Literature:How it serves in Europe,America & Asia

[muhsin]

It’s almost globally known that: Whenever one is doing something, be it good or bad, this person thinks that it’s good so he does it. And he also thinks that it serves greatly to him in accomplishing something.

Now about three to four years, since I started experiencing what really is literature, I’ve been looking forward to its role in the whole world. I started from my continent-Africa, and then I gathered that it really served applaudably, e.g. as the truthful, fruitful and unarmed weapon of fighting for freedom from slavery until to independence. But contrary to my thinking, when I take a look at how it does serve in Europe, America and Asia, I eventually found nothing to be proudly said.

Well, my fellow good people, I don’t actually meant that literature does serve nothing in these continents, no! But I’m still incapable of figuring that out, so ‘m now asking for that please. I hope massive response will be followed.

[SleepyWitch]

Hi Muhsin, :wave: to Nigeria
i think it depends on what movement or author you're talking about...
in Germany there've been lots of different eras of literature... some writers were very keen on pointing out problems like social inequality, violence etc (some of these books are pretty boring to read, coz you can read about the same things in a paper, some are very interesting, just depends on the style)...these books don't really have any direct influence on politics etc, though... plus, underprivileged people don't read books in their free time anyway, so writing about them doesn't really influence their lives or the way they feel about their situation...
others just wrote the usual love/marriage stories...
(I'm grossly simplifying)

as for the function of literature in society, most intellectuals take it for granted that reading high-brow literature is essential for your "education" and will turn you into a better person... never mind that there's no evidence of that... often those same intellectual people just read books because it's considered an "educated" thing to do, but they never think about what it says in the books or how it relates to their lives....

[SleepyWitch]

PS:
also in middle-class circles there's a conviction that only old books are real literature (e.g. Goethe and Schiller). for example, in our English Lit final exams at univ we are not allowed to talk about any authors who wrote prior to 1950!!!!
the assumption being that you can only judge a book "objectively" if there's a certain temporal distance between the time of its publication and the time you live in..... (theoretically this might make some sense, but it also means, we'll have to teach our pupils only about old books and they'll find them boring...)

[Pensive]

In Pakistan, many languages are spoken which are: Urdu, Punjabi, Sirayki, Pushto, Balochi, Sindhi and Pothwari, though these languages are to some extent similar to each other but each has produced different authors.

But as far as I think that most of the Pakistani good Literature consisted of Urdu, Punjabi and Sirayki Literature, though I can't be sure because I have never tried any authors by all other languages I have mentioned, nor I know these languages.

Especially, Urdu Literature played a great part in Pakistan's history, mainly when Pakistan and India parted, we had sone good authors. Allama Iqbal, who is our national poet did his contribution to Pakistani Literature in form of good poetry, nice rhyme and rhythm and in his own tried to teach Muslims to wake up (I will not say that I agree with all he wrote but I will say that his ideas were strong and powerful). Sadiq Hussan Minto, the most revolutionary author, Pakistan ever produced wrote touching short stories based on the society's draw backs. And there were a few other authors who did quite a good job but they were few, should have been more!

[muhsin]

Hello Sleepywitch.

Yes, you have quietly responded my question with a lucid explanation. Thanks.
Have you ever read an African literary work? I think you have not, so, is good to get one and read it; they are such a lit. work that well I don't know what word I should use in telling their usefulness to not only Africans but to all.

Again. Why most of European novels are about LOVE? Is it the problem that is irking you people? Why not traditional, religious, political, etc affairs?

[SleepyWitch]

Hello Sleepywitch.

Yes, you have quietly responded my question with a lucid explanation. Thanks.
Have you ever read an African literary work? I think you have not, so, is good to get one and read it; they are such a lit. work that well I don't know what word I should use in telling their usefulness to not only Africans but to all.

Again. Why most of European novels are about LOVE? Is it the problem that is irking you people? Why not traditional, religious, political, etc affairs?

can you recommend any African authors who either write in Eglish or have been translated?
i used not to care about African things too much, but I'm a bit more interested in your continent now, due to the footie world cup and stuff...

hum... i don't really know why so many authors write about love.... i think that's typical of the 18th/19th c. because at that time, you were supposed to marry the first "suitable match" that came along. you were supposed to marry somebody from the same or a higher social class. these ideas were in conflict with the idea of "romantic love", so they gave people lots of neuroses and it was an important topic for them.... also of course, it was mainly women who read novels when this genre first developed... women weren't supposed to read anything unsuitable, so there are lots of novels where the women end up marrying a suitable husband after some tribulations and everyone is happy.... (this is especially true for English novels, I think. In French ones there's a lot more open adultery and affairs, which doesn't mean they approve of them, it's just discribed more openly than in English novels).
there are lots of other kinds of novel, though.... e.g. Dickens is seen as Englands moral conscience or something... he wrote about poor people a lot...
then there's a famous French 19th c. author, Zola, who wrote about lots of dire things...
also, German naturalists and realists wrote a lot about lower class people....

i do think Love irks us more than people in non-Western countries, though... the concept of "romantic love" was invented in Europe... so marriage isn't seen as an economic expedient or a matter of supporting each other financially, work-wise etc... there has to be "love" involved and this often clashes with more practical issues....
plus, finding a partner and establishing a "shared identity" is seen as a "development task" by some psycholgoists (development as in personal development, not so-called "third-world" development)... this makes some sense... coz the paradigm in our societies is that you can only have a fulfilled life if you find "love" and have a steady partner.... so there is a lot of pressure on the individual to comply with this paradigm... so this causes stress for people who can't find a partner or dunno who's the "best" partner for them and by what criteria....
whereas in more "traditional" countries, people's parents will look for a suitable match, marry their children off: sorted! once they are married they can direct their energies to other activities....
also, some people in the North have more time to think about these issues, because they don't have to work 12/16/18 hours a day like many people in the developing world...

hehe, that was just an amalgam of some bits and pieces i picked up in different classes.. maybe there's someone on here who's studied these things in detail and can put them on a sound theoretical foundation???

[mono]

In the United States, literature may have a few possible roles. Though I know a few parts of my country do not seem as literate as others (Portland ranking as one of the most literate cities), I see literature particularly playing a role of representation. Of course, not to delve too far into politics, many . . . things in my country seem to exist in a constant state of transition, deciding fully upon nothing, and what seems decided upon, various conflicts stem from that disagreement and . . . yet more flux and transition. Literature, to me, represents each person's possible beliefs, mindstates, moods, motives, past, and intended future.
A great number of people in my area, I have noticed, also read for the mere purpose of knowledge. Often, I peruse a nearby bookstore, picking up books in my finicky manner, I question 'why do I want to read this?' or 'what first allured me to this book?' For myself, the question usually consists somewhere along the lines of desire for knowledge and insight. Of course, books cannot offer the full indepedently-found wisdom, at least not in my opinion, but can offer, at least, a recognition, awareness, and knowing of one's self and surroundings.

[SleepyWitch]

I've thought of another role of literature in Germany...
these days (especially since the 60s when we had a revolutionary student movement; related to the one in the U.S. but with some different/additional aims and ideas) we have an adjective that translates as "critical-of-society"...(sozialkritisch for the benefit of native speakers)

so if a work of art can be called this adjective, it is considered "good" because it has a "purpose" or a "message"... "critical-of-society" is when you criticize current conditions in order to improve them according to the ideals of humanism...

there's a general agreement among some critics and certain sections of the society (not necessarily "revolutionary" people.. it's mainly posh and intellectual people in fact) that all works of art/literature should be "critical-of-society".. however, this doesn't mean artists are expected to have revolutionary ideas and throw over the government. also suggestions to change our society in any major, radical, significant way, are not really welcome and actually don't count as "critical-of-society"....

the problem with some "critical-of-society" books is that they express things in a very unliterary, blunt, straightforward (i.e. typically German) way and that can be quite boring and too obvious to be interesting to read (THIS IS ONLY MY PERSONAL IMPRESSION... in fact, I a v o i d reading this kind of book, so i can't really judge; maybe this kind of book doesn't even exist and I made it up from the horrible books summaries teachers gave us in school)...
i mean, and that's another personal opinion, why would i want to read about social problems in a novel, if i can watch the news or read a newspaper to learn about them? also, i have to study social problems in Geography classes, so when i come home in the evening, i want to r e l a x and not read about them all over again... it's not that i don't care about them, but i just can't spend 24/7 learning and ranting about social/political etc issues.
also, it very much depends on how the book is written... e.g. i love "A suitable Boy" by Vikram Seth because it's about personal matters plus Indian history (Independence) plus politics... it's such fun to read about Gandhiji and pandit Nehru etc in this book, but that's partly due to the fact that the style is like that of a proper novel. plus the politics and history serve as a background for the personal stories. they are the main issue in many ways, but it doesn't constantly say "Politics is so important you have to take this book seriously and think about it".

plus, in Germany, there's this way of seeing people mainly as political beings (enlightened citizens who spend all their time "participating" and being "responsible, mature adults")... but then in real life, people also spend a lot of time just eating, drinking, dancing, scr*wing, meeting up with friends, etc.. i know all these things are influenced by politics and are inseparable from them, BUT it's just boring to think about this aspect all the time....
so, I think it's OK to read about stupid things like LOVE once in a while because nobody can be expected to read ONLY "problem novels".... so the German obsession with a) "critical-of-society" and b) "education"/ "valuable" books/"classics" is a bit misguided in my opinion because nobody can be expected to exclusively read difficult books... (this expectation is one of the reasons German pupils don't like reading and German lessons)


- wow, I've waffled so much... i think you've hit a nerve there Muhsin :) hope i didn't bore you

[amanda_isabel]

literature here in the philippines.

well i'm not sure if this is the type of answer you're looking for or what, but anyway, literature was (kinda) part of why the Philippines was able to gain its freedom from Spain centuries ago.

word was spread through, of course, news, etc., but those leading, i think, were novels, especially those by Dr. Jose Rizal. 'Noli Me Tangere', 'El Filibusterismo', and 'Mi Ultimo Adios' relate how the Filipino people were treated by the Spaniards, and are still widely read today.

i hope i gave you an answer, muhsin...

[PeterL]

When considering the types of literature that is from different parts of the world, you should remember that the books that you can find in stores don't reflect everything that is written; they reflect what has been published. Publishers have their ideas of what will sell, and that is what gets published.

It is my opinion that people write about what is important to them. It is the universality of the theme of a piece of literature that makes it popular, or not. In the United States there are people of many backgrounds, and there aren't many areas in which there is general agreement. Taken together that means that literature in the US has a tendency to be very general in its appeal, so novels about life, love, security, and the mysteries of life tend to be popular, but there are many other kinds of novel publlished. Many ideas that are considered important in some parts of the world are not significant in the US.

[muhsin]

Thanks to all those that have contributed on this very topic.

I would also like to hear the out-comes-result I mean of their writing. Is it as successful as it was here in Africa?

Actually, hadn’t been literature in existence, then, I don't know how we-African would find ourselves in present live, so thanks to literature giants. As I said earlier, it's such an unarmed weapon (more especially poetry) our for-fathers used in saying NO to colonial masters and to authoritarian leaders who control all facets of their national life and also all those public administrators who broke the promise in their public duty of accountability and responsibility.

What's the result-successful or otherwise?

[genoveva]

Now about three to four years, since I started experiencing what really is literature, I’ve been looking forward to its role in the whole world. I started from my continent-Africa

Can you recommend some good African poets?

[genoveva]

One overall theme/purpose must be illustrating injustice.

injustice: violation of a person's rights; unfairness, an unjust act or deed: wrong

(thanks Merriam-Webster Dictionary!)

All literature (in general, all over the world) points out what is unfair in the world. In my opinion, this is a universality.

[Woland]

Chinua Achebe said (paraphrasing) that (pan) african story-telling traditions always served a purpose to the community; to instruct, to enlighten or warn the community. Not to say that the art of the griots (jeli) or other forms aren't beautiful but that creating art as an excersize in asthetics alone was not an african tradition.

I see artists like Ngugi wa Thiongo, Achebe and Soyinka (along with many others) as following in the footsteps of the griots, as advisors and counselors. Naturally, topics such as nation building after colonial occupation, establishing a post colonial identity and shedding light on internal corruption are going to be great concerns for these writers.

[muhsin]

Hello Genoveva!

Can you please rephrase your writing a little bit more lucid? This will really help.

[mono]

One overall theme/purpose must be illustrating injustice.
Coming from a fellow Oregonian, I cannot agree more!
To answer muhsin's question, nothing quite seems more suitable than injustice. Indeed, I agree how literature may promote a kind of ethics that either inspires people to act inheritably good, or, though stated in an odd way, desensitizes a person to a diversity of ethics.

[alshadai]

PS:
for example, in our English Lit final exams at univ we are not allowed to talk about any authors who wrote prior to 1950!!!!


Oh I do hope your class has a Post-Modern section available for taking later... studying post 1945 literature is a wonderful way to understand how the world works today.

My primary interest is post-1945/WWII literature because it took on such a complex and different role as any other literature era has before. I have yet to see a great affect on South American or African literature but to be honest I have not studied it greatly in these areas. In Japan literature took a turn from art form to expression form. It went from "passing down literary greatness" to "expressing the troubled youths of our generation". American lit took this same great turn. After WWII a lot of hope was ripped away and a lot of cultures and societies had to rethink themselves. Literature became a means of expression, statement, and philosophizing. The Beat Movement was an active rejection of middle American values. There was also a movement in Japan (I'm unsure if it is named) regarding the rejection of traditional Japanese values. It is fascinating to watch Japanese literature follow directly in American literary footsteps and see how much WWII influenced all of this change!

[muhsin]

That sound thoughful.

[subterranean]

when I take a look at how it does serve in Europe, America and Asia, I eventually found nothing to be proudly said.

When was when? I'm curious

[muhsin]

Curious, uh? About what? This expression......I think there is nothing twisted here. Ok?

[muhsin]

I would also like to hear the out-comes-result I mean of their writing. Is it as successful as it was here in Africa?

Well, I have asked this (above) question in my post before, but nobody did try to answer it. Why? No answer? Am waiting.....ok?

[mono]

I would also like to hear the out-comes-result I mean of their writing. Is it as successful as it was here in Africa?
Do you mean in terms of publication? If so, I answer with a big 'no.' Even in my metropolitan area, alone, there exist many countless writers who either keep their work to themselves (like me :D), attempt publication (yet never succeed), or earn publication.
If your question asks of another 'success,' such as the success of the author getting his/her point across to the readers through literature, my answer would have to claim 'I do not know.' Many books, especially best-sellers, these days seem read mostly for entertainment and amusement; I think it safe to say that most contemporary books of this fashion have little intention of the reader other than amusement. A few books seem of worthy mention, however, of which I would say, 'yes, the author did succeed in getting his/her word across to the reader.'

[stlukesguild]

Excuse me if I have taken the question here in the wrong way, but it seems as if what is being asked is "what is the purpose or value of literature?" If I were in one of my more sarcastic moods I might merely quote Oscar Wilde (who was never wrong about anything :D) and simply reply, "All art is quite useless." While their are undoubtedly works of literature in which the expressed goal of the author was to address some percieved social ill (one might think of Plato, Rousseau, Blake, Brecht, and many more) and doubt that many still hold with the notion that simply being exposed to fine or great art is any guarantee of producing an enlightened individual or enacting change for the better. We are all aware that the Borgias, Orsini, De Medici, and Barberini were among the most sophisticated connoiseurs of art... music... and literature. So were the Nazis. This did not prevent them from being equally sophistcated and rapacious purveyors of murder and mayhem.

To my mind there are two brilliant statements upon the worth or value of literature which forever ring true with me. The first... or elder... is by Walter Pater... and consists of the final paragraphs (with a few brief omissions) from his conclusion to The Renaissance: Studies in Art and Poetry:

The service of philosophy, of speculative culture, towards the human spirit, is to rouse, to startle it to a life of constant and eager observation. Every moment some form grows perfect in hand or face; some tone on the hills or the sea is choicer than the rest; some mood of passion or insight or intellectual excitement is irresistibly real and attractive to us,–for that moment only. Not the fruit of experience, but experience itself, is the end. A counted number of pulses only is given to us of a variegated, dramatic life. How may we see in them all that is to seen in them by the finest senses? How shall we pass most swiftly from point to point, and be present always at the focus where the greatest number of vital forces unite in their purest energy?

To burn always with this hard, gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life. In a sense it might even be said that our failure is to form habits... While all melts under our feet, we may well grasp at any exquisite passion, or any contribution to knowledge that seems by a lifted horizon to set the spirit free for a moment, or any stirring of the senses, strange dyes, strange colours, and curious odours, or work of the artist’s hands, or the face of one’s friend. Not to discriminate every moment some passionate attitude in those about us, and in the very brilliancy of their gifts some tragic dividing of forces on their ways, is, on this short day of frost and sun, to sleep before evening. With this sense of the splendour of our experience and of its awful brevity, gathering all we are into one desperate effort to see and touch, we shall hardly have time to make theories about the things we see and touch. What we have to do is to be for ever curiously testing new opinions and courting new impressions, never acquiescing in a facile orthodoxy of Comte, or of Hegel, or of our own...

One of the most beautiful passages of Rousseau is that in the sixth book of the Confessions, where he describes the awakening in him of the literary sense. An undefinable taint of death had clung always about him, and now in early manhood he believed himself smitten by mortal disease. He asked himself how he might make as much as possible of the interval that remained; and he was not biassed by anything in his previous life when he decided that it must be by intellectual excitement, which he found just then in the clear, fresh writings of Voltaire. Well! we are all condamnes, as Victor Hugo says: we are all under sentence of death but with a sort of indefinite reprieve–les hommes sont tous condamnes a mort avec des sursis indefinis: we have an interval, and then our place knows us no more. Some spend this interval in listlessness, some in high passions, the wisest, at least among "the children of this world,” in art and song. For our one chance lies in expanding that interval, in getting as many pulsations as possible into the given time. Great passions may give us this quickened sense of life, ecstasy and sorrow of love, the various forms of enthusiastic activity, disinterested or otherwise, which come naturally to many of us. Only be sure it is passion–that it does yield you this fruit of a quickened, multiplied consciousness. Of such wisdom, the poetic passion, the desire of beauty, the love of art for its own sake, has most. For art comes to you proposing frankly to give nothing but the highest quality to your moments as they pass, and simply for those moments’ sake.

The other... far more brief... is from Anna Quindlen, from her essay, How Reading Changed my Life:

Books are the means to immortality:
... Through them we experience other times, other places, other lives. We manage to become much more than our own selves. The only dead are those who grow sere and shriveled within, unable to step outside their own lives and into those of others. Ignorance is death. A closed mind is a catafalque.

[muhsin]

Do you mean in terms of publication? If so, I answer with a big 'no.' Even in my metropolitan area, alone, there exist many countless writers who either keep their work to themselves (like me :D), attempt publication (yet never succeed), or earn publication.
If your question asks of another 'success,' such as the success of the author getting his/her point across to the readers through literature, my answer would have to claim 'I do not know.' Many books, especially best-sellers, these days seem read mostly for entertainment and amusement; I think it safe to say that most contemporary books of this fashion have little intention of the reader other than amusement. A few books seem of worthy mention, however, of which I would say, 'yes, the author did succeed in getting his/her word across to the reader.'

This is good of you.You have almost answer my question.
As you above here said that you have written a literary piece, but you eventually keep it to yourself. How is it so? Is publication an expensive work up there? I mean fund ok?

[mono]

As you above here said that you have written a literary piece, but you eventually keep it to yourself. How is it so? Is publication an expensive work up there? I mean fund ok?
No, not that I know of, publication does not seem an expensive process, though I know little about the process and method. A writer can always publish something by himself/herself, as Thomas Hardy once attempted, which, indeed, would cost an immense amount of finances, but, through a professional publication company, I feel unsure what a writer loses in funds.
As for my own work, I merely mentioned it as an example that some writers choose not to even attempt publication, due to a plethora of reasons (sometimes shyness :p).

[muhsin]

Ok. I have gotten you right now.
But, I would really like to know what work have you worked out. Is it a novel?
You may ask why did I ask this question, the reason is that: I too have almost finnished one work here, but what I am only waiting is editing. So, what advice should you give me? How to follow this process. To who and who should I take it for this work(editing)?

[mono]

But, I would really like to know what work have you worked out. Is it a novel?
You may ask why did I ask this question, the reason is that: I too have almost finnished one work here, but what I am only waiting is editing. So, what advice should you give me? How to follow this process. To who and who should I take it for this work(editing)?
Hmmm, again, I may seem the wrong person to ask this question, as I know little of the editing and publication process. To my knowledge, I think many publication companies have editors working for them, and, even while attempting publication, you can get your work edited. Having not a lot of special knowledge or experience in the subject, I would recommend searching what nearby cities have to offer, and do not feel afraid to ask other people, too (such as school instructors or professors). In general, I believe the whole process of publication can require some time, but if you desire it enough, the wait seems worth the time spent in anticipation.
As for myself, no, I have never written a novel (though I have a possible idea in the near or distant future), but I mainly write plays (the third in progress, presently), a collection of short stories, and notebooks full of poetry. With neither of them have I attempted publication, or placing them on a theater stage, and I feel unsure if I will, but time may change things.
Good luck, muhsin, and I apologize I could not help more. ;)

[genoveva]

If you really want to sell a publication, you need to find a publisher who will market it. If you haven't already found a publisher, this is the first thing you need to do. Perhaps you can look on the web, or better yet, look at books whose format you really like and contact them. You really need to do a lot of research into the market (does your book fit into a genre?) and decide on which publisher to try first. I assume you are living in Africa. Never having been there, I do not know what the publishing industry is like there- so am no help there. Like mono said, I too suggest having proofreading savy friends edit your book first- and a few times before you actually send it off to a publishers. The first impression is important.

Good luck!

[muhsin]

Thanks for your hints Genoveva and Mono. I 'll by God's grace look for that.
Thanks once again.

[SleepyWitch]

Oh I do hope your class has a Post-Modern section available for taking later... studying post 1945 literature is a wonderful way to understand how the world works today.


.....
yep, there are lots of post-modern courses... sorry if i used the wrong word.. by final exams i meant the exams we have to take in order to graduate from univ... .. i didn't mean end-of-term exams... so, we can take courses about post-modern literature but for our graduation exams it's got to be traditional lit... the M.A. students can do whatever they like, but teachers have to stick to pre-1950 lit for the exams, not during the course of their studies though... actually, there are lots of post-modern courses coz the professors like it and are reluctant to offer courses that fit in with the graduation requirement because they are too lazy to teach Shakespeare or Jane Austen...
i don't know about the inofficial loopholes... maybe the pre-1950s rule exists only on paper and the actual examiners don't care

PS: i meant: AFTER 1950 of course in my earlier msgs.. we're not allowed to take exams on anyone AFTER 1950... whatever.. :)

[SleepyWitch]

muhsin you could also start on a small scale before you go for professional publication... e.g. have the book copied at a copyshop and have it spiral-bound, if it's not too expensive. then give your friends a copy and ask them for feedback... if it's OK in your culture you could ask them to pay for the copying... like if it's $2 to copy the book each friend gives you $2.

or you could check if there are any culturual workshops in your town.. were people can go an present their work.. or maybe there's a univ with some kind of writing workshop were they have readings?

do you want to make money or just share your work? if you don't need the money too badly, why not publish your book on the internet? I think there are tools that allow you to block downloading.. so your book couln't be 'stolen'