Buying books

[papayahed]

I was at the book store today (surprise surprise). When I'm looking for a book I realized that if it has the Oprah or any other book club sticker or worse yet if the book had been made into a movie and it says so on the cover - it really irritates me. I will search for the book with the normal cover or I won't buy it. Anybody else?

[chmpman]

This brings me to my predicament (sorry I'm so self-absorbed): that I like to shop for books in used bookstores, and conveniently there is one right near my work, but I hate books that are marked in the margins by previous readers. This happens for school books that I purchase used because it's so much cheaper, but have annoying marks and notes in the margin by another reader.

I agree with you papayahed, I prefer a natural cover not burdened by our commercial society's marks of "success".

[Logos]

Oh definitely if it's Oprah telling me that I should read it I will avoid it, or the Book-of-the-Month Club. I usually steer clear of the first shelves of books, they're all the flashy pulpy in-your face best-sellers, fad diet, and pop psychology stuff which I'm not interested in anyway.

[emily655321]

I, like chmpman, am a used-book store shopper. I don't read much new fiction, anyway, and new editions of old books don't thrill me because the old books are so much prettier, not to mention cheaper. Going into a big store like Barnes&Noble, it's hard not to think, "Gee, I could by groceries for a week, or a book. Hmm..." But overall, I'm glad when Oprah endorses books, because then I know which ones not to buy.

[Basil]

But overall, I'm glad when Oprah endorses books, because then I know which ones not to buy.
You mean books like Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy; One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez; East of Eden by John Steinbeck; Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison; Cry, the Beloved Country by Alan Paton; or The Sound and the Fury, As I Lay Dying, and Light in August by William Faulkner?

Her's a list of books (http://www.2think.org/oprah/oprah.shtml) that have been featured in Oprah's book club. I can't vouch for all of them (I haven't even heard of most of them), but it seems like your anti-Oprah stance might cause you to miss out on some good reading.

[emily655321]

Well, not exclusively, silly. :p Although, I don't like Falkner or Steinbeck... But I specifically mean the pop books, the sort my mother reads; things like White Oleander and The Deep End of the Ocean. Ghastly stuff. Every now and then she tricks me into reading one of them, and... well, I've already ranted about The Girl with the Pearl Earring.

[Virgil]

Emily, you're the only one I know that has not liked The Girl with the Pearl Earring. Oprah's selections may not all be perfect, but it has gotten people to read, and I find that a good thing. Just becuase it's [Oprah selecting books] in the realm of pop culture doesn't make it bad. Hey, rock music is in the realm of pop culture, and I don't lecture that people should be listning to Mozart, Beethoven, or Duke Ellington, even though it's higher art.

[RobinHood3000]

Well, Mr. Hoity-Toity :p, Mozart and Beethoven may be higher art, but to be completely honest, they make me drowsy.

I'm a library-discard-shopper kinda guy, and I agree that I don't much like other people's notes in my books. Still, if it's a good enough book, I'll get it anyway for the extra perspective.

[daddysfiddler]

I love used book stores, but what is better is auctions. My dad is an auctioneer and one time I got 65 books for $10. I didn't like them all but hey for that price I'm not complaining.

I like to have notes in my books depending on how many there are. If the previous owner went overboard with a highliter and pen that irritates me. However some notes every now and then is cool because it gives you a different perspective on the text. <><

[Virgil]

Well, Mr. Hoity-Toity :p, Mozart and Beethoven may be higher art, but to be completely honest, they make me drowsy.

I'm a library-discard-shopper kinda guy, and I agree that I don't much like other people's notes in my books. Still, if it's a good enough book, I'll get it anyway for the extra perspective.
Hey, wait a second. Hey all I said was that I don't go around lecturing people on what they should listen. I was just questioning why Emily would like one popular genre while deploring another. Hoity-Toity? Well, thwph to you. :p :p
;)

[papayahed]

Hey, wait a second. Hey all I said was that I don't go around lecturing people on what they should listen. I was just questioning why Emily would like one popular genre while deploring another. Hoity-Toity? Well, thwph to you. :p :p
;)

But isn't that what Oprah does, which is why I don't want her stamp on my books.

[AimusSage]

Oprah is such a wonderful person, she knows exactly what she likes and if anyone else doesn't like that they must be wrong. :nod:

Except when she knows she is wrong, then it becomes an honest little mistake and what's up with her overacting on her show anyway? "Oh how TEEEEEEERRRRRRIBLE for you and now we have a commercial brake. Remember, buy my magazine!!!! ":) So empathic Oprah, especially if it gets her a couple more millions in the bank. :D :lol:

As for books, I usually buy them in a used book store, or on the internet, almost always used. Odd actually, because I like my things to be in perfectly mint condition. Books are the exception of the rule for me. They still have to be readible and in one piece though. Not like a book that I can read in parts.

[NNoah3]

I buy new and used books....
Sometimes I went to the "Mercado sobre ruedas", Is like "Market on Wheels", they are people who sell everything (fruits, vegetables, books, movies, magazines, clothes.... ) in lower prices and they go from place to place (Monday & Tuesday in one place, Wednesday in another). I like to go there because I have found some great books in English ( The Three Musketeers for $20 Pesos like $2.00 dollars, some of Harry Potter, Persuasion, some of the Chronicles of Narnia ) all of them were in good conditions.
I also buy new books by internet or in some stores here.

[simon]

You know the Oprah sticker fad has crossed my path a few times and evertime it has deterred me from buying the book I wanted. For instance One Hundred Years of Solitude, no matter where I looked for this book, I could not find a copy that did not have Oprah's stamp of approval on it. So for an entire year whenever I was in a bookstore I looked for the book, but never bought it due to Oprah. Finally though I realized that despite her contamination of the book, the book was still good and it should not matter who likes the book or what the cover looks like as long as I like the book, think it's good and worth buying. So I finally bought a copy, which I am happy with. Of course a few weeks later I was in a bookstore and saw a copy that had no Oprah sticker on it. Just my luck.

[IrishCanadian]

I live dangerously close to three (yes THREE) used book stores ... no wait! FOUR. Its dangerous. So I can't shop for books anymore if thier not a bit beaten up. I am beginning to feel like full preice for a new book is a rip-off. Its bad.

[simon]

There's a street downtown that is this glorious stretch or used books, shop after shop after shop bowing against the wind into the distance.

(Small headshake and feeble sigh of unrequited linguistic love)

[steve12553]

Books are just like movies or television. You got to dig through the pop culture middle of the road sheep chow to get to the good stuff. I am leery of someone who is not a book critics telling me to read a book. Tell me if it's well written or not. I might believe you but don't tell me it will change my life. If I like it I may spend time and read it but I'll likely put it down when I'm done and look for another one.

[Basil]

I think some of you folks are Oprahphobic. :p :p

When I originally looked at this thread, I thought the question was primarily one of aesthetics: would I buy a book that carried the additional baggage of an Oprah stamp on the front of it. I recently chose not to buy a copy of The Heart is a Lonely Hunter because the Oprah seal on the front was sooo garish, I felt it kind of ruined the cover of the book. Today, back at the bookstore, I saw they had copies with removable stickers, so I bought one. I thought I'd share the difference:

http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/large_images/133/36345133.jpg http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/2558/img07698jz.jpg

I don't think the problem is that it is an Oprah seal. It could say anything, and it would still despoil the cover of that book. Look at it. It's hideous. (The one on the right is a picture I took of my copy which is why the lighting is so wonky)

[IrishCanadian]

I am definitely Oprahphobic! The seal is awful! But as much as i respect Oprah (and I do) the name simply displays too much pop culture for me. I know, I'm probably missing out on some good reads. I haven't even touched a Harry Potter. I guess I need to get over myself when it comes to choosing a read. At any rate I need to continue the list I have before I get on to any Harry Potter or Oprah's books. Alas!

[RobinHood3000]

Aye, non-conformity is a terrible thing when shopping for books.

One wonders, if one demanded the opposite of Oprah's taste in EVERYTHING, would one be a very well-adjusted human being?

[papayahed]

I think some of you folks are Oprahphobic. :p :p

When I originally looked at this thread, I thought the question was primarily one of aesthetics: would I buy a book that carried the additional baggage of an Oprah stamp on the front of it. I recently chose not to buy a copy of The Heart is a Lonely Hunter because the Oprah seal on the front was sooo garish, I felt it kind of ruined the cover of the book. Today, back at the bookstore, I saw they had copies with removable stickers, so I bought one. I thought I'd share the difference:

http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/large_images/133/36345133.jpg http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/2558/img07698jz.jpg

I don't think the problem is that it is an Oprah seal. It could say anything, and it would still despoil the cover of that book. Look at it. It's hideous. (The one on the right is a picture I took of my copy which is why the lighting is so wonky)



Exactly. And what's even worse is when a great old book has a front cover with the garish "Now a Major Motion Picture" with pictures of the movie stars pasted all over. That drives me nuts!!!!! Especially now that I want to read All the Kings Men .

[Scheherazade]

Oh, it is so wonderful to see that as members of this literary forum, we know better than to judge a book by its cover!

:p

[Virgil]

I know. I find this whole line of thinking silly.

[papayahed]

I know. I find this whole line of thinking silly.


Perhaps you can provide a list of topics that you don't find silly and maybe I can pick a subject that you find more suitable.

[RobinHood3000]

It's not the topic he finds silly--it's the belief that another person's perception of a book affects the book's content. Three-quarters of Michael Crichton's novels have been made into movies--does that make him an author unworthy of reading?

[papayahed]

It's not the topic he finds silly--it's the belief that another person's perception of a book affects the book's content. Three-quarters of Michael Crichton's novels have been made into movies--does that make him an author unworthy of reading?

Huh? Perhaps I missed something but that's not what's been said at all.

[Whifflingpin]

OK - I'll admit to being a snob - I don't buy a book, or get it from the library, if a film or programme of it is showing in the cinema or has recently been on television.

I just hate to think that the bookseller or librarian (who really don't care in the slightest, I know that) might think that I was just reading the book because of the publicity.

.

[RobinHood3000]

To papayahed - That was the impression I got when people won't read books that certain other people happen to approve of.

To Whifflingpin - I don't see that as "snobbish" so much as "slavish." To live at the whims and perceptions of humanity is inherently unstable. Human nature, particularly with regards to what is and isn't popular, is unfailingly capricious.

[steve12553]

I am definitely Oprahphobic! The seal is awful! But as much as i respect Oprah (and I do) the name simply displays too much pop culture for me. I know, I'm probably missing out on some good reads. I haven't even touched a Harry Potter. I guess I need to get over myself when it comes to choosing a read. At any rate I need to continue the list I have before I get on to any Harry Potter or Oprah's books. Alas!

My problem is Oprah as a literary critic. I still remember when her TV show was trying to pull in ratings and grab every tacky subject she could find. She was on the road to being Jerry Springer before he was. I'm glad she changed her direction but I suspect she weilds too much power and influence.

[Virgil]

To papayahed - That was the impression I got when people won't read books that certain other people happen to approve of.

To Whifflingpin - I don't see that as "snobbish" so much as "slavish." To live at the whims and perceptions of humanity is inherently unstable. Human nature, particularly with regards to what is and isn't popular, is unfailingly capricious.
Yeah, but Robin, who's got time to read every book and make one's own judgement. We take recommendations all the time to filter out the crap. Oprah is no better or worse than the book section of newspapers.

[Sami]

Virgil, I agree – I take recommendations all the time. It’s quite rare for me to pick a book without hearing something about it beforehand. I don’t tend to read a lot of book reviews - most of the time I choose a book because a friend has suggested it to me. I don’t deliberately avoid books just because they’re on the Oprah list. In fact, a couple of my friends are big fans of Oprah so they sometimes suggest books from her list.

[Whifflingpin]

" I don't see that as "snobbish" so much as "slavish.""

You are quite right, Robin. I said "snobbish" because I like to think of my taste as being superior to that of common humanity. But "slavish" is also correct, because my attitude means that I allow the common humans, whom I affect to despise, to prevent me from reading some books.

.

[RobinHood3000]

Sorry, everybody, if I got priggish or soap-box-y (one wonders if that is a legitimate adjective). I agree that taking recommendations is fine, but one also filters whose judgment to trust. I just think that it seems more fair to read something on the recommendation of someone you trust than to avoid something on the recommendation of someone you don't know.

[Virgil]

I think those who are criticizing the Oprah picks are reacting against a certain feeling of comercialization. But to amplify what I said before, isn't a newspaper's or a magazine's book review section, just as comercial? Don't they have their newspaper's/magazines's interest in mind?

Perhaps we should then discuss how do we know what to read that is contemporary? Based on what? Ok, certain authors have built a reputation. That's one way. But what about other authors? How do we know what to pick up at a book store of recently published books where the author is unkown? I don't have a clue.

[Scheherazade]

I am wondering if those who don't want to buy Oprah recommended books are worried that they would be seen as reading that particular book because she has recommended it, which might mean that they follow Oprah's advice in general... However, I am still not persuaded that this is good enough reason to turn down a good book. I would like to be able to read anything and everything and sometimes because Oprah recommended it. So what? If it piques your interest, why not? Why do we need to justify our choices to others?

I know I am in minority here because (maybe I am a bigger snob than you are, WhifflingPin ;)) I am also against buying books in big numbers and keeping them at home. I don't mean to offend anyone here but to me it is like collecting butterflies! Books are not throphies or some collectors' item to be kept in mint condition to be displayed at our homes. When you are reading it, read it with gusto, without worrying about the spine or the pages (I hope it is clear that I am not advocating book burnings etc here); for what is inside, not outside!

Borrowing from the libraries is my choice of book consumption. It is environment friendly, financially sound, sharing and community, one-for-all-all-for-one. Instead of investing on those books, think of all the things one could do with that money? Sponsor a child, donate the money to your local school or send some to another school in a thirdworld country, or donate the money to your library so that they can buy more books for everyone to enjoy... Possibilities are endless.

I am sorry if anyone is offended by my post and I hope that people know me well enough to realise that it isn't my aim here but just to get it off my chest and share my views, however unpopular they might prove to be.

Thanks for reading!

*gets off her box and disappears in the crowd*

[AimusSage]

I am wondering if those who don't want to buy Oprah recommended books are worried that they would be seen as reading that particular book because she has recommended it, which might mean that they follow Oprah's advice in general... However, I am still not persuaded that this is good enough reason to turn down a good book. I would like to be able to read anything and everything and sometimes because Oprah recommended it. So what? If it piques your interest, why not? Why do we need to justify our choices to others?

I know I am in minority here because (maybe I am a bigger snob than you are, WhifflingPin ;)) I am also against buying books in big numbers and keeping them at home. I don't mean to offend anyone here but to me it is like collecting butterflies! Books are not throphies or some collectors' item to be kept in mint condition to be displayed at our homes. When you are reading it, read it with gusto, without worrying about the spine or the pages (I hope it is clear that I am not advocating book burnings etc here); for what is inside, not outside!

Borrowing from the libraries is my choice of book consumption. It is environment friendly, financially sound, sharing and community, one-for-all-all-for-one. Instead of investing on those books, think of all the things one could do with that money? Sponsor a child, donate the money to your local school or send some to another school in a thirdworld country, or donate the money to your library so that they can buy more books for everyone to enjoy... Possibilities are endless.

I am sorry if anyone is offended by my post and I hope that people know me well enough to realise that it isn't my aim here but just to get it off my chest and share my views, however unpopular they might prove to be.

Thanks for reading!

*gets off her box and disappears in the crowd*

You know I would love to get books at the library, it's just that the local library is 20 kilometers away. :lol:

[Petrarch's Love]

Sher--I partly see your point. I too hate the thought of books as ornaments and the spines on mine are lovingly worn. I also am a huge fan of libraries. It wouldn't be economically feasable for me to buy all the books I read, and I check out probably over a hundred books every quarter for research purposes and personal reading. All the same, don't you think there are many great reasons for owning certain books? There are some books I go back to over and over, not just reference books, which are the tools of my trade, but novels and collections of poetry I love, art books I pour over, histories and the works of philosophers that I really want to be able to have at my fingertips when I want to fact check or when I'm trying to remember a particular passage. It's marvelous having such books in my personal library. So no, I don't buy every book I read, but I still have a substantial collection of books which I refer to on a daily basis. My books are far from being dead butterflies pinned in a collection, which is evidenced by the daily flutter of their very active pages. ;)

All--As for the Oprah question. It's just someone's opinion. If you don't like her taste in books don't listen to her, but don't assume that you should or shouldn't read any book just because she recommended it. I don't even understand that line of thinking.

[Scheherazade]

You know I would love to get books at the library, it's just that the local library is 20 kilometers away. :lol:Hey wait a minute! Is this the 'Best Excuses' thread?? :goof:

Till 5 years ago, I was 15 miles from the nearest library. I used to have fortnightly pilgrimages and borrow as many books I could (sometimes even on other family members' cards! :D).

All the same, don't you think there are many great reasons for owning certain books? There are some books I go back to over and over, not just reference books, which are the tools of my trade, but novels and collections of poetry I love, art books I pour over, histories and the works of philosophers that I really want to be able to have at my fingertips I agree with you on this point; I also have bought books due to similar reasons and still do. There are certain books which I love so much that I would like to keep them because I take notes and like you said I like reading them time and again. My comment was directed at the habitual book buying so much so that people wouldn't have room in their house and keep them in boxes in their attics etc. I really don't see the point of this, I am afraid. I can't help but think they could be useful someone somewhere... Why not set them free at least once they are read? ;)

PS: Love the 'page flutter' metaphor! :)

[AimusSage]

Hey wait a minute! Is this the 'Best Excuses' thread?? :goof:

:rolleyes: Uhmmm, yeah... It is? :angel:


Till 5 years ago, I was 15 miles from the nearest library. I used to have fortnightly pilgrimages and borrow as many books I could (sometimes even on other family members' cards! :D).


I buy all my books, but when I am done reading them, I do something with them that defies the laws of gravity and the universe in general. I bring them back to a used book store. That way they don't have to rely on star trek technobable and quantum singularities to fill their shelves.

I only keep the ones I really like, or those that are given to me as gifts.

[Virgil]

I know I am in minority here because (maybe I am a bigger snob than you are, WhifflingPin ;)) I am also against buying books in big numbers and keeping them at home. I don't mean to offend anyone here but to me it is like collecting butterflies!
Well as one who has a large quantity of books, I am highly offended...No I'm not. Just kidding. :D

I understand your point, but I can't help myself. It's compulsive. When I was young I read about Victorian people with libraries in their homes, I was enchanted. I wanted one too. So I started building a library. Nothing fancy, a few bookshelves and mostly used books from school. Then I got into the work force and could afford whatever books I liked. So I've bought and never dispensed away. I always have a nagging feeling that someday I may need that book. I don't know why. I'm never going back to college. But then I found Lit Net and now I'm constantly searching through my library (a lot in boxes in the basement, not the attic for me) for some discussion that pops up. However, I don't have the space any more. I don't know what I'm going to do. Half the books I buy now I don't even get to read. Some one shoot me please before I buy another. ;)

[Scheherazade]

Some one shoot me please before I buy another. ;)Don't go putting ideas into our little heads now, Virgil! ;)

[papayahed]

Sometimes I buy books, other times I don't. Sometimes I sell them back, sometimes I don't. I don't have a problem with Oprah (she does bug me though) recommending books, although her trend in books isn't necessarily my cup of tea but I'm still not going to buy a book with her stamp on it nor am I going to buy a book that touts the movie version.

[RobinHood3000]

<-----

Be careful to whom you say "Shoot me," Virgil...:p

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb001.gifhttp://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb043.gif

[RobinHood3000]

I'm still not going to buy a book with her stamp on it nor am I going to buy a book that touts the movie version.

WHY?? It makes no sense!

[papayahed]

I never said it makes sense.

I buy generic sandwich bags, but never in a million years would I buy generic garbage bags, they have to be Glad. Makes sense? Nope, that's just the way things are in my world.

[Scheherazade]

WHY?? It makes no sense!Since when we have to make sense all the time?

:D

[RobinHood3000]

:confused: Touché. :confused:

[Petrarch's Love]

Robin--That smiley shooting arrows is priceless. :lol:


Why not set them free at least once they are read?
Sher--I agree wholeheartedly. Some books are so wild they should only be read on a catch and release basis. ;)

[Virgil]

<-----

Be careful to whom you say "Shoot me," Virgil...:p

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb001.gifhttp://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb043.gif
:lol: :lol: You guys are too much!

[Petrarch's Love]

I understand your point, but I can't help myself. It's compulsive. When I was young I read about Victorian people with libraries in their homes, I was enchanted. I wanted one too.
Virgil--I too have always been fascinated by the idea of a real private library. My dream house would have to include a really beautiful library room just filled with books. (As a child I identified deeply with the heroine of Disney's "Beauty and the Beast" when she's shown the big library in the beast's palace). Here are a few pics of libraries I've visited that I wouldn't mind owning, one at the Chateau Chantilly, and the other in Kenwood house, just outside of London:
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/LeonardoD/ChantillyBibliotequeII.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/LeonardoD/KenwoodHouseLibraryII.jpg

[Virgil]

Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has this wish. Those libraries are lovely. However, for me it has turned into a minor nightmare. I've got books everywhere and a wife who's complaining.

[chmpman]

I saw a picture of a homesteading couple in my American history textbook that really struck me. The way they stood so dignified in front of their bookshelf will stay with me for quite awhile.

[RobinHood3000]

Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has this wish. Those libraries are lovely.
I felt the same way when I went on a summer trip to the States and saw the library in the Vanderbilt mansion. Tan increíble...

[daddysfiddler]

I can never give up books that I buy. I loan them to my friends all the time though. I still have all my childhood books because because I always tell myself that I would buy them back for my kids anyways.

I am also fascinated with large libraries, with comfy chairs all over. I used to dream about going and living in a remote area where their's not a lot of people so I would always tell myself that I'm saving my books so that I can open a library. I'm sure it will never happen but it's still nice to think about.

My books are never in mint condition, since most of them have come from auctions and used book stores. <><

[Virgil]

See. It's not so strange.

Daddysfiddler - There's another interesting thread on how we read, I forget the name. It's similar to what you've said.

[IrishCanadian]

I can never give up books that I buy. I loan them to my friends all the time though. I still have all my childhood books because because I always tell myself that I would buy them back for my kids anyways. <><
I really like that attitude. I'v already purchased some of the old books I had as a child for my neices and nephews. Its a great feeling!

[Chava]

Does it seems strange, but i buy most my books in airports (I travel a lot). in fact, my mother and i discovered that we tend to go for the books with red covers... it's funny, because our shelves have whole red sections...
Apart from that i have a very nasty habit of "binging". If i walk into a bookstore (and the cruel world has placed it as the entrance to my stationary, and modeling store) i almost always find something that i want someone else to read, and since i can currently afford it, i tend to buy it... (The store is having a 50% sale on all classics, they have 10,000 books on sale, Fitzgerald, Dickens, Steinbeck, Joyce, Marquez, and so forth...) talk about a candy store... (drool)

[Whifflingpin]

"I've got books everywhere and a wife who's complaining"
Better than no books and a wife who's revolting.

Oh not me - I've got shelves of books, stacks of books, boxes of books, books under the bed and books in the loft - I don't know how, they just follow me home. And I've a wife somewhere, but I can't see her for books.

[beer good]

As I've grown older (if not wiser) I've come to appreciate the value of owning books. I grew up in a home where most of the wallspace in the living room was taken up by bookshelves. There was always something to read, and so I read. I always took it for granted, and it wasn't really until I moved away from home that I realized how many people barely read at all. It's a habit you need to learn and practice. Readers beget readers.

EDIT: Which isn't to say that libraries can't work just as well. Whatever floats your proverbial boat. Personally, I could never get by on just library books... for starters, considering how I treat the books I read, the fines would probably cost me more than if I'd bought the damn things to start with.

[Scheherazade]

Readers beget readers.I agree but buying books is not necessarily a prerequisite for this? Setting a good example, letting children see you reading and sharing the reading experience with them at an early age would do the trick, I believe.

for starters, considering how I treat the books I read, the fines would probably cost me more than if I'd bought the damn things to start with.On that note :D:

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/umedia/20060227/cp.b3ae64806a7907844f27c544a0acbaf4

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/umedia/20060228/cp.737a5d7d35a87416c9aacb2efbf1f8a5