Future. Any comments most welcome!

[Sunlight]

Like a drop in the ocean,
Our knowledge is but a drop,
Let our ambitions not be frozen,
But behave like a growing crop,
For development of our personality,
Let our understanding increase,
Don’t think this a formality,
Otherwise our growth shall cease,
Hard work and effort is a must
Patience and wisdom too,
Then in the future can we trust,
Otherwise it is something we might just rue.

By Sunlight

[mir]

pretty good, sunlight - keep working!

[Jarndyce]

Do me a personal favor, Sunlight, if you would. Just as an exercise, take this poem, and rewrite it, but cut the rhyme at the end of each line. If you want, just rearrange the line endings and move some of the rhymes into the body instead of at the end of the line. I think that the freedom of doing that might allow you to explore the possibilities of the poem instead of being chained to the rhyme. The rhyme is forcing you to make choices that you don't need to make.

But, as mir said, keep working.

I just posted a poem by Thomas Lux in Riesa's Mother's Day thread, that you might want to look at. The rhyme in that poem is practically invisible.

[Sunlight]

Do me a personal favor, Sunlight, if you would. Just as an exercise, take this poem, and rewrite it, but cut the rhyme at the end of each line. If you want, just rearrange the line endings and move some of the rhymes into the body instead of at the end of the line. I think that the freedom of doing that might allow you to explore the possibilities of the poem instead of being chained to the rhyme. The rhyme is forcing you to make choices that you don't need to make.

But, as mir said, keep working.

I just posted a poem by Thomas Lux in Riesa's Mother's Day thread, that you might want to look at. The rhyme in that poem is practically invisible.


Hello Jarndyce,

Thanks for the comments.
Firstly, if you read my poem carefully and think about the point it is making, you will find that rhyming endings are there for a purpose and not thrown in just for the "rhyme factor". I dont feel I was forced to make these changes, infact they came naturally and I think work beautifully.

The poem is about the develoment of our personalities and how this development directly depends upon our efforts to do good and be good. Otherwise we fail to grow as people(not in the physical sense). In the same way we must all actively seek knowledge for a better understanding of life. I suppose it is a battle between growth and progression as opposed to decay and stagnation. I hope with this information you may rethink your understanding for the application of "rhyme" in this poem.

Sunlight

[Jarndyce]

Hello Jarndyce,

Thanks for the comments.
Firstly, if you read my poem carefully and think about the point it is making, you will find that rhyming endings are there for a purpose and not thrown in just for the "rhyme factor". I dont feel I was forced to make these changes, infact they came naturally and I think work beautifully.

The poem is about the develoment of our personalities and how this development directly depends upon our efforts to do good and be good. Otherwise we fail to grow as people(not in the physical sense). In the same way we must all actively seek knowledge for a better understanding of life. I suppose it is a battle between growth and progression as opposed to decay and stagnation. I hope with this information you may rethink your understanding for the application of "rhyme" in this poem.

Sunlight

Okay. I don't see how the development of our personalities is linked to rhyme pairs like drop/crop, and I wish that the word "rue" was forever banished from modern poetry, but I'll go with it. Only you know whether or not those choices were made to fit a rhyme, or because you thought they were the absolute perfect words to help get your point across and involve the reader in an experiential manner. Only you know whether or not you chose to phrase the lines "Let our ambitions not be frozen,/But behave like a growing crop," in that fashion because you truly thought it was expressing something pertinent in a way that no other arrangement could muster.

[mir]

yeah - sorry, Sunshine, it's a great message, but the rhymes are just a bit predictable. i'd suggest doing what i do when i need an original rhyme and my brain has shut down randomly - go to RhymeZone. it's great. i don't know why it is, but i'm always more attracted to a poem where each line surprises me and makes me think not only with its message but with the way it's phrased.

by the way, don't take comments personally. everyone has a different view of what good poetry is. and poetry is mostly written for the person writing it, so if you like the poem and it gives you the emotion you wanted, there's no reason to change it, unless you're planning on publishing it around the world : )

[Sunlight]

Okay. I don't see how the development of our personalities is linked to rhyme pairs like drop/crop, and I wish that the word "rue" was forever banished from modern poetry, but I'll go with it. Only you know whether or not those choices were made to fit a rhyme, or because you thought they were the absolute perfect words to help get your point across and involve the reader in an experiential manner. Only you know whether or not you chose to phrase the lines "Let our ambitions not be frozen,/But behave like a growing crop," in that fashion because you truly thought it was expressing something pertinent in a way that no other arrangement could muster.

The words I used are not necessarily the absolute perfect words - these are the words I feel were appropriate for this poem, thats all.

The poem is more of a limerick or analogy explaining a deeper meaning, hence the use of for "growing crop". As we all know all crops need a fertile soil to grow strong as well as other environmental conditions. One could argue that our personalities also need a fertile soil and environment in which to prosper, grow and develop. The poem doesnt say what these conditions should be - that is left to the readers imagination.

Ok, the poem does rhyme at every sentence but I believe that is a good thing in this case because it shows balance and equilibrium. It may well be that the same purpose of this poem can be achieved by applying another technique without the use of rhymes. On that note I will give it more thought and see what I can come up with.

Sunlight

[Nightshade]

Well I like it and I can see the coonection in the rhymes Ocean and frozen a drop to feed the crop cease and increase...
am I on the right track here?

[Jarndyce]

You don't need to explain the meaning of the poem, and there's nothing wrong with using structure and equilibrium to help support what you are trying to do. But rhyme and structure need to have invisible purpose. There needs to be an elegance and grace to it. Rhyme is natural in language, it happens spontaneously all the time. So, in writing, rhyme has to seem natural and fluid, as if all the words just came together like swans on a lake.

I'm not sure what more I can say to try to help out, here.

[Sunlight]

Well I like it and I can see the coonection in the rhymes Ocean and frozen a drop to feed the crop cease and increase...
am I on the right track here?

Absolutely on the right track nightshade :nod:

[Sunlight]

You don't need to explain the meaning of the poem, and there's nothing wrong with using structure and equilibrium to help support what you are trying to do. But rhyme and structure need to have invisible purpose. There needs to be an elegance and grace to it. Rhyme is natural in language, it happens spontaneously all the time. So, in writing, rhyme has to seem natural and fluid, as if all the words just came together like swans on a lake.

I'm not sure what more I can say to try to help out, here.

That is your interpretation of how poems should be written and you are entitled to your opinion. I am not sure what more I can say to make you understand so i will leave it here.

[Scheherazade]

I think I agree with Jarndyce that the rhyme in this poem does not serve much purpose. The relationship you point out between 'increase' and 'cease' etc does not run throughout the poem so it fails (if that is what you are aiming at).

I think you have a good base to write an even better poem here, Sunlight. Please don't be hasty and give it some more try. As it is, it sounds like a very general idea expressed in very general terms; it feels a little rushed. I would like to hear what more you have to say about growth and personal development; what you really would like to express on the subject.

[Sunlight]

Scheherazade, thank you for the comments.

Perhaps if i beifely explain each line the poem may mean something to you.

"Like a drop in the ocean" one drop in the vast ocean is so miniscule, yet every drop counts

"Our knowledge is but a drop" likewise, our knowledge is likened to that drop in the ocean. We should never think our cup of knowledge is full

"Let our ambitions not be frozen" Not to seek knowledge is likened to something frozen - it limits our ambitions to progress

"But behave like a growing crop" Instead let our ambitions grow and flourish, much like a growing crop

"For development of our personality" Seeking knowledge helps us to develop our personalities

"Let our understanding increase" self explanatory

"Don’t think this a formality" This will not happen unaided, without the right conditions. Does a crop grow in soil without nutrients and in intense heat? no. These conditions need to be balanced

"Otherwise our growth shall cease" Self explanatory

"Hard work and effort is a must" Pro-Active approach is required

"Patience and wisdom too" The results of our efforts may not be immediate, but we must believe that good actions will lead to good results eventually

"Then in the future can we trust" Because of our patience and steadfastness, we know our goodness will bear fruit, so we do not worry about the future

"Otherwise it is something we might just rue" If we neglect all this goodness then it is something we might regret in the future


I hope this may give you a better understanding of where I was coming from and why the poem was written in this way.

[Jarndyce]

Sunlight, I'm not trying to be harsh or mean here, I'm just trying to help you become a better poet. I have no stake in this, other than I respect the art and the artist, and think that all of us can be poets. But poetry is more than writing rhymes with intent.

That said, I have absolutely no idea why you feel it important to explain the meaning of your poem, or how that somehow equates to the necessity for the rhymes you've chosen. However, you have pretty much completed the exercise I asked of you. Look:

one drop in the vast ocean
is so miniscule, yet every drop counts;
likewise, our knowledge
is that drop in the ocean:
We should never think
our cup of knowledge is full.
Not to seek knowledge
is like something frozen -
it limits our ambitions to progress.
Instead let our ambitions grow
and flourish, like a growing crop.
Seeking knowledge helps us to develop,
our personalities self explanatory.
This will not happen unaided,
without the right conditions.
Does a crop grow in soil
without nutrients
and in intense heat? no.
These conditions
need to be balanced,
self explanatory,
a pro-active approach is required.
The results of our efforts
may not be immediate,
but we must believe
that good actions will lead
to good results eventually
Because of our patience
and steadfastness, we know
our goodness will bear fruit,
so we do not worry about the future
If we neglect all this goodness
then it is something
we might regret in the future.


So, I'm being a bit cheeky here, but I think it illustrates my point. The rhyme you used is completely irrelevant to the meaning, because the rhyme adds nothing, and in fact detracts with it's simplicity. Poetry is such a condensed form of written art, that everything, each word, each line, each decision must work towards the whole. That's why simile and metaphor work so well and are so important, why the use of images instead of abstract generalities are such a core necessity. They can add so much more of an experience than just a simple declarative statement.

Rhyme and meter must be considered as support beams for a poem. If you want to build your poem on them, then they must be strong, solid, and perfectly placed. Otherwise, your work just crumbles around them when they can't hold the weight.

[Sunlight]

Jarndyce,

The beauty of good poems is simplicity. I am not a proffessional poet who spends hours and hours of my time in thinking up of ways of writing the "perfect" poem. You keep on going on about irrelevance of the rhyme in the poem - well it is relevant to me although it may not be to you. So i think that you should perhaps show a bit more respect to other peoples work who may not have as much experience as you do.

[Jarndyce]

Fair enough, Sunlight. My apologies.

[Sunlight]

No need to apologise, you are entitled to your opinion.

[Jay]

I don't think Jarndyce means any disrespect, he's just offering his opinion and trying to make you understand his point of view. Sunlight, you posted your poem here to get criticism, and that's what you're offered. You say the beauty of a good poem is simplicity. Although I do like rhymed poems, I wouldn't agree that rhyming is relevant to a poem's simplicity/profoundness.

*edit*
whoops, didn't notice there's more posts on page 2! Talk about beating a dead horse... :rolleyes:

[Jarndyce]

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