Jihad

[bazarov]

I'm a Catholic, Christian, and I don't think that my religion is better than someone elses, but there are some things I don't understand. Maybe it's better to say I'm not familiar enough with them. I don't have nothing against anykind of people, no matter of thier race, nationality or religion.
So, what I need is an open minded Muslim who would, please, explain to me what is written is Ku'ran about holly war, Jihad; against anbody who is a threath to them. I don't know what is written in Ku'ran, I have never read it, but when I hear that someone who made suicide and took to death 20 people with them, is celebrated and people are praising Allah, saying he did that for his religion; I just can't belive in that!!! Is it wrong interpretation of Kur'an, or what, I don't know, so please, make it clear to me.
Logos, if you think that this could offend somebody, please delete it or close it. I will say again, I just don't understand some things, my attentoin is not to offend somebody. Thank you.

[Nightshade]

Ok first off Im going to say your going to have to bare with me because Jihad isnt a topic I am quite 100% on as it were ( sad truth is I have got quite that far with my reading) But I do know some things.

Actually maybe I should go off and research this properlly before I give you a reply. I want to be one hundred percent sure I am giving you exactly the right answer from the koran.

Ok off the question slightly but I guess this is as good a place to start as any while I find out the rest.
Martyrdom: basically you are a martyr if you die doing any of these things and obviously God decides you really are doing it for the right reasons.

1) You die fighting/ protecting your right to practice your religion (in this case islam but you get the idea)
2) You die protecting your family
3) you die by drowning or fire ( I think you also have to the name of God on your lips for this one)
4)You die protecting your living /livlihood.
5) You die when seeking knowledge ( this one was always my personal favourite if I died on the way to school Id go straight to heaven isnt that a great reason to go to school?:D)


Ok Im looking into exactly what Jihad is ... the problem is beacsue its such a touchy subject these days its not taught or really discussed at all.So I have some vague ideas but nothing solid. It might be mid-week before I can get back to you though as I have a busy weekend a head of me moving to univerity and all :D:D
:D

[Goodfella]

Well, to say a bit of myself now in this forum;I'm neither Muslim nor Christian for atleast this situation. But, what I can advise you is to elaborate your search into Islamic website. There are plenty of them that will gladly welcome such question. Google site will certainly provide them.

And moreover. To be frank (I don't intend to praise Islamic religion followers) Muslims are under hefty despression, thus, they can miscalculate the actual content of their Quran and do what they think they can afford to do purposely to espose a bit resistances to so-so country and their elites.

I hope this will help. Thanks.

[Shield&Sword]

Nightshade you forgot also the one who die because of Belly sickness, and the one who fall on him wall, and the one who die because of pest (Ta'oon in arabic). But all these wont be usefull if the person didnt pray his 5 times prayers, and didnt do what he must do (fardh) and wasnt muslim (even if you are muslim you must do Fardh).

[samah]

The things you siad are not jihad its al- shahada and they have levels like when you die deffending your country is not the same as you die drowning , al -jihad was simple issue but anymore not because of the muslims but because the other people who call themselves muslims to destroy the islam image just like bin laden these people are paid to do these things and al- jihad in qura'n is when you try to liberate your country if others took aover it it or when others try to force you to change your religion and its always the last solution .

[Nossa]

I'm a muslim...but as mentioned before I haven't had my fair share in reading about Jihad...since it's a big and complicated topic...and to tlak about it, I need to be 100% sure of what i'm saying..not to mention have lots of info. about it..
But to advice you...i'd tell you to go deeper into the topic yourself...try some Islamic websites..or some islamic translated books...i'm sure you'll find what you need...
You probably heard that before...but Islam's Jihad isn't about terrorizing peoepl..cuz I know this is the idea taken...

[Bita]

If you want to know more, why not read Ali Shariati's "Jihad and Shahadat"
Here is a link for the English text:
http://www.iranchamber.com/personalities/ashariati/works/jihad_shahadat.php
His "Red shi'sim versus black shi'sm" might be useful.

All I know is that Jehad (as in physically fighting) becomes compulsory for all muslims when their land is invaded.

Good luck

[Shield&Sword]

Bazarov i will try to find for you sites that explain better because my english language cant help me to explain better, interesting who was the first in history (a believer) who killed him self in order to kill others.

[Nightshade]

The things you siad are not jihad its al- shahada and they have levels like when you die deffending your country is not the same as you die drowning
I know that I just said this becausethe image of Jihad Ive seen reflected in the media is very often linked to martyrdom and I wanted to istablish that first.

ok intiatial research suggests ( and this is confirming what I already thought) Jihad doesnt mean war it is a way of life.
The word jihad is rooted in the arabic word that means strive and the only referance to jihad I can think of in ( my admittadly limted to under half) the koran is "Jahid fee sabeel allah" which literally means Strive in Gods cause. err As in live your life honouring Gods laws and His will.

Im still looking into it thuogh because it cant be that simple surley?
But thinking about this has brought back memories Id mostly forgotten of my mum sitting yelling at some man on the tv who was calling jihad a holy war.
But as she says if you want to find somthing dont look in one book dont look in 2 dont even look in 4. Look it up in 10 and if they all agree there is probably some truth in the statement, so its taking time :D .

[Amra]

Hello,

The idea of the "holy war" cannot be found in the Qur'an, nor is it supported by Islamic teachings. Jihad means to struggle, and refers to the person's inner fight against his or her own desire and temptations. This is called the great jihad as the Prophet Mohammed a.s said. War is never holy, but it is a reality that Qur'an acknowledges and sets guidelines for. It is never allowed to use war or violence for purposes of attacking, oppressing or torturing human beings. The only time that fighting a war is allowed is when a nation is defending itself, or when fighting oppression (to practice your religion, to live a dignified life as a human being, etc.) However, even during the time of such a war, it is never allowed to kill innocent people. Prophet a.s said:
"Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone."

Some verses from the holy Qur'an:

5-32

"if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people..."

2-190-191

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

22:40 Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is made, because they have been wronged - and Allah indeed has power to help them -

60:9 Allah forbids you not, respecting those who have not fought against you on account of your religion, and who have not driven you forth from your homes, that you be kind to them and act equitably towards them; surely Allah loves those who are equitable.

60:10 Allah only forbids you - respecting those who have fought against you on account of your religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and have helped others in driving you out, that you make friends of them, and whosoever makes friends of them-it is these that are the transgressors.

There is many more, but I think this shows that the concept of the "holy war" is not known to Islam, but is something that the West has invented to use as propaganda. There is nothing holy about killing innocent people, torturing, or oppressing them. However, fighting those who oppress you, who attack you, or who take away your basic rights, is a duty of any dignified human being. I hope this helps answer your question...

[bazarov]

Hello,

The idea of the "holy war" cannot be found in the Qur'an, nor is it supported by Islamic teachings. Jihad means to struggle, and refers to the person's inner fight against his or her own desire and temptations. This is called the great jihad as the Prophet Mohammed a.s said. War is never holy, but it is a reality that Qur'an acknowledges and sets guidelines for. It is never allowed to use war or violence for purposes of attacking, oppressing or torturing human beings. The only time that fighting a war is allowed is when a nation is defending itself, or when fighting oppression (to practice your religion, to live a dignified life as a human being, etc.) However, even during the time of such a war, it is never allowed to kill innocent people. Prophet a.s said:
"Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone."

Some verses from the holy Qur'an:

5-32

"if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people..."

2-190-191

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

22:40 Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is made, because they have been wronged - and Allah indeed has power to help them -

60:9 Allah forbids you not, respecting those who have not fought against you on account of your religion, and who have not driven you forth from your homes, that you be kind to them and act equitably towards them; surely Allah loves those who are equitable.

60:10 Allah only forbids you - respecting those who have fought against you on account of your religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and have helped others in driving you out, that you make friends of them, and whosoever makes friends of them-it is these that are the transgressors.

There is many more, but I think this shows that the concept of the "holy war" is not known to Islam, but is something that the West has invented to use as propaganda. There is nothing holy about killing innocent people, torturing, or oppressing them. However, fighting those who oppress you, who attack you, or who take away your basic rights, is a duty of any dignified human being. I hope this helps answer your question...

Thank you Amra, this is an excellent answer. ''There is nothing holy about killing innocent people, torturing, or oppressing them. However, fighting those who oppress you, who attack you, or who take away your basic rights, is a duty of any dignified human being'' Do you think that some people understand this words very very wrong or they are feeling threatened by some other mens or nations in that manner that they are ready to kill a lot of totally inocent peoples? What is the reason for such ''hate'' between shijit's and sunit's( sorry if I spelled it wrong)? They are both Muslims, but although there are some diferences beetwen their doctrine, is it really a reason to kill each other??

[bazarov]

You probably heard that before...but Islam's Jihad isn't about terrorizing peoepl..cuz I know this is the idea taken...

Idea is taken from who and from where?

[samah]

Thank you Amra, this is an excellent answer. ''There is nothing holy about killing innocent people, torturing, or oppressing them. However, fighting those who oppress you, who attack you, or who take away your basic rights, is a duty of any dignified human being'' Do you think that some people understand this words very very wrong or they are feeling threatened by some other mens or nations in that manner that they are ready to kill a lot of totally inocent peoples? What is the reason for such ''hate'' between shijit's and sunit's( sorry if I spelled it wrong)? They are both Muslims, but although there are some diferences beetwen their doctrine, is it really a reason to kill each other??

you mean Sunna and Shi'aa its not a hate or a fight just every group has its own opinions about some issues but the basics are the same they are both muslims and this was clear in the israelian attacks against lebanon last month and they said it was against hizb allah and its from shi'aa but all the muslims stood together but some people took advantage of these things and some other disagreements between the two groups to make it a big deal for thier own purposes just like in iraq and its like the chriatians have catholics and brotestants and other groups and all the fights that happened between these groups in Ireland .

[samah]

I know that and this thing of using religion as an execuse for all the bad things its a very old game just look at the crusaders they were killimg women and children in the name of christ ! Christianity and all religions have nothing to do with that its just people .

[optimisticnad]

I’ve found some research by Professor Jamal Badawi, acclaimed both in the eyes of Western and Muslim society, you can research on him if you want, he knows his stuff and writing is often scientific meaning he provides hard authentic evidence for his point.
So according to Prof Jamal Badawi:

Jihad is not holy war. He gives five reasons:

1. This is an English term, used by the Crusaders, it does not originate in the religion Islam and what is happening is what psychologists call projection.

2. No where in the Qur’an will you find the Arabic equivalent of holy war. Holy war in Arabic does not translate as Jihad, this is a common misconception especially amongst non-Muslims. Nor will you find the Arabic equivalent of Holy War in the saying of the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, his saying are called hadith.

3. Oxymoron: there is nothing ‘holy’ about destruction, death, blood, rape and killing of innocent women and children.

4. By definition ‘Holy War’ means one religion against another religion. In the religion Islam and nowhere in the Qur’an is there any mention that it is permissible for Muslims to fight with people of a different faith solely for that reason. Rather it should be because they are being oppressed or civil liberties eroded etc. etc. Muslims are not allowed to do to a non-Muslim what they can’t do to a Muslim, those who do so are not Muslims and have nothing to do with Islam.

5. And finally the term ‘Holy War’ has some glamour and appeal about it. But nowhere in the Qur’an is there glamorization of War. In the Qur’an chapter 2 verse 216 it says: ‘Fighting has been prescribed but it is hated’. Like divorce, which is permissible in Islam, but it is disliked. So similarly war should be the last option.



Jihad has nothing to do with terrorism and it is uneducated journalists who seem to be doing anything but their job: provide accurate and honest reports of the affairs of the world. Terrorism means any act that deliberately victimizes an innocent whether individual, state etc. etc. If it Islam than it has nothing to do with terrorism, and if it is terrorism than it has nothing to do with Islam even if they claim ‘in the name of God’. God has not told them to blow up and kill innocent victims for their religion.


So what is Jihad? It is to strive in something, exert maximum pressure to achieve something. In Islam there is such a thing as individual jihad, so if jihad means ‘war’ and something negative how can an individual do jihad? In Islam there is such a thing as jihad with the Qur’an, which is the holy book of Muslims, so how can you do jihad if it means something violent and death with the holy book of their religion? There are many kinds of Jihad and the two mentioned here have no relation with the battlefield therefore when talking about jihad the problem is distinguishing between which one is being discussed, for example, whenever I hear the word jihad mentioned on T.V it is always in relation to war and they even have the never to call it ‘holy war’ but this a) isn’t the meaning of Jihad b) there are many types of Jihad. I am slowly beginning to understand why my Muslim friends become outraged and angry-you have a few minority exploiting and killing in the name of their religion-totally wrong and condemned in Islam as it would be in any religion, and then you have the people outside totally taking things out of context, rephrasing and distorting information for their own individual gains.

I think with any religion you need to go back to the original and authentic sources to judge the religion because unfortunately, with every religion especially those referred to as the religion of book, the revealed religions-that of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad,-unfortunately the participators of these religions only follow a half baked religion and themselves distort and destroy the beauty with in their religion giving the rest of the world a negative view.

I just want to clarify one last thing, Sunni and Shia Muslims are not fighting because they have different views of the same thing, or that there is some variation, rather they are fighting because one side feels oppressed by the other, one side is trying to claim the land of another, one side has joined the ‘enemies’, those oppressing and killing innocent people and children-this is why they are in war, not because ‘I pray standing up and you pray sitting down’ meaning small differences in their religion.

Hope this helps and I’ve re-read what I’ve wrote to make sure I haven’t offended anyone/groups/religions. If I have…not my intention.

[Bita]

Idea is taken from who and from where?

If you mean suicide bombings, then it is simply a military technique: some drop bombs, some send suicide bombers. It is used by groups that are participating in armed struggle. Suicide bombings etc are not only used by muslims.

The word Jihad and holy war come into play when political islam is used to inspire and motivate the muslim masses: it can be done for a good cause or be worthless.:nod:

[bazarov]

I’ve found some research by Professor Jamal Badawi, acclaimed both in the eyes of Western and Muslim society, you can research on him if you want, he knows his stuff and writing is often scientific meaning he provides hard authentic evidence for his point.
So according to Prof Jamal Badawi:

Jihad is not holy war. He gives five reasons:

1. This is an English term, used by the Crusaders, it does not originate in the religion Islam and what is happening is what psychologists call projection.

2. No where in the Qur’an will you find the Arabic equivalent of holy war. Holy war in Arabic does not translate as Jihad, this is a common misconception especially amongst non-Muslims. Nor will you find the Arabic equivalent of Holy War in the saying of the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, his saying are called hadith.

3. Oxymoron: there is nothing ‘holy’ about destruction, death, blood, rape and killing of innocent women and children.

4. By definition ‘Holy War’ means one religion against another religion. In the religion Islam and nowhere in the Qur’an is there any mention that it is permissible for Muslims to fight with people of a different faith solely for that reason. Rather it should be because they are being oppressed or civil liberties eroded etc. etc. Muslims are not allowed to do to a non-Muslim what they can’t do to a Muslim, those who do so are not Muslims and have nothing to do with Islam.

5. And finally the term ‘Holy War’ has some glamour and appeal about it. But nowhere in the Qur’an is there glamorization of War. In the Qur’an chapter 2 verse 216 it says: ‘Fighting has been prescribed but it is hated’. Like divorce, which is permissible in Islam, but it is disliked. So similarly war should be the last option.



Jihad has nothing to do with terrorism and it is uneducated journalists who seem to be doing anything but their job: provide accurate and honest reports of the affairs of the world. Terrorism means any act that deliberately victimizes an innocent whether individual, state etc. etc. If it Islam than it has nothing to do with terrorism, and if it is terrorism than it has nothing to do with Islam even if they claim ‘in the name of God’. God has not told them to blow up and kill innocent victims for their religion.


So what is Jihad? It is to strive in something, exert maximum pressure to achieve something. In Islam there is such a thing as individual jihad, so if jihad means ‘war’ and something negative how can an individual do jihad? In Islam there is such a thing as jihad with the Qur’an, which is the holy book of Muslims, so how can you do jihad if it means something violent and death with the holy book of their religion? There are many kinds of Jihad and the two mentioned here have no relation with the battlefield therefore when talking about jihad the problem is distinguishing between which one is being discussed, for example, whenever I hear the word jihad mentioned on T.V it is always in relation to war and they even have the never to call it ‘holy war’ but this a) isn’t the meaning of Jihad b) there are many types of Jihad. I am slowly beginning to understand why my Muslim friends become outraged and angry-you have a few minority exploiting and killing in the name of their religion-totally wrong and condemned in Islam as it would be in any religion, and then you have the people outside totally taking things out of context, rephrasing and distorting information for their own individual gains.

I think with any religion you need to go back to the original and authentic sources to judge the religion because unfortunately, with every religion especially those referred to as the religion of book, the revealed religions-that of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad,-unfortunately the participators of these religions only follow a half baked religion and themselves distort and destroy the beauty with in their religion giving the rest of the world a negative view.

I just want to clarify one last thing, Sunni and Shia Muslims are not fighting because they have different views of the same thing, or that there is some variation, rather they are fighting because one side feels oppressed by the other, one side is trying to claim the land of another, one side has joined the ‘enemies’, those oppressing and killing innocent people and children-this is why they are in war, not because ‘I pray standing up and you pray sitting down’ meaning small differences in their religion.

Hope this helps and I’ve re-read what I’ve wrote to make sure I haven’t offended anyone/groups/religions. If I have…not my intention.

Thanks, this helps a lot. But I still have some questions? Who told them to make bombing suicide? Did they 'Imam' ( it would sound like that in my language) told them that?

[Virgil]

If you mean suicide bombings, then it is simply a military technique: some drop bombs, some send suicide bombers. It is used by groups that are participating in armed struggle. Suicide bombings etc are not only used by muslims.


I can't think of anyone else who uses suicide bombers. Could you name any?

[Shield&Sword]

Yes go and see Tamil in far east and how they suicide in order to get thier indipendence, Japanese used this teqnique in 2nd world war, and i think from there came the word Kamikaze (the one who drop him self with airplane into the enemy), in vietnam vitkong used this teqnique, they were putting bombs and drop thier selves between US soldiers.

Look bazarov i dont know if you are going to ask what these bombers eat on breakfast, and i dont know where you want to arrive with these q, but i think you got what you need about Jihad in islam, and you got a clear image about what is written in Holy Quran. Imam or not Imam who told them to do what they are doing is not the matter, the matter is if these persons follow the holy Quran and not.
And if you read Holy Quran and sayings of prophet pbuh you will find nothing about things you see today, but if you read bible you will find the first suicide person in history, do you know who is he? for sure you know the person who got his force in his hair, we call him Shamshoom, this man destroyed a building that was carrying i think 4000 persons and he made this building fall while he was also under it, 4000 civils, no suicide person could kill such people at once, only the jews believer did and he is considered a good person. Virgil here an example, did it come in you mind now? Suicide between civils is something you believe in.
I dont mention this story to bother you, but when i see these q you ask after other users gave explinations, make me think that you want to arrive to another thing, so i gave you an example from your own belief and perhaps you can think about it.

[cuppajoe_9]

The Tamils are muslim, are they not?

Off topic : what does pbuh mean?

[Amra]

Hello,

pbuh is an abbreviation for peace be upon him. It is said after one mentions any of the Prophets.

[cuppajoe_9]

Thanks bro.

[Virgil]

Yes go and see Tamil in far east and how they suicide in order to get thier indipendence, Japanese used this teqnique in 2nd world war, and i think from there came the word Kamikaze (the one who drop him self with airplane into the enemy), in vietnam vitkong used this teqnique, they were putting bombs and drop thier selves between US soldiers.


I was thinking about today. Is there anyone today other than Islamic terrorists who are blowing themselves up to kill others?

[subterranean]

I was thinking about today. Is there anyone today other than Islamic terrorists who are blowing themselves up to kill others?

I can't think any..

But...I might be wrong...So, if anyone has the answer....

[Madhuri]

I was thinking about today. Is there anyone today other than Islamic terrorists who are blowing themselves up to kill others?

Yes, it is actually the LTTE militants who use suicide bombers. They are an organisation that operates in Sri Lanka. And one of our Prime Ministers, Rajiv Gandhi was killed by a female LTTE suicide bomber.


Rajiv Gandhi's last public meeting was at Tiruttani. Rajiv Gandhi was assassinated in Sriperumbudur on May 21, 1991, a city close to Chennai, whilst campaigning for a UCPI candidate in Tamil Nadu. The assassination was carried out by the suicide bomber Thenmuli Rajaratnam (aka "Dhanu"). Dhanu was widely believed to have been a LTTE member, meaning that the act was carried out with the acknowledgement of the LTTE leadership. In 2006, this was implicitly confirmed by the LTTE when the top negotiator for the group, Anton Balasingham, told the private Indian channel NDTV that the killing was a "great tragedy, a monumental historical tragedy for which we deeply regret".[1][2]

In 1998 an Indian court convicted 26 people in the conspiracy to assassinate Gandhi. The conspirators, who consisted of Tamil Tigers from Sri Lanka and their Indian allies, had sought to stop Gandhi from getting elected in the then upcoming elections. They wanted to stop him from sending Indian troops into Sri Lanka as he had done in 1987 (where he was assaulted by a Sinhalese nationalist sailor, Wijayamuni Wijitha Rohana, while inspecting a guard of honour) to help enforce a peace accord.

Those troops ended up fighting the Tamil separatist guerrillas. His death brought the ailing Congress Party back into power in the 1991 general election on a similar wave of feeling as had followed his mother's assassination. He was awarded the Bharat Ratna posthumously in 1991. A magnificent memorial, christened Veer Bhumi was constructed at his cremation spot.



Suicide Bombers of LTTE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTTE#Suicide_bombers)

Suicide Attacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bombers)

Tamils are not necessarily Muslims.

Note: not to make this topic a political one, but just a reply that there are other groups also that follow the method of suicide bombers. Islamic terrorists maybe known more coz of their scale of operation, but they are not the only one.

[bazarov]

Look bazarov i dont know if you are going to ask what these bombers eat on breakfast, and i dont know where you want to arrive with these q, but i think you got what you need about Jihad in islam, and you got a clear image about what is written in Holy Quran. Imam or not Imam who told them to do what they are doing is not the matter, the matter is if these persons follow the holy Quran and not.


I really don't care are they eating chicken or corn flakes, I'm just asking who told them to do the bombing. I'm not accusing anybody, I'm just asking. Samson happened 3000 years ago, and if you really believe that one man could remove those piers, OK, because I don't, my ratio is in this case above my religion.

[Amra]

Bazarov,

You were given answers based on the Qur'an and the hadith about the islamic view on jihad. Everything else would just turn into a political discussion, and this forum doesn't tolerate those. We do not have an islamic country today in the world, and because of that, we do not have a khalifa (leader) who would have the power to give out orders that would be valid for the whole muslim world. Because of that, people follow their own ideologies, and many find ways to justify their objectives in ways that suits them best. As I said, suicide bombing has never been known in Islamic history until recently. Suicide itself is a grave sin, because only God can take a human life, and to kill yourself is a sign of disbelief.

[bazarov]

This is becoming too political thread, and although I haven't found out what really interested me, I asking you to stop right now. Thank you for your time and opinions. Bazarov:(

[Shield&Sword]

Tamil are not muslims.
I gave you samson as a leaders of suicide because you said you are a catholic, and i know that catholic believe in old test. I dont care if you believe this story or not, enough that it exist then (it couldbe a story of teaching, not neccessary to be existed in reality) such way of killing is OK at least for people who follow this book, samson was a believer a jews believer. And how you say it was 3000 years ago, then why you ask what written in holy Quran 1400 years ago.
So virgil, its not islamic terrorism, i think these who suicide read the story of samson, when you say islamic then it must be a phrase from Holy Quran and Hadeeths of prophet that people follow, if there is not then its not islamic even if muslims are doing it, exactly as when europian killed thousands in Latin America, and in Indians, africans, all was in name of Christianity, can we relaite it to christianity, yes we can but only if such teachings of killing exist in christianity. In our islamic case, killing 10 person by suicide does not exist in islamic teachings, killing old men and women and children, then we cant relaite it to islam, does such thing exist in Judhaism and Chrisitianity?, yes it does, read story of the good man samson. Try to be fair.

[Madhuri]

Tamil are not muslims.


Yes, they can be of any religion. Being a Tamil means a person inhabiting the Tamil lands, which is in South India and Northern region of Sri Lanka. It is like saying I am an Indian, coz I belong to this country and since India has so many religions so I can belong to any religion. In short, Tamils can be Hindus, Christians or Muslims.

Read Tamils (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamils#Religion)

[Amra]

Scheherzade,

If you are deleting references to political events from my post, than I think you should delete references to "islamic terrorists" from other memeber's posts. "Islamic terrorism" is a political term, and as such should not be allowed in the forum that doesn't allow policital discussions. Otherwise, you leave us with no possibility to counter such attacks on Islam when we are not able to mention the political events that in our eyes have caused "islamic terrorism". If a principle should be followed, than ANY reference to political events should be censored, not just those which offend the other side.

[Shield&Sword]

Thx Madhuri for the explination and site, but they are not fighting from an islamic background.
You are right Amra, and believe i knew this thread wasnt started to understand Jihad according Holy Quran, if you see what Mr. Bazarov wrote:
"So, what I need is an open minded Muslim who would, please, explain to me what is written is Ku'ran about holly war, Jihad; against anbody who is a threath to them." This was the purpose of the thread, users wrote to him what is written in Holy Quran, but he answered: "and although I haven't found out what really interested me".
I dont know what interest him, i think all what users wanted here to do is to relaited Islam with terrorism, as questions of bazarov say and as other users wrote (and wasnt deleted). But any way it wasnt bad, because we arrived to conclusion that the first terrorist was in bible, and he killed more than any other terrorist did. So this lead me to ask what bible say about terrorism and killing women and old men and babys and Sword (by the way Sword is a word mentioned by Jesus him self, and isnt mentioned in Whole Holy Quran). At the end our purpose is to refuse terrorism in all its forms begining with our beliefs, and our selves, am i right? So lets keep this thread in religious talk, far from political events.
Here i will try to make the thread back to religious talk:
In Mathew 10:34, can these words be the cause of the killing of Indians in america (not political, its history), also in Luke 12:49.
And In Luke 19:27 i understood killing of people without weapon, in other words killing of prisoners, please explain to me.
About the old test we will talk when we finish the new one.
I welcome any phrase from Holy Quran to explain.

[Madhuri]

Thx Madhuri for the explination and site, but they are not fighting from an islamic background.


You are welcome! :)

These links provide very good information, and also helps explain my point. I am sure you must have gone through those.

And, I was not refering to their cause at all, whether Islamic or otherwise. I was saying that they also use the method of suicide bombing, for their cause. And it was more an answer to Virgil's question, as he wanted to know if there are other organisations that use such methods.

I hope I am clear about what I was trying to say in my post.

[Scheherazade]

Amra> Your post has been edited because you made clear references to very recent and still on-going political events.

Shield&Sword> If it is your belief that this thread aims to relate Islam to terrorism, then please feel free to ignore it or not to post.

To All> This thread remains open in good faith of the moderators because its subject matter is very sensitive and can be easily corrupted/turned into a political discussion, which is not permitted on our Forum. We still would like to believe the genuineness of the initial inquiry and the informative replies it will get as we are all here to share and learn from each other. Off-topic and political posts will lead to thread closure.

[Shield&Sword]

Madhuri, i understood what you ment from the begining, i wrote that they are not fighting from an islamic background to other users.