war???

[wolverinewanaBE]

:confused: :confused: ok one thing i don't understand is how the wars are coordinated(not sure thats the right word but go with it) i mean one minute oceania is at war with Eurasia and all of a sudden it is at war with eastasia and ally to eurasia. i guess my question is "how"? how do they go from being ally to one country to being enemy with the same country and ally with the country they were enemies with? :confused: :confused:

[youstolemyname]

Well although you might not notice we do the same thing just we dont go about it so quick. way back when before saddam was in office we gave them weapons
while they where at war with iran. Now look at us today we are at war with them and allies with Iran. I think Orwell has a very good point here that we change allies just not as quickly as Ociana. :thumbs_up good point though

[cr4909]

The aspect of war in '1984' is described in detail when O'Brien reads Goldstein's book. The concept of war has evolved into a continuous struggle whose main objects are to destroy the products of labor and provide a common enemy to unite a suppressed people. It is pretty much a stalemate and unwinnable, as each superpower is too strong to be conquered. However, the Party vigorously believes that they will win and conquer the world.

I suppose when one superpower sees a slight advantage to to other side, then it will attack its ally and form an alliance with its enemy. Remember that all three superpowers are dyspotic states, similar to Oceania. So when you have the mindset of the Party running all three superpowers, you can see why they would constantly change sides and betray their supposed allies.

It reminds me of driving a jamned freeway during rush hour. The lane next to you seems to be crawling slightly faster, so you jump to that lane, but then it stops dead. So you jump to another lane for 2 minutes, and then back to your original one. You never make any progress, but it seems at the moment you make the jump that you are smart to do so.

[kaka]

There was a very obvious example for George Orwell. Until June 1941 the Soviet Union had NOT been looked on favourably by the British government. In fact, it had been seen as an ally (of sorts, anyway) of Germany. Then on 22 June 1941 the Nazis attacked the Soviet Union without warning ...

Official attitudes in Britain changed over night. Churchill, would had quite a reputation for being extremely hostile to the Soviet Union, publicly spoke in encouragement of Stalin - something that was initially greeted with some amusement, and he was teased quite mercilessly about it. Orwell himself was affected when he was ordered by the Ministry of Information to tone down his criticism of the Indian Communists. There was a spectacular example ready to hand.

[Teacher]

MW... when i think about, what if Oceania isn't in war after all. i think Julia has a conversation with winston some where in the book about this. The war is just another way of Big Brother controlling the citizens of oceania lives. They use it as a means to unite the people in fear/hatred to an emeny(especially the proles) therefore if the proles attention and hatred is directed at eastasia or eurasia, then it kind of takes the pressure off Big Brother. big brother uses it to distract the people i think. A good example of this was 9/11. Americans became very patriotic, compared to before the terrorists attacks. i am not saying the government did it as a way to distract us, but it does show how war and hatred can unite many people for a commom cause.

[conservatoire]

I think a lot of this has to do with the following:

"Just now he was very concerned over the war in which Eurasia was once again the enemy, Eurasia he reminded himself had always been the enemy. Any contrary memories were merely mental aberrations."

It is assumed in Orwell's scenario that Eastasia and Eurasia brainwash their citizens as well. Because Mintrue sees to it that there is no contradictory information that Oceania was ever at war with anyone else, no one questions it.

[conservatoire]

As for the actual logistics of moving troops and equipment, we assume Oceania's military is a smooth-running, well-oiled machine that can pick up on a dime and go to whereever it is "needed" to fight simply by the issueance of the order by BB.

[RacinBuddie27]

I also was very confussed about this topic, but after reading all the post i think i know more about it. We are acting just like in the book with the whole Iraq and Iran situation. We don't change as quickly but we are doing the same thing. Thank you for clearing this up.

[gilthas]

The one thing none of you get is the fact that this is based on the cold war. people in the US were unsure of who the real enemy was, and it constantly switched back and forth. because the people are so uninformed and brainwashed, the government is capable of giving the info they want the people to hear, including who is the current enemy.

[ozebaseball]

Based on the cold war, before the cold war happened. Sure. Dont read too far into it people, Orwell wrote the book with inspiration taken from many differnt things/scenarios. There is a reason that Oceania isnt called the USSR, because it is representative, no matter how much you analyze it, it is metaphorical its fiction with a message not a documentary.

[gilthas]

Yeah, there is a reason why Oceania isn't called the USSR, because its based on the US's allies.

think, here is who is in Oceania

Canada
USA
Mexico
Central America
All of South America
England
South Africa
Australia
New Zealand

oh, and oxebaseball, just to let you know, the reason i love this book so much is because it is so realistic, and everything that Orwell uses in it [Thought Police, Big Brother, Big War, three superstates, Ministry of Truth] is based on something. oddly enough, most of them have to do with Socialist Russia.

Thought Police = KGB
Big Brother = Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, Mussolini, all of the totalitarianistic dictators of that time
Ministry of Truth: Pravda [Russian newspaper]
Two Minutes Hate: Anti-Trotsky Propoganda

Orwell wrote this book with the intention of informing people. It's basically a narrative documentary with a moral to it.
Think. The reason that this book scared people so much is because it was a modern nightmare. People in England had just spent the last six years attempting and succeeding in overthrowing probably the most tyranical dictator of his time [Next only to Stalin]. They loathed Totalitarianism, and the fact that Orwell said that in 30 years, England would be the new Socialist Russia, or the New Reich; it scared people out of the their minds.

Does that put it in context for you ozebaseball?