February/Eliot Book: 'The Mill on the Floss'

[Scheherazade]

Please post your thoughts and questions regarding The Mill on the Floss here.

Synopsis (from amazon.com):
Brought up at Dorlcote Mill, Maggie Tulliver worships her brother Tom and is desperate to win the approval of her parents, but her passionate, wayward nature and her fierce intelligence bring her into constant conflict with her family. As she reaches adulthood, the clash between their expectations and her desires is painfully played out as she finds herself torn between her relationships with three very different men: her proud and stubborn brother, a close friend who is also the son of her family's worst enemy, and a charismatic but dangerous suitor. With its poignant portrayal of sibling relationships, The Mill on the Floss is considered George Eliot's most autobiographical novel; it is also one of her most powerful and moving.

Online copy (http://www.online-literature.com/george_eliot/mill_floss/)


Book Club Procedures (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=57103#post57103)

[papayahed]

I was duped, my copy has 600 pages.

[smilingtearz]

Read the book last year as a part of my course... It's just "okay" ...

[emily655321]

Bought it this evening on the way home from work. Only had a paperback at the store, but lucky they had it at all. They didn't have Middlemarch, so I guess I should thank Papaya for her choice. :p

And, yeah, my copy is 545 pages. What gives? :D

[Virgil]

I guess it's time I go down to the basement and find my copy.

[Pensive]

Ah, I have voted without re-reading the novel but I am quite sure that even after re-reading it, I will like it a lot.

I am going to start it today. Yahoo!

[Weeping Willow]

YAY!! i'm pleased to say i managed after some trouble to find a copy .. but it is in hebrew because i am not capabale of reading such a book in a month... unless it is translated to hebrew.. so.... i'll just tell you how the translation is.. :)
yay.. so
*opening page 1* :D

[Virgil]

Oh no. I can't find Mill on the Floss. I found Middlemarch, and it is 800 pages, and big pages with samll type, so doin't feel cheated Papya. But I've looked everywhere for Floss and I may have to go to the library for it or just buy another copy.

[papayahed]

I just started - I know it's done for effect but I really hate when authors write in the dialect (if you will) that their characters speak. It takes me way longer to figure out what they're saying and a lot of the time I have to read it out loud.

(Does that sound whiny???)

[emily655321]

No, I know what you mean, Papaya. It bothers me most when Falkner does it; Eliot seems to be a more mild offender. Still— slang and misuses of words are one thing (well, actually, two things), but spelling out an accent can get annoying. :nod:

[Virgil]

I just started - I know it's done for effect but I really hate when authors write in the dialect (if you will) that their characters speak. It takes me way longer to figure out what they're saying and a lot of the time I have to read it out loud.

(Does that sound whiny???)
Yes, it sounds whiny. You have to allow the writer to write in the language he feels appropriate. I know this doesn't quite follow, but what was someone like Chaucer supposed to do, imagine what english would be like 600 years later?

I couldn't find my copy, so I went to the library and picked one up. It is 600 pages. I'm sorry Papaya, but it's still shorter that Middlemarch.

[papayahed]

Yes, it sounds whiny. You have to allow the writer to write in the language he feels appropriate. I know this doesn't quite follow, but what was someone like Chaucer supposed to do, imagine what english would be like 600 years later?


You're right that doesn't follow what I was saying at all.

[emily655321]

Gerr... I thought I'd be able to read two books at once, especially since my two are so distinctly different; I thought I could read either one depending on my mood, and especially with the lots of sitting time I have at work. But I gave up today, because I'm just too engrossed in my current book (Naked in Baghdad by Anne Garrels, NPR correspondent). I should be done in a couple of days (it's surprisingly slow-going, probably because it's all narration, no dialogue). Then I shall probably welcome the drastic change in atmosphere MOTF has to offer.

[crveniormaric]

Sorry, I tried for a week but I can't read it. I'm really bored. Maybe when I'll be in some slow and calm period of my life - but just maybe...

[Virgil]

Anyone want to discuss the characters? Let's start with the parents. What do people think of Mr and Mrs Tulliver?

[papayahed]

I'm not very far along in the book, Maggie has just cut off here hair. So far the husband seems like a "simple" man who wants better for his son, maybe not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Mrs. Tulliver reminds me of my aunt, very worried about keeping up appearances (or wanting to at least).

[Scheherazade]

Anyone want to discuss the characters? Let's start with the parents. What do people think of Mr and Mrs Tulliver?Since there will be a separate thread for discussion of characters, we will leave it till later, when everyone actually finishes reading the book and form their opinions on the characters. :)

[Anthony Furze]

This is one of the nicest books I ve read. We did it for literature in school (meaning I taught it) and the kids, though Pakistani, were captivated. I find a breath of countryside in it.

[Pensive]

This is one of the nicest books I ve read. We did it for literature in school (meaning I taught it) and the kids, though Pakistani, were captivated. I find a breath of countryside in it.

I agree with you there that Mill on the Floss is one of the best books that ever existed in this world. :D

Did you teach the abridged version or the unabridged one? (I think that unabridged version is not taught at school level)

[papayahed]

I love that maggie cut off her hair.

[Anthony Furze]

I taught the unabridged one... I ve just found it again. You re whetting my appetite so I ll start reading rightaway...

[Pensive]

Good for you. I am also re-reading it.

[Virgil]

Here's a lovely passage, perhaps encapsulating the theme or at least one of the themes:


It was Tom's step, then, that Maggie heard on the stairs, when her
need of love had triumphed over her pride, and she was going down with
her swollen eyes and dishevelled hair to beg for pity. At least her
father would stroke her head and say, "Never mind, my wench." It is a
wonderful subduer, this need of love,--this hunger of the heart,--as
peremptory as that other hunger by which Nature forces us to submit to
the yoke, and change the face of the world.
from Book 1, Chapter 5.

[Scheherazade]

I have been wondering what made me dislike this book so much. I think it is the doom and gloom hanging over it from the very first page; we as readers can feel that these people will go through oh-such-drama-and-tragedy and will not be happy. I don't mean that all books should or do end happily but it seems like in some, the characters never get a break and TMOTF is one of those books in my eyes. I can't help wondering if the authors sometimes throw in things just to make it harder and harder for the characters: if they had survived the flood, would they have struck by a bolt of lightening next?

[Virgil]

I'm only at around page 100, so I'm way behind for the month, but so far I like Maggie. That scene where she cuts her hair was pretty interesting. Why does she do it? It's not clear to me why. Any ideas?

[papayahed]

I'm only at around page 100, so I'm way behind for the month, but so far I like Maggie. That scene where she cuts her hair was pretty interesting. Why does she do it? It's not clear to me why. Any ideas?

There could be many reasons: 1) rebellion against her mother 2) no more having to sit for long periods of time to have it curled - and her mother woan't be so preoccupied about the curls falling out 3) curly hair is a lot like her cousin Lucy and perhaps she doesn't want to be the type of girl that Lucy is.

[Virgil]

There could be many reasons: 1) rebellion against her mother 2) no more having to sit for long periods of time to have it curled - and her mother woan't be so preoccupied about the curls falling out 3) curly hair is a lot like her cousin Lucy and perhaps she doesn't want to be the type of girl that Lucy is.
Oh yeah, that makes sense.

[Scheherazade]

There could be many reasons: 1) rebellion against her mother 2) no more having to sit for long periods of time to have it curled - and her mother woan't be so preoccupied about the curls falling out 3) curly hair is a lot like her cousin Lucy and perhaps she doesn't want to be the type of girl that Lucy is.I agree with Papaya's interpretation too. I think just before this incident, the auntie suggests that they should do something about Maggie's unruly hair (like her character in their eyes?) so she decides to take it into her own hands: She does something about it herself. However, I think the incident is symbolic because it not only shows her non-conformist, independent nature but also her tendency to act upon impulse. (If I remember correctly) When she cuts her hair, her brother makes fun of the way she looks and she immediately regrets it.

Maggie seems to care (or show it more freely) more for her brother than he does for her and she is always trying to please the people she likes.

[Jay]

No time to read TMOTF now but I'll be reading it later for one of my courses so I might, hopefully, have something to say later on :p

[emily655321]

Yay! Almost done. I'm on page 430-something. But, guess what? I like this book. Not at all like Hardy, IMO. Granted, it's long, and it indulges in some flowery language (things like, "Oh, father, dear father!" and "See how the dog-roses have strewed the ground and spread their opal petals over it!"), but the characters and narration are charming enough to persuade even me to overlook that type of stuff. I especially like how the characters' pitfalls are brought on by their own hubris, rather than by the cruel hand of fate that seems to plague most heros in books. These are flawed, frustrating people, and that's just awesome.

Eliot has a way with words that is very beautiful. I mark favorite passages in books with small post-it notes, to transfer to a file I keep on the computer, and TMOTF has almost as many post-it's now as it does pages. :blush:

[Pensive]

Hi emily, I am glad you like TMOTF. You are right, Eliot has a way with words. She is descriptive, but her description is not boring at all, atleast I did not find it boring.

Happy Reading!

[gomboc]

well, mr. tulliver is like maggie, sensitive, in touch with his feelings, connected to nature and all related to it. while mrs tulliver is just like her sisters, the dodson aunts, all she thinks is what people are going to say about them...i must say i don't like her very much...when the tullivers go bancrupt, the aunts come suppossedly to help them, but they do nothing....they don't want to lend the money to their own sister without interest....i mean, what kind of people are they?.... then maggie gives them a piece of her mind... :)... my favourite part....

[emily655321]

Whoo! Finished. I'm looking forward to Dr. Moreau, now—150 pages. I can eat that thing in a day!

The Afterward in my edition says that Eliot wasn't happy with how she portioned out the story, and I agree. The last third was rushed, and Mrs. Tulliver's sudden move to support Maggie by going against Tom seemed hackneyed and out of character. I think I could have done with a nice long paragraph to explain her inner-workings on that one. We don't really get to "see" Bessy in the last third; it's just mentioned from time to time that she's there, in the other room. So, when she makes a decision that is seemingly borne of a great shift in character, I'm left to wonder what went before. How was her mind changed by living with the Deane family, and by losing her husband?

The flood in the last few pages struck me as ridiculous and tacked-on as a cop-out ending, until the writer of the Afterward pointed something out. One of Maggie's first scenes has her explaining this illustration to Mr. Riley:

"It's a dreadful picture, isn't it? But I can't help looking at it. That old woman in the water's a witch; they've put her in to find out whether she's a witch or no, and if she swims she's a witch, and if she's drowned—and killed, you know—she's innocent, and not a witch, but only a poor silly old woman. But what good would it do her then, you know, when she was drowned? Only, I suppose, she'd go to heaven, and God would make it up to her."Honestly, when I read that for the second time, I cried. Maggie had proved her innocence, though it took a witch-hunt (the town gossip) and a water trial to do it. In the end, it seems to me that the flood was the most planned-out, essential plot point in the story, if only Eliot had fleshed out the scene some more... or a lot more. There was foreshadowing of it throughout the book, and plenty of water-symbols to support the theme. Take Maggie floating on the water as Stephen and she "elope" in the boat. Her inclination to stop struggling and let the boat bear her along into sin is a metaphor. She touches Stephen for the first time when she trips upon getting into/out of (can't remember) the rowboat, and he keeps her from falling into the water. Then, they travel in two separate boats when they run away. He also pays longer visits when it rains... okay, so I'm sure I could come up with a less lame-sounding argument if I went back and really searched, but you get where I'm going with this.

It seems to me to follow the moral that innocence takes hard work and sacrifice, while sin takes the easy way out, that the traditional metaphor of sinking-versus-floating is inverted so that sinking represents victory, and floating suggests defeat.

[rachel]

absolutely beautifully put Em. You have great understanding.

[papayahed]

Finally finished!! Sheesh what a sad book.



The Afterward in my edition says that Eliot wasn't happy with how she portioned out the story, and I agree. The last third was rushed, and Mrs. Tulliver's sudden move to support Maggie by going against Tom seemed hackneyed and out of character. I think I could have done with a nice long paragraph to explain her inner-workings on that one. We don't really get to "see" Bessy in the last third; it's just mentioned from time to time that she's there, in the other room. So, when she makes a decision that is seemingly borne of a great shift in character, I'm left to wonder what went before. How was her mind changed by living with the Deane family, and by losing her husband?

It did seem strange to me at first, but then there's the line in the book where Mrs. Tulliver says something to the effect of "I need to be with the child that is in trouble". Although this you're right this doesn't seem like the same woman that was so preoccupied with her linens when her husband went bankrupt.


I"ve always been a big proponent of sad ending - not everything can end happily. But this seemed so cheesy, was Maggies happy ending that Tom was with her and called her "Magsie". Why was she so wrapped up in Tom, who didn't give a crap about her?

[emily655321]

I think it must have been a reflection of Eliot's relationship with her own brother growing up, since much of the book was born of her childhood memories.

I agree about it being cheesy, though. Whenever there's a problem of several unrequited lovers or some such un-fixable problem in a book, I find myself thinking, "Oh dear... someone's going to have to die." It's just such an easy fix in an otherwise impossible situation, and it's unfortunate that it was employed here.

[HIND]

Though I got bored at first, it is an amazing thing . when I read the last chapter I could not help crying for 10 min. That day was sad one because I felt as if I lost dear person :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: I was bereaved

[lamess]

i have it in prose course this semester and i have read the summery and only first chapter in book2 the novel is okay but the style of the writer is a little bit hard isn't it? by the way am not native speaker english is my second language

[quds]

it is ok but causing to me troubles

[KEPB]

I'm teaching English as a foreign language and The Mill on the Floss gives fabulous insight on the roles of women/men during the victorian era.
The struggle Maggie endures, between what is deemed suitable for a girl and what she profoundly desires is captivating.
I teach french pupils and they were quick to point out how Eliot managed to creat a link between the readers and herself, directlt addressing readers.
Some of them are presenting Chapter 7, book 1 at their Baccalauréat oral next week... Can anyone tell me whether her book was written to "promote" feminism or if it sort of happened "by accident" ? I suspect the latter is true but can't find any hard evidence towards it.
Many thanks,
K.

[sofia82]

As i remeber I read the first chapters for the translation course at the university. After that course, as i liked the story, I read the transaltion and it really impressed me, I think I have to read the original one this time, when i find the time