Impossible!!!

[bazarov]

ILYWYBMW??WWBHUTEOOL!
Y!ILYT!

No, I'm not crazy...
I love you, will you be my wife??We will be happy until the end of our lives!
Yes! I love you to!

You remeber conversation like that between Levin and Kitty... I think it's one of the most bizzare things I've ever seen, and from so serious writer.:sick: But is there anyone( nobody will think he's crazy:lol: ) who thinks that conversation like that is possible??

[Idril]

ILYWYBMW??WWBHUTEOOL!
Y!ILYT!

No, I'm not crazy...
I love you, will you be my wife??We will be happy until the end of our lives!
Yes! I love you to!

You remeber conversation like that between Levin and Kitty... I think it's one of the most bizzare things I've ever seen, and from so serious writer.:sick: But is there anyone( nobody will think he's crazy:lol: ) who thinks that conversation like that is possible??

I completely agree but you know what? That actually happened! He's 'reliving' something that happened between him and his wife before they were married. He was thought to be interested in her older sister and he was trying to get across that he wasn't interested in her and he did exactly what Levin did, wrote down the initials, "y.y.a.y.t.f.h.r.m.c.o.m.a.a.t.i.o.h.f.m." which Sonya miraculously correctly translated to mean, "Your youth and your thirst for happiness remind me cruelly of my age and the impossibility of happiness for me" (she was quite a few years younger than him) and then he wrote "y.f.i.m.a.m.a.y.s.L.H.m.t.d.m.y.a.T." which meant "Your family is mistaken about me and your sister Lisa. Help me to defend myself, you and Tonya." I can't even begin to imagine how she did that, it just seems so ridiculous to me but I guess it actually happened. :confused:

[bazarov]

:confused: :eek: Destiny, I guess. Really interesting...Tonya is probably Sonya:D , his wife and mother of 13 children.

[Idril]

I don't know what that Tonya reference is about, she was actually Sonya's younger sister and the model for the character of Natasha in War and Peace along with Sonya, she was kind of a combination of the two but from what I can tell, Tonya was the dominate inspiration. Anyway, Tolstoy was particularly fond of her, maybe he was just worried that if he changed "horses" mid race, if he changed his focus from Lisa to Sonya, he would lose Tonya's respect?

The whole courtship of Levin and Kitty was very close to Tolstoy's courtship with Sonya and she was very pleased to see him include it in the novel. I wonder if it helped balance out the bitter resentment she felt when he later wrote about marriage in The Kreutzer Sonata.

[bazarov]

I havent' read The Kreutzer Sonata...Yet!! But I will...One day!!! Levin was thinking about suicide, maybe Tolstoy thought about it too. I can't imagine two persons knowing each other so well to have a conversation in that way...HI,HAY? Now you guess...:D

[Bita]

I havent' read The Kreutzer Sonata...Yet!! But I will...One day!!! Levin was thinking about suicide, maybe Tolstoy thought about it too. I can't imagine two persons knowing each other so well to have a conversation in that way...HI,HAY? Now you guess...:D

"HI,HAY?"
Hi Idril, How Are You?

[Idril]

"HI,HAY?"
Hi Idril, How Are You?

You know, I sat there for about 5 minutes thinking, "Do I know Bita? Why is she asking me how I am?" Man, I'm really not very bright sometimes. :blush: :lol:

I'm impressed you got that because I certainly didn't. I looked at it the first time and at least figured out it was code for something but nothing came to mind right away and I didn't have the time to really give it a lot of thought then I forgot all about it.


Levin was thinking about suicide, maybe Tolstoy thought about it too.

He did, sort of, fleetingly but I can't imagine that someone who thought so highly of himself would deprive the world of his presence. ;) I love Tolstoy, I think even better than Dostoevsky and I know that may sound like blasphemy to you, Bazarov ;) , but I really do find Tolstoy a more fluid read than Dostoevsky but Tolstoy had some serious issues and a high opinion of himself was one of them. :rolleyes:

[grace86]

When I read that part, I had a hard time believing that he had actually done the same thing in real life.

Hmm, maybe people could actually communicate like that...I mean, some couples complete each other's sentences...but that's easier.

Could have been divine intervention lol. Because Kitty was faithful and Levin was trying to find faith. I don't know I am just blabbing.

[bazarov]

"HI,HAY?"
Hi Idril, How Are You?

Brilliant!!!! Although it was very simple:lol: , brilliant!

[bazarov]

You know, I sat there for about 5 minutes thinking, "Do I know Bita? Why is she asking me how I am?" Man, I'm really not very bright sometimes. :blush: :lol:

I'm impressed you got that because I certainly didn't. I looked at it the first time and at least figured out it was code for something but nothing came to mind right away and I didn't have the time to really give it a lot of thought then I forgot all about it.



He did, sort of, fleetingly but I can't imagine that someone who thought so highly of himself would deprive the world of his presence. ;) I love Tolstoy, I think even better than Dostoevsky and I know that may sound like blasphemy to you, Bazarov ;) , but I really do find Tolstoy a more fluid read than Dostoevsky but Tolstoy had some serious issues and a high opinion of himself was one of them. :rolleyes:

Maybe Leo thought he was too good for this world!
In my opinion, Tolstoy is really a great great great writer, but he can't even sharpen pencils to Fyodor Pontifex Maximus Dostoevsky!:)

[Idril]

In my opinion, Tolstoy is really a great great great writer, but he can't even sharpen pencils to Fyodor Pontifex Maximus Dostoevsky!:)

I know you think that and that's alright, I can live with it. ;) :p I think of Dostoevsky as being a much heavier read, if that makes any sense and sometimes, that's exactly what I want, there are times when I love being challenged but I do find that when I read Tolstoy there is a sense of pure enjoyment that isn't there when I read Dostoevsky. Dostoevsky is more intellectual and Tolstoy is more emotional...at least for me.

[Bita]

You know, I sat there for about 5 minutes thinking, "Do I know Bita? Why is she asking me how I am?" Man, I'm really not very bright sometimes. :blush:

;) now you know me! n.t.m.y.!

[Bita]

Brilliant!!!! Although it was very simple:lol: , brilliant!

I'm glad you think so :D ... though it wasn't hard to guess from the question mark.

[Bita]

Maybe Leo thought he was too good for this world!
In my opinion, Tolstoy is really a great great great writer, but he can't even sharpen pencils to Fyodor Pontifex Maximus Dostoevsky!:)

Dostoevsky is simply one of the greatest writers. Certainly when it comes to philosophical and religious issues. However because of this - I think- he didn't focus on society (compared to Tolstoy and Dickens)- but more on the individual. Don't you think so?

I am not so sure cause I have only read his Crime and Punishment and Brothers Karamazov .

[Idril]

;) now you know me! n.t.m.y.!

Nice to meet you! Hey, what do you know, I got it. :D

Hi Bita! :wave:

I think Dostoevsky's focus was smaller than Tolstoy's in that he focused mainly on city life, the upper class while Tolstoy branched out a little more, telling stories about not just about city life and the upper class but also about peasants and about the Caucasus and the Crimean but I do agree that Dostoevsky delved a little deeper into his subjects than Tolstoy and he was a little more scathing in his critique of society and religious topics while Tolstoy was more of a recorder and left the reader to make his own judgements...for the most part, there are exceptions on both sides but those are the big, general impressions I get of each author.

[bazarov]

I know you think that and that's alright, I can live with it. ;) :p I think of Dostoevsky as being a much heavier read, if that makes any sense and sometimes, that's exactly what I want, there are times when I love being challenged but I do find that when I read Tolstoy there is a sense of pure enjoyment that isn't there when I read Dostoevsky. Dostoevsky is more intellectual and Tolstoy is more emotional...at least for me.

Yes, you're right, long live Leo!:)
It's just a matter a what somebody like...

[bazarov]

Dostoevsky is simply one of the greatest writers. Certainly when it comes to philosophical and religious issues. However because of this - I think- he didn't focus on society (compared to Tolstoy and Dickens)- but more on the individual. Don't you think so?

I am not so sure cause I have only read his Crime and Punishment and Brothers Karamazov .

Well, I think it's harder to focus on society if book with 500 pages is talking about one week happening(like Gambler or Crime and Punishment, Idiot is like couple of months, Demons also). The Brothers Karamazov are 850 pages about one month happening. I think society can't be changed in such a short time, so he focused his story on the individual.
On the other hand, War and Peace is 1300 pages which telling us story from 1805-1820 and society changes in 15 years, especially in war situation; with effects on the individuals also. Anna Karenina is also longer; she is leaving her husband, having Anne with Alyosha, Levin and Kitty get married with children... and there must be some society reflections on their life, with acceptations and rejections of their acts. But Tolstoy did also made some great individual work outs, like Levin, Pierre or Andrey.
Maybe his better that pencil sharper:lol:

[samah]

Well, I think it's harder to focus on society if book with 500 pages is talking about one week happening(like Gambler or Crime and Punishment, Idiot is like couple of months, Demons also). The Brothers Karamazov are 850 pages about one month happening. I think society can't be changed in such a short time, so he focused his story on the individual.
On the other hand, War and Peace is 1300 pages which telling us story from 1805-1820 and society changes in 15 years, especially in war situation; with effects on the individuals also. Anna Karenina is also longer; she is leaving her husband, having Anne with Alyosha, Levin and Kitty get married with children... and there must be some society reflections on their life, with acceptations and rejections of their acts. But Tolstoy did also made some great individual work outs, like Levin, Pierre or Andrey.
Maybe his better that pencil sharper:lol:

I think you are right about that but I'm with idrill I still prefer tolstoy , I read Anna Karenina when I was 14 and I got it :p it was simple and interesring but Dostoevsky you have to be mature with a certain mood to undrstand him :sick: , some of his books i even couldnt finish it ! and now I have to reread them all over again to see if I can go on with him now :bawling: , yes maybe Dostoevsky was a genius but Tolstoy is so great much greater than a pensil sharper. and about that wierd way of proposing I guess if someone proposed to me that way I would never understand these letters even if he translated them to me later I would turn him down .:D No just kidding :brow:

[Idril]

It's just a matter a what somebody like...

That's exactly it, there's no right or wrong, there's only personal opinon and preference. ;) I do have to say that though that no Tolstoy book has ever affected me quite like The Idiot, I don't believe Tolstoy could've written anything like that and Dostoevsky is so good at getting you into the minds of his characters while Tolstoy puts you more in the role of observer and I believe that's what makes Dostoevsky books much more intense, there's no separation between you and the devastation that accompanies all of his characters.

[samah]

:flare: I dare everybody here to guess this quote ( Its my favourite )


PASNAS

[bazarov]

:flare: I dare everybody here to guess this quote ( Its my favourite )


PASNAS

We have to guess what does it mean or what?

[olichka]

I don't know what that Tonya reference is about, she was actually Sonya's younger sister

Actually, it's Tanya, not Tonya, or, in full , Tatiana Kouzminskaya and, it's true, Tolstoy was very good friends with her, even when he was married to Sonya, to the point that Sonya began to resent it ! At first, Tolstoy was interested in Sonya's older sister Liza, but decided that she would not make a good mother because she was so interested in studyng.( Maybe he was right, can you imagine a woman with her own identity having 13 kids ?). Just goes to show that Tolstoy didn't respect a woman's intelligence : in W.and P., he actually refers to a woman's mind as a "tiny property" which some so-called "intelligent" women try in vain to expand (in contrast to "real" women who only strive to absorb the very best in a MAN), and in that novel and everywhere else he punishes the intelligent women. For example: Sonya (W.and P. ), Varenka (A.K.) become old maids, while Anna Karenina commits suicide, but the not-so-intelligent Natasha and Kitty go on to have happy lives.

[ex ponto]

... and Dostoevsky is so good at getting you into the minds of his characters while Tolstoy puts you more in the role of observer and I believe that's what makes Dostoevsky books much more intense, there's no separation between you and the devastation that accompanies all of his characters.

Bravo! Beautifully said!

[ex ponto]

I think Dostoevsky's focus was smaller than Tolstoy's in that he focused mainly on city life, the upper class

Not only on the upper class. Just remember what Raskolnikov's hat looked like. It had no brim.

[fjkdsi]

you guys playing secretary?