Coincidence? I think not.

[papayahed]

Is it possible that a coincidence is actually just a one in a million random chance or is it possible that there are great forces at work in the universe kind like guideposts if you will giving little nudges in the right direction?


I wonder.

[grace86]

I don't believe that anything is coincidence. My faith says that everything happens for a reason. But I think even without having an "established" faith telling you that, when something that seems coincidental happens, I think most of us always feel there is something more to it. Yes, I think it has to do with pushing us in the right direction.

[Idril]

I've never really believed in fate because then you don't have to take responsibility for anything, anything that happens, good or bad is because it was "destined to be" and not because of decisions you've made or the hard work you've done. We can change the entire course of our lives with one seemingly insignificant choice, there are consequences to everything we do and if we write it all off to fate then we don't learn from our mistakes and we can't take pride in our accomplishments. I think opportunities are always surrounding us, I think new paths are always opening up to us but it is our own decision to take them or not, not some omniprescient guiding force...but that's just my humble opinion and is probably just a crock of...nonsense. ;)

[papayahed]

I don't really mean fate per se, more like a "suggestion". Like a big sign saying "Hey, have you considered this.."

[Sarka]

At a point in my life where most people my age think they know everything (I'm 18), I've come to realize that when it comes down to it I know pretty well nothing about life, the world, whatever. I'm sort of of the Absurdist philosophy that we really have no way of knowing exactly what is going on with the universe--free will, God and all that--and so there is no point in trying to find out. Just sort of live, you know?? That's what I think we [I]ought[I/] to do, anyway; I think in a way we'd all be a lot happier if we stopped worrying about Heaven and/or Hell and what's going to happen to us and, like, live in the present... So I think whether or not Fate exists is sort of moot, because we can't really ever know for sure while we are alive (and who knows wtf happens when we die anyway) so just, like, go with the flow, man. Do what comes naturally. Like. Dude.

[papayahed]

ok, as an example lets say you have to make a decision between schools. The schools are equal in all aspects. You start seeing more advertisment/references to one of the schools where you haven't previously. Is this a "suggestion" or just coincidence?

[Idril]

ok, as an example lets say you have to make a decision between schools. The schools are equal in all aspects. You start seeing more advertisment/references to one of the schools where you haven't previously. Is this a "suggestion" or just coincidence?

I would write that off to a coincidence because I have nothing of the mystical about me. ;) It could just be a sub-conscious thing too, because you're leaning towards that school, you're more likely to notice mentions of it. And you know what, whatever helps you make those tough decisions is helpful, there are worse reasons to pick a school and I know this is just an example but I think the advice works for many situations.

[SmokeBellew]

I also believe that everything happens for a certain reason. There's someone above pulling the strings and making everything happen. It is HE who makes the decisions so I'll rather deny existence of a coincidence. Although, who knows...

everything's goin' according to the plan :)

[mono]

I feel as though that I have reviewed through this in my head so many times, that I hardly know what to think of it anymore. Perphaps, I finally ought to admit myself further into the transcendental thought - that several things exist (or may exist) far beyond the scope of human knowledge, cognition, and imagination. No one can quite prove or disprove fate and its connected concepts and theories; and this argument could further itself to concepts regarding free will and predestination (but let us save that for the 'Religious Texts' part of the forum).
Life, in its constant and inevitable flux, even if either fate or free will did exist, could not possibly conceive of something so stable, constant, unchanging, or omniscent. One friend I have spoken to on this subject, obviously a believer in free will, theorizes that the belief in fate more functions as a cushion; hence when something bad occurs, one can shrug and claim it 'was meant to happen,' or 'that just seems the way it is.' My faith sways me more to the belief in inevitable fate (though I dislike that word 'fate,' and its connected terms), but I find my friend's thought a worthy thought.

[imthefoolonthehill]

Mathematically, I don't believe in the random - only Psuedorandom.


Hence, I don't believe in what people concider coincidences. Everything happens for a reason. Whether that reason is because some Godhead moved it or simply the arrangements of atomic particles in the ground, or whatever, that: I don't know.

[cuppajoe_9]

What kind of coincidence? Many thing are not as unlikely as they seem.

[Manfred]

Many of you sound oddly like my girlfriend, which I don't necessarily find to be a good thing. She has a habit of interpreting every little slip of the tongue to be some kind of "Freudian slip," whereby what I actually said was what I truely meant, rather than just an error.
For instance: Our dog, Sophie, poops on the welcome mat early in the morning, but I don't find it until I'm out the door for work, late.
I call out, "The dog crapped on the carpet!", and leave.
Translation: Since I said carpet instead of mat, I must be mad at the dog. Since I said dog instead of Sophie, I must hate the dog. Since Sophie is more her dog than mine, I must be mad at her. Maybe I want to break up with her.
Result: She makes my life miserable for the next 5 days.
It was fate that made me say it.

[Shannanigan]

Hmmm...I dunno....I had a "coincidence" today:

The other day (Friday, perhaps Thursday?) I was on these forums, and someone had mentioned Edgar Allen Poe...reminding me of how much I liked his work back in high school. I went to the message boards about him and found a thread about members' favorite EAP short stories...and found that many liked "The Masque of the Red Death"...and I realized that I had never read that story. I found it and read it, and liked it, and the other night I even talked with my sister about it, finding out that she had read it before. I made a decision (which I mentioned in the "summer reading list" thread in General Literature) to read/re-read some of EAP's work this summer.

Today I picked up "The Shining" by Stephen King. After the acknowledgements and right before the story is a half-page long excerpt from "The Masque of the Red Death."

Now, that excerpt has been there since 1977 when this book is copywrited, and I never would have noticed it, probably, if it hadn't been for all the EAP relapse I've had in the past few days...but wouldn't this coincidence, if it is more than that, be kind of redundant if trying to push me towards EAP? I mean, I had already decided to read more of him this summer...

awww, Manfred, I'm sorry....how about you have her read some of the modern literature revealing how Freud was "a complete quack"...as my psychology professor put it...

[Stanislaw]

heh, has anybody seen the movie constantine? :D

Coincidence or fate; personally I have seen enough to perhaps think that nothing is really a coincidence, more like a trail of crumbs set out for us rats in the experiment of life to see what we will do.

[papayahed]

heh, has anybody seen the movie constantine? :D

Coincidence or fate; personally I have seen enough to perhaps think that nothing is really a coincidence, more like a trail of crumbs set out for us rats in the experiment of life to see what we will do.

That's what I'm talking about.

Let's just say that someone you just happen to meet says something to you that gets you to thinking about drastically changing your career. Was that meeting just a chance meeting? Or was it the universe saying "hey, have you considered this idea?" Now, I'm not talking about fate here, I'm talking about what leads up to the decision.

[imthefoolonthehill]

I think we should take a look at the word coincidence. Now, I'm not word-doctor... but I would bet that it's meaning has something to do with simply coinciding, rather than causing or bla bla bla bla bla the end.

In this very literal way, I believe in coincidences. To not would dictate magical thinking.

for example. I am wearing blue pants and it rains. One does not cause the other. They simply happened at the same time, or coincided.... Hence, coincidences exist in this manner.

[Manfred]

That's what I'm talking about.

Let's just say that someone you just happen to meet says something to you that gets you to thinking about drastically changing your career. Was that meeting just a chance meeting? Or was it the universe saying "hey, have you considered this idea?" Now, I'm not talking about fate here, I'm talking about what leads up to the decision.

I just can't agree with this line of reasoning. The assumption that must be accepted for this to be true is that there is some sort of superior God-figure that watches over all of us, and determines, if not our course of action, at least which "fork" in life we will be permitted to choose.
A secondary alternative, and one that my mother espouses, is that we are all tied in to some universal rhythm, and that circumstances are more inclined to be favorable to decision-making at certain times than they are at others because of universal forces at work.
I am disinclined to accept either of these theories, and at the risk of alienating many of you here in this forum will admit to being an athiest.

[kathycf]

I am disinclined to accept either of these theories, and at the risk of alienating many of you here in this forum will admit to being an athiest.

I think there are many members who are atheists. I am not, although I don't follow a specific Faith. You certainly haven't alienated me...

As far as coincidences go, I don't know if there is some deeper meaning behind them or not, I am still undecided on that. Some odd little things I have experienced:
My ex-husband's family has many of the same birthdays as members of my family. Both our father's were born on October 14th, my sister and his sister were born on January 13th, his mother and my younger sister were both May 4th and his other sister and me were born a week apart.

My addresses over the last 15 years :
22 Mount Vernon St
22 Adamson St
22 Essex St.

When I lived in Boston, MA several years ago, one of the first things I did was go register at the local branch of the library, where I was told I couldn't take any books out because I owed a fine. Naturally I was surprised at this news, being new in town. Turns out there was another woman who lived on the opposite end of my street with the same exact name as me. (well, different middle initial)

[Manfred]

I think there are many members who are atheists. I am not, although I don't follow a specific Faith. You certainly haven't alienated me...

As far as coincidences go, I don't know if there is some deeper meaning behind them or not, I am still undecided on that. Some odd little things I have experienced:
My ex-husband's family has many of the same birthdays as members of my family. Both our father's were born on October 14th, my sister and his sister were born on January 13th, his mother and my younger sister were both May 4th and his other sister and me were born a week apart.

My addresses over the last 15 years :
22 Mount Vernon St
22 Adamson St
22 Essex St.

When I lived in Boston, MA several years ago, one of the first things I did was go register at the local branch of the library, where I was told I couldn't take any books out because I owed a fine. Naturally I was surprised at this news, being new in town. Turns out there was another woman who lived on the opposite end of my street with the same exact name as me. (well, different middle initial)

Thank you, Kathy, for the vote of confidence.
Personally, I would have put the things you mentioned down to coincidence, with a rational--if somewhat far-fetched--explaination behind them. There, after all, only 365 days in a year, but billions of people on the planet. Some of them must have the same birthdays.
My girlfriend, however, would have been totally creeped out by these things, and insisted that it was a sign from God or some such thing. While not everything can be readily explained, I am not persuaded that this means they must have supernatural meaning.

[Shannanigan]

I think I have no choice but to accept that whoever I wind up dying with on my path of life is going to be named "Chris"...my last three boyfriends have all been named Chris, and all had a last name that started with "S." lol...every time I meet another Chris now I have to shake my head and try to keep my cool, because this coincidence definitely has me putting more inspection into and giving more of a chance to anyone with that name. Just strange coincidence, or some otherworldy input to get me to give some poor shmuck named Chris a chance down the line? Honestly, I don't really know. I tend to lean toward the "just coincidence" side of things...but it has affected me, after all. I know for a fact that if I'm introduced to Paul, Steve, and Chris that I will be instantly intrigued by Chris just because of his name (though if Paul or Steve are much cuter and turn out to be more my type that can change, lol :P)

April is a horrible month for me, I have to buy a birthday present every other day for each man in my life: Dad, brother, boyfriend, best friend, Godfather...etc. etc....

[Idril]

I just can't agree with this line of reasoning. The assumption that must be accepted for this to be true is that there is some sort of superior God-figure that watches over all of us, and determines, if not our course of action, at least which "fork" in life we will be permitted to choose...
I am disinclined to accept either of these theories, and at the risk of alienating many of you here in this forum will admit to being an athiest.

You don't have to be an athiest to reject that first line of reasoning, I'm a christian but I've never thought of God as a puppet-master. Even though I do belive in God, I'm something of a deist in the way that I think he pretty much leaves us alone to live our lives and reap the benefits or the consequences of our actions. I always assume there's a perfectly logical reasons for any weird coincidence or seemingly 'magical' experience, even if I can't quite figure out what that reason is. :D

[Manfred]

You don't have to be an athiest to reject that first line of reasoning, I'm a christian but I've never thought of God as a puppet-master. Even though I do belive in God, I'm something of a deist in the way that I think he pretty much leaves us alone to live our lives and reap the benefits or the consequences of our actions. I always assume there's a perfectly logical reasons for any weird coincidence or seemingly 'magical' experience, even if I can't quite figure out what that reason is. :D

On the whole, I have found that most Christians of my acquaintance--which, by the way, comprise the vast majority of people I know--think as you do. In this age of global warming, perpetual war, etc., however, there seems to be a sharp increase in apocalyptical types around; those who believe that the end is imminant, and that nothing we do will change the coming event.
I work for the Bureau of Motor Vehicles for the State of Indiana, and they have even ceased making license plates that have the numerals 666 grouped together on one plate because so many people refuse to take them.

[Idril]

In this age of global warming, perpetual war, etc., however, there seems to be a sharp increase in apocalyptical types around; those who believe that the end is imminant, and that nothing we do will change the coming event.


You don't think that's the point I was trying to make, do you? Are you just making a general statement about how some Christians are viewing current events? Because that wasn't what I was saying, I am not an 'apocalyptical type', in fact I don't even remotely bother myself with things of that nature. There have always been and will always be things that, for some people, signal that 'the end is coming', for hundreds even thousands of years this has been the case. The end will come when it comes and there's nothing we can do about it, that much is true but I don't believe it's imminent, I think we still have thousands, perhaps millions of years yet ;) .

[Manfred]

You don't think that's the point I was trying to make, do you? Are you just making a general statement about how some Christians are viewing current events? Because that wasn't what I was saying, I am not an 'apocalyptical type', in fact I don't even remotely bother myself with things of that nature. There have always been and will always be things that, for some people, signal that 'the end is coming', for hundreds even thousands of years this has been the case. The end will come when it comes and there's nothing we can do about it, that much is true but I don't believe it's imminent, I think we still have thousands, perhaps millions of years yet ;) .

No,no; I never meant to imply that YOU entertained this outlook. Only to observe that many people today seem desperate for answers.
I think that fear of the future may cause SOME people to believe that we are controlled by fate, that we have no real decision over what will happen to us. As the forces of international policy seem to be beyond our comprehension, so too, maybe, are there forces that are beyond this world's gamesters.

[Idril]

No,no; I never meant to imply that YOU entertained this outlook. Only to observe that many people today seem desperate for answers.
I think that fear of the future may cause SOME people to believe that we are controlled by fate, that we have no real decision over what will happen to us. As the forces of international policy seem to be beyond our comprehension, so too, maybe, are there forces that are beyond this world's gamesters.

Ok good, that's makes me feel better. ;) And I agree with your above statement. It's a confusing time right now, there are so many changes, societal (that word doesn't look like it's spelled right, but I checked it and I promise, it's right) and political and some people just don't deal with change and unrest very well. :p

[Manfred]

Ok good, that's makes me feel better. ;) And I agree with your above statement. It's a confusing time right now, there are so many changes, societal (that word doesn't look like it's spelled right, but I checked it and I promise, it's right) and political and some people just don't deal with change and unrest very well. :p

Indeed, I'm one of those who doesn't deal with change and unrest very well, myself. But I'm not going to roll over and surrender free will if I can help it, either.