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starrwriter
12-17-2005, 02:13 PM
Get the leeches out. Modern medicine seems headed back to the 18th century when hucksters sold snake oil as a cure-all, bloodletting was standard medical practice and doctors drilled holes in the heads of mentally ill people to let the "evil spirits" out.

Crestor is the most widely prescribed drug to lower cholesterol, which is supposed to be the primary cause of arteriosclerosis (heart attack and stroke), the number one killer of people who die before their time. Crestor is a billion-dollar drug in worldwide sales and, along with other statin drugs, is the main medical treatment today for people at high risk for heart attack or stroke.

But wait. What was that disclaimer I saw in small print in the lower left corner of a TV ad for Crestor? The ad where actor Mandy Potemkin walks down a spiral staircase to simulate the lowering of cholesterol. It's this: "Crestor has not been proven to reduce the chance of heart attack or stroke."

Huh? Am I seeing things? If Crestor hasn't been shown to protect people from arteriosclerosis, then why should they take this expensive drug?

It gets worse when you read the possible side effects of Crestor: crippling muscle and bone damage, kidney failure and CARDIAC ARREST! We have gone through the mirror to LaLa Land when millions of heart patients are taking a drug that can cause heart attacks.

Hello? Anyone home at the Food and Drug Administration? Why was this snake oil approved as "safe and effective"? Do we even have an FDA any longer or have they completely sold out to the pharmaceutical industry?

All this reminds me of a TV special by John Stossel, a born skeptic. A higher than average salt intake supposedly raises bloood pressure, another factor cited as a cause of arteriosclerosis. Stossel badgered one medical expert after another until he finally got them to admit there is absolutely no scientific evidence to support this view. In point of fact, only 1 out of 6 people is adversely affected by high sodium intake. The other 5 out of 6 can eat as much salt as they wish without raising their blood pressure or risk of heart disease.

There is too much "scientism" (phony science) in modern medicine and it is driven by the profit motive rather than an honest if misguided attempt to heal sick people.

I won't die of arteriosclerosis and I'll tell you why. Not a single member of my recent family line has died of a heart attack or stroke. The ones who succumbed to disease rather than accident or very old age died from cancer, tuberculosis, hemorrhage and one or two exotic medical conditions. I don't have the genes for a heart attack or stroke. Those who do can avoid saturated fats and salt in their diet, exercise regularly, keep their weight down, take Crestor or other statin drugs to lower their bad cholesterol -- and the majority will still die of arterioscelorsis before they retire from work. This situation won't change until medical science learns how to remove the genes that predispose people to heart attacks and strokes. That day may be coming, but it's not here yet and it may not happen in your lifetime.

Meanwhile, you can believe that modern medicine is out to improve your health and see where it gets you the next time you get deathly ill. That's what a friend of mine did. At age 60 he suffered a heart attack and his doctor prescribed Lipitor, a statin drug similar to Crestor. Lipitor not only failed to lower my friend's cholesterol level, it caused permanent damage to the nerves and muscles of his legs and put him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.

As an alternative, you could rely on one of two unexplained phenomenon to save your life. The placebo effect involves the patient taking a useless but safe drug after being told it will cure his medical condition. This works in about 60% of cases. Or you could do nothing when you get sick -- no doctor visit, no drugs, just tough it out. In a remarkably similar 60% of cases, the medical condition will improve or disappear with no treatment at all. No one knows exactly why the placebo effect or non-treatment works as often as it does.

Personally, I take the advice I once got from that rarest of rare species, the honest doctor who cares more about people than money. He said: "Stay away from doctors' offices as much as possible. If you think you're actually dying, go to the emergency room of a hospital. A young intern is your best bet to survive."

rachel
12-17-2005, 02:58 PM
I couldn't agree with you more. I am horrified at the things doctors prescribe just because they get all these free samples and money from the drug companies. for instance my little daughter had first mono, then tonsillitus followed by strep. one night she just flipped out and went into cardiac arrest. we rushed her to hospital and she was given digitalis etc. then she had to go to a doctor who prescribed to her an ant depressant to bring her chemicals back in line. I felt nervous about it though so I began my research.by then poor desi was terrified but also terrified to go off t hem. we did get her off t hem though and the side effects of coming of them nearly killed her. then I find out that the governement has quietly taken the drugs off the market because some major side effects were uncontrolled rage and suicide. It has taken t hree years for her to recover. I myself haven't been to a physician for so many years that when I cracked a bone in my ankle they had no file of me. I have been misdiagnosed myself and rushed to hospital dying. once a doctor in emergency was looking at me because my kidneys were infected and i was falling in and out of realilty. He asked for the bottle of pills i had been taking for the problem and freaked out when it was handed to him.He told me you can't have azo and gantricyn together in one formula, it had been banned because it killed people. my physician had inadvertantly given me some that had been left over at his clinic. Since then I try to do things preventatively and research and be informed. I despise that it is all about money and those in the know, in power deem our lives worthless. what if many do die. there will be more suckers to take their place.
thank you for that info. I knew that lipitor was evil. and now this. what a bunch of jerks. and for those famous people that knowingly, and I believe it is, knowingly praise this garbage shame on them. they are despicable. I like John Stossel, he rather reminds me of how you speak Starr

Virgil
12-17-2005, 03:30 PM
While I agree there are non-logical appearences to some things in the medical industry and mediacl recomendations, I'm going to raise a voice of dissent here from you two. I can't speak to the nuances of the cholestorol lowering drugs, but I do find it is universally accepted by doctors that they help. One thing I do know is that life expectancy continually increases. Life expectancy today is around 77; a hundred years ago, before modern medicine, it was probably in the early-mid 50's. What you're reacting to is complexity. It's not always a one to one relationship (take this and your problem will go away). In the cases that confuse people it is that some medicines help certain things but hurt others, and you as an indiviual have certain parts that have better tolerence/resistance/whatever and some parts that go the other way. The complexity obscures the perfect decision. I see this in engineering all the time. On balance, though, the medical community has done a wonderful job. I always bristle when people instinctively blame greed.

Stanislaw
12-17-2005, 03:37 PM
New miracle cure cures eveything...including the commen cold:

Here be a pic of the cure:
http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/images/nuclear-explosion.jpg

side effects: slight irritation to entire body, slight radiation poisening, death...but don't worry, you'll die ailement free!

starrwriter
12-17-2005, 03:49 PM
One thing I do know is that life expectancy continually increases. Life expectancy today is around 77; a hundred years ago, before modern medicine, it was probably in the early-mid 50's.
If you discount deaths from childhood diseases, life expectancy hasn't increased for 3,000 years since the Old Testament three score and ten years. In those days, if an average man lived past childhood, he could reasonably expect to see age 70.

For some time modern medicine has prevented childhood diseases with anti-biotics and vaccines and this raised the average lifespan statistically. But these drugs are beginning not to work due to overuse and other factors such as pathogens building up immunity.

starrwriter
12-17-2005, 03:54 PM
New miracle cure cures eveything...including the commen cold...side effects: slight irritation to entire body, slight radiation poisening, death...but don't worry, you'll die ailement free!
I forgot to mention modern cancer "treatments." Take poison (also called chemotherapy) or expose yourself to toxic doses of radiation (also called radiation therapy) and call me in the morning if you're still alive. Who invented these treatments for cancer -- the Marquis de Sade?

Virgil
12-17-2005, 05:00 PM
If you discount deaths from childhood diseases, life expectancy hasn't increased for 3,000 years since the Old Testament three score and ten years. In those days, if an average man lived past childhood, he could reasonably expect to see age 70.

You've got a point about ancient times, but something happened around the third century that dramatically drove life expectancy down. It actually contributed to the collapse of the Roman Empire. One hundred years ago, it was below sixty for sure.

Jay
12-17-2005, 06:45 PM
I have a headache ...

2000 BC - Eat this root

1000 AD - That root is infected. Say this prayer.

1850 AD - That prayer is superstition. Drink this potion.

1940 AD - That potion is snake oil. Swallow this pill.

1985 AD - That pill is ineffective. Take this antibiotic.

2000 AD - That antibiotic is artificial. Eat this root.

RobinHood3000
12-17-2005, 06:56 PM
FYI, it's Mandy PATINKIN (Inigo Montoya from The Princess Bride).

Few things are proven, starr, and relatively new medicines are one of them. It doesn't mean that they are totally ineffective. Likewise, the side effect of cardiac arrest may not necessarily be due to causality. And I find it interesting that you provide statistics for placebo and non-treatment but none for the actual drug use.

I will agree, however, that the system of modern medicine may make things more complicated than they should be. Personally, I prefer to tough things out whenever I get sick, and will use over-the-counter drugs only for uses such as pain relief in extreme cases. When people are researching treatments for things like ED and "restless legs syndrome," things are getting ridiculous. Just because it's treatable doesn't mean it's a disease.

starrwriter
12-17-2005, 08:14 PM
I have a headache ...

2000 BC - Eat this root

1000 AD - That root is infected. Say this prayer.

1850 AD - That prayer is superstition. Drink this potion.

1940 AD - That potion is snake oil. Swallow this pill.

1985 AD - That pill is ineffective. Take this antibiotic.

2000 AD - That antibiotic is artificial. Eat this root.

Good timeline. But you can't blame people for going back to the original source if pills don't work or have horrible side effects.

I think pharmaceutical science makes the same mistake as many other sciences: reductionism or dividing the whole into parts artificially. In the case of drug development, they find a natural remedy like a root or leaf that works. But they can't make a lot of money selling perishable roots or leaves, so they extract the "active" ingredient and put it in a pill. But the substance doesn't function in isolation in its natural form -- it is modified and buffered by other substances in the plant. Without this interaction, the "active" ingredient doesn't work the same. It may be less effective or have dangerous side effects when used alone.

starrwriter
12-17-2005, 08:26 PM
Few things are proven, starr, and relatively new medicines are one of them. It doesn't mean that they are totally ineffective.
Under its legal responsibility, the FDA is not supposed to approve any drug unless it has been thoroughly tested and proven to be both safe and effective. Just as the FDA is not supposed to allow the sale of food containing E. coli, salmonella, listeria and other dangerous pathogens that have killed people or made them sick all too often in recent decades. The FDA is simply not doing its job of protecting the public and Congress has done almost nothing to improve the situation (in spite of whistle blowers inside the FDA.)

rachel
12-17-2005, 09:50 PM
Virgil,
you make a good point, i am not talking about everyone. But i am talking about those companies that know perfectly well something isn't right and go ahead anyway and push their product to overworked doctors and give them perks, which they need in this day and age of collapsing medicare etc. It really is about money higher up and it hurts a lot of people. Here in Canada there was a terrible scandal about tainted water. the officials knew all along and let many people die. all for the buck. that really bothers me.I am not saying there are not wonder drugs out there and companies I take my hat off to. but on the whole I do not think so.