Amazing Facts about Islaam

[Gurrato Alaien]

Amazing Facts about Islaam

Questions for Non-Muslims

Did God declare/make your religion (Christianity/Judaism) perfect. Does the names of "Christianity" and "Judaism" have divine inspiration. Can you show me a single verse to that effect? NO

BUT GOD DECLARED ISLAAM THE PERFECT RELIGION:
Noble Qur’aan 5:3! … This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâam as your religion…

Did God promise to guard your bible from corruption, can you show me a single verse to this effect? NO

BUT GOD PROMISED AND HAS BEEN PROTECTING NOBLE QURAN:
Noble Quran 15:9! Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)[].

Did God say the religion of God is Christianity/Judaism, can you show me a single verse to this effect? NO
BUT GOD DECLARED THE RELIGION OF GOD (ALLAH) IS ISLAAM:

Noble Quran 3:19! Truly, the religion with Allâh is Islâam. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, then surely, Allâh is Swift in calling to account.

Noble Quran 5:3! … This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâam as your religion…

Does the name(s) "Christian/Jew" have divine inspiration? NO

BUT NAME "MUSLIM" HAS DIVINE INSPIRATION:

Noble Quran 3:64! Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh[]. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are "Muslims."

That is why Islaam is a perfect religion and Christianity/Judaism NOT.

That is why Noble Quraan is a perfect book guarded and protected by God Almighty Himself since its revelation. Contrary to that bible (OT&NT) are corrupted and adulterated.

Islaam has abrogated all religions:

Noble Quran 3:85! "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Al-Qur'an 3:85]

There is no disagreement among the Islamic scholars concerning the abrogation of previous religions like Judaism and Christian and that believing in their validity is a form of kufr.

Muhammad Ibn al-Alâ' told us that Ibn Numayr reported from Mujâlid from Ibn Aamir from Jâbir that Umar Ibn al-Khattâb brought a copy of the Torah to the Prophet (P) and said: "O Apostle of God, this is a copy of the Torah." But [the Prophet] kept silent. Then Umar started reading and the face of the Prophet kept changing. So, Abu Bakr interrupted him violently: "Don't you see the face of the Prophet (P)?" Umar looked at the Prophet's face and said "May God preserve me from His anger and from the anger of his Apostle (P), we accepted God as Lord and Islâm as religion and Muhammad as prophet." Then the Prophet (Pbuh) said: "By the One Who owns Mohammed’s soul, if Moses (Pbuh) appeared to you and you followed him and left me, you would go astray from the right path and if he were alive and reached [the time of] my Prophethood he would have followed me. ""

[Taliesin]

From where do you know that Qu'ran is true?
Because Qu'ran says so?
Or do you think that Qu'ran is true, because islam says so and you know that islam is valid from reading it from the Qu'ran?


Amazing Facts about Islaam

We wouldn't call a thing a fact when all it's evidence comes from a logical error (that's why we have hard time believing Bible or any other holy books too)

We would like to see some evidence to these "facts"

[starrwriter]

I don't like organized religion of any kind, but proselytizing Islam seems rather out of place when Muslims are blowing up men, women and children every day in Iraq, including a high percentage of fellow Muslims.

[miss tenderness]

hey every one
thank u for the postalian
Taliesin, Quran is a holy book that absolutely tells an amazingly scientific facts,that are lately discovered by scientists,and u should know that this book has been sent down to prophet Mohemmad ,who is illeterate and do not write and read,like 1426 years ago and those new discovries can not be told in the Quran without a Divine God who is all-knowing.if u wanna see non muslims scientists addmit the miracles in Quran u can check www.islamtomorrow.com.
starrwriter,plz Islam is a religion that can not be mixed wed politics for u knw politics intermingles wed ppl personal interests .if u say that muslims kill in Iraq then what would u consider what the American Army do there!!!are u trying to tell me that all the torture that happened in Iraqi prisons like Abu Ghreeb for ppl whom are not introduced to the court yet is what christianity tell u to do!!!!thats what u tell us if u say that what muslims do exactly what Islam order them to do.

[Amra]

"I don't like organized religion of any kind, but proselytizing Islam seems rather out of place when Muslims are blowing up men, women and children every day in Iraq, including a high percentage of fellow Muslims."

....and here I thought discussing politics on this forum is not allowed.... :rolleyes:


What do good old christians do in muslim countries today? And what have the do good old Jews done to Palestinians for the last 50 years with the help of the good old Christians from the USA? Hypocrisy all over again....

[Taliesin]

Taliesin, Quran is a holy book that absolutely tells an amazingly scientific facts,that are lately discovered by scientists,and u should know that this book has been sent down to prophet Mohemmad ,who is illeterate and do not write and read,like 1426 years ago and those new discovries can not be told in the Quran without a Divine God who is all-knowing.if u wanna see non muslims scientists addmit the miracles in Quran u can check www.islamtomorrow.com.

Well, perhaps we missed something but we saw no proof on that site. Perhaps you could bring out some quotes from that site?

How do you that Mohammed was illiterate?

[starrwriter]

....and here I thought discussing politics on this forum is not allowed....What do good old christians do in muslim countries today? And what have the do good old Jews done to Palestinians for the last 50 years with the help of the good old Christians from the USA? Hypocrisy all over again....

Okay, let's stick to religion. I agree it's hypocrisy for Christians and Jews to break the 10 Commandments in their treatment of Muslims and Palestinians. But what do you call Muslims who have killed thousands of mainly fellow Muslims in Iraq when the Koran plainly says that killing is wrong? Both sides are hypocrites and that's one reason I don't like organized religion.

[miss tenderness]

prophet Mohammad ,peace and blessings be upon him,was illiterate .does not read and write thats why the Quran which is told by him to his ppl is a miracle why? coz a man like him can not give u information and facta about the earth and stuff like that which are just being discovered by latests scientific
about the site: i will search now for what i wanted u to see an tell u k?

[bhekti]

[QUOTE=miss tenderness]prophet Mohammad ,peace and blessings be upon him,was illiterate ..../QUOTE]

That is quite an amazing argument, considering that Mohammed was a merchant.

[Nightshade]

Ok there is some proof of it cant rember what but I took it at school point was most of the arab mercheants Were illiterate they didnt need to read and write they need to keep count it was the story tellers, the poets and the knowledge keepers ( closest translation that I can think of) that were the literate ones.

Actually I refuse to participate in this disscution except to point out a few things
Guurato (fitting name by the way) how do you know that what ever version of the bible and the tourat exsist today dont say that? How do you know that? and rember
"(there) is no force in religon the truth has been shown from the false..." cant rember what ayah or surrah but it means you cant force people round to your view and what about surrat el kafirron " And to you be your Way and to me be mine"?
And the story behind surrat Absa?
Live and let live its said again and again. If people wish to seek a change they will do it of their own free will its the only way it will work.

And did God ever say anywhere that christians and jews werent going to heaven for there beliefs ? No especially as they are classed among the Belivers.
and on a final note
"Wa Allah Y3ln el-L3inoon"
God damns( to hell) thoses who damn (others).

And above all else its plain bad manners to trangress on a PROMISe not to stir up trouble its like breaking a Salam. And before you strat doubting or if-ing or but-ing I am a Muslim and this is what I belive!

(sorry Logos, scher and admin if this is a bop worthy post but this has begun to annoy me)

Salam
Nightshade
:)

[Gurrato Alaien]

From where do you know that Qu'ran is true?
Because Qu'ran says so?
Or do you think that Qu'ran is true, because islam says so and you know that islam is valid from reading it from the Qu'ran?



We wouldn't call a thing a fact when all it's evidence comes from a logical error (that's why we have hard time believing Bible or any other holy books too)

We would like to see some evidence to these "facts"
Peace to u brother,

In fact, there are different ways to prove that the Qur'an is the word of God, which has always been true and has never been subjected to change or distortion. These proofs can be classified into three types: the way the Qur'an was transmitted throughout the centuries, some challenging verses within the Qur'an itself, and the periodic, modern-day discoveries in the universe that were first mentioned in the Qur'an more than fourteen centuries ago.

Unlike the Bible and Old Testament that have been subject to innumerable translations, doubtful and spurious transmissions, and corruptions at the hands of clerics up till now (with the “gender sensitive” versions coming out these days), the Qur'an was transmitted to us in an unprecedented and unique manner according to rigorous rules of transmission. The Qur'an was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) via the angel Gabriel, and the Prophet subsequently memorized the whole scripture.

Thousands of the Companions of the Prophet learned the Qur'an directly from the Prophet (pbuh). They memorized it and were known in Islamic history as huffaadh (the memorizers and preservers of the Qur'an). Moreover, a number of Companions wrote it down during the lifetime of the Prophet (peace be upon him), and it was compiled in its entirety immediately after his death.

The following generation of Muslims learned the Qur’an directly from the Companions. Thus the chain of teaching and learning through direct contact continued systematically, methodically, and meticulously until the present age.

Additionally, several of the Companions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) were appointed as scribes to record the words of the revelation directly from the Prophet himself on parchment, leather, or whatever else was available. The most famous of these scribes was Zayd ibn Thabit, who also memorized the entire Qur’an, and he formed with the others a community of huffaadh that can be compared to academic societies of our present time.

We know the Qur’an was recorded in totality during the lifetime of the Prophet (pbuh) and the different surahs (chapters) personally arranged by him. Many copies of the text were used for study and teaching, even in Mecca before the Hijrah, the migration to Medina.

The entire Qur’an was written down during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad, and trusting the fact that many scholars knew it by heart, it was not collected in one volume. It was personally arranged by him, and the Muslims memorized it in the same order. The companion Uthman reported that whenever a new verse was revealed, the Prophet would immediately call a scribe to record it. He would instruct the person to put the specific verse or verses in a particular chapter.

Furthermore, every year during the month of Ramadan, the Prophet would recite the whole Qur’an from beginning to end in its present-day arrangement, and everyday people could hear it from his own lips in the mosque. Its sequence is no mystery. Many of the Companions not only memorized it completely, they also wrote it down and even added commentary (tafseer) on their own personal copies. When the Prophet passed away, the whole Qur’an was already written down, but it was not yet compiled in book form.

During the rule of the first Caliph Abu Bakr, there was a rebellion among some distant Arab tribes that resulted in a series of fierce battles. In one particular battle, a number Companions who had memorized the Qur’an were killed. The Companion Omar worried that the knowledge of the Qur’an was in danger, thus he convinced Abu Bakr that the Qur’an should be compiled into book form as a means of preserving it once and for all.

Zayd bin Thabit was entrusted with this important task. Zayd followed strict methods in his compilation and had dozens of other huffaadh recheck his work to ensure its accuracy. Abu Bakr, who had also committed the entire Qur’an to memory, approved of the final product. After Abu Bakr passed away, the copy was passed to the Caliph ‘Omar, and then Uthman.

However as the Muslim world expanded into lands where the people spoke Arabic as a second language, the new Muslims had a difficult time learning the correct pronunciation of the text. The Caliph Uthman consulted other Companions, and they agreed that official copies of the Qur’an should be inscribed using only the pronunciation of the Quraysh tribe, the Arabic dialect that the Prophet spoke.

Zayd bin Thabit was again given this assignment, and three other huffaadh were assigned to help him in the task. Together, the four scribes borrowed the original, complete copy of the Qur’an, duplicated it manually many times over, and then distributed them to all of the major Muslim cities within the empire. Two of these copies still exist today: one is in Istanbul and the other in Tashkent.

One must keep in mind that in traditional learning in the Arab world, transmission was based upon an oral tradition as well as a written one; the Arabs (and later all Muslims) excelled in accurately reporting scripture, poetry, aphorisms, etc. through the generations without change. Similarly, the chain of huffaadh was never broken, and thus the Qur'an today has reached us in two forms: the memorized version transmitted through the scholarly chain, and the written version based upon the Companions’ initial recording.

If the Qur’an had been changed, there would be huge discrepancies between these two today, as the Qur’an has reached isolated (and sometimes illiterate) communities through the memorized form of transmission without the written form to correct it. No such discrepancies have ever been recorded or reported. In other words, isolated village A in African Mali and isolated village B in Afghanistan will both produce contemporary huffaadh reciting the same words of the Qur’an, though they did not learn from a similar printing of the scripture nor has there ever been a concerted international effort to rectify would-be discrepancies.

Allah has said in the Qur’an that He alone will protect His book, and indeed He has kept His promise. The Qur’an that we read today contains the same exact words that were revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) over 1400 years ago. This is quite a miracle, especially when you consider that no other group of people can say that their book has not been subject to change by the time it reached the present generation.

Only the Qur’an has survived through the centuries unchanged, and the language in which it was revealed, classical Arabic, still enjoys practical usage around the world. While classic English of the 14th century can be understand by very few native English speakers, the Qur’an can be understood by the vast majority of Arabic-speaking Muslims. When compared to other scriptures, the Qur’an is unique in these two respects.

Furthermore, from the prolific arts that have accompanied Qur’anic learning and transmission, we can learn of the auspiciousness and honor with which the Muslims have traditionally held the Qur’an. The visual arts of calligraphy and binding, and the vocal art of recitation represent examples of such arts, and from them we can see that veracity of transmission would be understood as a fundamental aspect of Qur’anic reverence.

As regards the proofs within the Qur'an itself, they can be found in the following Qur’anic challenges:

Surah 4, verse 82:
*{Do they not then meditate on the Qur’an? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy.}*


Surah 17, verse 88:
*{Say: If men and jinn should combine together to bring the like of this Quran, they could not bring the like of it, though some of them were aiders of others.}*


And Surah 2, verse 23:
*{And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.}*


Peace

[greenburke]

Do you know you have eternal life, that you are going to heaven.
According to the Qur’an how do you get to heaven?
.
.

[Gurrato Alaien]

Do you know you have eternal life, that you are going to heaven.
According to the Qur’an how do you get to heaven?
.
.

1) to be Muslim testimony of faith, testify that ‘La ilaha illa Allah, Mohammed Rasool-ullah’, [There is no deity worthy of worship but Allah alone, and Mohammed is Allah’s Messenger.]
How beautiful would it be to hear the word of Truth, Justice, Peace and Freedom coming out of mouths

Indeed, this is the most truthful statement ever revealed by Allah to
mankind. It is the core secret to man’s happiness, salvation, pleasure and final victory

2) do good deeds

[Taliesin]

We are afraid that we still do not understand.

First, the number of people who have learnt some scripture by heart seems irrelevant to the validity of it in our eyes.

Second, it is a logical mistake to prove or define something by already using that what has to be proven or defined.
So the fact that Qu'ran says that it is true doesn't in fact, prove anything (with respect, it is possible to write a scripture of utter nonsense and put in a sentence ethat says: the whole book is absolutely true. We do not mean to say that Qu'ran is nonsense, but that the fact that Qu'ran says it is true doesn't mean anything)

Third, could you bring examples about those modern-day discoveries that the Qu'ran predicted.

[Amra]

"Do you know you have eternal life, that you are going to heaven.
According to the Qur’an how do you get to heaven?"

WE don't know who will go to heaven and who to hell. We get to heaven by Allah's mercy, and we hope for His mercy by following His commandments, and staying away from things that are prohibited, and seeking forgiveness when we transgress those limits.

[Gurrato Alaien]

We are afraid that we still do not understand.

First, the number of people who have learnt some scripture by heart seems irrelevant to the validity of it in our eyes.

Second, it is a logical mistake to prove or define something by already using that what has to be proven or defined.
So the fact that Qu'ran says that it is true doesn't in fact, prove anything (with respect, it is possible to write a scripture of utter nonsense and put in a sentence ethat says: the whole book is absolutely true. We do not mean to say that Qu'ran is nonsense, but that the fact that Qu'ran says it is true doesn't mean anything)

Third, could you bring examples about those modern-day discoveries that the Qu'ran predicted.

Please spend somtime to read this:

PREDICTIONS IN THE QUR'AN
http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p2_01.php

here MIRACLES OF THE QUR'AN:

THE MIRACLES OF THE QUR'AN video

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/film.html

The Great Scientific Miracles and Discoveries in the Noble Quran and Islam.

http://www.imanway.com/en/showthread.php?t=304&highlight=Miracles+Qur%27an


http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_01.php

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1.htm

[Nightshade]

Gurrato those are all very good links and I watched the video and it was very good and covered nearly everything I could say. But the only problem with itis that it is so very long(1hr 6 minutes). Also I think it might irritate people who dont belive in the quran to begin with. And the man was redundant several times which is annoying but the facts he covered were all very specific.
Do you mind though explaining he number thing. Ive never really understood that theory. It seems a bit like grasping straws especially when there are so many good and definete facts out there.

Tal if you really are interestsed in just looking then the video is very good but very long as I said and the uhh first about 10-15 minutes all to do with the creation of the universe is a bit vague and irritating but get past that and it is very good, in the linking of firm scientific fact. but bare in mind you might have to listen to a few "and this is firm proof that the quran is the word of God, etc etc"

:D

[Gurrato Alaien]

Gurrato those are all very good links and I watched the video and it was very good and covered nearly everything I could say. But the only problem with itis that it is so very long(1hr 6 minutes). Also I think it might irritate people who dont belive in the quran to begin with. And the man was redundant several times which is annoying but the facts he covered were all very specific.
Do you mind though explaining he number thing. Ive never really understood that theory. It seems a bit like grasping straws especially when there are so many good and definete facts out there.

Tal if you really are interestsed in just looking then the video is very good but very long as I said and the uhh first about 10-15 minutes all to do with the creation of the universe is a bit vague and irritating but get past that and it is very good, in the linking of firm scientific fact. but bare in mind you might have to listen to a few "and this is firm proof that the quran is the word of God, etc etc"

:D

Peace to you Nightshade

If you means the Numeric Miracle in Quran, here the details:


Numeric Miracle in Quran

http://www.55a.net/firas/english/index.php?page=show_det&id=17&select_page=9

http://www.55a.net/firas/english/index.php?page=show&select_page=9

and these links are long because this is very important issue the Quran miracle nad needs details

Peace

[dark_182_88]

Hello everyone, let me just reply by the following, and I want to say that I apologize in advance if anyone feels offended by what I'm going to say.

How do you people know that Islam and the Qur'an is the right religion and holy book? How do you know that the Qur'an isn't corrupted, as you say?

First, as for the bible, the difference is that what is written in the bible spans for about a thousand years if not more, contains so many writings, compiled altogether, from the old testament to the new testament, and is not said to be mounzal (i think that is the right word) - meaning passed down from God to man - but rather is written by many pious and holy men who if you look at what is written you will see that the message is the same, the content is the same, but it is only said in another meaning. The bible was written in aramaic and greek (if im not mistaken), and it has been translated in so many languages, and in all languages it is still the same, but sometimes written in a different way, but the context is the same.

Muhammad, died in 632 (i think), while the Qur'an was first written down on paper (well whatever they wrote on) in the 9th century, almost 200years later. Muhammad, never claimed that his visions and that who spoke to him was the angel Gabriel, but rather claimed so after he had visited the uncle of his wife (well something close to that) who said that it was the angel Gabriel, and after the uncle or relative told that to Muhammad, it was then that Mumahhad started claiming that he was visited by the angel Gabriel. How was he supposed to know whom it was, how did he know that it was an angel even, how did he even know that it was the angel Gabriel?? That is all a hoax in my opinion.
Then, how can the Qur'an not be corrupted, if the man was an illiterate, and was preaching it to others, who them as well were poor and uneducated, who probably didn't memorize it word by word, whom with time after Muhammad died the words would have changed, and specialy that most of whom Muhammad had recited the Qur'an to had died when the Qur'an was first written. Another thing is, that the arabic language, when the Qur'an was first written, didnt have the vowels. And the Qur'an was first written with that, and so it would have been like saying a word but this word could have been read in so many ways and could have held so many different meanings. It was like the word, when written, could not be read as it is when spoken. That is when, later, they borrowed the aramaic language, which helped shape more the arabic language, in which they could clearly write what they wanted to write.

All this, and you claim that the Qur'an was not corrupted.

Another thing, is the numerous faults found in the Qur'an related to historical facts. I do not remember them all, but one thing which is utterly wrong, is that Mary, mother of Jesus, in the Qur'an is mistaken by Mary from exodus (which existed about a century or a millenium earlier), and you can see that by looking at the family of Mary in the Qur'an which describes Mary of exodus in the Bible.

As well, you must not forget that Muhammad was raised by a priest. Therefore, why not say that he made up a religion, and that most of what he said/preached derived from the Bible and from the teachings of the priest, but taking a more extremist approach (yes, pardon me my fellow muslim brethen, but more extremist)...By this, you can take the alcohol example, which in the Bible and after Jesus we should not drink alcohol heavily - meaning enough to get drunk - as for in islam alcohol is forbidden. You can also take the example of pork, which is forbidden in islam; in christianity and after Jesus and his teachings, the pig is one of the filthiest animals alive, and even in Judaism I think pork was forbidden since it was considered filthy.

Another thing, is the god Allah. If one looks at the pagan gods of the time, one would discover that there was a pagan god called allah back then. One only has to ask how come both Muhammad's father and uncle (i think both) had the name allah in their names; Muhammad's uncle's name was Abdullah - meaning the slave of Allah (Im almost sure it was his uncle, i know one of his relatives). And if you search about Allah, you will find that it might have been one of the Sumer gods, it might have derived from the God Baal, and/or it might have came from India and the indian gods worshiped at the time.

As for those who talk about the miracles, well most are really primitive observations that can be made by any human, and/or hold ambiguous meanings which could be translated into such that proves this or that. It's like when Nostradamus predicted that 2 birds will go into 2 trees (something like that), and people said he's talking about the twin towers. And hey, just go to Leonardo Da Vinci, and look at all the inventions that he made, from several flying machines (which have been proven to fly), to numerous other inventions that have just been written on paper and not even experimented (almost all have been shown to be succesfull)...and i mean just go lookin at visionaries and such, Jules Vernes for example, and Nostradamus and Da Vinci and look at their works, you will see that for their times what they've done is miraculous, but does that mean that they're prophets and that all that comes from the grace of Allah loll!!

I think this is more than enough for one to question Islam and the Qur'an. Isn't it?

[LadyOfTheSmilie]

As well, you must not forget that Muhammad was raised by a priest.
Another thing, is the god Allah. If one looks at the pagan gods of the time, one would discover that there was a pagan god called allah back then. One only has to ask how come both Muhammad's father and uncle (i think both) had the name allah in their names; Muhammad's uncle's name was Abdullah - meaning the slave of Allah (Im almost sure it was his uncle, i know one of his relatives). And if you search about Allah, you will find that it might have been one of the Sumer gods, it might have derived from the God Baal, and/or it might have came from India and the indian gods worshiped at the time.


First off he wasnt raised by a priest he was raised for the first (10 years of his life anyway ) by a bedowin sheperd and his wife who was Mohammeds wet nurse. He did meet a Priest though on record that is as a teen when they were travlling with the merchant convoy. And the story goes the Coptic priest recognised the signs of him being "special" and warned Abi Tallib (his uncle) to keep Mohammed away from The jewish priests and other coptic priests as they'd either corrupt him or attempt to kill him.
Then his Grandfather took over than eventually his Uncle did.
Allah Actually Means God its not who god is or which god its basically just a word meaning God. or more coorectlly THE GOD Al being the and puctauation removes the I from Ilah .
The uncle was Abi talib and The grand father was Abdilmutilb Abd meaning slave of -- this is because he was very dak and when his grandfather (mutilib) brought him to mecca and the Quraishi first saw him they presumed he was a new slave.

As for when the quarn was written it was 2-3 years after Mummed died its the Hadeeth that were compiled over 200 years later in Iraq and which are know to have more than a few errors and cooruptions in them. Well there are people who refuse to belive that but they tend to forget ( I think at least) that the hadeeth and suunah are what the prophet said and did not what the quarn said.

[Nightshade]

ANd another thing. IN the quaran surrat Noah I belive but good be wrong it could be surrat El Djin. Anyway in it the story of the old Gods is told and how they came to be worshipped etc. The story is originnallyafter the death of Abraham and Ismail (nd Issac I suppose but he was in another part of the world.) The people of Mecca worsiphed God ( as in the one and only) but they were left alone so long they began to forget so they built statues of the Good and the Holy to remind them of the right way and God. Then ( this story is spanning generatons and centuries you understand) they bgan to think the statues repreented minor deities that could hep them recive favour from God then they began praying to them and sacrificing to them to recive favour or good will.
Its actually a common misconseption that the idolters ever actually belived the Statues were Gods evidence appears to show that they just had them as angels or minor gods whoo would help them recive favour of THE GOD.
so As LadyO said its quite possible that the name or word Allah preexsisted Islam.

The thing with the bible translations the things I know all relate to the use of Father, Son and Lord. What I hav heard and read and I will say this as I am neither a christian or have knowledge of Hebrew or aramic or Greek I am really only retelling what I heard. In the language the Bible was originally written The words Lord and father are the same as are Servant and Son so when I think it was the Romans translated it they changed the context ofcertan words thus causing christ to be the son of the father God rather than Christ the servant of the Lord God.
Whether that is true or not is besides the point of my argument which is getting more and more confused.
Of course the Quaran is minipulated and has been for centuries can you name a religon that has not beeen misrepresented or manipukllaed by someone or other? Religon has got to be the best excuse EVER. But the thing with the quarn is it still exsists in its original form and Only one verion exsist in one part Which everybody even the muslims who arge the validity of Mohmaed agree it its whole and complete version no one has of yet ( to my klnowledge ) started chopping bits out because they dont agree with it. Wait no I lie there was that guy in america who thought he was a new mohmed and the devil was white blond and blue eyed. ( sorry if i offend anyone I justcant rember his name) his son went to mecca anbd converted to the oldfashioned Islam.

[dark_182_88]

Then his Grandfather took over than eventually his Uncle did.
Allah Actually Means God its not who god is or which god its basically just a word meaning God. or more coorectlly THE GOD Al being the and puctauation removes the I from Ilah .
The uncle was Abi talib and The grand father was Abdilmutilb Abd meaning slave of -- this is because he was very dak and when his grandfather (mutilib) brought him to mecca and the Quraishi first saw him they presumed he was a new slave.

Allah means "The God". Ilah means "a god". True. But Rabb also means "a god", and Al-Rab also means "The God". And Allah existed before Islam started and before Muhammad yes.


As for when the quarn was written it was 2-3 years after Mummed died its the Hadeeth that were compiled over 200 years later in Iraq and which are know to have more than a few errors and cooruptions in them. Well there are people who refuse to belive that but they tend to forget ( I think at least) that the hadeeth and suunah are what the prophet said and did not what the quarn said.

Actualy the oldest version known of the Qur'an is said to be in Bahrain, as well as in Turkey. The first Qur'an ever compiled is supposed to have a blood stain on it if im not mistaken, and the Qur'an known to be the first and oldest exists in Turkey and Bahrain, each having a blood stain on them, and people do not know for sure which one is the right one.

As for what your saying, that the hadeeth was written 2-3yrs later. Well, I'm not totaly sure about what your saying, but one thing I know is that. Go back to what I wrote above, and read this part again :
Another thing is, that the arabic language, when the Qur'an was first written, didnt have the vowels. And the Qur'an was first written with that, and so it would have been like saying a word but this word could have been read in so many ways and could have held so many different meanings. It was like the word, when written, could not be read as it is when spoken. That is when, later, they borrowed the aramaic language, which helped shape more the arabic language, in which they could clearly write what they wanted to write.

[kramraq]

I respect Muslims the same as Christians. Peace to all of you. Please enlighten me because I might be wrong and I never tried reading the Quoran. Is it true that one aspect of jihad or Holy War is to eliminate human lives for Islamic reasons? If yes, does it mean that individual's conscience is disregarded just to follow a holy writing? Wouldn't it be that your God be much more happier if you respect human life whatever his faith may be?

[Diadem]

Muslims should not be reading the Hadeeth.

[Nightshade]

I respect Muslims the same as Christians. Peace to all of you. Please enlighten me because I might be wrong and I never tried reading the Quoran. Is it true that one aspect of jihad or Holy War is to eliminate human lives for Islamic reasons? If yes, does it mean that individual's conscience is disregarded just to follow a holy writing? Wouldn't it be that your God be much more happier if you respect human life whatever his faith may be?
No it isnt Jihad is if you die to protect your family your home your country and or Your right to practice islam.
At least thats what I know then there is the Ayah that says
Im sure Ive already posted it somewhere

"(there) is no force in religon the truth has been shown from the false..." cant rember what ayah or surrah but it means you cant force people round to your view and what about surrat el kafirron " And to you be your Way and to me be mine"?
and yes personally I belive God would be better pleased if everyone imply respected everyone else whatever the faith maybe.
Dark I am going to look into this more because what you say is very interesting and I will get back to you with my eventual results

[dark_182_88]

Take your time nightshade, milad majid wa sana moubarakah (if you read arabic or understand it nightshade)

[Nightshade]

I was looking for happy christmas in arabic and I couldnt think what it was *sigh* never mind next year
thankyou dark you too

[sporkubus]

Hello all, I am new here and this is my first post, I have been lurking for a little while and decided I needed to reply to this before I posted anything else.

First of all, I recommend to all Muslims and non-Muslims interested in Islam the book "No God but God" by Reza Aslan. It is an excellent, scholarly, insider's look at Islam's history and present, and sheds light on some of the most controversial issues.

The thing about Muhammad being illiterate is not necessarilly true. The verse from the Qur'an that supposedly says this calls him "the Unlettered Prophet" but it can also be read "the Prophet for the Unlettered"; in fact, the latter makes more sense because Muhammad was preaching to the Arab underclass who were not Jewish, while most of the Jews could read and write in at least one language. It is also hard to back up the fact that he was illiterate if he was a merchant, since merchants had to be able to write at this time to keep accounts and sign receipts.

[lover of jesus]

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-h.htm

it is really amazing!!

[sporkubus]

Unfortunately, most of the "scientific miracles" mentioned in this thread are not real.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Science/embryo.html contains an explanation of the Qur'an's account of the formation of the embryo, and that site also discusses other miraculous accounts.

[lover of jesus]

i think the the scientists have the absolute answer
in the following link:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sci_quran.htm

[sporkubus]

In this article: http://www.answering-christianity.com/avijit_roy_quran_science_miracles_rebuttal.htm the web site author says that it doesn't matter if the Qur'an is wrong on some points scientifically, since it is not a scientific book. So if something in the Qur'an is proven to be untrue because of modern science, it should not prevent someone from being Muslim. Therefore, we can say the reverse: if there is a so-called "scientific miracle" in the Qur'an, it could just be a coincidence, and this is no reason to believe in its validity.

Also, this author never addresses the "Answering Islam" web site's points about the credibility of the scientists who made claims about these miracles. I don't really see the point in arguing about this, since there's absolutely no reason to believe Muhammad was illiterate, not even the Qur'an says so. There are so many links between the "science" in the Qur'an and the writings of earlier Greek physicians and astronomers, and these works were so widely available in Muhammad's time and area, that even if he didn't read about them himself, he could have heard about them.

By the way, I have no qualm with Islam and in fact I have several friends who are Muslim (though I suppose they'd be considered "liberal" by most). I just wanted to point out that those who are propagating these "scientific miracles" are not doing any favors for the Qur'an's message or validity.

[lover of jesus]

do you have a narrow explanation for the following miracles

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-b.htm

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-g.htm

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-f.htm

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-d.htm

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-c.htm

and ther are millions of them , just to give your minds a chance in believe in quran not to drow "possible explanation"
***
when quran talks about the orgin of man , it mentions different ansewrs according to his different phases
example:
if some one asks me were do i come from??
i have many diffrent answers :

1- earth
2- saudi arabia
3- baka
4- mecca
5- my house
6- from "dust"
do you think there is contradiction???

[lover of jesus]

this is another miracle!!!

FORMATION OF IRON!
This is no less than a reminder to (all) the worlds. And you shall certainly know the truth of it (all) after a while. (Qur’aan 38:87-88).
Thus, the Qur’aan is a reminder for all of mankind until the Last Hour. It contains information that man discovers in due time. Because this Qur’aan was revealed from Allah’s knowledge and every single verse in it was revealed with Allah’s knowledge, as He Himself said:

Professor Armstrong works at NASA, otherwise known as the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, where he is a well-known scientist there. We met with him and asked a number of questions about Qur’aanic verses dealing with the expertise in Astronomy. We asked him about Iron and how it was formed. He explained how all the elements in the earth were formed. He stated that the scientists have come only recently to discover the relevant facts about that formation process. He said that the energy of the early solar system was not sufficient to produce elemental Iron.

In calculating the energy required to form one atom of iron, it was found to be about four times as much as the energy of the entire solar system. In other words, the entire energy of the earth or the moon or the planet Mars or any other planet is not sufficient to form one new atom of iron, even the energy of the entire solar system is not sufficient for that. That is why Professor Armstrong said that the scientists believe that iron is an extraterrestrial that was sent to earth and not formed therein.

We read to him the Qur’aanic verse saying: And we sent down Iron, in which is Great might, as well as many benefits for mankind (Qur’aan 57-25).

Then we asked him about the sky and whether it had any gaps or rifts in it. He disproved this and replied that what we are talking about is a branch of Astronomy called the "Integrated Cosmos" which we scientists have only come to know recently. For example, if you have a body in outer space which travels a certain distance in any direction and then travel the same distance in a different direction, you will find that the mass weight is the same in all directions. Because this body has its own equilibrium, the pressures from all directions are the same. Without this equilibrium, the whole universe would collapse. I recalled Allah’s verse in the Qur’aan:
Do they not look at the sky above them? How we have made it and adorned it, and there are no flaws in it? (Qur’aan 50:6).
Then we talked to Professor Armstrong about the attempts of scientists to reach the edge of the universe, and we asked him whether they were successful in this. He replied that they are fighting an uphill battle to the edge of the universe, we construct more powerful equipment to observe the universe only to discover that the new stars we see are still within our galaxy and that we have not yet reached the edge of the universe. He is aware of the Qur’aanic verse which says:
And we adorned the lowest heaven with lamps and we made such (lamps) missiles to drive away satans. (Qur’aan 67:5).
Indeed, all these stars are adornments for the lowest heaven. He says that scientists have not reached the end of the universe. Professor Armstrong added that because of this, they are thinking of stationing more telescopes in outer space so that their observations will not be obstructed by dust and other atmospheric impediments. Vision telescopes using light are unable to travel long distances, so we replaced them with radio operated ones enabling us to see further, but we nevertheless are still within the boundaries. I mentioned to him this verse:
So turn thy vision again: Do you see any flaw? Again turn your vision a second time: (your) vision will come back to you dull and discomfited, in a state worn out (Qur’aan 67:3-4).
Each time Professor Armstrong told us some scientific fact, we mentioned to him the relevant verse which he agreed with. Then we said to him: ‘You have seen and discovered for your self the true nature of modern Astronomy by means of modern equipment, rockets, and space ships, developed by man. You have also seen how the same facts were mentioned by the Qur’aan 14 centuries ago, so what is your opinion about these?’

He replied: That is a difficult question which I have been thinking about since our discussions here. I am impressed that how remarkably some of the ancient writings seem to correspond to modern and recent Astronomy

[Nightshade]

Look lover of jesus all this has already been covered and your repeating it in such a way is not exactly helping put islam in a nice good intelligent light.
So please post your UNBIASED opinion or another mirical only if we havent had it before thanks.
:D