Ok, I guess I'll start the Dracula thread.

[IWilKikU]

I got tired of waiting for someone else to do it.

I just finished the Jonathan Harker Journal Entries. Very chilling. I think that the book is creepier than the film, Dracula is alot more noble and refind. In the film they make him out to be a creepy old nasty looking dude. But in a way, the well-spoken nobleman is alot more disconcerting.

I was also impressed with Stoker's brief history of Romania/Transelvenia (hope I spelled that right). Also his intertextuallity is intreguing (I have the Penguin Classics edition, it has footnotes all over the place whenever anything intertextual is used. There's alot more of it than I would have realized).

So far, props to Stoker!

How far along is everyone else? I hope I'm winning!!!:D

[Azoic]

I'm about to start chapter 13. I want to re-read all of it though, because I think I've missed a lot. I might be able to agree about the chilling part, except I'm reading the version here while in a well lit room. Sorta takes away from the whole horror thing. All in all I have to say it's quite a good read.

[fayefaye]

well, I'm about to start ch. 15. I think it's pretty good so far too, but all those parodies of Count Dracula ruin it a bit for me: I keep thinking of phrases like 'I vant to suck your blood!!' and characters like The Count from sesame street and that chocolate cereal count, you know the one.... Anyways, it sort of takes away any horror involved. [makes it pretty amusing, actually]

[AbdoRinbo]

Count Chocula?

[fayefaye]

yeah, something like that. :D

[IWilKikU]

I think my favorite character so far is Mr. Swales, that old crusty sea-guy; pitty to see him go so soon. Fortunately, as I said before, my edition has all kinds of footnotes and annotation throughout, so I could translate what he was saying. If anyone is foggy on it, let me know and I'll post my footnotes on translation of Whitby vernacular.

I had heard somewhere that part of a vampire's traning and education is to read all of Shakespeare's plays to better understand human nature. I'm not sure where I heard this, but, thanks partly to my footnotes, I've found like 5 or 6 Shakespeare references- some obvious, some not - and I'm only up to Chapter 12. Does anyone know more about the vampire/shakespeare thing?

[crisaor]

Originally posted by IWilKikU
I think that the book is creepier than the film, Dracula is alot more noble and refind. In the film they make him out to be a creepy old nasty looking dude. But in a way, the well-spoken nobleman is alot more disconcerting.

I agree that the book is creepier than the film, but I think the exact opposite in regarding to Dracula's personality. Stoker's Dracula is an evil creature of the night, with no other qualities or characteristics other than being "the bad guy". Coppola adds a lot more layers to the character. The noble and refined person as you describe it is property of the movie, not the book. The movie presents him as an extraordinary character, in opposition to Harker, who's just a common man that does nothing but obeying his patrons. That's why Mina falls in love with Dracula in the movie SPOILER AHEAD (something that doesn't happen in the book), because Dracula's character is much more interesting, and has some redeeming attributes. The movie is about love, while the book is just a (great) story on good vs. evil.


Originally posted by IWilKikU
I think my favorite character so far is Mr. Swales, that old crusty sea-guy; pitty to see him go so soon. Fortunately, as I said before, my edition has all kinds of footnotes and annotation throughout, so I could translate what he was saying. If anyone is foggy on it, let me know and I'll post my footnotes on translation of Whitby vernacular.
Good one. The captain's journal is by far the most creepy part in the book. If it's not my favourite chapter, it's almost there .:)

[IWilKikU]

No no, not the captain of the Demeter. I'm talking about Swales. He's the crazy old bastard who talks to Mina and Lucy while they're sitting on the graves. He talks about how epitaphs are all lies. He's hillarious. Although, the Demeter's log is freekin' creepy! I agree with you on that point.

[Azoic]

Mr. Swales is alright, except for the sea-speak. Any help on what he's talking about would be appreciated kik, although I'm past that part, so I don't mind just assuming that I got some of it.

[Dick Diver]

In the book, Dracula never has a narrative to himself, does he?

He is a lot more chilling and suggestive because of this.

[IWilKikU]

havnt found one yet but I'm only on chapter 15.

I liked the sea talk. It was what made Swales' part so fun to read, but if you didn't have the resources to translate, I can see how it would be a pain.
Here's what Maurice Hindle has to say about Swales's sea speak.

The translations of Whitby dialect given are taken from F.K. Robinson, A Glossary of words used in the neighbourhood of Whitby (1875-6, the reference book Stoder used himself to write the dialogue.
P. 87
fash masel': fuss myself
feet folk: tourists who wlk, as opposed to those who ride in carriages.
creed aught: believe anything
crammle aboon the grees: hobble down the steps
belly timber: food
P. 88
bans an' wafts an' boh-ghosts an' bar-guests an' bogles an' all anent them is only fit to set bairns an' dizzy women a-belderin': Curses and ghosts and apparitions and harbingers of death and hobgoblins and all concerning them is only fit to set children and half-witted women a-crying
air-blebs: bubbles
beuk-bodies: learned people
skeer and scunner hafflin's: scare halfwits
quare scowderment: queer commotion
Yabblins!: Possibly!
glegs and dowps: horse flies and carrion crows

[IWilKikU]

If there's anything else that people either didn't get, or didn't catch the significance of, let me know and I'll see if I have a footnote for it.

[fayefaye]

Well, I've finished. Anyone feel like discussing the whole book, and posting up lotsa spoilers? Maybe I should start a spoilers thread where we can write about it without inhibitions?

I like Van Helsing. He's probably my fave character. It was too hard to understand Mr Swales.

[IWilKikU]

Now that I'm a little farther along, Van Helsing is definately my fav as well. When I posted that, Van Helsing had just been introduced. Swales was hard to understand and died off before there was any plot involving him, but I really loved his inclussion. Especially his confidential conversation with Mina explaining why he jokes about the dead. It showed a serious, thoughtful side to this crazy old bumpkin.

Oh and I think starting a spoilers thread is a great Idea. But after a couple weeks, it shouldn't be a spoiler thread anymore, as everyone should be finished. I'll be finished on Tuesday (7 hour transatlantic flight).

[fayefaye]

ok.. I'll leave the idea for a while.. if no-one's finished later I'll start a spoilers thread and let 'em rip. :) where you headed?

[Jay]

Kik, it takes you 7 hours to get huh, trans Atlantic ;), and it takes me almost 6 hours to get home every week, 312km (195 miles) btw...

[Azoic]

Thanks for the translations, Kik. I hope you enjoy your flight.

As far as characters go, I have to agree that Van Helsing is the best. I mostly glossed over what Mr. Swales said, on account of I couldn't understand it anyway. As for me, I'm going to finish reading the book (I'm somewhere abouts chapter 23 or 24, I think)

[IWilKikU]

Well, I flew home, to VA, and it was the worst flight ever! They killed the lights on me so I couldn't read. Than when my movie was over they didn't turn them back on, so I watched film previews for 2 hours <shudder>! And didn't finish Dracula. I'll finish today, I only have 2 chapters left.

[Azoic]

Tell me more of this alleged VA. I'm probably going to end up moving there in about 2 years (Norfolk area). Am I gonna have to watch out for weekly cross burnings (I read your post about bein' from the heart of the south, etc.), or is it pretty nice?

Oh, and the last 2 chapters of dracula are quite good. (to keep on topic...)

[IWilKikU]

LOL! No, I was heavily exagerating with the whole Ye-Haw thing. I live in a bit of a redneck town, but its not so bad. And Norfolk is really nice. Its kinda out of the big belt buckle loop.

Ok, I finished. Lay on the spoilers Faye!

[fayefaye]

ok! hooray!! SPOOOILLLLEERRRS!!!





Who didn't see it coming from a MILE off that drac would start coming after mina? As if it wasn't alluded to enough, either. 'Yeah. I think it was a great idea to leave Mina alone, out of this, without protection from the vampire. now she's safe for sure.'
And I don't think drac's death was nearly gruesome enough. I wanted LOTSA blood and horror. It was over too quickly and the chase took up too much time.

[crisaor]

Originally posted by fayefaye
Drac's death was over too quickly and the chase took up too much time.
Yes. That surprised me too. I guess I was expecting a bloody, big finale which never happened. A shame, really.

[IWilKikU]

The only thing that really surprised me is in the last chapter when Mina is feeding! That was hella cool. Agreed about D's death. Not horrible enough. I was expecting mega-horrorific blood and gore. Oh well.

[fayefaye]

Just not horrific enough generally, but we're probably desensitized to a lot.

[crisaor]

Assuming you're all finished with the book, what do you prefer? the book or the movie?

[IWilKikU]

BOOK! No contest

[fayefaye]

haven't seen the movie..........

[Gozeta]

I'd have to say the book also, it adds a certain character to dracula that you don't see in the movie.

[tequilero79]

Hey guys. I have a question that I can't seem to find an answer for anywhere. In Chapter 22, when they go to the Piccadilly house looking for D, it was in the afternoon. While they are there, D comes home and they try to kill him there. He then goes out the window into a barn behind the house. In an earlier chapter, Dr. Van Helsing states that D can only be out during the night, along with D’s other weaknesses. How is it possible for D to confront them in the middle of the day? Am I reading this wrong, or did I miss something along the way? Thanks in advance for your responses

[crisaor]

Originally posted by tequilero79
Hey guys. I have a question that I can't seem to find an answer for anywhere. In Chapter 22, when they go to the Piccadilly house looking for D, it was in the afternoon. While they are there, D comes home and they try to kill him there. He then goes out the window into a barn behind the house. In an earlier chapter, Dr. Van Helsing states that D can only be out during the night, along with D’s other weaknesses. How is it possible for D to confront them in the middle of the day? Am I reading this wrong, or did I miss something along the way? Thanks in advance for your responses
Hi tequilero. The fact that Dracula can't stand the sunlight is a common misconception. Stoker (through Van Helsing) does mention that his abilities are fairly dimished when standing in direct sunlight, but that doesn't destroy him or anything like that. He's weakened, but that's all.

[tequilero79]

Thanks for the response crisaor. I was thinking that It might have been my skewed view of Vampires based on what I've read from Anne Rice and from Movies and such.

[randolphmiles]

Don't forget Count Floyd... AWHHHHOOOOO...

[Emily*]

please help me understand what on earth mr swales is about, what is the significance of his character and why does he die so early?

[bigmark35]

who doesnt love dracula, especially around the ween

[hellsapoppin]

DRACULA!


I have always loved Dracula both in the movies and in literature.

One thing that has always been overlooked is how Dracula fits the definition of the tragic figure as expounded by Aristotle. The tragic figure is one who:

1) is of royal blood

2) has a quest

3) has an obstacle + cannot reach the quest

4) while facing death, he affirms life

5) is ultimately stopped by the obstacle


Dracula meets this criteria because he:

1) is a ''count'' (he was a prince in real life)

2) seeks immortality

3) has an obstruction in Dr Van Helsing

4) despite all his power, he cannot defeat his adversary, but persists

5) ultimately, he is destroyed by Dr Van Helsing



Another such figure is King Kong. He fits Aristotle's definition because:

1) he is ''King'' Kong

2) seeks to be King of the world atop the EMPIRE State Building

3) has an obstruction in humans

4) despite getting shot he pounds his chest and asserts himself

5) ultimately, he is killed by mankind (''twas beauty that killed the beast'')