grace nichols

[morpheus_q8]

could any one help me in analyze or talk about this question, how women are portred in these poems ( topical death, waterport and skin-teeth) by nichols. what is thier problems and how does grace draw the characters in each one

[mono]

Hello, morpheus_q8, welcome to the forum.
Unfortunately, I could not find any poem by Grace Nichols entitled "Waterport" or "Skin-Teeth," but I did find "Tropical Death." If you would like help on the remaining two, please post the poems, and I can surely help. :)

Tropical Death

The fat black woman want
a brilliant tropical death
not a cold sojourn
in some North Europe far/forlorn

The fat black woman want
some heat/hibiscus at her feet
blue sea dress
to wrap her neat

The fat black woman want
some bawl
no quiet jerk tear wiping
a polite hearse withdrawal

The fat black woman want
all her dead rights
first night
third night
nine night
all the sleepless droning
red-eyed wake nights

In the heart
of her mother's sweetbreast
In the shade
of the sun leaf's cool bless
In the bloom
of her people's bloodrest

the fat black woman want
a brilliant tropical death yes
In this poem, the first descriptive adjectives/words that comes to my mind: pride, determination, self-reliance, independence, and strength. The "fat black woman" seems portrayed as always "wanting," hence you see the repitition of "the fat black woman want . . ." In other words, the woman knows and has identified what she wants to the utmost precision and very specified actions (such as the place of death, certain clothing, funeral service, etc.).
That she suggests so much of her own death, a reader could possibly presume that she has reached the end of her life according to her perception; in psychology, Erik Erikson (a developmental psychological thinker) may deem her in a stage of "integrity vs. despair" - a reader may find her in either category of integrity or despair, either hoping for her death due to misery (despair), or feeling ready for her death, and hence planning for it (integrity).
The poem also hints at several beautiful parts of death, using such words as "blue sea dress / to wrap her neat," "polite hearse," "in the heart . . .," "in the shade . . .," "in the bloom . . ." This may tell me that "the fat black woman" awaits death with dignity, having lived life fully, planned her life, and subsequently plans her own death, whenever it may come.
I hope this has helped, and wish you luck. If you want help with the other two poems, please post them.

[morpheus_q8]

thanx dear for your help, i will write the two poems here for you to help me

skin-teeth
Not every skin-teeth
is a smile "Massa"

if you see me smiling
when you pass

if you see me bending
when you ask

know that i smile
know that i bend

only the better
to rise and strike again

[morpheus_q8]

waterpot
the daily going out
and coming in
alwayes being hurried
along
like like..cattle
in the evenings
returning from the fields
she tried very hard
pulling her self erect
whith every7 three or four
steps
pulling her self together
holding her self like
royal cane
and the overseer
hurrying them along
in the quickening darkness
and the overseer sneering
them along in the quickening
darkness
sneered at the pathetic
the pathetic display
of dignity
o but look
there's a waterpot growing
from her head

[mono]

Hello again, morpheus, and thanks for posting the poems. I will see what I can do . . .

skin-teeth

Not every skin-teeth
is a smile "Massa"

if you see me smiling
when you pass

if you see me bending
when you ask

know that i smile
know that i bend

only the better
to rise and strike again
This poem reads slightly more simply, but only assuming that the female poet, Grace Nichols, may write slightly more autobiographically. As with "Tropical Death," I feel that this poem carries a theme of power, determination, and free expression. Nichols may suggest of suppression in the poem of females, and that the "showing of teeth" may look similar to either a smile (out of happiness) or a scathing look (more out of anger or frustration). The "smiling" shows expression, while the "bending" represents labor and hard work; the poet desires the "Massa" to notice both, but remember the power, determination, and self-reliance within the person.
Certain elements of this poem also remind me of slavery in historic America, particularly with the word "Massa," though, of course, I could interpret this wrongly. I know Grace Nichols comes from an African descent, and this poem may seem her reflections of past African-descendents in slavery, seeming rather reminiscent of some poetry by Maya Angelou.

-----

waterpot

the daily going out
and coming in
always being hurried
along
like like..cattle
in the evenings
returning from the fields
she tried very hard
pulling her self erect
with every three or four
steps
pulling her self together
holding her self like
royal cane
and the overseer
hurrying them along
in the quickening darkness
and the overseer sneering
them along in the quickening
darkness
sneered at the pathetic
the pathetic display
of dignity
o but look
there's a waterpot growing
from her head
This poem sends a few messages to me, also carrying a theme of diligence, hard working, exhaustion, and, like the others, determination; again, too, and I could interpret this wrongly, I cannot help but suspect an allusion to past slavery, such as the slaves seeming like the referred "cattle," watched over by some "sneering overseer." I doubt if the poem primarily refers to women, as opposed to "Tropical Death," but, similar to "Tropical Death," an element of pride comes in my mind, as she holds herself like a "royal cane." Noticing this, the poet has a great optimism that, though the moral behind slavery seems wrong, she makes the best of her situation, in a way; this seems also suggested when the overseer remarks the "pathetic display / of dignity."
The "waterpot growing / from her head" seems slightly confusing, and I could emphasize a few different questionable points. The "waterpot" may suggest a sense of balance and equilibrium; though the poet seems in this miserable state, she maintains her peace of mind, good will, and determination, hence representing an odd stability. The "waterpot" may also suggest something more like a kettle, as if a great amount of anger has built over time, and the anger nearly drivers her to boiling the "waterpot," if that makes sense, though I perceive no elements of anger from the writer/narrator, yet only from the overseer.
Good luck, morpheus, and I hope I have helped. If you need any more help, feel free to post. :nod:

[morpheus_q8]

thank you sweety so much
actually i need help in some novels. can you help me in that?

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17895

[madds94]

Since you did such a great job as the poem that morpheus posted, I was wondering if you could compare these two Grace Nichols poems as well: "Tropical Death" vs. "Wherever I Hang," just to see how one supports the other and how they relate. Thanks!!

[mono]

I admit that I do not feel too terribly familiar with the poet, and my previous posts, regarding Nichols' poetry, seemed more literary-related than poet-related in terms of analysis, but I will see what I can do. Thanks for the opportunity, and welcome to the forum.

Since you did such a great job as the poem that morpheus posted, I was wondering if you could compare these two Grace Nichols poems as well: "Tropical Death" vs. "Wherever I Hang," just to see how one supports the other and how they relate. Thanks!!
Due to copywright laws, I highly doubt I can post the whole poem of "Wherever I Hang" on this forum, but I found a copy of it here (http://www.jimnshelle.net/purple/archives/2005/04/wherever_i_hang.html); in referencing "Tropical Death," one can view it from a few posts previous to this one.
Upon a first read, they both certainly carry themes of death, longing, internal locuses of control, and an acute knowledge of "where the home and heart is," so to speak. Somehow, I would guess "Wherever I Hang" as much more autobiographical than "Tropical Death," seeing that Nichols herself came from Guyana, then traveled to England in the 1970's, a time when she composed the majority of her work, upon a bit of research; bluntly referring to England and Lord Nelson "up high" (Trafalgar Square), would further prove this. "Tropical Death," in my opinion, sounds much more like a dedication-related poem - whether to an actual or theoretical person, I feel unsure.
How the two poems tie together seems difficult to say, judging by the stubborn, forthright, determined sounds of "Tropical Death," and the conforming, integrating, compromising mood of "Wherever I Hang;" other than the dialects of their languages, the informal and casual tones, and very specific uses of descriptions (mostly visual), I would call these two poems mostly opposites. "Tropical Death" preaches so much of want, want, want, yet simultaneously implies no absence of the objects desired, primarily because its setting takes place pre-mortem; it carries a forthcoming tone that speaks to me in saying, in the most unyielding manner, "my funeral will go this way." Though the "fat black woman" cannot prevent her funeral from occurring any other way, she undoubtedly "wants" it this way.
"Wherever I Hang," a much more autobiographical poem, from the opposite stance, has a highly yielding tone; the narrator does not want to leave her land for England, but she does; she misses her native land, but does not return. Instead, she conforms to English life, her "new-world-self," and learns the ways of English life, ending up enjoying it; she retains her pride of coming from such a land, assumed as Guyana, but, in opposition to the "fat black woman" of "Tropical Death," conforms, yields, and carries a greatly more open mind of what seems desirable.

[madds94]

Thank you so much for doing that for me! That was definitely helpful! =)

[cherylp]

The poem begins with commenting what the individual wants, and that is a tropical death, with a Caribbean funeral, rather than a cold, miserable funeral in Europe.
The fat black woman want
a brilliant tropical death
not a cold sojourn
in some North Europe far/forlorn

The attitude to death and funerals is very different in the West Indies to what it is like in Britain. In Britain, funerals are seen as a somber affair where the loss of the individual is evident. It is a time for quiet and respectful mourning. Whereas funerals in the West Indies are seen as a celebration of the individual’s life, and while there is a time during the ceremony for crying, ( the poem mentions bawl or bawling, meaning crying very loudly and elaborately). She wants the ‘bawling’ as opposed to the quiet ‘tear wiping’ of the Europeans.
The wake at a Caribbean funeral is seen as a celebration of the persons death.


The fat black woman want
some bawl
no quiet jerk tear wiping

There is usually a silent procession where the body is taken to the church and displayed (open casket) for each member to go and make their goodbyes. Often there is loud music, dancing and merriment. It is treated as an elaborate party often with caterers brought in much like a wedding.
a polite hearse withdrawal

Just as women often think and plan their wedding day in advance, so here we see the black woman thinking through her funeral day. Caribbean’s in other countries, in this case Britain, have a ‘split existence.’ Half of them belong ‘home’ and the other half of them are in the country of residence. Grace Nichols here highlights another element of this split existence, and that is deciding whether to have a British funeral or a Caribbean one.
The fat black woman want
all her dead rights
This suggests that perhaps in life she hasn’t received all that she is entitled to, and so she is making sure at least she gets all she is entitled to in her death.
some heat/hibiscus at her feet
blue sea dress
to wrap her neat

Some argue that is suggests what she wishes to be buried in, but it also suggests where she wants to be buried, and that is the Caribbean.
‘Hibiscus’ is a tropical plant, a plant originally grown in the ‘heat’. ‘The Blue Dress to wrap her’ suggests she wants to be buried on the Caribbean Island which she originates from. Islands are surrounded or ‘wrapped around’ with blue tropical waters.

In the heart
of her mother’s sweetbreast
In the shade
of the sun leaf’s cool bless
In the bloom
of her people’s bloodrest

here, there are ideas of Britain being the ‘mother country’ and it can be argued that she rejects this idea. ( Caribbean’s were told they would be welcomed to the mother country after the war, but those who arrived found the reception frosty, in more ways than one) This can be given as support to her rejecting the Mother Country, and going ‘back home’ to be buried next to her biological mother, in her country which is more her ‘mother country’ than the European country is.
She wishes to be buried in the shade. (A cool calm place in a hot country. Shade is considered restful). ‘ In the bloom of her people’s bloodrest.’ In the bosom of her true people - her home, where her blood family, rests. Eg Burial plot for the family.