help with figuring out some key ideas in the novel

[vahnashe]

i was wondering what exactly is the "fascination of the abomination". I know it is described as " - you know, imagine the growing regrets, the longing to escape, the powerless digust, the surrender, the hate." But is it meaning like the darkness of the world and humanity? if i understood this more i could understand how it realtes more to his journey to and from the Congo.

Another question i have is as the narrator described, Marlow's story does not contain a kernel of truth and that it envelopes you like haze and the more you look for the truth the harder it is to find. Is the pervasive truth that Marlow discovers in the novel that he must look into his own heart of darkness to discover what he wants to find?

[2HousePlague]

I think "fascination of the abomination" is a modern term. It relates to a loss of civilization. In the novella, the trip down the river is the metaphor for that process. It is also atavism, decay. We have imagery for this in many movies. The civilized man who removes his city clothes and goes to dwell with beasts in the wilderness. It's cliche. When we discover these wayward sons, they always look the same...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20010824/226apoc24.jpg

It is not so much a degeneration, as a transformation.


... Is the pervasive truth that Marlow discovers in the novel that he must look into his own heart of darkness to discover what he wants to find?

Of course.

[Virgil]

IIt is not so much a degeneration, as a transformation.

What makes you think it is not a degeneration? Marlow talks at the beginning about going back into time, about the Romans finding a primitive people. That and the general characterization of the natives as primitive and the dichotome of civilization versuse savagery all tend for me to think that Conrad had degeneration in mind.

[2HousePlague]

What makes you think it is not a degeneration? Marlow talks at the beginning about going back into time, about the Romans finding a primitive people. That and the general characterization of the natives as primitive and the dichotome of civilization versuse savagery all tend for me to think that Conrad had degeneration in mind.

To see it as "descent" is a subejctive decision, that depends on your perspective. It's popular to believe that civilization is the height, and that wildness is the depth, and that to go from one to the other is necessarily a degeneration. But, it is also possible to acknowledge that the "ancient primitives" were possessed of a kind of intelligence we have obviously lost, and that is the capacity to exist sustainably in nature. Plus, we romanticize the "savage", whether we are looking backwards in time to our more primitive forebears, or forwards in time at ourselves... as we would be if we were to stumble from this present height. In both cases, we see in the primitive a kind of freedom of existence we cannot enjoy in modern civilization. The savage is ever-present inside us. When we are trying to muster a feeling of superiority, we lower and repudiate him. But, when we are alone in private in our own heads, how we envy the wild man.

[Virgil]

To see it as "descent" is a subejctive decision, that depends on your perspective. It's popular to believe that civilization is the height, and that wildness is the depth, and that to go from one to the other is necessarily a degeneration. But, it is also possible to acknowledge that the "ancient primitives" were possessed of a kind of intelligence we have obviously lost, and that is the capacity to exist sustainably in nature. Plus, we romanticize the "savage", whether we are looking backwards in time to our more primitive forebears, or forwards in time at ourselves... as we would be if we were to stumble from this present height. In both cases, we see in the primitive a kind of freedom of existence we cannot enjoy in modern civilization. The savage is ever-present inside us. When we are trying to muster a feeling of superiority, we lower and repudiate him. But, when we are alone in private in our own heads, how we envy the wild man.
That's all fine and dandy. Some day when you write a novel, that's the implication you should put into it. But what did Conrad intend, and I think the implication from the novel is Conrad intended a degeneration.

[2HousePlague]

That's all fine and dandy. Some day when you write a novel, that's the implication you should put into it. But what did Conrad intend, and I think the implication from the novel is Conrad intended a degeneration.

lol -- you asked for it, my novel blog (http://rex.mywordsontheweb.com/) -- :nod:

[Virgil]

Cool. I wish you luck with the novel. I would love to read it, but I find extensive reading on a computer screen difficult.

[Kaitlyno2]

I just wanted to comment on what 2house said,
You mentioned its clique ~"The civilized man who removes his city clothes and goes to dwell with beasts in the wilderness."
I don't think you can call anything in Heart of Darkness a clique, maybe the Theme is a clique now for us, but Heart of Darkness was a revolutionary and certainly a new book for its time. What I am trying to say is that anything else with that Theme "The civilized man who removes his city clothes and goes to dwell with beasts" is a clique but not Heart of Darkness.
Although I had never thought about degeneration as a transformation :idea: , so that is a very interesting point, Thanks! :thumbs_up

[ShoutGrace]

nevermind . . . blah.