Grimm Brothers

[androo630]

So I watched the Grimm brothers and started to think about the morals of their stories and what they really mean. Then I start to think back to how kids never really want to learn at young ages and just read and listen to fairy tales for their own enjoyment. So I did i bit of research on the Grimm Brothers and found this in their Nursery and Household Tales...

"...we see the basis for the moral precept or for the relevant object lesson that can be derived so readily from these tales; it was never their pupose to instruct, nor were they made up for that reason, but a moral grows out of them, just as good fruit develops from healthy blossoms without help from man."

So if the morals weren't made for children to learn, what were the made for? Just curious...


...but the way, the movie was a disgrace to the Grimm Brothers.

[Evergreenleaf]

It sounds to me as if the Grimm brothers never wrote the stories to have morals in them, but that the morals came from them unbidden. The stories may have been made for children to enjoy, not to teach them, and so the morals weren't really made for anyone; they weren't really made at all.

I didn't see the movie, but why was it a disgrace? Should I not bother to see it?

[androo630]

it was just a very bad potrayal of what the Grimm brothers really meant. but then again, im only one person, and thats only one opinion

[Evergreenleaf]

Well, that's fair. You've got a reason, that's good. You seem to know a lot about the Grimms.

[androo630]

well yea...we've been discussing a lot about the Grimm brothers in class, and it's nice to hear others opinions so my ideas can run around in my head for class discussions

[Evergreenleaf]

Woah! Someone who thinks about class discussions OUTSIDE of class!

:D I'm not alone!

[androo630]

lol...too bad i didnt start doing all of this earlier in my life

[Evergreenleaf]

Well, I don't know that much about the Grimm brothers themselves, so I can't help much with the whole discussion thing. Actually, I don't know if I've read any of their tales unabridged. I'm pretty sure I haven't. I do think about the intentions of authors and how morals get into stories, though, so that's why I first posted.

[androo630]

anyone else?

[PeterL]

"...we see the basis for the moral precept or for the relevant object lesson that can be derived so readily from these tales; it was never their pupose to instruct, nor were they made up for that reason, but a moral grows out of them, just as good fruit develops from healthy blossoms without help from man."

So if the morals weren't made for children to learn, what were the made for? Just curious...


I think that it means that the Grimms did not add the morals, rather than that the morals were not in the stories at all. Some of the stories that they collected were old teaching stories that were intended to teach a moral. Of course, most stories that people tell do contain teachings of some sort, even when they are intended solely for entertainment.

[Charles Darnay]

Grimms' Fairy Tales are based on the coincept of fables - just more subtle.

They were meant have morals, but unlike fables, the morals were not the centre of the story.

I belive that it was intended that children read - or were read - the stoires for entertainment, but in their maturer age, they didn't forget about the stories and understood the morals they taught.

Take the ever popular ( and fantastic movie) Beauty and the Beast. Young kids watch this movie to be entertained, but like in all Disney movies (the classics Disney movies) there is always a valuable moral (it's what on the inside that matters, in this case). Or Alladin (always be yourslef). Young kids learn these morals at a young age, but realize them when they are older - that is the magic of fairy tales.

And I agree, the Brothers Grimm (if that's the moive you're referring to) was not all that great. I love Terry Gilliam and appreciate his absurd directing style - but this move was a bit off.

[androo630]

thanks for the input guys

[androo630]

anyone else that can help?

[Eva Marina]

I'm not sure if there's anything new that I can add, but just that maybe the stories were written in mind for children first and then the idea came up that they were teaching the children moral values. Sometimes people read too much into things, which isn't always a bad thing. In this case, it seems to be a good thing.

I agree that the Brothers Grimm movie wasn't all that great (I was very disappointed when I went to see it in theaters), but I don't think it was made with the actual story of the Brothers Grimm in mind. To those who know of them, the Brothers Grimm were obviously not con men but, if I remember correctly, librarians?

[TodHackett]

Charles Darnton wrote a chapter about the Grimm tales in _The Great Cat Massacre_. It might be interesting to look at. As I recall, it deals with the project of codifying an oral tradition-- or a mass of oral traditions-- into a single, authoritative text. I can't remember how much morality is in there, but given Darnton, I wouldn't be surprised if he discusses it in there somewhere.

[Virgil]

I haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know if this was mentioned before. But weren't the tales collection of German folk tales the the Brothers collected and pieced together? I didn't think they wrote them.

[TodHackett]

Right on, V!

This is what Darnton writes about-- how the Grimm brothers appropriated the tales. So, yes, the Grimm brothers wrote them-- or more precisely wrote them down, and so many mistakenly confuse their project of collection and codification with (sorry about the pun) a fictional project of composition.

Of course, I am of the belief that no author ever really "composes" in a pure sense-- every work is borrowed or stolen, as per the thread on "Writing Tips" in "General Writing"




Writing fiction is really a cross between time travel and detective work. Think back in your own life -- it's a goldmine.
Write using all of your senses. Let the reader smell the place.

See? Just like I said-- find an author you like and steal his/her best stuff <wink>.

Because when you think about it, all writing is theft. Heck, all language is theft-- it wouldn't be language if it weren't! We hear words, or read them, and hey, presto-- they're ours!

So, yeah. That's me, quoting me, quoting DB, quoting me. It's so cool! So referential! So meta-!

[Virgil]

Right on, V!

So, yeah. That's me, quoting me, quoting DB, quoting me. It's so cool! So referential! So meta-!
:lol:

Hi Tod. I haven't had a chance to say hello to you. Nice to have you on lit net. Is Lexington near Louisville. I've been to Loiusville and by Ft. Knox.

[TodHackett]

Lexington--my adopted home for (probably) the next six years or more, is roughly one hour south of Cincinnatti, one hour east of Louisville, three hours west of Charleston, WV, and four hours north of Nashville.

I absolutely love it here, and that's saying a LOT. I have lived in many places in my time, and none of them ever felt right the way Lexington does.

I also love it here on litnet. It's a good place to lick your wounds after dropping $25 on PartyPoker.com. Indeed, my communities, real or imagined, seem to proliferate as the days pass...

Good to know you, V. If you'd like to know more about me, just ask. Also, I recently posted to the Writing area-- take a look if you wish. And if you've posted anything to which you'd especially like to draw my attention, I'm all ears (eyes?).

[Virgil]

Thanks Tod. Nice to have you here. Word of advice, don't gamble. The odds are against you. You play long enough, you will lose.

[Mililalil XXIV]

So I watched the Grimm brothers and started to think about the morals of their stories and what they really mean. Then I start to think back to how kids never really want to learn at young ages and just read and listen to fairy tales for their own enjoyment. So I did i bit of research on the Grimm Brothers and found this in their Nursery and Household Tales...

"...we see the basis for the moral precept or for the relevant object lesson that can be derived so readily from these tales; it was never their pupose to instruct, nor were they made up for that reason, but a moral grows out of them, just as good fruit develops from healthy blossoms without help from man."

So if the morals weren't made for children to learn, what were the made for? Just curious...


...but the way, the movie was a disgrace to the Grimm Brothers.
They collected them, did they not? Since they were not the authors, they remarked that they noticed morals demonstrated in tales they presumed had been memorized and passed down for the sake of entertaining little ones. They seemed to see a Providence in these stories being in forms that would naturally work thoughtfulness into an innate moral instinct in thinking children.