Can one fall from Grace?

[rufioag]

This is a question that many have wondered and has been equally debated. I myself am in doubt on this issue and would like some feedback on scriptural evidence of wether one can or cannot fall from Grace. I have read different things such as Galatians 5:4 "You are cut off from Christ, you who would have righteousness by the law; you are turned away from grace." And some would point this verse to show that, yes you can fall away from Grace but my own interpretation, both including this verse and its context, would have me believe that Paul is pointing towards the fact that the Law is not enough for one to have eternal salvation. I believe this becuase he also says in Galations 2:19-21: For I, through the law, died to the law, that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me. That life which I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. I don't make void the grace of God. For if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nothing!"

Interpretation of the scripture is a very interesting thing. I hope someone can explain to me and allow me to understand more fully the scripture.

[Virgil]

Very interestng question, Rufiog. I am not learned in theology, so my answer will be mostly based on my impressions rather than knowledge. But i am interested in what people will reply here.

From my limited knowledge, I think when it comes to the question of grace, there are two opposite views. One that grace is endowed to a few select people that God so chooses (St Augustine's position) and that grace is endowed to all (St. Thomas Aquinas's position). Again this is as I understand it, so I may be incorrect here. From St. Agustine's view, no matter what you do in life, God has given you grace based on some unknown rationale, then you cannot lose grace. From St Thomas's view, you can lose your naturally endowed grace by your actions. Of course that would still be up to God.

I don't know if any of this is correct, but this is my understanding.

[bazarov]

Maybe ShoutGrace:D

[mtpspur]

Carefully read Romans Chaper 8. Meditate and pray in faith awhile. Then try to tell God that your sins are too great for Him to cover with the blood of His Son the Lord Christ. Any true believer will be unable to say let alone write that. The gospel is for sinners to accept God at His word as true.

God is to approached in faith which by His grace He provides to the believer. "I am come that they might have life--" (my Bible's not handy but it's from John I think).

To believe you can fall from grace is to start from a false presumption. The real question is: Was I ever in grace?? Once assured that God is true and a real belief in His ability to save us from our sins and create a new spirit in us will put all these doubts aside. People that worry about it are effectively doubting God's power to save and the root cause is usually unbelief in His promises or unwillingness to repent and turn your sins over to God.

Isaiah 53 protrays the Saviour and Romans 8 protrays his thoughts towards us.

[ShoutGrace]

From my limited knowledge, I think when it comes to the question of grace, there are two opposite views. One that grace is endowed to a few select people that God so chooses (St Augustine's position) and that grace is endowed to all (St. Thomas Aquinas's position). Again this is as I understand it, so I may be incorrect here. From St. Agustine's view, no matter what you do in life, God has given you grace based on some unknown rationale, then you cannot lose grace. From St Thomas's view, you can lose your naturally endowed grace by your actions. Of course that would still be up to God.

I don't know if any of this is correct, but this is my understanding.

I think this is a Calvinist vs. Others (usually Armenians) type of argument. I think that as far as the first contention is concerned (whether it be Augustine's or not), the issue is of a mainly predeterministic nature. The idea concerns the "Elect" and whether they have been predestined or not (ala Romans 8:29). It follows that those who weren't predestined cannot achieve this elect status. I also know that the Bible teaches in Titus 2:11:

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men."

I think that Hebrews 10:26 would be a starting point for arguing against eternal salvation.




To believe you can fall from grace is to start from a false presumption. The real question is: Was I ever in grace??

I generally like the premise stated here. I personally find it impertinent to investigate such things as eternal salvation, in so far as it applies practically to myself and others. Whether I come to a conclusion one way or the other . . . I don't know, it seems like I need to worry about other things.

[subterranean]

This is a question that many have wondered and has been equally debated. I myself am in doubt on this issue and would like some feedback on scriptural evidence of wether one can or cannot fall from Grace. I have read different things such as Galatians 5:4 "You are cut off from Christ, you who would have righteousness by the law; you are turned away from grace." And some would point this verse to show that, yes you can fall away from Grace but my own interpretation, both including this verse and its context, would have me believe that Paul is pointing towards the fact that the Law is not enough for one to have eternal salvation. I believe this becuase he also says in Galations 2:19-21: For I, through the law, died to the law, that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me. That life which I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. I don't make void the grace of God. For if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nothing!"

Interpretation of the scripture is a very interesting thing. I hope someone can explain to me and allow me to understand more fully the scripture.



Uhhh, I'm so not good at this. But let me try.



Romans 6:14-15
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid

I think it is cleary stated in these verses that no single law can "cleansed" you beside the grace of God. It is completely ok if you try to live according to the law (e.g. you don't steal) however, we probably need to understand deeper that the point these verses trying to point is that we have to acknowledge that the source of salvation is from God's grace only. Another point that can be taken from these verses is how this acknowledgement affects our actions. Suppose God expects us to do good deeds not as a form of obligation anymore, but as an expression of recognition and appreciation for the given grace.