German language

[MikeK]

I've been looking for a quote that I heard long ago and can't locate. Somebody said something to the effect of "German is a language fit only for speaking to horses." Can anybody help? I believe it was a Frenchman (may have been DeGaulle, now that I think of it), but I'm not sure.

Any help is appreciated.

[behindblueeyes]

German is a language which was developed solely to afford the speaker the opportunity to spit at strangers under the guise of polite conversation.

"Europe is an affair of the French and the Germans." And also, "France will be the coachman and Germany the horse."

You can always reason with a German. You can always reason with a barnyard animal, too, for all the good it does.

German in the most extravagantly ugly language - it sounds like someone using a sick bag on a 747.

Sorry I couldn't find anything quite like that but if i do i'll post it

[MikeK]

Funny quotes. Thanks for replying.

[Quoth-the-Raven]

"To God I speak Spanish, to women Italian, to men French, and to my horse--German."
-- Jason Chamberlain

http://www.worldofquotes.com/author/Jason-Chamberlain/1/index.html

Regards,

Raven.

[MikeK]

Ahh, very good. Thanks.

Those poor Germans. Everybody seems so dismissive of their language.

[Asa Adams]

i enjoyed learning that language. Perhaps i should speak German to you fine folks.

[mir]

no! our electronic ears!

[Asa Adams]

hahaha :lol:

[MikeK]

Thanks for pointing me in the right diection Raven. I did some more searching, and that quote that you quoted has been attributed most often to Charles V. Chamberlain may have been quoting him. I also came across a variation of that quote. I don't know how true it is, but Frederick the Great is supposed to have said:

"I speak French to my ambassadors, English to my accountant, Italian to my mistress, Latin to my God, and German to my horse."

That may be apocryphal, or he too may have had Charles V in mind. Another similar one of Frederick the Great's that I came across:

"A German singer! I should as soon expect to get pleasure from the neighing of my horse."

Thanks for the help.

[Schokokeks]

Those poor Germans. Everybody seems so dismissive of their language.

Thank you for keeping up the defense, MikeK!! :D
Although it is my mother tongue, I do admit that it is not the easiest language on this planet - but hey, ever tried Thai? ;)

One more contribution to your topic by Oscar Wilde, a line from a letter to his friend (note that Wilde wrote the letter while in prison! :lol:):
"I am going to take up the study of German: indeed this seems to be the proper place for such a study".

[mir]

ha ha! hey, thai's cool! it's all squiggly. and fun to talk. even though i only know two words. but i can say them a bunch of times! : D

what's this weird connection between germans and horses? why not rabbits? or orangutangs?

[Schokokeks]

hehe, I guess the association with horses and not rabbits is that rabbits don't make many speech-like noises (at least not in my presence :D).
Furthermore, there are a some hallmarks of German phonetic (like the "ch" and the "sch") that could, if you speak in barbaric terms and really really exert your imagination :D, be likened to the snuffling of a horse.
The associations with orangutans can't possibly refer to Germans only, I think that's a global phenomenon :lol:.

[dalton]

I forget who it was that said "English is for geese", but in keeping with your mention of gutturals, is it just me or is there anyone else here who would love French unconditionally were it not for its wince-evoking guttural -r?

[Schokokeks]

Nope, I do like French unconditionally :D. As to "r"s, I don't like the Spanish one, it sounds so hard and certainly discriminates people who (for genetical reason, if I remember correctly...) just can't roll the "r".
However, I think languages and their differences are one of the most amazing things to be studied and experienced. I imagine it so wonderful to be able to speak many languages and thus being capable of communicating all around the world. Still long way to go for me, though :D.

[dalton]

Any kind of guttural in any language usually turns me off, but that doesn't mean I reject that language totally. I am not in the minority when I say that my favorite-sounding tongue is Italian, which is guttural-free and where almost all words end in a vowel. Japanese when it avoids its own gutturals is on a par with Italian for euphony, otherwise the effect is harsh. Dialects of language families vary in euphony as well, for example, I consider Cuban Spanish less objectionable than Euro-Spanish and much more so than Mexican Spanish, which, curiously enough, matches Japanese for its upleasantness when a shouting-match or a verbal show of bravado occurs. As for Germanic, my choice for most euphonic is the lilting sing-song of Swedish, and my least favorite is the heavy word-chewing, throat-clearing, of Standard German. As to the Slavonic family, I am hard-pressed to pick a favorite, so I shall pick a worst: Czech. Brazilian Portuguese is more sonorous and more-relaxed in prononciation than its European cousin, the latter giving the novice an impression that he is hearing Russian spoken. Aside from the often acceptable-sounding Japanese, the other Asian languages are a jumble of sibilants and consonant-clusters inextricably intermeshed with harsh gutturals. I haven't mentioned English, except for someone else's quote in my previous post because it is impossible to judge your own native language relative to others. Before I go, let me mention that the uvular -r of Standard French is not standard everywhere in the Francophonic world, for example, the tongue-trip -r is still, though less frequently, heard in French Canada, and is the only one known in French Louisiana, not to mention many parts of French Africa, as well. The uvular -r was limited to Paris and its immediate environs during the 17th century, but beginning with the edicts of the French Academy and reinforced by the coming of Napoleon and nationalism, this blasted ugly -r was imposed throughout the schools of France. The old -r can still be heard in parts of Southern France within families but is frowned upon on school grounds.

[Idril]

Furthermore, there are a some hallmarks of German phonetic (like the "ch" and the "sch") that could, if you speak in barbaric terms and really really exert your imagination :D, be likened to the snuffling of a horse.


When I took German in high school, our teacher allowed two different pronounciations of the 'ch' sound, the gutteral one that most people are familar with but she also allowed it to be prounounced as a 'sh', so instead of Ich, it would sound like 'Ish'...is that really allowed or was she just lazy?

[dalton]

Well, 'ich' is pronounced forward in the mouth while 'ach' is heard from the throat. they are distinct.

[Idril]

It's not the vowel sound I'm wondering about, it's the ending sound, the sound that sounds like you're clearing your throat.;) Is it considered correct to use the 'sh' sound, so instead of 'nacht' it would be nasht?

[dalton]

No, the two sounds are distinct and the differences wil be easily noticed by anyone familiar with Standard High German. It is as if you'd use this soft 'ch' in Scottish 'loch' and it would turn out sounding something like 'lahsh', although it's not really pronounced like an 'sh', it just sounds like that to English ears.

[Schokokeks]

When I took German in high school, our teacher allowed two different pronounciations of the 'ch' sound, the gutteral one that most people are familar with but she also allowed it to be prounounced as a 'sh', so instead of Ich, it would sound like 'Ish'...is that really allowed or was she just lazy?

Aaaaah! :eek: Although nobody in Germany would have had any trouble to understand you, the "sh" version is not the right one according to the rules of Standard High German pronouciation.
Admittedly, however, there are some areas in Germany where people do pronounce some of the "ch"s that way. (Yet these people are not seldomly made fun of exactly because of their strange way of speaking :p)
The only reasonable explanation to me for your teacher offering you alternative pronounciations is that maybe the "sh" is easier for English tongues than the gutteral "ch" ? Then maybe she just calculated that the chances that someone of you will actually ever get to speak to a native German were considerably small, so she might as well allow her students the easier version :D.

[behindblueeyes]

german sounds hard.. i hate spanish because of those rr's though.. i mean it's a specific letter so it's important but I can't say it!

[Idril]

Then maybe she just calculated that the chances that someone of you will actually ever get to speak to a native German were considerably small, so she might as well allow her students the easier version :D.

That's probably it. She really didn't prepare us very well for conversations with 'real' Germans. :rolleyes: We weren't required to speak conversational German in class, we wrote dialogues, we memorized other dialogues, we had to do so some interpreting but we never just had to improvise normal speech. I took 2 years of German and there's no way I couldn't kept up my end of a conversation, I could understand what someone else was saying, I could read it and given time, I could write it but I was never able to speak it off the top of my head, I could never conjugate verbs fast enough or determine gender or work out the sentence structure quick enough for a normal conversation. And then when I went to college, I was completely lost because once that class started, there was no English allowed which is a good thing but I was not prepared for that kind of thing.

[Jay]

As to the Slavonic family, I am hard-pressed to pick a favorite, so I shall pick a worst: Czech.
The old 'strč prst skrz krk' thing? :goof: And it doesn't end with a simple R, we also got a Ř: Třísta třicet tři stříbrných stříkaček stříkalo přes třista třicet tři stříbrných střech.

Tongue twisters are fun :p (although mostly impossible to articulate :lol: )

[Schokokeks]

I took 2 years of German and there's no way I couldn't kept up my end of a conversation, I could understand what someone else was saying, I could read it and given time, I could write it but I was never able to speak it off the top of my head, I could never conjugate verbs fast enough or determine gender or work out the sentence structure quick enough for a normal conversation. And then when I went to college, I was completely lost because once that class started, there was no English allowed which is a good thing but I was not prepared for that kind of thing.

That's very sad and vain endeavour from the part of your teacher, it seems, never letting you use the language by doing what language was orginally meant for!
How did you manage to follow college classes after that desasterous preparation? Did you have the impression that you were improving with time under the more demanding conditions or did you end up throwing in your German towel :p? My admiration that you actually did choose to continue German at college level! It must have been love :D ;)


Třísta třicet tři stříbrných stříkaček stříkalo přes třista třicet tři stříbrných střech
:eek: Now anyone tell me German looks difficult! :D

[Taliesin]

Oh, well, Estonian has only got absolutely different pronounciation, palatalisation and strange vowels when speaking about difficult pronounciation (mind you, the grammar is very, very difficult to foreigners)

Õunapuude õitseaeg on Jüriöö ülestõusust jõululaupäevani.
Jüriöö ööbikud üürgasid ajujää väljadel..
Jäääär

[ShoutGrace]

Vybafnout!


The old 'strč prst skrz krk' thing?

Hey, that wasn't as hard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C4%8D_prst_skrz_krk) as I expected. :D I'm pretty sure I can say it correctly.

Though, I would hate to Vžít se (Jay's, namely).

I don't want to be considered a Nedovtipa, so I think I'll just Zapřít se. I've probably already Zakecat se.


Õunapuude õitseaeg on Jüriöö ülestõusust jõululaupäevani. Jüriöö ööbikud üürgasid ajujää väljadel. Jäääär.


Now anyone tell me German looks difficult!

I'm very much relieved! German seems much more attainable by comparision :D .

[cuppajoe_9]

Curse you, all you multilingual Lit-Netters. I took nine years of French and I still can't have a decent conversation in it to save my life (this is mostly due to the fact that the rest of my class were a bunch of slackers).

Icelandic is very high on the list of languages I would like to be fluent in. Björk will do that to a person.

[Jay]

Vybafnout!Am I supposed to get stratled and fall on my butt now? Asking because it didn't work if that was your intention :p

Hey, that wasn't as hard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C4%8D_prst_skrz_krk) as I expected. :D I'm pretty sure I can say it correctly.It's not that difficult, it just scares the living daylights out of some people in whose mother language a word just HAS to have at least one vowel to be pronounce-able. Try looking for the other one, I'm sure you wouldn't be able to say that ;)

Though, I would hate to Vžít se (Jay's, namely).It's not that bad (for a native speaker that is ;))

I don't want to be considered a Nedovtipa, so I think I'll just Zapřít se. I've probably already Zakecat se.No offense ShoutGrace, but you talk funny :D (and you don't need to capitalize everything, we have less capitalization than German and English - can't compare to other languages - though I think our capitalization rules is one of the major pains for foreigner learners of Czech, it can very often be for a native speaker as well :p)

I'm very much relieved! German seems much more attainable by comparision :D .So it would, being a Germanic language :D

[cuppajoe_9]

Õunapuude õitseaeg on Jüriöö ülestõusust jõululaupäevani.
Jüriöö ööbikud üürgasid ajujää väljadel..
JäääärAre you serious? Maybe you guys could trade some of your vowels to the Czechs. They seem to have a surplus of consonants.

[Jay]

Not really, it's just not such a problem having some vowel-less words ;)

[ShoutGrace]

Am I supposed to get stratled and fall on my butt now? Asking because it didn't work if that was your intention :p

Sounds like an embarrassed denial to me. :D (I did wish to startle, though. :cool: )


Try looking for the other one, I'm sure you wouldn't be able to say that ;)

What, I haven't given enough proof of my Czech mastery yet? Um, yeah, I'll get back to you about that one later . . . much later. :p


No offense ShoutGrace, but you talk funny :D

Oh Man!!

-I was just a fledgling linquist
free with no regard
I am one that fate hath not kissed
Jay has dropped me hard


So it would, being a Germanic language :D

I was reading about it's origins recently; it's very interesting (as all languages must be). The German syntax book I was reading from claimed that a 10th century Englishman wouldn't have any trouble understanding modern High German (that is how similar the languages were at that time?)

The French messed around with it later . . . and some other stuff. So now German and English are distinct (as far as I can tell).

[certiorari]

Ich denke nicht, da Deutscher hlich ist.
^I probably have that wrong, heh.

I take German. But I bet I wouldn't like it if I didn't have the teacher I have.

While it does sometimes sound kind of strange, it's pretty close to english.

Their culture is so much different then American's, especially if you go into a restaurant. :) We've been learning about that, and they do seem kind of rude in that aspect, most everything else I've learned is polite.

[Yelena]

I've been studying German for almost 8 years now, and I still find it difficult, especially the word endingings and cases. Those who learn it will probably understand. German is a hard language to learn.

[SleepyWitch]

Yelena, ti gavarish po russky? (no idea how to spell it in Latin letters?)
I'm taking Russian courses (well actually I'm taking a break from them these days). My mother tongue is German. I.e. both of them have case endings and sometimes the same cases are even used to express the same things in both languages. But in general, the fact that German has cases, too, doesn't help me one bit with the Russian :)

[Yelena]

:p Yeap, Russian is my first language and I dearly love it. :) But as I've said before, I do have problems with German gender and case's endings. I'm taking a German course now too, just as you take a Russian course. If you need help with Russian, let me know.

[SleepyWitch]

hehe, let me know if you need help with your German.
i think my first step should be to take up the course again :) when I've done that, i might get back to you (screaming "HELP!") :)

[Yelena]

Good luck!

[mazz]

just read through this thread trashing the german language.. any language can be difficult if you don't use it to communicate with someone. i met and married a german so decided to learn, as i only studied part time I know my limitations are my fault. I can talk conversationally but to talk intelligently will require a bit more effort on my part. The grammar can be tricky but if you make sure you really understand the terms in english to begin with it makes more sense. Has anyone heard of Rilke, his poetry is beautiful and the rhyming in german works superbly.

[manolia]

I think german is a very nice language. In fact i like german very much (or at least i am used to it, having seen so many Fassbinder and Wim Wenders's films). Also, i don't think it's so difficult to learn (neither the grammar, nor the vocabulary). For me german was easier to learn than french (since everything is written as it is pronounced and the german grammar is based on ancient greek grammar). French gave me a hard time to learn to speak (and pronounce) tolerably.

[cuppajoe_9]

*sings*

Freude, schöner Götterfunken
Töchter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische, dein Heiligtum!

Yeah, it doesn't deserve its reputation.

[Uncle Lar]

"Ich liebe Deutsches, aber mein Deutsch ist schlecht."
"I love German, but my German is bad."

To help me hone my
German, I like to study
great German writings.

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe's Poetry:
http://www.goethe.lingvisto.org/azindex.php

Old High German: Hildebrandslied, ll. 1-26:
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/iedocctr/ie-texts/text-ohg.html

I highly recommend watching the Academy Award Winning German Film, Das Leben der Anderen (The Lives of Others):
http://www.hollywood.com/movie/The__Lives_of_Others/3487623


Haben Sie ein großes Wochenende!
Have a great Weekend!

Sincerely,

Onkel Lar

[Schokokeks]

For me german was easier to learn than french (since everything is written as it is pronounced and the german grammar is based on ancient greek grammar).
Yes, I noticed that, too: I'm doing the reverse, being German and learning Ancient Greek ;).


*sings*

Freude, schöner Götterfunken
Töchter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische, dein Heiligtum!

*spends applause*


Yeah, it doesn't deserve its reputation.
Yes, because you didn't quote the most interesting part ;).

[manolia]

Yes, I noticed that, too: I'm doing the reverse, being German and learning Ancient Greek ;).

How interesting! Do you like it? Is it difficult for you? Back in highschool AG was one of my favourite lessons but it was a bit difficult sometimes with all those irregular verbs...:)

[Schokokeks]

How interesting! Do you like it? Is it difficult for you? Back in highschool AG was one of my favourite lessons but it was a bit difficult sometimes with all those irregular verbs...:)
Yes, I like it very much :nod:.
At the beginning, it was difficult for me to get used to the characters and, even more so, to the accents and spiritus. I feel it is helping me a lot that I've learned Latin before because of the striking similarity in some grammatical constructions and occasionally shared vocabulary.
At the moment, I struggle the most with the prepositions (one preposition, three casus, twelve different meanings ;)) and, as you said, the irregular verbs. Not that there are so many, but often I find two irregular forms of the same verb don't look similar to each other at all :D.
But nevertheless, I love studying Ancient Greek. Especially the vocabulary is helping me a lot, letting me discover the interesting roots of many modern German words :nod:.

You must be very fortunate, with all the actual Ancient World heritage around you, although partly in ruins :). I would love to see Athens, but so far I've only been to Crete once, which was great.
Have you ever been to Germany ?

[manolia]

Yes, I like it very much :nod:.
At the beginning, it was difficult for me to get used to the characters and, even more so, to the accents and spiritus. I feel it is helping me a lot that I've learned Latin before because of the striking similarity in some grammatical constructions and occasionally shared vocabulary.
At the moment, I struggle the most with the prepositions (one preposition, three casus, twelve different meanings ;)) and, as you said, the irregular verbs. Not that there are so many, but often I find two irregular forms of the same verb don't look similar to each other at all :D.
But nevertheless, I love studying Ancient Greek. Especially the vocabulary is helping me a lot, letting me discover the interesting roots of many modern German words :nod:

Oh i know what you mean. I had a difficult time with prepositions in german too (which verb goes with what). If you manage AG easily, you can learn modern greek in no time.



You must be very fortunate, with all the actual Ancient World heritage around you, although partly in ruins :). I would love to see Athens, but so far I've only been to Crete once, which was great.
Have you ever been to Germany ?

Yes it is interesting to be able to visit these ancient ruins. I've been in most of them many times. I have a strong liking in ancient ruins and when i was a teenager i wanted to be an arcaiologist (but i ended up as an engineer :D ).
You've been to Crete??? I am from Crete!!!! Crete is my beloved island. My family comes from Chania but we don't live there :( . I visit Crete almost every summer (or when i can have a more than 3 days break:D ). Which places have you visited there?
I have never been to Germany. But i am planing a trip there soon. My boyfriend is half German (from Hamburg) and i want to see his place of birth, meet members of his family (the german side) etc.
I also want to visit Berlin (my friends went there last year and are still raving about it) and Munich and Heidelberg.:)

[Schokokeks]

If you manage AG easily, you can learn modern greek in no time.
That's encouraging, thanks :).


You've been to Crete??? I am from Crete!!!! Crete is my beloved island. My family comes from Chania but we don't live there :( . I visit Crete almost every summer (or when i can have a more than 3 days break:D ). Which places have you visited there?
Oh, wow, you're lucky to be from there :nod:. I've only been to Iraklion and Knossos, but I'm planning to return one day to see the rest ;).


I have never been to Germany. But i am planing a trip there soon. My boyfriend is half German (from Hamburg) and i want to see his place of birth, meet members of his family (the german side) etc.
I also want to visit Berlin (my friends went there last year and are still raving about it) and Munich and Heidelberg.:)
And I happen to live in Heidelberg !!! :D Once you know when you'll be coming, let me know, I'd give a tour for free ;)

[manolia]

And I happen to live in Heidelberg !!! :D Once you know when you'll be coming, let me know, I'd give a tour for free ;)

You are lucky (living in Heidelberg). I've seen pictures and documentary films and i believe that your city is one of the most beautiful in Europe:nod:
Thanx for the offer :). The same for you if you ever visit Crete again.

[Schokokeks]

You are lucky (living in Heidelberg). I've seen pictures and documentary films and i believe that your city is one of the most beautiful in Europe:nod:
I agree it is quite a nice place. I only moved here half a year ago, to go to university here, and indeed I like the city very much :nod:.

Thanx for the offer :). The same for you if you ever visit Crete again.
You're very welcome, and thank you, too. :)

[karena]

[QUOTE=MikeK;224938]I've been looking for a quote that I heard long ago and can't locate. Somebody said something to the effect of "German is a language fit only for speaking to horses." Can anybody help? I believe it was a Frenchman (may have been DeGaulle, now that I think of it), but I'm not sure.

It was Friedrich I , although a german regent he hated the german language, and spoke and wrote only French.