a common Arabic name , but it's most probably of Persian origion. Shahrazad is a name of the king who we all know his story with his wife Sahrayar.

So , shahrazad was the guy , Shahrayar was the woman! Guess Scher's name should 've been Shahrayar!:D

[Scheherazade]

Shahrazad is a common Arabic name , but it's most probably of Persian origion. Shahrazad is a name of the king who we all know his story with his wife Sahrayar.

So , shahrazad was the guy , Shahrayar was the woman! Guess Scher's name should 've been Shahrayar!:DI think some historians and language experts disagree with you ;) :
Scheherazade or Shahrazad (Persian: شهرزاد‎ Shahrzad) is the (fictional) storyteller of The Book of One Thousand and One Nights.

The frame tale goes that every day Shahryar (Persian: شهريار or "king") would marry a new virgin, and every day he would send yesterday's wife to be beheaded. This was done in anger, having found out that his first wife was betraying him. He had killed three thousand virgins by the time he was introduced to Scheherazade.

Against her father's protestations, Scheherazade volunteered to spend one night with the King. Once in the King's chambers, Scheherazade asked if she might bid one last farewell to her beloved sister, Dunyazad, who had secretly been prepared to ask Scheherazade to tell a story during the long night. The King lay awake and listened with awe to Scheherazade's first story and asked for another, but Scheherazade said there wasn't time as dawn was breaking, and regretfully so, as the next story was even more exciting.

And so the King kept Scheherazade alive as he eagerly anticipated each new story, until, one thousand and one adventurous nights, and three sons later, the King had not only been entertained but wisely educated in morality and kindness by Scheherazade who became his Queen.

The nucleus of these stories is formed by an old Persian book called Hezar-afsana or the "Thousand Myths" (Persian: هزارافسانه).

The earliest forms of Scheherazade's name include Šīrāzād (شیرازد) in Masudi and Šahrāzād (شهرازاد) in Ibn al-Nadim, the latter meaning "she whose realm or dominion (شهر šahr) is noble (ازاد āzād)".

Scheherezade was identified, confused with, or partly derived from the legendary queen Homāy, daughter of Bahman, who has the epithet Čehrzād or Čehrāzād (چهرازاد) "she whose appearance is noble". Harun al-Rashid's mother, Al-Khayzuran, is also said to have influenced the character of Scheherazade.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheherazade

[Sad Guy]

You guys are amazing! I like how you jumped from politics to discuss names:lol: interesting!

Shahrazad is a common Arabic name , but it's most probably of Persian origion. Shahrazad is a name of the king who we all know his story with his wife Sahrayar.

So , shahrazad was the guy , Shahrayar was the woman! Guess Scher's name should 've been Shahrayar!:D

Are you sure ?
what I know is that Shahrazad was the woman and Shahrayar was the guy .


btw , hi everybody :)

[Madhuri]

Ha? Do i know Urdu language? :)

Military=Askeri in Turkish.

And it wasn't a Mughal (Mongol) Empire. It was Turkish Empire. I told before, at another thread. Babur Shah's himself is the 2. most important poet of Cagatay accent of Turkish.

In India it is referred to as Mughal Dynasty.

This is what I found --


Mughal is the Persian word for Mongol, and was generally used to refer to Central Asian nomads who claimed descent from the Mongol warriors of Genghis Khan. The Mughal rulers were adherents of Islam.

[Nightshade]

they were not! They advanced into bagdad and burned the greatest library of the time and kept marching till they reached egypt where the egyptians beat them....I think someones head enned up on Cairos eastern gate, but cant rember names

[miss tenderness]

Are you sure ?
what I know is that Shahrazad was the woman and Shahrayar was the guy .


btw , hi everybody :)


hhhhhh, yah, I just messed them up! absoloutly it's the vice versa:lol:

[Pensive]

Ha? Do i know Urdu language? :)

Military=Askeri in Turkish.

Hell No!

Askari and Fauj are some other words for army in Urdu.

Wow, it means that I can also understand Turkish language. :banana:

[Turk]

they were not! They advanced into bagdad and burned the greatest library of the time and kept marching till they reached egypt where the egyptians beat them....I think someones head enned up on Cairos eastern gate, but cant rember names

Yes, Mongol armies destroyed almost all cities they conquered. (Actually calling them Mongol is kinda misleading. Cengiz's [Tschingis, Chingiz word original word is Tengiz means "Sea" in English [Deniz in modern Turkish.] army was mix of nomad Turks and Mongols of Central and Far Asia. They were mostly Shamanic, not Muslim. And yes, when Hulagu (Cengiz's son) captured Baghdad they destroyed almost all Abbasi khalifes and burned the city (though on the other hand some says it's an old tradition. They firstly burn cities they invaded, then build it again). Hulagu's himself was a Buddhist as i remember. But later, they all converted to İslam. And yeah the only commander who certainly beat and stopped Mongol was a Kipchak Turk Baybars of Es-Devlet ut-Turkiye (some calls it "Mamluks" but official name of the state was "Es-Devlet ut-Turkiye"). And an interesting fact; Baybars was a slave when he came to Egypt. It's a good example of understanding slavery in İslam. History of İslam is full of governors and kings who were slave at beginning. And even calling em as slave is kinda misleading, because they were much more free than 19. century mine workers of England.

On the other hand Babur Empire of India is completely different. First of all they were speaking Turkish and Babur Shah's himself is a really good poet of Turkish and he's well known with his important poetry book "Baburname".

And a last thing, Şehrazad means "daughter of city, girl of city" in Persian. So that can't be man name.

(Note: Pensive; is there any website you know about Urdu language, i would like to make a little research about it.)

[Pensive]

(Note: Pensive; is there any website you know about Urdu language, i would like to make a little research about it.)

Not really, but if you search on google, you will find the works of many Urdu writers like Allama Iqbal. :)

[Scheherazade]

(Actually calling them Mongol is kinda misleading. Cengiz's [Tschingis, Chingiz word original word is Tengiz means "Sea" in English [Deniz in modern Turkish.]
Turk,

I really appreciate your efforts to conclude that everthing stems from Turkish :p but Genghiz/Jenghis/Jenghiz Khan took this name (his original name was Temuchin) after proving himself as a strong and worthy ruler. It means 'Supreme Conquerer' in Mongolian, I believe.

[Turk]

Well, i'm not trying to conclude everything stems from Turkish. If it's history i tell that. And yeah, original name of Genghiz Khan was Temuchin. It mean's "ironmonger" in archaic Turkish. Temur=Iron ("Demir" in modern Turkish, consonant "r" falls when -chi addition attached to the root word "temur") -chin (-ci, -çi, çu in addition in modern Turkish).

Sorry for concluding this stems from Turkish. But it's history.

And yeah, btw, Cengiz Khan's mother was a Turkish.

[Scheherazade]

Well, i'm not trying to conclude everything stems from Turkish. If it's history i tell that. And yeah, original name of Genghiz Khan was Temuchin. It mean's "ironmonger" in archaic Turkish. Temur=Iron ("Demir" in modern Turkish, consonant "r" falls when -chi addition attached to the root word "temur") -chin (-ci, -çi, çu in addition in modern Turkish).

The fact remains that Genghiz Khan means 'Supreme Conquerer' in Mongolian and it has nothing to do with the Turkish word 'Deniz' in origin. Why would they name him 'Sea' anyway. The Mongols, especially during Genghis' time, were land warriors and had barely been anywhere near any seas.

[Nightshade]

you know what I learned today maybe this should go in a 10 things you didnt know last week but whatever...
That the IT industry ( in the so called 'West') is male dominated and is predomiantly filled with an antifemal enviroment , that for a women to make any significant progress she has to work much harder then men and be much better and know more and more varied knowledge than men.
Howvere in Turkey women are in demand in the IT sector they still have to work hard but they are more accepted and welcomed. ( i might have to move to Turkey :rolleyes: )