Soviet Literature

[Idril]

I'm moving this conversation from the Cossack thread because it was getting a little off topic. Soviet literature...discuss...

QUOTE BY THORWENCH


I think the first part of the book was published in 1928 or somewhere in the 1920ies in a journal called "Octyabr" (I hope I didn't mix up the journals here). It was published in series and was a great success. Then the journal apparently stopped publishing it because they may have thought it too explosive or anyway not in accordance to Soviet ideology. Stalin then personally intervened and ordered the publishing to continue (no one really knows why or at least I didn't find any explanation, but Stalin was a strange man with many inexplicable whims and, being a Georgian, used to be responsible for ethnic groups under Lenin, perhaps he liked that sort of ethnic thing). The remaining parts were then published in another journal and people cued up mightily to get an issue. They even wrote letters to Sholokov to let the lovers come together. I think the last bit was published in the 1940ies.
There is still a dispute if Sholokov really wrote this book but newest research believes he did. I personally find this odd, knowing Sholokov's "New Land under the Plough" and "Destiny" (rough translation of the German titles). Destiny is great and always makes me cry, but they are really different in their ideological habitus. Sholokov also became a big shot in the Communist party and in the literature scene and once said, when faced with literary dissidents, the Gulag would be too good and too merciful for them. I find such a view difficult to reconcile with the Don-book where he takes a very measured and truly realistic stand. But then, I think no one so far has really looked in the double-mindedness, the scissor in our heads we all experienced. It may well be that this a phenomenon which had an impact on how incoherent political viewpoints and commitments were. Perhaps we all have been a bit incoherent.
The Fedin books of the trilogy I mentioned are called (again translations from German): Early Pleasures (plays before the revolution, lots of small middle class, merchants, proletarian trash and artists), An Unusual Summer (revolution and civil war) and The Flame (1941, attack against the Soviet Union). The characters are the same, is like a saga. if you are interested in that sort of thing I have a CD with original recordings of the Russian Army Choir from the 1940ies. Some of the stuff makes your hair on the neck stand up. It also has some revolution-time songs. I can find out if it is possible to send some of the songs via the internet. I am so glad to have found someone who is interested in Russian or Soviet literature of that era, here I am the only one who reads that sort of thing. So if you would like to continue, perhaps in another thread, I would be very delighted. The private messages allow only 2000 signs, alas. Have you ever heard of Tshingis Aitmatov or Daniil Granin (wrote after the WWII)? There is some really good stuff out there. There is also a book called "The Good Stalin" by someone called Jerofeyev (but I check this up). He is the son of Stalin's interpreter for French and writes about his experiences has a child and young man. Its not only about how the Intellegenzija lived in Peredelkino but also about the difficulties they had to face, again "reconciling" their existence as artists (one of their neighbours was the Pasternak family) with their own political opinions and the behaviour they had to display in order to survive.

[Kareniyna]

(hi everyone, i'm new to the forum--hope u don't mind my joining in on this topic; Russian literature is one of my "things"; haven't read a vast amount but know something about it and enjoy it) I haven't read as much of Soviet literature as the 19th century stuff so I'm not familiar with most of the authors mentioned by Thorwench (except Sholokhov) but I read a number of short storied by a Soviet-era author named Shukshin. anyone else know of him?

[Boris239]

Well, I've read "Quiet Don" and it's really difficult to believe that it was written by Sholokhov. Not only his other books are very diffirent, but he had to be incredibly young at the time. But nobody knows for sure- after all Gorky's early romantic short stories aren't very similar to his later works. I forced myself to read his "Mother"- complete nightmare
I've read couple of books by Chingiz Aitmatov and they were a bit strange, but interesting overall. I haven't read Fedin's trilogy, but I would like to advise for somebosy who is interested Anatoly Ribakov's books. The first book of the series is called "Children of Arbat"(for people who've never been to Russia, Arbat is the central street in Moscow). Another great series is by Vassily Grossman- the one I've read is called "Life and Destiny".
Shukshin was not only a great writer, but also an incredibly talented director. His wife is still alife, and his daughter is a well-known actress in Russia.
Here are couple of other Soviet writers that are worth looking into:

Anatoly Pristavkin
Mikhail Zoschenko
Ilia Erenburg
Andrey Platonov
Alexandr Fadeev- his "Young Guard" is very communist, but the whole generation of Soviet people were raised on it
Nikolai Ostrovsky "Kak zakalyalas' stal' "(aka "How heroes are made")- same as the last one

[Idril]

I haven't read any other Sholokhov so I can't say anything about that topic. Do they have any idea who wrote it if it wasn't him? It's an amazing piece of literature whoever wrote it.

Soviet Literature is something I've just started to explore. Like Kareniyna, I'm more familar with 19th century Russian literature but it's been interesting coming to it from that perspective. This is a bit from the earlier conversation in the Cossack thread that I'm too lazy to retype so: "I think the seeds were being sown at that time, they had these feelings of unrest, they were outraged at the inequality of the current system... I think they wanted to raise consciousness of the problems, point out how alienated people were becoming... I like reading those authors because it's fascinating to see the build up of emotion and dissatisfaction and alienation that led to revolution and then to read the later books and see just how perverted some of those ideals became when the real Revolution came. "

I'll have to add some of those authors to my amazon wish list. And Thorwench, I would love to hear some of those songs if you figure out how to send them. :nod:

[Kareniyna]

That's right, I remember now--Shukshin was into the cinematographic as well. I think I remember a film I saw where he played the leading role, with his wife; the film was "Kalina Krasnaya". Is this correct, Boris?

Also I remember a poet, early Soviet era I believe, Mayakovski. I read some of his stuff, very forceful, proud, revelling in a feeling of superiority in the idealistic, equable, utopian society that was supposedlybeing created in Russia at that time--this is how he came across to me in his work. He seemed to be sincere, really believed that they had something good going that was going to solve their social & government probs, poverty & all. I'm sure there's more to him than that, I only read a couple of his best known works from that early communist period. I understand he became disillusioned, committed suicide, first lauded then censored by the party. I'd like to study more about him & his work, seems like an interesting person & perspective.

(also heard--not sure if true or not--that he had an affair with an American journalist)

[Kareniyna]

Thorwench, if u figure a way to send, would also love to hear the music u offered. I was eight years old when my mother took me to a performance of the Red Army Choir in Madrid--it was an unforgettable experience!

[Turk]

Whenever i read a Soviet Author i pity 'em. Because i see their artistic skills in their writings, but i also know their artistic skills limited and oppressed because of Soviet regime. Because of Totaliter regime in USSR, Russian writers never reached the level of their predecessors (in my opinion), Dostoyevski, Tolstoy or Turgenyev. It's also a shame period for Russian history, because many writers killed or oppressed by regime. Some of 'em are Bulgakov, Pilniyak, Pasternak, Babel, Soljenitsin and many more, even despite he was a true Communist and friend of Lenin; Gorky.

Although they created some masterpieces of world literature, but i think if there wouldn't be Communist government Russian art could develop much more.

[Thorwench]

I read "How heroes are made" by Nikolai Ostrovski three million times and watched the TV series when I was a kid. This is definitely one of the most descriptive revolution books from the Reds' point of view. It is not particularly literary though because it was written by a layman turned writer when he had nothing else left (he became blind and paralysed, if the story is true) and describes events rather than exploring and analysing them. Fadejew's "Young Guarde" and Gorky's "Mother" I didn't like. The best so far has really been "Qiet Don" and the Fedin Trilogy, Isaac Babel's stuff wasn't bad either but not very in-depth I thought. I still try to understand the "Russian Soul" as we call it and I believe the Revolution and what came after is part of it. It is not that time somehow stopped after Tolstoy died. I also think that it is too simple to just talk or think of oppression. And even if it would only have been this, there still remains the all important question how people live in such a system, how they change, how their feel, how they develop and become something that opens up. No ony denies that there has been a great struggle but people reveal normally their true self in times of struggle and hardship. It is quite easy to be good if it doesn't cost you anything. I want to know about Russians as they were, and as they are and since I don't know very many (though a few) literature can be a way, albeit a very limited one. And then, I was raised by parents who welcomed them as liberators in 1945 and whatever happened thereafter: they came all this very very long way over muddy fields, broken forrests, ruined cities, eradicated villages and in my mind I see them marching and dying and suffering and fighting and I want to appreciate and honour their sacrifice. So, after being sentimental I will go and promise to find about the music.

[Turk]

You see Red Army who invaded East Germany as liberators?

[Thorwench]

If you spent the best part of those 12 years in a concentration camp you would, wouldn't you? Considering what you said in the Cossack thread I suggest you go and buy yourself one of those brown shirts. Or do you already have one?

[Idril]

She said her parents looked to them as liberators and you have to remember the time frame here, 1945, after WWII, I'm sure anyone looked good after Hitler. And we have the benefit of hindsight, they didn't. The Communists promised a much better life, they promised equality and peace, they certainly didn't come out and say, "We're going to take away everyone's land and posessions, we're going to kill and rape and pillage, we're going to imprison all your intellectuals and artists, and take away all your political and social liberties." The concept of Communism is actually quite admirable, empowering the lowly and repressed, it's only in practice things didn't quite work that way but we can't really judge what they did or felt then with the knowledge of history we have now.

[Turk]

Aaah, are you Jewish? Well, i'm not a Nazi, as an individual Red Army may be liberators for your parents. But in universal point of view both of them, Nazis and Communists were Totaliter. And you should also know when Nazi army invaded Ukraine people of Ukraine welcomed them as liberators. Cuz while your parents getting jailed or killed by Nazis in Germany or Poland, Ukranians or Khirimea Tatars or Ahiska Turks were getting killed by Russian Government (by intentional famine of Communist government over 5 million people died in Ukraine and cannibalism cases seen in a educated country like Russia. Also %50 of Khrimea Tatars destoryed by Stalin's exile, these are just 2 examples).

So shortly they may saved YOUR PARENTS, but that doesn'T mean they were liberators in universal meaning.

Btw, how old are your PARENTS?

[Turk]

Yeah, ok, there's a misunderstood, her parents saved by Red Army. Ok. I should edit my message.

[Thorwench]

Turk, no one said they were and no, you didn't have to be a jew to have some lovely lovely time in one of those camps.
No one denies that the Soviet state was oppressive and totalitarian, however, this is not what I am interested in. I am interested in the PEOPLE and in WHAT happened and HOW it happened and, if I am really lucky, in WHY it happened. I see things on an individual level here, have always done, will probably always do. Even when the state is a manslaughterer the individual living in this state, and even believing in this state, often is not. In essence what you are doing right now is exactly what they did. Take an idea and subsume everything and everyone under this very idea. The mushik who went and fought all his way through the entirety of eastern Europe was a real person who made a great sacrifice for something he wasn't even slightly responsible for. And this is his achievement and this should be counted. If you don't do this you reduce the individual to naught and this is what they did. You have to judge each and every case individually to establish guilt or merit. And we actually want to discuss Soviet literature here and if you have any other issues, why don't you open your own thread or say something intelligent about the books you consider best. I am sure you will be able to this since you have read Babel and Pasternak?

[Turk]

If you think i'm doing what they did, you really didn't understand what am i talking about. Before everything i'm not thinking egocentric, i try to see events from universal point of view, all Fascist and Totaliter ideas feed by egocentric thoughts. Be careful and analyze who's egocentric here.

And i didn't say i read all writers i counted, thought i've read all authors up there i didn't read Babel's and Pilinyak's novels (except few stories). And even if did i couldn't write an essay about books, because my English is not enough to write a high level article.

As a last word at my first message i told regime blocked, censored, oppressed artists just like what Nazis did in Germany. And this is certainly about Soviet Literature, so if this topic goinf of the subject i'm not the only reason of this.

[Boris239]

Turk, I can assure you that only a small part of Ukraine welcomed German troops as their liberators, also there were much more such people there than in Belorussia or Russia.
Thorwench is absolutely right and a common Russian soldier didn't really think about suppressing the freedoms in Eastern Europe. Certainly both of my grandfathers didn't think about it.

The fact that under the communist totalitarian regime there existed so many talented writers is in fact amazing especially considering their mortality rate in the USSR. And I'll always choose Bulgakov over let's say Turgenev. Tolstoy and Dostoevsky are exceptions, but there are not many writers of that level in the whole world anyway.

Thorwench, I actually liked "Young Guard". If you disregard most of the propaganda, it's pretty good and the story is mostly real. Actually Fadeev later commited suicide beacuse he occasionally accused the wrong guy of being a traitor (at least it was one of the reasons). I've read some books by young Fadeev and liked them very much.

[Thorwench]

Boris, I always disregard the propganda bits. Sometimes they are interesting , though. In Fedin's Unusual Summer which is 2nd part of the trilogy and was written during the Stalin era you find insertions not part of any chapter called : images of war. In these he gives all the battles and troop movement in the civil war and praises Stalin's role as the true saviour of the revolution (which he wans't) even quoting entire speeches or letters by Stalin. This may serve 2 purposes: 1 is to praise him as would be expected at the time although I think he overdoes it a bit; 2 is to establish his superior ability to conduct warfare (the generalissimus) in parallel to WWII which was going on at the time the book was written. It is also interesting that the praise is so blatantly inserted - we would have read between the lines that this was nothing but lip service, i.e. the propaganda subverts itself, but then, I don't know much about Fedin as a person. Book three, which mainly deals with the taking of Brest and the first three days of Svetchennaya Voina doesn't mention Stalin at all (was written after his death). Conspicuous, this.
I didn't like Fadeev that much because there was not much development within the persons themselves, they were all pretty static. It therefore was pretty predictable. It is a true book in the sense that in the end, they are caught for a really unnecessary and stupid reason, that's what I thought at the time at least. Although this is some sort of heroism it is a highly doubtful one. They should have protected themselves better in order to be more effective as partisans. But then, they all were very very young, you don't tend to be careful when young but the taste of nonsense from a military point of view remains. It is also that this book was certainly intended to set an example and their example should rather be a lesson. I thought that the message: Sacrifice your life no matter what and you will be a hero showed some inkling of the soviet state's tendency to disregard the value of human life and a poor understanding of effectivity.
Can you recommend any other of the Fadeev stuff you mentioned? The same applies to Shukshin, any suggestions? The name sound familiar as a movie director. Which ones did he make? I know a hell of a lot of Russian movies, so I probably could place your information. My favourite one is Destiny but that's Bondartshuk I think (also playing the lead)? I mean the Sholokov adaptation where the soldier finds this little boy and does not have the heart to tell him that he is not his fallen father.

[Koa]

I have never read anything Soviet I think... :rolleyes: I was about to last year but then I never got around to. I really should, to see how it's like with my eyes rather than reading comments...

Well, what I mean is that I never read regime literature... talking of just Soviet period as in time, I read the abovementioned Bulgakov and I have big big problems with him :blush:, I read Solzhenycin and Vasilij Grossman... and stuff...

[Boris239]

Fadeev's best book is probably "Razgrom"("Rout"). It was written in 1927 and is about a group of partisans during the Russian Civil War.
I have read only short stories by Shukshin. His films are "Kalina Krasnaya"("Snowball Berry Red"), "Oni srazhalis' za Rodinu" and many others.
What other Russian movies do you like? My favorite is probably Tarkovsky's "Solaris". I also like a lot of Mark Zakharov's movies that are mostly based on Eugene Schwarz's plays(another great Soviet writer). "Pokayanie"("Repentance") is a great Perestroyka time Georgian movie for undestanding Stalin's times.

[Thorwench]

I like "Oswoboshdjenie" and "Go and see" (I think by Tarkovsky), "Matjora" (again Tarkovsky?), "Destiny" as I said (I get the Russian title to identify, German versions have all their own German titles which may not be the same as the Russian original ones) and "As the cranes were flying" (you probably never identify this one, I get the Russian title as well). And then of course all the kiddie movies, those wonderful fairy tales. We can buy them here again on DVD and I show them to my children to carry on with the tradition.
I also like Eisenstein, especially "Ivan Grosny", "Alexander Nevsky" and "Potjomkin". And the good old Hamlet film with Innokenti Smoktunovsky as Hamlet. Did you watch or read "Guardians of the Night", the new "Blade" like film / book by Lukianenko? My husband, who is English, likes "Quiet Dawn" based on Vassilyevs book. I forced him to watch all of them, if I have to watch "Battle of Britain" or "The Great Escape" three million times....

[Woland]

I have big big problems with him :blush:

Mind if I ask what sort of problems?

[Thorwench]

Yeah, what problems and what did you read? (Master and Margarueta or The white Guard? - they are the only ones I know. And Boris, I have the Russian titles: Destiny is "Sudhba Czeloveka" and the Cranes is "Letyat shuravly". What's with "Symorodok" (The Kingfisher)? What's with Arkady Gaydar, we had his Timur book in school. Almost everyone loved it - and the film as well. Gives a really good atmosphere of the Crimean peninsula as well.

[Kareniyna]

(Tx Boris 4 answer @ Shukshin's film...)

Since Bulgakov is being discussed, I'm curious to ask if anyone has read his "Sobachie cerdtse" (I think it translates as "Dog's heart") and if so what did u think of it? It was obviously something of a parable or a satire; and I think I understood the idea he was trying to convey but... it's still a bit foggy and bizarre to me. Any input?

[Koa]

Mind if I ask what sort of problems?


Just don't like him...read master and margarita twice, the second time just to see if a few years later and with more knowledge i would appreciate it but nope...i'm never going to try again. i find it boring as hell (though i wonder if the translator has something to do with that) and all the 'magic' part of people flying and turning into pigs and whatnot makes me want to throw the book away....:blush:

[Boris239]

I, of course, have read "Heart of a dog" and it's one of my favorite books. And there is a great movie by Vladimir Bortko with Evstigneev playing professor Preobrazhensky. There are so many levels in this book. The most obvious is the fact that although he has heart of a dog, Poligraf Poligrafovich's a real human. He is such a disgusting individual not because of the animal part( Sharik is very likable dog), but because of his guman part. In fact his dislike of cats is his only understandable trait.
Then all the things that professor was telling about "razruha"-it's in our heads not on the streets. On a bit deeper level- if you think about it. Sharikov was created by Preobrazhensky, an intellectual, who didn't know what his experiment will result in. Similarly the Russian Revolution was done mostly by idealistic and intellectual people who created the monster that finally destroyed most of them.And Thorwench, there are other Bulgakov's books "Theatrical novel", "Life of Molier", "Run"(Beg), various plays- for example "Ivan Vasil'evich changes his profession"(there is a famous Soviet comedy based on it)
Yes, everybody has read about Timur in Russia. Gaydar's first book is actually "School" which is also very good. I've read also bunch of his stories for kids- the most famous is probably the afiry tale about Mal'chish Kibal'chish. Do you know that his grandson was actually the Russian prime minister in the 90s?
There are a lot of really good writers for youth in Russia and a huge number of great movies for the young generation. My favorite is "Two captains" by Kaverin. There was a movie based on it and recently a musical "Nord Ost" which has a very sad history(you've probably heard about the terrorists taking the hostages during the performance). The musical was pretty good actually- I've seen it in Moscow.
The "Cranes are flying" are pretty popular. And "The Destiny of a man" is definitely not one of Tarkovsky's movies. I did watch "The Night watch" but can't say that I liked it. I do like "Hamlet" with Smoktunovsky who is one of my favorite actors. I can reccomend a lot of easy Soviet comedies that are always fun to watch.
To finish my long reply- for those who live in New York- Thre is a Russian film festival right now in the Greenwich Village. It started today and will be held for a week. I saw "Piter FM" today and it was pretty good.

[Woland]

Just don't like him...read master and margarita twice, the second time just to see if a few years later and with more knowledge i would appreciate it but nope...i'm never going to try again. i find it boring as hell (though i wonder if the translator has something to do with that) and all the 'magic' part of people flying and turning into pigs and whatnot makes me want to throw the book away....:blush:

Ive read the Ginsburg translation and two others and the Ginsburg translation wa s definately the most enjoyable for me. Its sentences were more succint, often dead pan and had more wit, so I would guess I picked up an at least passable translation. That being said the things that you dislike about the book are the aspects I enjoy /shrug, different strokes and all...

[Woland]

(Tx Boris 4 answer @ Shukshin's film...)

Since Bulgakov is being discussed, I'm curious to ask if anyone has read his "Sobachie cerdtse" (I think it translates as "Dog's heart") and if so what did u think of it? It was obviously something of a parable or a satire; and I think I understood the idea he was trying to convey but... it's still a bit foggy and bizarre to me. Any input?

Im just starting on Heart of a Dog now, but I can already tell Im going to like it. Ill come back here after I finish it.

[Thorwench]

Dorogiy Boris, I meant that "Matyora" and "Go and see" are possibly by Tarkovsky. Destiny of man is by Bondartshuk I think. I can otherwise only agree on the great quality of Russian or Soviet literature for young readers. We all liked, and my children still adore, Volkov's adaptation of the Wizard of Oz including the first four sequels. Czaplina's animal stories are wonderful and a great introduction to wild / zoo animal issues. When I was older I liked "Grey Owl" by Prishvin and "Dersu Usala" although the latter is probably an adult book. There is such a versality in Russian landscape and ethnic minorities and those two books raise an awareness for those minorities and their problems. That's why I liked Tshingis Aitmatov so much, especially "The white Steamer" and the Inuit-book, the German title translates to "Speckled dog that runs by the sea". It is a very touching and somehow, for us middle Europeans, strange story of sacrifices to be made in harsh environments. A couple of years ago we had an Inuit exhibition in our town with real inuits being there, showing how they create their art and explaining how they live. I went there with my children and you can see how this makes an impact upon them, perceiving the likeness of human beings and their differences as well. It makes you admire anyone who copes with these climatic conditions. Anyway, have to run now and hope to get the Fadeev-book you suggested.

[Kareniyna]

Sorry, i wanted to ask more about the "heart of a dog" but I was away with a sprained hand (no typing!) Thanks B. for insight--makes more sense of it. Appreciated the input.

[lostdog]

Thorwench, I'm wondering if you have ever come across the book "Comrade Venka" by Pavel Nilin. It is a novel translated from the Russian by Josef Barnes, and published by Marzani and Munsell, New York, 1959. It' been a long time since I read it, but what I remember is a moving story of a young police officer in a rural region who makes an agreement with a group of anti-soviet "bandits" as they are refered to in the book, and is later betrayed by his superiors, who execute the leader of the band. So the story is of an attempt to find a peaceful resolution to conflict that is betrayed by the officialdom. I hadn't found this site when your discussion took place, but I wish I had. Lostdog

[aeroport]

I do like "Hamlet" with Smoktunovsky who is one of my favorite actors.

With regard to this, my Shakespeare prof was telling us yesterday that there is indeed a "Communist" film of Hamlet, and of something else which eludes me presently, which features music by Shostakovich and is altogether quite fascinating. I was just wondering if this is the same that you are referring to, and if it may be obtained somewhere.

[Boris239]

Yes, it's the same one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamlet_%281964_film%29

You can buy it on Amazon

[Yelena]

[QUOTE=Turk;266678]Aaah, are you Jewish? Well, i'm not a Nazi, as an individual Red Army may be liberators for your parents. But in universal point of view both of them, Nazis and Communists were Totaliter. And you should also know when Nazi army invaded Ukraine people of Ukraine welcomed them as liberators. Cuz while your parents getting jailed or killed by Nazis in Germany or Poland, Ukranians or Khirimea Tatars or Ahiska Turks were getting killed by Russian Government (by intentional famine of Communist government over 5 million people died in Ukraine and cannibalism cases seen in a educated country like Russia. Also %50 of Khrimea Tatars destoryed by Stalin's exile, these are just 2 examples).

So shortly they may saved YOUR PARENTS, but that doesn'T mean they were liberators in universal meaning.


Now, Turk, sorry if I somehow misunderstood you, but how does the fact that the Red Army was from a communist country have to do with the fact that it was them who defeated the Nazis?

[Idril]

I have a new favorite Soviet author, not that he really eclipses the older favorites, he's just newer...anyway, I'm talking about Vladimir Voinovich. I've read The Adventures of Private Ivan Chonkin and I'm about to finish it's sequel, Pretender to the Throne and I have to say Voinovich is just brilliant. His satire is sublime, his seemingly light and almost farcical style belie a much more sinister and deadly world, one in which incompetence and misunderstandings bring about death and loss of freedom. Like Bulgakov, he makes you laugh while at the same time he horrifies you. I've ordered a couple more books by Voinovich and I can't wait to get started on them.