I need HELP

[totyfroty]

well i really donot like poetry and studying it is so hard for me
now i got this professor who said that we have to do everything explain and make the analysis and i havenot find any resources online so...
well i will study the 16th century verse and the petrarchaism and sonnets so please help me :bawling:
if you have essays you wrote or know any site or know what can i do please donot hesitate and tell me
thanks
take care

have a nice day

[OZEED]

well i really donot like poetry and studying it is so hard for me
now i got this professor who said that we have to do everything explain and make the analysis and i havenot find any resources online so...
well i will study the 16th century verse and the petrarchaism and sonnets so please help me :bawling:
if you have essays you wrote or know any site or know what can i do please donot hesitate and tell me
thanks
take care

have a nice day

Hi Toty, was there any specific poem or sonnet that your prof wanted you to look at?

[totyfroty]

yeah sorry i forget to mention it
first there is "Whoso List To Hunt" by Thomas Wyatt
ofcourse there would be others but this one for now
thanks
take care

have a nice day

[PeterL]

yeah sorry i forget to mention it
first there is "Whoso List To Hunt" by Thomas Wyatt
of course there would be others but this one for now.

That's an easy one. First, who is the narrator? What is the narrator saying. That is a fairly straighforward poem, as far as the content is concerned. With that done, look at the rhyme, line length, and meter. The rhyme scheme tells you which variety of sonnet it is. And the couplet states the conclusion. As a general matter, the Renaissance English writers wrote whiny love sonnets.

[OZEED]

I thought you might find the following a good read Toty the essay deals with the petrachan model.
http://petrarch.petersadlon.com/submissions/Griffiths.html

[pandora]

Here are some links on literature.Maybe it will be useful for you, i do not know.

www.gradesaver.com this site will help you about essays.

[Petrarch's Love]

if you have essays you wrote or know any site or know what can i do please donot hesitate and tell me
thanks

Toty--I teach at the college level, and I specialize in 16th century poetry, so I know quite a lot about this subject. I also know a fair amount about grading, and if you're asking for people's essays with the idea of passing off some or part of them as your own work, I'd advise you not to. You'll probably get caught, and it could mean the end of your college career. If you just meant that you'd like to learn more about the subject, other students' work is probably still not the place to start. The site that PeterL suggested looks like it has some decent information (though I only got a chance to skim it). The Luminarium,http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/ , is a fairly reputable site with many Renaissance texts and some fairly good introductury essays about them. Each author has a section on his life, some selected works, and some critical material. You might want to click on the link to Wyatt to see what they have on him there.

It sounds like what you're mainly asking for help on is how to read through a poem and analyse it, which is something that really takes practice, and multiple readings. If you're struggling in this class you should go talk to your professor or course assistant in office hours. Your instructor(s) are there to help you, and most of them don't bite. I and others on this site could probably also lend a little help if you're willing to put some work in. Post the poem that's troubling you and post the way you'd analyse it if you absolutely had to on, say an exam, along with very specific questions about what's puzzling you. If you have no idea how to begin, start with the questions Peter L suggested, maybe even just summarize what you think the poem is saying. If people here see you've done some thinking on your own, they'lll be more inclined and more able to help you out where you've got problems, but no one's going to give you a free ride.

[totyfroty]

Thanks to all of you
well PT thanks
actually when i ask for essays i just need to know the way to analyis and not coping it (i wouldnot do this)
so ok i will check the sites and write an analysis then i will send it here and you can give me your opinions
thanks

have a nice day

[Petrarch's Love]

well PT thanks
actually when i ask for essays i just need to know the way to analyis and not coping it (i wouldnot do this)
so ok i will check the sites and write an analysis then i will send it here and you can give me your opinions
thanks

have a nice day


Glad to hear it. Good luck with your studies, and I'll be happy to lend a little help if you post something. :)

[totyfroty]

ok here is my first analysis please tell me what you think

In sir Thomas Wyatt poem "Whoso List to Hint", the speaker is telling his friends that if they want to hunt he knows where they can find a deer. He has exhausted himself a lot in pursuing this deer that he has given up. The deer weas a necklace saying" Do not Touch Me" because I belong to Caesar. That reflects that no man shall win this deer and it is impossible to catch her like it is impossible to catch the air in a net. This is an Italian sonnet consists of an octave and a sestet .It is written in the basic of abbaabba cddcdd.

The poem is about the attraction Wyatt felt towards Anne Boleyn, when he noticed that king Henry VIII is also attracted to her he gave up the pursuit . Eventually king Henry VIII made Anne the second of his six queens. In the poem the speaker not only reflects a genuine desire for the deer , but a bewilderment at the difficulty involved in attaining it.

Wyatt uses the idea of the hunt as a metaphor for the poet's pursuit of an idealized object. He begins the poem with a strong metaphor " Whoso List to Hunt , I Know Where is an Hind" . This shows his beloved, Anne, as a deer which mean that she is a weak woman and she cannot choose who will capture her. Another metaphor "I leave off therefore since in a net I seek to hold the wind" .This shows that Anne is unattainable and it is impossible to win her love as it is impossible to catch the wind in a net. It also refers to the speaker inability to catch the deer . The force of " I seek " suggests a continued effort of vain pursuit . To indicate that Anne belongs to the king he says " And graven with diamonds in letters plains \ "Noil Me Tangere " , for Caesar's I am " . The image of the diamonds indicates that Anne belongs to the king . The diamond necklace marks her association to the throne.

The cluster of words balance the ways in which the pursuit is both physically and mentally demanding. "Fainting" suggests not only a physical exhaustion but emotional exhaustion as well. The word "sore " included both the sense of sore muscles and mental suffering. So Wyatt makes the poem more physical and more introspective at the same time.

The deer in the poem is not viewed as an object of virtue, but simply as an unattainable object of desire. He cannot have her , but not because of her virtue. It is instead Caesar that stands in his way. Although the conventional petrarchan lady refuses to return the lover's affection in order to preserve her chastity , the lady in Wyatt's poem might actually love him but cannot act on it or will not act on it . Caesar in the poem is king Henry VIII.

that what i have come with so please tell me what you think and if there is amy thing that has to be added
thanks
take care

have a nice day

[Petrarch's Love]

Hi Toty--I've been busy so I've only just now seen your post. What's good about this is that you've got the main idea of what is going on in the poem right. There are some changes I would make, though if this were something you were going to turn in for class. In the first paragraph everything you say is completely true, and I'm glad to see you've gone through the process of thinking out what is literally going on in the poem, which is a good first step if you're not used to reading poetry. However, as a paper this would be more effective if you didn't just list what's literally going on in the poem at the beginning, but introduced what is metaphorically happening at the same time. You want to make it clear upfront to the person grading that you understand both the literal and metaphorical levels of the poem. You've done this in the third paragraph, so I would just do something more like that earlier on if this were an assignment.

Also, if you wanted to push this analysis to the next level, you might want to try to analyse, not just what is happening but how and why it is happening, and how it is being presented. How does the necklace saying noli me tangere tell us something about the deer (and also what does it mean? You may want to include a translation of it to show you understand). Rather than just stating what rhyme scheme Wyatt uses, try thinking about why he chose that rhyme scheme and how he uses it effectively. How does Wyatt use his words? You've started doing this some in your fourth paragraph where you're doing a good job of looking at the "how" of some of the language in the poem (you need to open that paragraph with a quote of the cluster of words you're looking at though).

These are some suggestions for how to progress further, but what you've written is a good first start for someone who's new to this kind of poetry and you've done well. Keep at it. :)

[totyfroty]

thanks Petrarch's love
well i have a question about including the metaphorical . Is it best to start the analysis with just the araphrase and the theme then the imagery or it is best to include both metaphorical and litterally meanning in the beginning.
how i would analyse how and why things are happenning
as for the translation of "Noil Me Tanger" sorry i forgot to include it
and how he uses the rhyme scheme effictively i donot know that too
thanks

have a nice day

[Petrarch's Love]

thanks Petrarch's love
well i have a question about including the metaphorical . Is it best to start the analysis with just the araphrase and the theme then the imagery or it is best to include both metaphorical and litterally meaning in the beginning.

toty--Include both metaphor and literal meaning from the start. At the same time as you are summing up the literal meaning explain the metaphor behind it to. I would start the essay with the opening lines of your third paragraph, with a few minor changes like this:

"In his poem, "Whoso List to Hunt," Sir Thomas Wyatt uses the idea of the hunt as a metaphor for the poet's pursuit of an idealized object. He begins the poem with a strong metaphor " Whoso List to Hunt , I Know Where is an Hind" . This refers to his beloved, Anne, as a deer and the lover as a hunter."

This says right up front that you're not only aware of the literal meaning, but you're aware of the metaphor and how it's working in the poem.



how i would analyse how and why things are happenning

You're starting to do this here:


The cluster of words balance the ways in which the pursuit is both physically and mentally demanding. "Fainting" suggests not only a physical exhaustion but emotional exhaustion as well. The word "sore " included both the sense of sore muscles and mental suffering. So Wyatt makes the poem more physical and more introspective at the same time.

By looking at Wyatt's choice of words you're beginning to look at how he has put his poem together and why he would choose these particular words for the poem. You started with the observation that the poem is describing a "physically and mentally demanding" pursuit, and then you looked to the poem to see how Wyatt is creating the effect of interior and physical exhaustion by choosing words like "sore," and "fainting" (you might have mentioned "wearied" too).

The flip side to how is why. For example, you've done a good job identifying several metaphors and what they mean in the third paragraph. However, rather than simply listing these metaphors you might want to address the question of why Wyatt has chosen these metaphors. The reason is that he is trying to make a certain kind of claim or argument. In this case, you might identify this claim as being that his love for the lady is hopeless. I would start with this claim and then introduce supporting evidence for it. You might open with the claim that Wyatt thinks his love is hopeless and then follow it by identifying how he expresses this by comparing her to the wind, which is impossible to catch, choosing words like "in vain," and finally introducing the image of the diamond noli me tangere necklace that marks the lady as the king's posession. By beginning with the claim that is the reason why Wyatt used certain metaphors, words, and images (and why you're interested in them) and then following it up with how these things support this claim, your writing will come across much stronger.


and how he uses the rhyme scheme effictively i donot know that too

Don't worry too much about this one right now. What I wanted to suggest is that in a poem you might also want to think about why a poet would choose a certain form, and how the rhyme works in the poem. In this case Wyatt has chosen to use a sonnet form. Part of the reason for this is that it is a courtly form of poetry and that he wants to imitate the tradition of Petrarchan love poetry. Putting aside the reasons for choosing the sonnet form however, how does Wyatt use the form he has chosen? This is, as you point out, an Italian sonnet comprised of an octave and a sestet. How does he use these two parts? Does the octave present different information from the sestet? Does he mark the beginning of one and the end of another in any particular way (hint: think about repetition)? If you don't really get this yet, don't worry about it.

[totyfroty]

thanks Petrarch's Love

[totyfroty]

ok my second poem would be 'Follow Thy Faire Sun" and "Follow Your Saint' by Thomas Campion

have a nice day

[totyfroty]

Please i really need help with these poems and i cant find anything online so if any one knows a good place please give me the link
because i will have to make a comparison between them
take care

have a nice day

[Petrarch's Love]

Hi Toty, you might want to try here: http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/campion.htm. I haven't had a chance to really look at the critical essays, but you might find something helpful either about the poems you're looking at or Campion's work in general.